Colum Graham,
There’s clearly no reason to apologise. The main reason I come to NM is to engage in reasonable debate and I appreciate your perspective, whether we agree or not.
KBAALW appears to be a critical hagiography, mildly critical and quintessentially hagiographical. Yet it should be welcome as an attempt by the project’s minders to engage in open debate and discourse in an effort to make their case. That they have fallen well short should not deter them from trying again. Better for them and for all concerned to engage in this fashion than to resort to soft/hard coercion.
Haha. I interpreted as him saying that if he wants to get a message out through the media, it shouldn’t be too much of a problem. I think most journalists would be dying to interview him. It probably shouldn’t be a surprise that he gave his first interview to The Myanmar Times, as it was virtually set up by MI.
On the media legislation – something should appear during the next session of parliament, which begins on Thursday. Although it’s not clear what it will look like.
The reform process being driven by past and present members of the Tatmadaw, including the welcome easing of censorship, are a blessing for the people of Myanmar.
But little has changed for international NGOs, either because the government continues to distrust them or because of destructive elements in the public service. INGOs are struggling with might and main to overcome visas issues, MOU issues and import permit issues. Some INGOs say the situation is even worse than it was a year ago. It’s not just INGOs that are frustrated. When employees of the overseas aid agencies of foreign governments apply for visas they are getting the third degree. The Myanmar government needs to issue necessary instructions to resolve this situation because it is a significant impediment to further progress.
Of primary concern here, commentators cast the members of the Khana Nitirat as less then human, called for the involvement of the military, called for surveillance, called for their deaths in a vague sense, and called for murderous vigilante violence against them.
And yet, the vast majority of those commentators would consider themselves to be devout defenders of Buddhism.
One can’t give up hope for these hotheads. Privileged people who find themselves trapped in a corner often resort to bad language. But rarely does it spill over into all-out total violence because rich people simply have too much to lose in a sustained military campaign of mutual destruction. Only desperate poor people do that.
As an example, the average privileged and educated white South African voiced similar sentiments in the 1970s and 1980s at a time when the ANC was threatening white dominance. Yet in the 1992 referendum some 69% of them voted “yes” to reforms that they knew would lead to a voluntary capitulation and handover of power. I was one of them.
Violent expression is often the last desperate gambol of those who feel threatened by looming change. Sometimes that’s all it is..sometimes not. The ‘amart’ sense the writing is on the wall, and this violent expression is just a symptom of it (I pray).
There is still some hope that good sense and calm heads will prevail in Thailand. I expect there will be more popular uprisings similar to May 2010 as frustration grows at the slow pace of change, which will no doubt be brutally doused by the elite and their uniformed henchmen. But I can’t see this spoilt generation of Bangkok’s rich kids resorting to total civil war in a bloody campaign that will result in the destruction of their economy and lifestyles. Like the equally bellicose white South Africans, they simply have too much to lose.
Shade of October 6, 1976. Most people don’t even know what transpired then and the significance of that date. Those who were told or found out later were appalled. Yet history is repeating itself. You cannot learn from history if that page was torn off as if it never existed.
Very worrying. My immediate reaction to this was to imagine a civil war. Yes, it’s a big jump from message board hate to calls over a radio for murder, but with feelings for such extreme actions expressed like that, it momentarily didn’t seem impossible.
Yes, Elizabeth, you do need to read this site more often. Such comments are par for that course. It seems that “human” is a term reserved for persons who are ultra-royalist and ultra-nationalist. A bit like the mid-1970s.
“You said that you will talk to the people through the media.
It is good to see that [the media] has become more transparent. I want it that way. As we have very good communication tools, if I call you and invite you to come and listen to what I want to say, you will come here right away. Right?”
Hm. Is that an avuncular joke, or a passive aggressive, dictatorial, big brother threat?
Good questions posed to him!
And I am surprised giving advice to Thein Sein is published. My apologies to Kyaw for the prior miss communication, but still, this media freedom needs its own legislation!
These comments are evidences that the Thai Royals should not be respected. If they are really good people like they claim they are, if they see their fanatics behaving this way, they must do something to stop these behaviour. Yet they don’t. They acquiesce to it, they do nothing when their fanatics are threatening others, inciting violence etc for the purpose of protecting them. This means they support this kind of behaviour. And for that, they deserve zero respect from me.
Howard Beale #2 and #3. So now senior officials in both Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International are supportive of unelected military supported governments against the democratic wishes of the Thai people. Sunai’s professed admiration for the Thai military suggests total ignorance of modern Thai military history or a fear that the embassy would blab everything to the generals. Both organizations are now discredited. With friends like these, the Thais are gonna struggle to not have a future which is just like the past.
Michelle Anthony, I probably had the same sentiment four years ago as you do now – we don’t feel the pride singing ‘Negaraku’. With all due respect, I have this new perspective to share: whether or not you feel the pride is up to us! No matter how unfair or terrible the state of the country is, it is our country. The pride comes from ourselves, regardless of how good the country is in any aspect of our concern. And it is us and up to us to right the wrongs and take ownership of the issues. Any unfair treatment should not alter the truth: we own the country and it is up to us to do about it.
Thanks to Martin and Nok Khamin for these insights. The first decade after the revolution is still a rather obscure chapter of Lao history.
Talking about statues: Recently, a statue of Vang Pao (sitting amidst Xieng-Khouang-style jars) has been unveiled in Fresno: http://www.ksee24.com/news/local/Hmong—JPA-136285408.html
I believe this letter should be wholeheartedly welcomed. Sure, it may be possible to pick holes in some of the detail, but for me it represents a thoughtful and lucid presentation of the case for reform, standing head and shoulders above much else I have read.
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Burma’s constitution in 2012 and beyond
Colum Graham,
There’s clearly no reason to apologise. The main reason I come to NM is to engage in reasonable debate and I appreciate your perspective, whether we agree or not.
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
[…] Over at New Mandala there is a related post on the way the extremist yellow shirts view Nitirat and the “threat” posed by its […]
Review of A Life’s Work
KBAALW appears to be a critical hagiography, mildly critical and quintessentially hagiographical. Yet it should be welcome as an attempt by the project’s minders to engage in open debate and discourse in an effort to make their case. That they have fallen well short should not deter them from trying again. Better for them and for all concerned to engage in this fashion than to resort to soft/hard coercion.
Progress and politics in Burma
Haha. I interpreted as him saying that if he wants to get a message out through the media, it shouldn’t be too much of a problem. I think most journalists would be dying to interview him. It probably shouldn’t be a surprise that he gave his first interview to The Myanmar Times, as it was virtually set up by MI.
On the media legislation – something should appear during the next session of parliament, which begins on Thursday. Although it’s not clear what it will look like.
Progress and politics in Burma
The reform process being driven by past and present members of the Tatmadaw, including the welcome easing of censorship, are a blessing for the people of Myanmar.
But little has changed for international NGOs, either because the government continues to distrust them or because of destructive elements in the public service. INGOs are struggling with might and main to overcome visas issues, MOU issues and import permit issues. Some INGOs say the situation is even worse than it was a year ago. It’s not just INGOs that are frustrated. When employees of the overseas aid agencies of foreign governments apply for visas they are getting the third degree. The Myanmar government needs to issue necessary instructions to resolve this situation because it is a significant impediment to further progress.
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
Of primary concern here, commentators cast the members of the Khana Nitirat as less then human, called for the involvement of the military, called for surveillance, called for their deaths in a vague sense, and called for murderous vigilante violence against them.
And yet, the vast majority of those commentators would consider themselves to be devout defenders of Buddhism.
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
One can’t give up hope for these hotheads. Privileged people who find themselves trapped in a corner often resort to bad language. But rarely does it spill over into all-out total violence because rich people simply have too much to lose in a sustained military campaign of mutual destruction. Only desperate poor people do that.
As an example, the average privileged and educated white South African voiced similar sentiments in the 1970s and 1980s at a time when the ANC was threatening white dominance. Yet in the 1992 referendum some 69% of them voted “yes” to reforms that they knew would lead to a voluntary capitulation and handover of power. I was one of them.
Violent expression is often the last desperate gambol of those who feel threatened by looming change. Sometimes that’s all it is..sometimes not. The ‘amart’ sense the writing is on the wall, and this violent expression is just a symptom of it (I pray).
There is still some hope that good sense and calm heads will prevail in Thailand. I expect there will be more popular uprisings similar to May 2010 as frustration grows at the slow pace of change, which will no doubt be brutally doused by the elite and their uniformed henchmen. But I can’t see this spoilt generation of Bangkok’s rich kids resorting to total civil war in a bloody campaign that will result in the destruction of their economy and lifestyles. Like the equally bellicose white South Africans, they simply have too much to lose.
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
Shade of October 6, 1976. Most people don’t even know what transpired then and the significance of that date. Those who were told or found out later were appalled. Yet history is repeating itself. You cannot learn from history if that page was torn off as if it never existed.
Burma’s constitution in 2012 and beyond
Thanks Kyaw. The Foreign Policy review is quite good. Yes I know there has been change, my comment was rash. Apologies for the miss communication.
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
Very worrying. My immediate reaction to this was to imagine a civil war. Yes, it’s a big jump from message board hate to calls over a radio for murder, but with feelings for such extreme actions expressed like that, it momentarily didn’t seem impossible.
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
Yes, Elizabeth, you do need to read this site more often. Such comments are par for that course. It seems that “human” is a term reserved for persons who are ultra-royalist and ultra-nationalist. A bit like the mid-1970s.
Progress and politics in Burma
“You said that you will talk to the people through the media.
It is good to see that [the media] has become more transparent. I want it that way. As we have very good communication tools, if I call you and invite you to come and listen to what I want to say, you will come here right away. Right?”
Hm. Is that an avuncular joke, or a passive aggressive, dictatorial, big brother threat?
Good questions posed to him!
And I am surprised giving advice to Thein Sein is published. My apologies to Kyaw for the prior miss communication, but still, this media freedom needs its own legislation!
A catalogue of threats against the Khana Nitirat
These comments are evidences that the Thai Royals should not be respected. If they are really good people like they claim they are, if they see their fanatics behaving this way, they must do something to stop these behaviour. Yet they don’t. They acquiesce to it, they do nothing when their fanatics are threatening others, inciting violence etc for the purpose of protecting them. This means they support this kind of behaviour. And for that, they deserve zero respect from me.
Open letter about lese majeste
Howard Beale #2 and #3. So now senior officials in both Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International are supportive of unelected military supported governments against the democratic wishes of the Thai people. Sunai’s professed admiration for the Thai military suggests total ignorance of modern Thai military history or a fear that the embassy would blab everything to the generals. Both organizations are now discredited. With friends like these, the Thais are gonna struggle to not have a future which is just like the past.
Reviewing King Bhumibol’s life
Or rather:
As long as the Thais in power do not believe in democracy, Thailand will never step out of the dark ages.
Everyday lives of the Malaysian diaspora
Michelle Anthony, I probably had the same sentiment four years ago as you do now – we don’t feel the pride singing ‘Negaraku’. With all due respect, I have this new perspective to share: whether or not you feel the pride is up to us! No matter how unfair or terrible the state of the country is, it is our country. The pride comes from ourselves, regardless of how good the country is in any aspect of our concern. And it is us and up to us to right the wrongs and take ownership of the issues. Any unfair treatment should not alter the truth: we own the country and it is up to us to do about it.
Revolutionary statues reloaded
Thanks to Martin and Nok Khamin for these insights. The first decade after the revolution is still a rather obscure chapter of Lao history.
Talking about statues: Recently, a statue of Vang Pao (sitting amidst Xieng-Khouang-style jars) has been unveiled in Fresno:
http://www.ksee24.com/news/local/Hmong—JPA-136285408.html
Open letter about lese majeste
I believe this letter should be wholeheartedly welcomed. Sure, it may be possible to pick holes in some of the detail, but for me it represents a thoughtful and lucid presentation of the case for reform, standing head and shoulders above much else I have read.
Thailand’s Fearlessness: Free Akong
[…] At New Mandala, Somsak Jeamteerasakul comments on what he says is a new lese majeste charge. PPT reproduces it in full: […]
Reviewing King Bhumibol’s life
CT #15
“As long as the Thais do not believe in democracy, Thailand will never step out of the dark ages.”
Hits the nail on the head really…..