Jailing an old man for 20 years for something he might actually didn’t do is not something to bragging about I guess, that’s why the tone of “salim” seems to be milder this time. What I find most annoying is the royalist word like “its hurt Thai people feeling”. Is your feeling worth so much that you have to retort to such a barbaric mean to quiet the word that you don’t like to hear.
How many people know that there is a Bangladesh consulate in Sittwe in Burma’s Rakhine State? What is it doing there while there is no Burmese consulate in Chittagong? Basically this consulate looks after the interest of their citizens in Rakhine State. Their citizens interestingly hold their passports, but live in Rakhine State. They are legal Bengali foreigners inside Burma’s soil. As other consulates worldwide, it also looks after Bangladesh interest in Burma. When dealing with the socalled people from northern Rakhine State, they are the illegals who sneaked their ways, BECAUSE THEY have no legal residency papers.
But as in other civilized countries, these people will in the long run be granted Burmese citizenship. And these rohingyanists are demanding blanket citizenship to all these illegal people! As I said before, with no ulterior motive behind creating rohingyanism, the matter could have been settled amicably. But with much uproar, it has gone beyond any rhyme or reason. The mess-up is directly linked to the hallucinations of socalled rohingya leaders, trained and used by an Islamic country, from the time before it got independence from Pakistan!
Burma’s people merged many foreigners in to their mainstream way of life and these people will also be mainstreamed in time, but how much logical is any blanket citizenship for every illegal foreigner?
I would not comment on the disgracefulness of this case as this has been very well explained by the above posters and Dr Walker himself. Let me, however, just comment about how surprised I was with the reaction of my Thai friends about this case. Most of my Thai friends are those so called ‘Salims’ ie. those middle class to upper middle class Bangkokians who look down on rural Thais as uneducated peasants, and they are those people who are fanatical to the Monarchy to the extreme and will usually condemn people who are convicted of LM that ‘they should die, they should rot in jail for speaking bad things against the K, they are betrayer of our nation and deserve to be hanged etc. (other ridiculously barbaric and uncivilised remarks; you name it). Thus, I was prepared to see my friends making these embarrassingly barbaric and uncivilised remarks against this poor old man.
To my biggest surprise, I hardly saw those remarks from my friends. Instead, most of them feel sorry for him. I don’t know whether it is just my friends, or other Thais whose friends are Salims can confirm whether their Salim friends have the same reaction my friends have.
Anyway, I second Maratjp’s suggestion that Dr. Walker should also post the photographs of him hugging his grandchildren in Court during the proceedings. Those photographs are truly heartbreaking. To hell with the Thailand’s claim that it is a peaceful Buddhist nation. Thailand is in fact a barbaric, uncivilised nation consisting of bloodthirsty and brainwashed souls who are ready to kill to protect their dictator leaders. I lost counts of how many times I thought, “I used to be proud for being a Thai, but now I wish I could boen elsewhere”. This case has made me feel that way again.
I would bet on an unintended consequence. Whenever the monarchy is involved, Thai officials immediately throw any notion of common sense or justice out the window, and either follow instructions from above to the letter (if they’re fortunate to have them), or do whatever they think might show utmost and unquestioning loyalty (regardless of guilt, innocence, or even long-term public opinion of the monarchy).
Moreover, Thai law enforcement and judicial system tend to arrest and convict the first convenient suspect. The matter of actual guilt is just an unwanted hassle — if it turns out he’s innocent, the authorities then have the problem of finding (and convicting!) another one.
such harsh sentencing undermines Thailand’s standing as a responsible member of the international community, painting it as little more than a North Korea with spas and temples.
We agree we do have our rights and we have the right also to exercise those rights. One of those rights is the freedom of expression. But even if we do have this right, there are times that it is not necessary to express everything.
Pls don’t misunderstanding my message, only one thing that i want to ask Pual handley the author of King never smile that if he can confirm that every situation or evedience in this story is the true story or not? That’s all. I am worried and concern about that because i have seen someone tried to use the story in this book to persue and convince some people in youtube which is in the public. It’s true that everyone have the right to think to believe or not but Not everyone have the enlightingment or knowledge enough to think before believe. Why the people love to see the soap more than the documentary. that’s why i would like to ask him and i don’t know how to contact him. that’s why i tried to search and eventually found this website. Honestly although i am yellow by my skin. but the yellow is not my favorite color even neither the red one . I have friends who consider themself as a yellow or red or whatever they called, I never have any problem with them because i respect in others point of view. I am what i am.I believe in Budha and Karma. I believe in freedom and democracy. I just don’t like to see anybody was used by whoever….Hope you understand me.
And, on the same day, Thailand’s Democrat Party announced the creation of their own “cyber warrior” unit to track down those committing lese majeste and also to legally pressure the government to prosecute each and every case.
No one on this planet is above criticism, not even your king. I read the book and I don’t think your king is “just bad.” Handley is merely discussing an important institution in Thailand and this is a good thing.
Do our mothers and fathers need to be perfect for us to love them?
I know yellow shirts and red shirts and both are wonderful people, yet there is ugliness on both sides and to not see this is to be blind.
If Thais are not able to discuss the role monarchy will play in the context of a democracy respectfully in classrooms and in newspapers then the only thing that will be seen and heard is ugliness.
Handley’s book should be the beginning of an important dialogue among Thais not the source of hatred among the Thai people.
Janchisa, Thailand is a special place historically because of its ability to reform itself, change. Is this not why King Chulalongkorn is so beloved? Can’t change also come from the people?
A detailed account of the Court proceedings (in Thai and English) is here: http://ilaw.or.th/node/1229
The whole episode is an outrageous disgrace. Thailand is indeed a cruel and uncivilised nation state.
I really wonder whether these Thai authorities deliberately want to weaken the monarchy ahead of the looming succession or whether this result is merely an unintended consequence of their actions…
Janchisa: Comments like yours above seem to come every now and again to support the glory of the monarchy and to reject any and all scrutiny. But think about it for a moment. If you are a real person and not one of the stooges paid by MICT or the army, you and your friend have both broken the law and could be subject to decades in jail. Don’t believe me? Look at Joe Gordon rotting in jail for allegedly circulating TKNS. Better bolt your doors! Better still, try to think about the book you claim to have read and be less like a royalist automaton in responding.
[…] prisoners) and Amnesty International, whose Thailand researcher, Ben Zawacki, has previously suggested some support for the use of lese majeste, are finally confronted with a case that they can’t shut their […]
Thanks for the info. I guess when you don’t speak the language the derivation/connotations of a name may not register, but can become an issue as people begin to realise. Even kalar for Indian races is misconstrued as derogatory by those who are called Kalar by the Burmese when it has no negative meaning.
You are right. Meddlesome outsiders do no favours to the ‘Rohingya’ cause.
Hello,Pual M.Handley
I am Thai and i have read your book in Thai translation version from my friend. I would like to ask you that you can guarantee that all story that you wrote if it’s real 100% or just a fiction.
How do you feel if someone who want to have the power more than the royal…using your book to be the weapon to make Thai people hate eachothers….and start to fighting now…because they just read your story and believe that the royal family is just bad.. I would like to ask you to do something to help my country please….I believe that you don’t have attention to destroy our country but now i know that they are using you.
Pls check it out, someone try to use the story in your book to attrack the royal family especially , our king now.
New Light of Myanmar (Nov 17,2011) – Naypyidaw,16 Nov. Mr. Michael E. Thurston, Charge d’ affaires of the US Embassy paid a call on Union-level Internal Peace Making Group leader U Aung Thaung and Deputy Group Leader U Thein Zaw in order to ask about the progress of internal peace talks, at Amara Hotel in Nay Pyi Daw Zone this morning.
Wall Street Journal (Nov 22,2011) – “End to Violence is a U.S. Condition for Lifting Sanctions”. US officials say “before U.S. will ease sanctions, Myanmar must take a number of steps including the release of all political prisoners, increased transparency in dealing with North Korea and an end to violence in ethnic areas. Myanmar has made strides on some of the requirements, officials say, but has made minimal progress on the ethnic issue.”
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Thailand’s latest lese majeste disgrace
Adding to khun CT
Jailing an old man for 20 years for something he might actually didn’t do is not something to bragging about I guess, that’s why the tone of “salim” seems to be milder this time. What I find most annoying is the royalist word like “its hurt Thai people feeling”. Is your feeling worth so much that you have to retort to such a barbaric mean to quiet the word that you don’t like to hear.
BBC under fire on Rohingyas
Hi
How many people know that there is a Bangladesh consulate in Sittwe in Burma’s Rakhine State? What is it doing there while there is no Burmese consulate in Chittagong? Basically this consulate looks after the interest of their citizens in Rakhine State. Their citizens interestingly hold their passports, but live in Rakhine State. They are legal Bengali foreigners inside Burma’s soil. As other consulates worldwide, it also looks after Bangladesh interest in Burma. When dealing with the socalled people from northern Rakhine State, they are the illegals who sneaked their ways, BECAUSE THEY have no legal residency papers.
But as in other civilized countries, these people will in the long run be granted Burmese citizenship. And these rohingyanists are demanding blanket citizenship to all these illegal people! As I said before, with no ulterior motive behind creating rohingyanism, the matter could have been settled amicably. But with much uproar, it has gone beyond any rhyme or reason. The mess-up is directly linked to the hallucinations of socalled rohingya leaders, trained and used by an Islamic country, from the time before it got independence from Pakistan!
Burma’s people merged many foreigners in to their mainstream way of life and these people will also be mainstreamed in time, but how much logical is any blanket citizenship for every illegal foreigner?
Thanks
Thailand’s latest lese majeste disgrace
I have added the photo. AW
Thailand’s latest lese majeste disgrace
I would not comment on the disgracefulness of this case as this has been very well explained by the above posters and Dr Walker himself. Let me, however, just comment about how surprised I was with the reaction of my Thai friends about this case. Most of my Thai friends are those so called ‘Salims’ ie. those middle class to upper middle class Bangkokians who look down on rural Thais as uneducated peasants, and they are those people who are fanatical to the Monarchy to the extreme and will usually condemn people who are convicted of LM that ‘they should die, they should rot in jail for speaking bad things against the K, they are betrayer of our nation and deserve to be hanged etc. (other ridiculously barbaric and uncivilised remarks; you name it). Thus, I was prepared to see my friends making these embarrassingly barbaric and uncivilised remarks against this poor old man.
To my biggest surprise, I hardly saw those remarks from my friends. Instead, most of them feel sorry for him. I don’t know whether it is just my friends, or other Thais whose friends are Salims can confirm whether their Salim friends have the same reaction my friends have.
Anyway, I second Maratjp’s suggestion that Dr. Walker should also post the photographs of him hugging his grandchildren in Court during the proceedings. Those photographs are truly heartbreaking. To hell with the Thailand’s claim that it is a peaceful Buddhist nation. Thailand is in fact a barbaric, uncivilised nation consisting of bloodthirsty and brainwashed souls who are ready to kill to protect their dictator leaders. I lost counts of how many times I thought, “I used to be proud for being a Thai, but now I wish I could boen elsewhere”. This case has made me feel that way again.
Thailand’s latest lese majeste disgrace
@Srithanonchai
I would bet on an unintended consequence. Whenever the monarchy is involved, Thai officials immediately throw any notion of common sense or justice out the window, and either follow instructions from above to the letter (if they’re fortunate to have them), or do whatever they think might show utmost and unquestioning loyalty (regardless of guilt, innocence, or even long-term public opinion of the monarchy).
Moreover, Thai law enforcement and judicial system tend to arrest and convict the first convenient suspect. The matter of actual guilt is just an unwanted hassle — if it turns out he’s innocent, the authorities then have the problem of finding (and convicting!) another one.
Thailand’s latest lese majeste disgrace
Andrew Spooner modestly omits to directly mention
his own report on Mr Amphon’s case where he reminds us in fitting language that:
such harsh sentencing undermines Thailand’s standing as a responsible member of the international community, painting it as little more than a North Korea with spas and temples.
What’s going on with the Thai Printing Act?
We agree we do have our rights and we have the right also to exercise those rights. One of those rights is the freedom of expression. But even if we do have this right, there are times that it is not necessary to express everything.
Interview with Paul Handley
Pls don’t misunderstanding my message, only one thing that i want to ask Pual handley the author of King never smile that if he can confirm that every situation or evedience in this story is the true story or not? That’s all. I am worried and concern about that because i have seen someone tried to use the story in this book to persue and convince some people in youtube which is in the public. It’s true that everyone have the right to think to believe or not but Not everyone have the enlightingment or knowledge enough to think before believe. Why the people love to see the soap more than the documentary. that’s why i would like to ask him and i don’t know how to contact him. that’s why i tried to search and eventually found this website. Honestly although i am yellow by my skin. but the yellow is not my favorite color even neither the red one . I have friends who consider themself as a yellow or red or whatever they called, I never have any problem with them because i respect in others point of view. I am what i am.I believe in Budha and Karma. I believe in freedom and democracy. I just don’t like to see anybody was used by whoever….Hope you understand me.
Thailand’s latest lese majeste disgrace
And, on the same day, Thailand’s Democrat Party announced the creation of their own “cyber warrior” unit to track down those committing lese majeste and also to legally pressure the government to prosecute each and every case.
http://bit.ly/s9tKfi
Interview with Paul Handley
Janchisa,
No one on this planet is above criticism, not even your king. I read the book and I don’t think your king is “just bad.” Handley is merely discussing an important institution in Thailand and this is a good thing.
Do our mothers and fathers need to be perfect for us to love them?
I know yellow shirts and red shirts and both are wonderful people, yet there is ugliness on both sides and to not see this is to be blind.
If Thais are not able to discuss the role monarchy will play in the context of a democracy respectfully in classrooms and in newspapers then the only thing that will be seen and heard is ugliness.
Handley’s book should be the beginning of an important dialogue among Thais not the source of hatred among the Thai people.
Janchisa, Thailand is a special place historically because of its ability to reform itself, change. Is this not why King Chulalongkorn is so beloved? Can’t change also come from the people?
Thailand’s latest lese majeste disgrace
A detailed account of the Court proceedings (in Thai and English) is here:
http://ilaw.or.th/node/1229
The whole episode is an outrageous disgrace. Thailand is indeed a cruel and uncivilised nation state.
Thailand’s latest lese majeste disgrace
I really wonder whether these Thai authorities deliberately want to weaken the monarchy ahead of the looming succession or whether this result is merely an unintended consequence of their actions…
Interview with Paul Handley
Janchisa: Comments like yours above seem to come every now and again to support the glory of the monarchy and to reject any and all scrutiny. But think about it for a moment. If you are a real person and not one of the stooges paid by MICT or the army, you and your friend have both broken the law and could be subject to decades in jail. Don’t believe me? Look at Joe Gordon rotting in jail for allegedly circulating TKNS. Better bolt your doors! Better still, try to think about the book you claim to have read and be less like a royalist automaton in responding.
Thailand’s latest lese majeste disgrace
Andrew, you need to publish that photograph of him with his grandkids. Nothing more needs to be said…
Amnesty’s silence on lese majeste
[…] prisoners) and Amnesty International, whose Thailand researcher, Ben Zawacki, has previously suggested some support for the use of lese majeste, are finally confronted with a case that they can’t shut their […]
Malaysia’s Deputy Prime Minister @ ANU
This being Australia and more importantly the Australian National University, I am quite sure there will be Q&A.
It would be a terrible shame to ANU and Australia, if there were no Q&A with the DPM.
Malaysia’s Deputy Prime Minister @ ANU
Will there also be public questioning?
BBC under fire on Rohingyas
mong pru,
Thanks for the info. I guess when you don’t speak the language the derivation/connotations of a name may not register, but can become an issue as people begin to realise. Even kalar for Indian races is misconstrued as derogatory by those who are called Kalar by the Burmese when it has no negative meaning.
You are right. Meddlesome outsiders do no favours to the ‘Rohingya’ cause.
Interview with Paul Handley
Hello,Pual M.Handley
I am Thai and i have read your book in Thai translation version from my friend. I would like to ask you that you can guarantee that all story that you wrote if it’s real 100% or just a fiction.
How do you feel if someone who want to have the power more than the royal…using your book to be the weapon to make Thai people hate eachothers….and start to fighting now…because they just read your story and believe that the royal family is just bad.. I would like to ask you to do something to help my country please….I believe that you don’t have attention to destroy our country but now i know that they are using you.
Pls check it out, someone try to use the story in your book to attrack the royal family especially , our king now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhhMi-pToKk
Media, politics, Burma
New Light of Myanmar (Nov 17,2011) – Naypyidaw,16 Nov. Mr. Michael E. Thurston, Charge d’ affaires of the US Embassy paid a call on Union-level Internal Peace Making Group leader U Aung Thaung and Deputy Group Leader U Thein Zaw in order to ask about the progress of internal peace talks, at Amara Hotel in Nay Pyi Daw Zone this morning.
Wall Street Journal (Nov 22,2011) – “End to Violence is a U.S. Condition for Lifting Sanctions”. US officials say “before U.S. will ease sanctions, Myanmar must take a number of steps including the release of all political prisoners, increased transparency in dealing with North Korea and an end to violence in ethnic areas. Myanmar has made strides on some of the requirements, officials say, but has made minimal progress on the ethnic issue.”