Regarding Somsak’s observtion that “Surachai Sae Dan of Daeng Sayam .. is facing the real prospect that he could be dying in jail. ” ; does anybody have news about the old printer jailed for forging royal papers years ago?
The late Tongbai Thongpao, who represented the man, wrote a sad cloumn in The Bangkok Post about the sole member of a conspircy to go to jail, all the others having enough money to avoid suffering the same fate. Without a royal pardon it appeared he would die in jail.
To make things a bit clearer, the right wing was represented by Plaek Pibulsonggram (better known as Phibun) and the left wing by Pridi Phanomyong.
Pridi wanted Thailand to adopt a democratic system based on the European system.
Phibun supported fascism and nationalism, and wanted to make himself the king. (Thailand didn’t really have a king between 1935 – 1946. Rama VII abdicated in 1935 and spent the rest of his life in England).
This podcast has presented in a highly commendable manner one of the most important issues/situations in contemporary Thailand, and yet many want to quibble about the meaning of a now defunct flag?
The meaning of the flag(s) are a valid, intriguing and telling part of the study of the development of the Thai nation – I do not doubt this. But I would just like to hear a few more voices address the major and much, much pressing issues discussed.
Thanks again for a truly worthwhile academic podcast.
For those who can read Thai, this is a report on 2 little known cases of LM, one a 60 year-old Singaporean national who was already convicted and sentenced to 10-year imprisonment; he was caught and handed over to police by the UDD guards during one of their rallies in early 2009. Another is the case of a 40 year-old computer programmer who was arrested last month for allegedly posting on fb.
Plus, at the end of the report, there’s a very interesting and worrying list of LM cases – six or seven altogether – that Surachai Sae Dan of Daeng Sayam group is now facing. Given that there no prospect of bail or amnesty, and that these six or seven cases are at different stages, from the police (DSI) to the court, Surachai is facing the real prospect that he could be dying in jail. He’s 68 and even if one case is finished in one court, others cases could be followed in other courts.
I would like to reemphasize that this is a translation by Khun Chris B. That it costs $34 to download the entire piece of propaganda is remarkable. Not the way to get rich!
Don’t forget the fact that maintaining the monarchy is very expensive for the country. For example, these days we are reminded of the cost of Princess Petcharut’s funeral when the Minister of Culture brought up a figure of over 200 million to cover the bier and all the trappings. Why can’t the facilities at any of the major monasteries serve the purpose. Remember, even a celestial princess is mortal like anybody else. Oh, the priciple of sufficiency economy, where art thou?
New Mandala readers following our “Nation, Religion, King” series will want to check out Prachatai‘s article on episode 2. It is available here. Thai language subtitles for that episode are also available. Just click on the red “CC” button and then make sure “Thai” is selected.
Resurrected what exactly? In 1958-60 Ne Win’s caretaker govt had yellow signs on every fence, wall and lamp post that said “Rule of Law and Peace in the Land First and Foremost”. Fitness Associations for the country’s youth ( a prototype for the USDA) with the lion’s head in a circle logo on green sleeveless vests were established.
Having tasted power and wealth, not least through army enterprises (long before the Chinese tried it post-Mao) overseen by his lieutenant Aung Gyi, NW founded a new political party after the 1962 coup as an after thought by the Revolutionary Council govt (the rest got banned), with a manifesto and ideological treatise written by ex-communist rebels who had ‘entered the light’ meaning surrendered. Socialism had been all the rage in the Third World then, as in Burma’s fight for independence and after winning it in 1948 through the parliamentary era.
Twenty six years after the 1962 coup, the ‘resurrected’ nation rose up, and they found it expedient after staging yet another coup to ditch their bogus socialism and jump on the globalisation bandwagon in an attempt at resurrecting and rebranding themselves the State Law and Order Restoration Council displaying a typical lack of imagination. Another two decades later it was doctor’s orders for a belated ‘democratic transformation’ to secure a new lease of life for military misrule that had gained so much notoriety across the planet.
What was the title of Hla Oo’s series of articles here in NM last year? Burma in Limbo. That from a Tatmadaw veteran, and whilst agreeing with MAT that “in countries such as Burma, anarchy is feared far more than tyranny,” given the trajectory he’d taken from being a Burma Army deserter to an Australian entrepreneur, he came to the unsurprising conclusion that we should never have driven the British out in the first place! Evolution, not revolution, guided by an experienced mentor. Resurrection unnecessary. Admittedly he’s no scholar, and no offence to the learned professor, but each to their own.
So for the last half century the Tatmadaw has been busy resurrecting the country in its own inimical way stunting every potential of the populace both physical and intellectual. Only the Burmese nation remains irrepressible in both spirit and endeavor, no thanks to their repeated attempts at resurrection.
Michael Aung-Thwin evidently thinks he speaks for the Burmese nation and knows what’s best for them. It is also somewhat reminiscent of Mahathir Mohamad and Lee Kuan Yew’s Asian values argument.
This is Yet Another Advertisement for an Expensive (USD$34) Bag of Bits. I’m sure it’s interesting… for you all in the Academic Class.
Do you feel yourselves more closely aligned with the right and the “representatives of big capitalists and landlords” or with the ‘left’ and the “representatives of national capital who want a western capitalism” and, ha ha, “democratic government”?
I have posted before about the ideology underpinning the presentation of Thailand in language courses for foreigners. One absurd example concerns the change in the Thai flag. We were told that the new design was introduced to get over the problem of Thai people inadvertently hanging their flag upside down!
Yes actually you are right, he was born on Saturday. Then the speculation about the flag being resemble to the allines’ one might be more accurate in this case.
@Nigella, you are right, and also wrong. I’m sorry but it sounds like you got ripped off by your ‘young Myanmar person’ friend… unless if your math is wrong, that would mean that 1USD is equal to 422 Kyat. The rate has never been that low, in the past 20 years. This year’s lowest rate was in August when it was down to 750 kyat per dollar, however, rates are now hovering at about 825-830 in Sept and October…
and in general, the MT supplement was quite interesting, but it was much to little, much too late in regards to CSR. they sensed the cause celebre that was the Myitsone project and how much it was getting discussed in the media, but promoted their CSR practices far too late. also, the Chinese government is terrible at PR.
all foreign investors, whether Thai, Chinese, or Belarussian, all get excitement behind the eyes when it comes to the lax rules regarding environmental and human protection in Myanmar. this all might be changing fairly soon with some very fascinating discussions in both the Upper and Lower House in the past weeks.
I’m still curious about this 1000 boats in the river claim and its link to royal advice. Smith Dharmasarojana at the Bangkok Post (http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/261047/smith-faults-water-management) says this: “Accelerating boats in the middle of the wide Chao Phraya River is a waste because they propel only the water on the surface.” He also faults the BMA and says that the floods are a result of poor decisions by the RID and others and that it is not a natural disaster.
Dr. Pavin Chachavalpongpun, starts at 20:20, runs to 21:12
…I think maybe you’re talking about a referendum… you know basically the June… if you want to go back to the crackdown in May[2010]… and then up until the July[2011] election… this is about a referendum, and it’s a referendum on everyone, it’s a referendum on whether you agree with Thaksin, it’s a referendum on whether you disagree with Abhisit Vejjajiva, and also it’s a referendum on your support, your loyalty to the monarchy. So I think it’s such a critical time in Thai politics, but as also Patrick says, you can’t just go and knock on each and every door and then do a survey… you know… “How much do you love your king?”… This is impossible. It’s a fine line though between being an anti-monarchy individual and being a republican. I think there is a line between them…
I think it’s a tribute to the Royal Thai Army and their propaganda machine, simple minded as it is, that they have even Phd.s mouthing their assertions about “the issues”.
I think the referendum was on the Thai military… and only incidentally about the monarchy, insofar as the military were able to identify their coup, its continuation, and their massacre with the monarchy itself.
If the line between the Thai monarchy and the Royal Thai Army… with the army calling themselves simply the Thai Army, for a start… could be clearly drawn, if the Thai Army could be prevented from hiding behind the monarchy’s skirts, then we should see everyone’s attention drawn to the ones who routinely kidnap, torture, and murder the Thai people… and that wouldn’t be the Thai monarchy.
The July referendum was a referendum on the Thai Army… on their coup, their putsch, their massacre… and they and their unelected front people were swept from power by a torrent so strong that even cooking the electoral books in Bangkok could not hide it.
It is true that the PAD/Military/Democrat machinations have very much diminished the monarchy in everyone’s eyes. But everyone knows the real source of their pain as well.
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FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
Regarding Somsak’s observtion that “Surachai Sae Dan of Daeng Sayam .. is facing the real prospect that he could be dying in jail. ” ; does anybody have news about the old printer jailed for forging royal papers years ago?
The late Tongbai Thongpao, who represented the man, wrote a sad cloumn in The Bangkok Post about the sole member of a conspircy to go to jail, all the others having enough money to avoid suffering the same fate. Without a royal pardon it appeared he would die in jail.
Interactive map of Burma
The map does not show the Naga tribes.
Starting point: Thailand in 1932
To make things a bit clearer, the right wing was represented by Plaek Pibulsonggram (better known as Phibun) and the left wing by Pridi Phanomyong.
Pridi wanted Thailand to adopt a democratic system based on the European system.
Phibun supported fascism and nationalism, and wanted to make himself the king. (Thailand didn’t really have a king between 1935 – 1946. Rama VII abdicated in 1935 and spent the rest of his life in England).
Nation, Religion, King – Episode 3
This podcast has presented in a highly commendable manner one of the most important issues/situations in contemporary Thailand, and yet many want to quibble about the meaning of a now defunct flag?
The meaning of the flag(s) are a valid, intriguing and telling part of the study of the development of the Thai nation – I do not doubt this. But I would just like to hear a few more voices address the major and much, much pressing issues discussed.
Thanks again for a truly worthwhile academic podcast.
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
If Sulak Sivaraksa & The Toronto Star are to be believed, all it takes is a whisper to stop all this nonsense.
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
http://www.prachatai3.info/journal/2011/10/37410
For those who can read Thai, this is a report on 2 little known cases of LM, one a 60 year-old Singaporean national who was already convicted and sentenced to 10-year imprisonment; he was caught and handed over to police by the UDD guards during one of their rallies in early 2009. Another is the case of a 40 year-old computer programmer who was arrested last month for allegedly posting on fb.
Plus, at the end of the report, there’s a very interesting and worrying list of LM cases – six or seven altogether – that Surachai Sae Dan of Daeng Sayam group is now facing. Given that there no prospect of bail or amnesty, and that these six or seven cases are at different stages, from the police (DSI) to the court, Surachai is facing the real prospect that he could be dying in jail. He’s 68 and even if one case is finished in one court, others cases could be followed in other courts.
Amsterdam in Bangkok
Who cares for Amsterdam and his grandstanding for Thaksin???? Every Thai, including myself, have flood concerns to prioritize.
Starting point: Thailand in 1932
I would like to reemphasize that this is a translation by Khun Chris B. That it costs $34 to download the entire piece of propaganda is remarkable. Not the way to get rich!
Nation, Religion, King – Episode 2
[…] “р╕Щр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Ыр╕▒р╕Нр╕лр╕▓р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Щр╣Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕▒р╕Зр╕зр╕ер╕бр╕▓р╕Бр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕кр╕╕р╕Ф р╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕бр╕▒р╕Щр╕Бр╕ер╕▒р╕Ър╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Ър╕▓р╕ер╣Др╕лр╕Щр╣Ж р╕Бр╣Зр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕нр╕вр╕▓р╕Бр╕Ир╕░р╣Бр╕Хр╕░ р╕Цр╣Йр╕▓р╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Ър╕▓р╕ер╣Др╕лр╕Щр╕бр╕╡р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Бр╕ер╣Йр╕▓р╕лр╕▓р╕Нр╕Юр╕нр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ир╕░р╕Ир╕▒р╕Фр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕кр╕Щр╕нр╕Фр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╣Др╕Фр╣Й р╕бр╕▒р╕Щр╕нр╕▓р╕Ир╕Ир╕░р╣Бр╕Бр╣Йр╕Ыр╕▒р╕Нр╕лр╕▓р╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕ир╕▓р╕кр╕Щр╕▓ р╣Ар╕Кр╕╖р╣Йр╕нр╕Кр╕▓р╕Хр╕┤ р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Др╕▒р╕Ър╣Бр╕Др╣Йр╕Щр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Ър╕гр╕гр╣Ар╕Чр╕▓р╕ер╕Зр╣Др╕Фр╣Й” р╕Фр╕зр╕Зр╕вр╕┤р╕лр╕зр╕▓р╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╣Гр╕Щр╣Ар╕зр╣Зр╕Ър╣Др╕Лр╕Хр╣Мр╕Щр╕┤р╕зр╣Бр╕бр╕Щр╕Фр╕▓р╕ер╕▓ […]
Thailand’s succession planning
Don’t forget the fact that maintaining the monarchy is very expensive for the country. For example, these days we are reminded of the cost of Princess Petcharut’s funeral when the Minister of Culture brought up a figure of over 200 million to cover the bier and all the trappings. Why can’t the facilities at any of the major monasteries serve the purpose. Remember, even a celestial princess is mortal like anybody else. Oh, the priciple of sufficiency economy, where art thou?
Nation, Religion, King – Episode 2
New Mandala readers following our “Nation, Religion, King” series will want to check out Prachatai‘s article on episode 2. It is available here. Thai language subtitles for that episode are also available. Just click on the red “CC” button and then make sure “Thai” is selected.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Prachatai’s defence
I have added an update from FACT on Day 12 of the trial.
Starting point: Burma in 1962
Resurrected what exactly? In 1958-60 Ne Win’s caretaker govt had yellow signs on every fence, wall and lamp post that said “Rule of Law and Peace in the Land First and Foremost”. Fitness Associations for the country’s youth ( a prototype for the USDA) with the lion’s head in a circle logo on green sleeveless vests were established.
Having tasted power and wealth, not least through army enterprises (long before the Chinese tried it post-Mao) overseen by his lieutenant Aung Gyi, NW founded a new political party after the 1962 coup as an after thought by the Revolutionary Council govt (the rest got banned), with a manifesto and ideological treatise written by ex-communist rebels who had ‘entered the light’ meaning surrendered. Socialism had been all the rage in the Third World then, as in Burma’s fight for independence and after winning it in 1948 through the parliamentary era.
Twenty six years after the 1962 coup, the ‘resurrected’ nation rose up, and they found it expedient after staging yet another coup to ditch their bogus socialism and jump on the globalisation bandwagon in an attempt at resurrecting and rebranding themselves the State Law and Order Restoration Council displaying a typical lack of imagination. Another two decades later it was doctor’s orders for a belated ‘democratic transformation’ to secure a new lease of life for military misrule that had gained so much notoriety across the planet.
What was the title of Hla Oo’s series of articles here in NM last year? Burma in Limbo. That from a Tatmadaw veteran, and whilst agreeing with MAT that “in countries such as Burma, anarchy is feared far more than tyranny,” given the trajectory he’d taken from being a Burma Army deserter to an Australian entrepreneur, he came to the unsurprising conclusion that we should never have driven the British out in the first place! Evolution, not revolution, guided by an experienced mentor. Resurrection unnecessary. Admittedly he’s no scholar, and no offence to the learned professor, but each to their own.
So for the last half century the Tatmadaw has been busy resurrecting the country in its own inimical way stunting every potential of the populace both physical and intellectual. Only the Burmese nation remains irrepressible in both spirit and endeavor, no thanks to their repeated attempts at resurrection.
Michael Aung-Thwin evidently thinks he speaks for the Burmese nation and knows what’s best for them. It is also somewhat reminiscent of Mahathir Mohamad and Lee Kuan Yew’s Asian values argument.
Starting point: Thailand in 1932
This is Yet Another Advertisement for an Expensive (USD$34) Bag of Bits. I’m sure it’s interesting… for you all in the Academic Class.
Do you feel yourselves more closely aligned with the right and the “representatives of big capitalists and landlords” or with the ‘left’ and the “representatives of national capital who want a western capitalism” and, ha ha, “democratic government”?
Nation, Religion, King – Episode 3
I have posted before about the ideology underpinning the presentation of Thailand in language courses for foreigners. One absurd example concerns the change in the Thai flag. We were told that the new design was introduced to get over the problem of Thai people inadvertently hanging their flag upside down!
Nation, Religion, King – Episode 3
Ulf Mielke – 6
Yes actually you are right, he was born on Saturday. Then the speculation about the flag being resemble to the allines’ one might be more accurate in this case.
Infinite feeling: Sino-Burmese relations
@Nigella, you are right, and also wrong. I’m sorry but it sounds like you got ripped off by your ‘young Myanmar person’ friend… unless if your math is wrong, that would mean that 1USD is equal to 422 Kyat. The rate has never been that low, in the past 20 years. This year’s lowest rate was in August when it was down to 750 kyat per dollar, however, rates are now hovering at about 825-830 in Sept and October…
and in general, the MT supplement was quite interesting, but it was much to little, much too late in regards to CSR. they sensed the cause celebre that was the Myitsone project and how much it was getting discussed in the media, but promoted their CSR practices far too late. also, the Chinese government is terrible at PR.
all foreign investors, whether Thai, Chinese, or Belarussian, all get excitement behind the eyes when it comes to the lax rules regarding environmental and human protection in Myanmar. this all might be changing fairly soon with some very fascinating discussions in both the Upper and Lower House in the past weeks.
Floods, hacks and the Nitirat effect
I’m still curious about this 1000 boats in the river claim and its link to royal advice. Smith Dharmasarojana at the Bangkok Post (http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/261047/smith-faults-water-management) says this: “Accelerating boats in the middle of the wide Chao Phraya River is a waste because they propel only the water on the surface.” He also faults the BMA and says that the floods are a result of poor decisions by the RID and others and that it is not a natural disaster.
Nation, Religion, King – Episode 3
Dr. Pavin Chachavalpongpun, starts at 20:20, runs to 21:12
I think it’s a tribute to the Royal Thai Army and their propaganda machine, simple minded as it is, that they have even Phd.s mouthing their assertions about “the issues”.
I think the referendum was on the Thai military… and only incidentally about the monarchy, insofar as the military were able to identify their coup, its continuation, and their massacre with the monarchy itself.
If the line between the Thai monarchy and the Royal Thai Army… with the army calling themselves simply the Thai Army, for a start… could be clearly drawn, if the Thai Army could be prevented from hiding behind the monarchy’s skirts, then we should see everyone’s attention drawn to the ones who routinely kidnap, torture, and murder the Thai people… and that wouldn’t be the Thai monarchy.
The July referendum was a referendum on the Thai Army… on their coup, their putsch, their massacre… and they and their unelected front people were swept from power by a torrent so strong that even cooking the electoral books in Bangkok could not hide it.
It is true that the PAD/Military/Democrat machinations have very much diminished the monarchy in everyone’s eyes. But everyone knows the real source of their pain as well.
Interactive map of Burma
Nice map… don’t forget that the Stimson Institute in an integral part of US Wehrmacht Policy Wonkdom.