The animals of the “Vote No” popster were professional politicians, not rural Red Shirts. The idea was that if nobody voted for the professional politicans, the king would then nominate people of the calibre of Anan Panyarachun, resulting in a competent government of honest servants of the monarchy whose top priority would be good governance rather than making a profit on their investment in getting elected. And let’s face it – Anan did a pretty good job in 1991-92.
Andrew Walker, and the rest here, are slaves of intellectual dishonesty. EVERY nation is different than it was in 1992, and you know full well you were once again shoehorning your ideology into some pseudo-academic argument suggesting that people have more access to information so are less supportive of the traditional establishments.
Fact is PTP has a 38% mandate by eligible voters – not anything even close to resembling a majority – but rather a slim majority in an election with poor turn out. When much less than half of eligible voters vote for you, despite having more votes than other parties, is it fair to say you have a real mandate to run the country?
Let’s be honest – and the answer is no, you don’t. You may have performed better than other parties, but you have no clear mandate, nor boast majority support of the nation you run. This is one of many flaws in “democracy.” When you consider that 38% disregarded the rule of law and voted for a party overtly run by a convicted criminal, that 38% doesn’t if stand legitimately.
I have the greatest sympathy for those who do not like the current government, however, PTP is not an improvement, unless of course you are for free-trade, globalization, and the global corporatocracy despoiling yet another nation.
Nobody can out-think Thaksin in a chess match. He’s a brilliant chess player. His opponents will forever doubt every move they try against him going forward. Who is eager to challenge him now?
Robert, do you think you may possibly be a little too gushing, a little too North Korean even?
Seh Fah – 20
As my taxi driver put it this morning “Nayok kha prachachon yu mai dai.” (A prime minister who kills the people cannot remain in office”.)
Isn’t that what the yellow shirts were saying about Somchai?
“Thailand is very different to what it was in 1992” So was Australia. Back in 1992, the country was full of bogans, skinheads and racist white supremacists !
There is a window of opportunity for things to move forward now. Those extra-parliamentary forces should recognize that the more they meddle the more people go the other way. PTP have done better than PPP did and the Dems have gone down. Lets hope that PTP are allowed space to form a government without pressures and to get on with running the country and delivering on their promises. It shouldnt be forgotten that the establishment gave this election at a time they chose, called it a let the people decide election and have even with perceived advantages and years to undermine their opponents lost. They may yet realise that the world is a changing place and they are increasingly out of touch with it and have no tools to change this
Parliament is also going to be fun with Chuwit in it. He makes Chalerm look positively boring and has more fire than the velvet assasin that was Chuan years back.
“Andrew, A tall order I know but would you care to estimate how long it will take for a Pheua Thai government to:
1) Repeal/review the Les Majeste laws. Lunchtime tomorrow.
2) Bring the military under the control of a civilian government. Around 11 AM on Thursday.
3) Root out institutional corruption. That’s a tough one. Probably next Monday or Tuesday.
4) Promulgate a reasonable constitution with checks and balances on executive power. August 12, 2 PM
Note that these are preliminary estimates and may need to be revised as events unfold.
Andrew Walker 11
“The point I’m making here is Thailand is very different to what it was in 1992″
Andrew,
A tall order I know but would you care to estimate how long it will take for a Pheua Thai government to:
1) Repeal/review the Les Majeste laws
2) Bring the military under the control of a civilian government
3) Root out institutional corruption
4) Promulgate a reasonable constitution with checks and balances on executive power.
I wont bother asking about investigation punishment of past misdemeanours for any of the big players as thats obviously been sorted under the table and the buzzword is as always”national unity”
Nice to see Genl Sonthi is happy to work with the new government if there are any scraps left.
But this is what Walker does often, takes irrelevant, inappropriate samples, statistics, and correlations, and uses them to shoehorn his ideology into something resembling academia.
Tony it’s not often that I defend Andrew Walker, and I suspect it isn’t especially appreciated, needed or wanted, but I did listen to the podcast and I don’t think he implied that increased internet connections and mobile phones directly contributed to the PT victory.
As you say internet access in the northeast is probably not that common at home and using mobile phones for this access strikes me as rather expensive when I do it. Then again we do see young people of all educational levels using the internet whether it’s through mobile phones, home connections or internet cafes. What would be extremely hard to prove as you say is that internet access favours the PT. It could be equally supposed that the Democrats, because of a more urban base, would get more out of it.
Standing back a little from just Thailand and looking at recent political developments around the world, especially in the non-industrialized and the former eastern block nations, I suspect the new media actually inherently helps the opposition rather than the establishment, so there may be some truth in the implication that wasn’t made as far as I can see. 🙂
Still if this is the case we may see a role reversal as the Democrats are now the opposition. I have been thinking what issues are going to stir up opposition campaigns and the obvious one that has to be faced is when PT tries to push through an amnesty for Thaksin and the red shirt leaders.
Having said that there is another issue that I guess will have people in the streets which we haven’t mentioned much. I suspect the PT will be looking at privatising state enterprises in order to pay for some of their economic giveaways. As we know there is little love from the state enterprise unions towards Thaksin because this is what he was attempting to last time. It’s noticeable that Chuwit sees the airport link deals as the corruption to lead on against PT. There were suspicions of contracts for friends as the SRT was frozen out.
It will be interesting though if we have workers in the streets where some sympathies will lie on New Mandala. Maybe it’s easier being in opposition.
The people of Thailand have spoken… with a roar. I hope even those whose ears have been plugged with years of “democrat / royalist” bull*&* can hear the call of the Thais. This is real majority, not just some claims of -you don’t understand Thai people rubbish.
LondonEye: It is a bit difficult to conceive of a 72% turnout as somehow not representative. I know Abhisit said something similar when he started talking about a majority didn’t vote for PT, but he’s fudging. Maybe a question to be asked is whether the anti-Thaksin lot will now be “progressive, and non-confrontational.” I somehow doubt it.
On connectivity, it is a bit dumb to talk about ownership of computers. In many villages and towns the internet cafes are hard to miss. In addition, mobile phones now provide access to the internet for many and SMS passes on many ideas that are drawn from the internet. So ownership of a clunky computer is but one factor to consider.
[…] Global Voices Online: Thailand: ‘Vote No’ Campaign Women Learning Thai: Vote NO! Animal Campaing: Political Posters Translated (I liked this page a lot, it has some Thai political cartoons not only in translation but with a culturally relevant explanation as well.) FACT– Freedom Against Censorship Thailand: FACTorial: If voting could change anything it would be illegal. No choice in Thailand. New Mandala: “Vote No” Logic Flawed […]
Some of these comments worry me because they seem to conflate voting for Thaksin with voting for democracy. Yes, lets reject the coup and the entrenched elite. But lets not overlook Thaksin’s blatant self interest. Lets hope the new new government prove themselves as inclusive, progressive, and non-confrontational leaders. I have to say I am not optimistic they will do more than simply suit Thaksin’s financial interests without really changing deeper social divisions.
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Can the Democrats make it six in a row?
LesAbbey #28
The animals of the “Vote No” popster were professional politicians, not rural Red Shirts. The idea was that if nobody voted for the professional politicans, the king would then nominate people of the calibre of Anan Panyarachun, resulting in a competent government of honest servants of the monarchy whose top priority would be good governance rather than making a profit on their investment in getting elected. And let’s face it – Anan did a pretty good job in 1991-92.
National unity?
No, Andrew. Thats just more finger pointing.
Thai Election 2011: Early predictions
Andrew Walker, and the rest here, are slaves of intellectual dishonesty. EVERY nation is different than it was in 1992, and you know full well you were once again shoehorning your ideology into some pseudo-academic argument suggesting that people have more access to information so are less supportive of the traditional establishments.
Fact is PTP has a 38% mandate by eligible voters – not anything even close to resembling a majority – but rather a slim majority in an election with poor turn out. When much less than half of eligible voters vote for you, despite having more votes than other parties, is it fair to say you have a real mandate to run the country?
Let’s be honest – and the answer is no, you don’t. You may have performed better than other parties, but you have no clear mandate, nor boast majority support of the nation you run. This is one of many flaws in “democracy.” When you consider that 38% disregarded the rule of law and voted for a party overtly run by a convicted criminal, that 38% doesn’t if stand legitimately.
I have the greatest sympathy for those who do not like the current government, however, PTP is not an improvement, unless of course you are for free-trade, globalization, and the global corporatocracy despoiling yet another nation.
Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra
Fantastic result. Maybe we can all book tickets back to Thailand now?
Party for Pheua Thai
Thanks for the photos Nick!
Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra
Robert Daley – 5
Nobody can out-think Thaksin in a chess match. He’s a brilliant chess player. His opponents will forever doubt every move they try against him going forward. Who is eager to challenge him now?
Robert, do you think you may possibly be a little too gushing, a little too North Korean even?
Seh Fah – 20
As my taxi driver put it this morning “Nayok kha prachachon yu mai dai.” (A prime minister who kills the people cannot remain in office”.)
Isn’t that what the yellow shirts were saying about Somchai?
Thai Election 2011: Early predictions
“Thailand is very different to what it was in 1992” So was Australia. Back in 1992, the country was full of bogans, skinheads and racist white supremacists !
Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra
There is a window of opportunity for things to move forward now. Those extra-parliamentary forces should recognize that the more they meddle the more people go the other way. PTP have done better than PPP did and the Dems have gone down. Lets hope that PTP are allowed space to form a government without pressures and to get on with running the country and delivering on their promises. It shouldnt be forgotten that the establishment gave this election at a time they chose, called it a let the people decide election and have even with perceived advantages and years to undermine their opponents lost. They may yet realise that the world is a changing place and they are increasingly out of touch with it and have no tools to change this
Parliament is also going to be fun with Chuwit in it. He makes Chalerm look positively boring and has more fire than the velvet assasin that was Chuan years back.
Thai Election 2011: Early predictions
Tammany: answers inserted below, in italics.
“Andrew, A tall order I know but would you care to estimate how long it will take for a Pheua Thai government to:
1) Repeal/review the Les Majeste laws. Lunchtime tomorrow.
2) Bring the military under the control of a civilian government. Around 11 AM on Thursday.
3) Root out institutional corruption. That’s a tough one. Probably next Monday or Tuesday.
4) Promulgate a reasonable constitution with checks and balances on executive power. August 12, 2 PM
Note that these are preliminary estimates and may need to be revised as events unfold.
Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra
Robert Dayley #5
As my taxi driver put it this morning “Nayok kha prachachon yu mai dai.” (A prime minister who kills the people cannot remain in office”.)
Thai Election 2011: Early predictions
Andrew Walker 11
“The point I’m making here is Thailand is very different to what it was in 1992″
Andrew,
A tall order I know but would you care to estimate how long it will take for a Pheua Thai government to:
1) Repeal/review the Les Majeste laws
2) Bring the military under the control of a civilian government
3) Root out institutional corruption
4) Promulgate a reasonable constitution with checks and balances on executive power.
I wont bother asking about investigation punishment of past misdemeanours for any of the big players as thats obviously been sorted under the table and the buzzword is as always”national unity”
Nice to see Genl Sonthi is happy to work with the new government if there are any scraps left.
Thai Election 2011: Early predictions
Tony – 8
But this is what Walker does often, takes irrelevant, inappropriate samples, statistics, and correlations, and uses them to shoehorn his ideology into something resembling academia.
Tony it’s not often that I defend Andrew Walker, and I suspect it isn’t especially appreciated, needed or wanted, but I did listen to the podcast and I don’t think he implied that increased internet connections and mobile phones directly contributed to the PT victory.
As you say internet access in the northeast is probably not that common at home and using mobile phones for this access strikes me as rather expensive when I do it. Then again we do see young people of all educational levels using the internet whether it’s through mobile phones, home connections or internet cafes. What would be extremely hard to prove as you say is that internet access favours the PT. It could be equally supposed that the Democrats, because of a more urban base, would get more out of it.
Standing back a little from just Thailand and looking at recent political developments around the world, especially in the non-industrialized and the former eastern block nations, I suspect the new media actually inherently helps the opposition rather than the establishment, so there may be some truth in the implication that wasn’t made as far as I can see. 🙂
Still if this is the case we may see a role reversal as the Democrats are now the opposition. I have been thinking what issues are going to stir up opposition campaigns and the obvious one that has to be faced is when PT tries to push through an amnesty for Thaksin and the red shirt leaders.
Having said that there is another issue that I guess will have people in the streets which we haven’t mentioned much. I suspect the PT will be looking at privatising state enterprises in order to pay for some of their economic giveaways. As we know there is little love from the state enterprise unions towards Thaksin because this is what he was attempting to last time. It’s noticeable that Chuwit sees the airport link deals as the corruption to lead on against PT. There were suspicions of contracts for friends as the SRT was frozen out.
It will be interesting though if we have workers in the streets where some sympathies will lie on New Mandala. Maybe it’s easier being in opposition.
Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra
The people of Thailand have spoken… with a roar. I hope even those whose ears have been plugged with years of “democrat / royalist” bull*&* can hear the call of the Thais. This is real majority, not just some claims of -you don’t understand Thai people rubbish.
National unity?
Never forget in Asia that Unity always comes before Liberty…
Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra
Oops, sorry, but by representative in my previous comment, I meant representative of a spirit of democratic participation.
Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra
LondonEye: It is a bit difficult to conceive of a 72% turnout as somehow not representative. I know Abhisit said something similar when he started talking about a majority didn’t vote for PT, but he’s fudging. Maybe a question to be asked is whether the anti-Thaksin lot will now be “progressive, and non-confrontational.” I somehow doubt it.
Thai Election 2011: Early predictions
On connectivity, it is a bit dumb to talk about ownership of computers. In many villages and towns the internet cafes are hard to miss. In addition, mobile phones now provide access to the internet for many and SMS passes on many ideas that are drawn from the internet. So ownership of a clunky computer is but one factor to consider.
“Vote No” logic flawed
[…] Global Voices Online: Thailand: ‘Vote No’ Campaign Women Learning Thai: Vote NO! Animal Campaing: Political Posters Translated (I liked this page a lot, it has some Thai political cartoons not only in translation but with a culturally relevant explanation as well.) FACT– Freedom Against Censorship Thailand: FACTorial: If voting could change anything it would be illegal. No choice in Thailand. New Mandala: “Vote No” Logic Flawed […]
Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra
Fraud probe could change poll results.
Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra
Some of these comments worry me because they seem to conflate voting for Thaksin with voting for democracy. Yes, lets reject the coup and the entrenched elite. But lets not overlook Thaksin’s blatant self interest. Lets hope the new new government prove themselves as inclusive, progressive, and non-confrontational leaders. I have to say I am not optimistic they will do more than simply suit Thaksin’s financial interests without really changing deeper social divisions.