I agree entirely. Border disputes should be negotiated, not fought over. But in the southern border provinces there are Buddhists willing to kill Muslims in order to keep the border where it is, and Muslims willing to kill Buddhists in order to move the border to the northern limit of Muslim-majority territory. One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. There are many Malay Muslims living in Pattani who regard the Siamese as colonial oppressors to be expelled by force of arms, which is one of the reasons why attacks by BRN and RKK insurgents have become a daily occurence.
During last Saturday’s debate at Hua Lamphong railway station, Chuwit suggested regional autonomy as a solution. It seems to me to be the most sensible solution proposed so far.
Reference http://mclm.org.uk/, Malaysia’s Civil Liberties Movement website, and need for Thailand Civil Liberties Union (TCLU)
I have broached this subject in the past but have not had much response. Given the number of NGOs, human rights groups and so on in Thailand, one would think that a formal TCLU with legal staff and so on might be able to make headway against recalcitrant police and reform-needed justice system procedures that all combine to create so much injustice here.
Reporters organizations, NGOs, etc., everyone can sit in on an organization meeting and discuss how to set up this organization that will finally begin to take lese majesté and criminal defamation cases to court, but not in the way they are being taken at this time. That is, with counter-filings and real moves toward issuing of court injunctions that begin to cut back on injustice whether from police or others.
Let’s get organized.
What were they supposed to do? Wait for the Chula army snipers to start killing them?
It was a bad PR move, granted, but if you had your peoples’ brains being splattered over the sidewalk what would you do? Wait for the press to show up and save you?
The full story of Chula has yet to be told – that that hospital’s PAD supporting managers likely allowed Thai Army snipers to be stationed there.
“Grey Area” #9: Belated kudos for a great comment on Thanong. I enjoyed it a great deal.
“Ryan” #133: I don’t really want to get into a slanging match with Reuters as I think it is a sideshow that distracts from the important issues. I don’t think they would have felt able even to publish my Foreign Policy piece, but I would have welcomed the chance to discuss it with them; instead they refused to publish anything and refused to discuss further without even seeing a proper draft of what I proposed.
One other interesting thing is that the day after my article on Hiro Muramoto was written [http://www.zenjournalist.com/2011/06/in-memory-of-hiro-muramoto/] the Asia editor, who was largely responsible for refusing to consider publication of #thaistory without seeing it, and also for many of the missteps in the debacle over Hiro, was demoted and replaced. I have no idea the extent to which these events are connected, but I am pretty sure they are not entirely unconnected.
Have just read cable 07BANGKOK5738 and items 7/8 on succession planning are quite revelatory for me in my ignorance.
It seems that at the very highest levels of power and influence any discussions of mortality are believed to be unpropitious to put it mildly and are therefore uncountenanced.
This would explain what so many fahrangs (inc Paul Handley) do not fully understand. If Tej Bunnags highly confidential request is to be accepted and understood at face value it behoves us to try to understand this cultural mindset.
That said; it is interesting that 65 years ago Prince Dhani could lecture on Malinowski’s socio-anthropological viewpoint :
‘‘A society which makes its tradition sacred has gained by it inestimable advantage of power and permanence. Such beliefs and practices, therefore, which put a halo of sanctity round tradition, will have a ‘survival value’ for the type of civilization in which they
have been evolved. . . . They were bought at an extravagant price, and are to be maintained at any cost.’’
Yet, in this modern age the court would appear to have reverted to what some would call primitive superstition.
@Seh Fah (#15) said: “I’m also a little dubious about the validity of “agreements” reached between the militarily powerful (France at the time) and the militarily weak (Siam).”
You made a very interesting point. This is an issue of coercion and undue influence. And yes, according to international law, if one state forces another state to accept their agreement, or exercises undue influence to pressure other state to accept the agreement, the agreement itself would be deemed to be invalid.
There is strong evidence that Thailand was under considerable pressure to accept the French map. Thus, when France still exercised its sovereignty over Cambodia, Thailand may argue that it was forced to accept France’s map because of undue influence.
The problem is France later gave independence to Cambodia, thus Thailand would then no longer be under undue influence to raise its objection about the inaccuracy of the map. And it should have acted quickly to object this map after Cambodia regained sovereignty. If Thailand has chosen to do object quickly after sovereignty had been passed to Cambodia, the ICJ may accept the argument that the reason Thailand has not raised its objection for decades is because of undue influence.
Unfortunately, Thailand has not objected immediately after Cambodia gained independence. In fact it had not objected for many years. Thus ‘undue influence’ is probably no longer a very convincing issue at the time of the litigation (1961) 😉
My father-in-law has had remunerative offers to “canvas” from the three major parties so far.
I am told he has turned them all down….
I’ll pay a visit to the local polling station on Sunday in the off chance that this is an historical event. However I suspect its “plus ca meme chose”
No mention on your website about Sean Crispins latest gossip? It’s been quite a week for gossip…
The ‘Foreign Policy’ article is a terrific distillation of your recent extended essays. Reading some of the sentences on paper (or online) – of things we all know, but have never been able to see written before – is frankly, jaw-dropping. My own view is that it will probably be these kinds of articles that have a more profound impact than the longer pieces.
Out of interest, do you think Reuters would have published the Foreign Policy piece? If not, does this disappoint you or have you sufficiently rationalised it?
@Seh Fah
Borders should never be a matter to kill people, slain them, behead them …
And YES, the border in the South has moved recently by the fact that most non-muslims left (to save their lives) or where slain !
Having a buddhist monk walking the streets on an early morning is an intolerable view for murderous intolerant people that should not be listened to …
PS: You can see some famous buddhist (Tha├п) temples in Malaysia, but -happily- peace prevails between the 2 countries because Malaysia is a democracy and HunSen is an autocrat !
Actually, no, i have never doubted that Prachatai received a grant from this foundation. I also know that it received a grant from another German foundation.
What is out for lunch is your tinfoil hat speculation that it all is part of “concerted effort by a cabal of notorious Neo-Cons”. Laughable.
Do you know that Prachatai has actually been founded as a critical news website during Thaksin’s government to counter Thaksin’s pressure against the media?
Do you understand/know that the amount of money you are so fixated upon is less than the operating cost for a month of a half decent magazine here (excluding printing costs), and Prachatai has to stretch such sums for a lot longer?
If a “Neo-con cabal” is so poor that they have just 1.5 Million Baht left over for Thailand’s most important critical news website, than the last thing we all need to be scared off is that cabal. Do you understand this? A revolution needs a whole lot more money. And Prachatai could do with a whole lot more money – not to start a revolution, but to simply report news.
#128 try dealing with the facts that I presented. Attacking me personally belittles not just yourself as an intellectual, but everyone with a doctorate.
Fact is Prachatai is funded by the US government via a very notorious organization, NED known for engineering political destabilizations and regime change – in the interest of its big-business tied board members.
Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Frank Carlucci (2002), Will Marshall, and Vin Weber? You don’t understand what’s wrong with taking money from people like this? This is satire? This is a fact you mean, a fact you can’t deal with so you call it satire. For the people being duped by NED and the outfits like Prachatai who perpetuate their nefarious agendas, it’s not “satire,” it is misleading and disingenuous and damaging.
Again, Prachatai doesn’t post this info on their site, because they do seem to have something to hide.
Freedom House, who Prachatai dutifully reports on often, is also lined with similar people who’s ideals are less than conducive with the stated purpose of both NED and Freedom House.
Kenneth Adelman (former Thaksin lobbyist), Max M. Kampelman, Donald Rumsfeld (formally), Paula Dobriansky, Leonard Sussman, and Ellen Bork? These are people genuinely interested in “freedom” and “human rights?” You mean when they aren’t covering up atrocities in Iraqi and Cuban prisons? Or conducting rendition flights in their fraudulent “war on terror?”
These very same people, through their own private lobbying firms, Edelman, Baker Botts, Amsterdam & Peroff, Kobre & Kim, BGR, are propping up Thaksin Shinawatra, on record, along with his disingenuous, self-serving “red shirt” movement. Yes, it is HIS movement.
So go on Marshall/Walker, the two of you belittle the professions you undertake when you shrink from facts and instead attack the messenger. You accuse me of being “paid” and of having dubious credentials. My message, as I’ve said before, is self-evident. I challenge you to research it first, then comment on the facts, not my personality, not what the Thai army is also doing (a tactic we’ve all learned in the 5th grade), but why Prachatai and Thaksin are receiving aid from this nefarious cabal of foreign business interests and how we should perceive it as anything other than treason and neo-colonialism….
If I truly believed the Thai military was taking this money, and carrying out the West’s agenda, I would most certainly cover it. I have not seen any credible evidence of this, instead it seems very similar to Pakistan where the money is given in hopes that someone will at the right moment turn toward the US.
I suggest, Mr. Walker, you put down Marhsall’s unsubstantiated cables, and pick up Brookings Institution’s signed confession titled, “Which Path to Persia?” and see how very real this all is.
For me if this election is clean and fair, I believe the Democrat will get less than 100 seats. Don’t forget that the Democrat has all kinds of power backing them, such as the central election commissioners and else wheres, the powerful elites that can change black into white, judges and attorney, those government officers that will take orders from above and many more. I observe during the past, the Democrat could only loose dearly when more than 70% of the voters turn out to vote. The Democrat could win the election only when the percentages of the vote were low. They can manipulate, unless the Thais realize its time to terminate them.
No matter how this election turn out, history has already been made. Those elites who control the scene from behind will be shocked by the will of the Thais to seek change for a better and a more modern Thailand because they know deeply in their hearts the real result of this election.
After 3 rd of July, changes will have to happen no matter how powerful all these power are. Even the Democrat can form the next government, the nuclear bomb has already been ignited. The more dirty the Democrat moves, the more powerful the red-shirt will becomes. The Red-shirt has already become the most power constitution in Thailand, much more powerful than all the military added together. This is a risky business.
Just to update you on the publication schedule, Part 3 will be published July 5 and Part 4 on July 11. Unlike previous self-imposed deadlines which I then spectacularly missed, these are designed to give me time to do the work properly and also eat and sleep. In the meantime, for those who have not seen it, I have summarized key insights from the cables in Foreign Policy magazine: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/06/29/red_shirts_and_rowdy_royals I’m not thrilled about the headline they gave it, but the story is rather shorter than the Mahabarata-length #thaistory and has hyperlinks to a number of cables.
My mistake. I meant to say “not a unanimous decision”.
I’m also a little dubious about the validity of “agreements” reached between the militarily powerful (France at the time) and the militarily weak (Siam).
And now, I would value your views on the Mekong River border between Thailand and Laos, and my contention that the southern border should be moved three-and-a-half provinces north.
@Seh Fah
Watersheds change over time with erosion. Rivers are known to change their entire course on rare occasion. There is more than one watershed near the temple. You can see the watershed using Google Earth, and there is a watershed that clearly puts the temple on Cambodia’s side. The temple issue was resolved in 1962 – the political energy wasted on saving face is better spent solving real problems.
Over at Prachatai, where Tony has posted his comment on evil, foreign scum funding that organization, a contributor had this comment, worth repeating here:
…$55,000 seems a drop when compared to the billions upon billions that the US has handed over to the Thai military and to arms of the Thai state that repress and torture. A recent example has been the training of Army snipers by US Marines. Why is that okay and considered valid while Prachatai is condemned for… providing information that is censored from much of the mainstream media? Isn’t there just a little too much ideological inconsistency and lack of weight and judgement in this so-called conspiracy of scum and traitors?
Tony, I love your parodies. Classic Not-The-Nation stuff (with the nice stylistic flourish of getting your Andrews mixed up, as if you are writing in a fit of passion). Very clever critique of the anti-globalist position. Be careful, however, as sometimes irony doesn’t translate well (as I have discovered several times) and some readers may think you are serious. But, rest assured, I don’t. AW
Tony 125
“a concerted effort by a cabal of notorious Neo-Cons and big business interests aligning behind Thaksin and his movement to destabilize and over throw Thailand”
As you say this information is in the public domain and comes as no real surprise. All entrepreneurial parties in Thailand have been in the BMW/Big Mac import business for 60 years now. Thanks for the documentation though. Thaksins lobbying activities in the west and his business links are well known. Andrew Marshalls compilations are more controversial because they are not to be openly discussed in polite society. It comes as no surprise that foreign investors want liberalization of Thai markets. Whether Thaksin can tease that away from nationalist xenophobia remains to be seen.
A growing middle class increasingly wants to have it’s Big Mac and eat it too. Time will tell if this is a healthy choice or if they should stick to the diet prescribed by their elders and betters. Like it or not this is modern democracy-freedom of choice.
My personal experience however is that many Thais although espousing freedom of choice often do not like to live with the consequences of their decisions and expect “Father” to make everything right again.
I expect it will be some time before this cultural mind set matures to catch up with political evolution.
“I reckon Thaksin paid the French to put the temple on the wrong side of the border.”
I think you are right, in Thailand the Dems are always saying “It’s Thaksin’s fault”, just like in the USA the Dems always say “It’s Bushes fault”. It must be true, because how could so many people possibly be wrong so many times?
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Can the Democrats make it six in a row?
Angelo Michael #16
I agree entirely. Border disputes should be negotiated, not fought over. But in the southern border provinces there are Buddhists willing to kill Muslims in order to keep the border where it is, and Muslims willing to kill Buddhists in order to move the border to the northern limit of Muslim-majority territory. One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. There are many Malay Muslims living in Pattani who regard the Siamese as colonial oppressors to be expelled by force of arms, which is one of the reasons why attacks by BRN and RKK insurgents have become a daily occurence.
During last Saturday’s debate at Hua Lamphong railway station, Chuwit suggested regional autonomy as a solution. It seems to me to be the most sensible solution proposed so far.
A story with big implications
Reference http://mclm.org.uk/, Malaysia’s Civil Liberties Movement website, and need for Thailand Civil Liberties Union (TCLU)
I have broached this subject in the past but have not had much response. Given the number of NGOs, human rights groups and so on in Thailand, one would think that a formal TCLU with legal staff and so on might be able to make headway against recalcitrant police and reform-needed justice system procedures that all combine to create so much injustice here.
Reporters organizations, NGOs, etc., everyone can sit in on an organization meeting and discuss how to set up this organization that will finally begin to take lese majesté and criminal defamation cases to court, but not in the way they are being taken at this time. That is, with counter-filings and real moves toward issuing of court injunctions that begin to cut back on injustice whether from police or others.
Let’s get organized.
Frank G Anderson
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
Nick Nostitz re #124
“an incredible idiocy”
What were they supposed to do? Wait for the Chula army snipers to start killing them?
It was a bad PR move, granted, but if you had your peoples’ brains being splattered over the sidewalk what would you do? Wait for the press to show up and save you?
The full story of Chula has yet to be told – that that hospital’s PAD supporting managers likely allowed Thai Army snipers to be stationed there.
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
“Grey Area” #9: Belated kudos for a great comment on Thanong. I enjoyed it a great deal.
“Ryan” #133: I don’t really want to get into a slanging match with Reuters as I think it is a sideshow that distracts from the important issues. I don’t think they would have felt able even to publish my Foreign Policy piece, but I would have welcomed the chance to discuss it with them; instead they refused to publish anything and refused to discuss further without even seeing a proper draft of what I proposed.
One other interesting thing is that the day after my article on Hiro Muramoto was written [http://www.zenjournalist.com/2011/06/in-memory-of-hiro-muramoto/] the Asia editor, who was largely responsible for refusing to consider publication of #thaistory without seeing it, and also for many of the missteps in the debacle over Hiro, was demoted and replaced. I have no idea the extent to which these events are connected, but I am pretty sure they are not entirely unconnected.
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
Have just read cable 07BANGKOK5738 and items 7/8 on succession planning are quite revelatory for me in my ignorance.
It seems that at the very highest levels of power and influence any discussions of mortality are believed to be unpropitious to put it mildly and are therefore uncountenanced.
This would explain what so many fahrangs (inc Paul Handley) do not fully understand. If Tej Bunnags highly confidential request is to be accepted and understood at face value it behoves us to try to understand this cultural mindset.
That said; it is interesting that 65 years ago Prince Dhani could lecture on Malinowski’s socio-anthropological viewpoint :
‘‘A society which makes its tradition sacred has gained by it inestimable advantage of power and permanence. Such beliefs and practices, therefore, which put a halo of sanctity round tradition, will have a ‘survival value’ for the type of civilization in which they
have been evolved. . . . They were bought at an extravagant price, and are to be maintained at any cost.’’
Yet, in this modern age the court would appear to have reverted to what some would call primitive superstition.
Can the Democrats make it six in a row?
@Seh Fah (#15) said: “I’m also a little dubious about the validity of “agreements” reached between the militarily powerful (France at the time) and the militarily weak (Siam).”
You made a very interesting point. This is an issue of coercion and undue influence. And yes, according to international law, if one state forces another state to accept their agreement, or exercises undue influence to pressure other state to accept the agreement, the agreement itself would be deemed to be invalid.
There is strong evidence that Thailand was under considerable pressure to accept the French map. Thus, when France still exercised its sovereignty over Cambodia, Thailand may argue that it was forced to accept France’s map because of undue influence.
The problem is France later gave independence to Cambodia, thus Thailand would then no longer be under undue influence to raise its objection about the inaccuracy of the map. And it should have acted quickly to object this map after Cambodia regained sovereignty. If Thailand has chosen to do object quickly after sovereignty had been passed to Cambodia, the ICJ may accept the argument that the reason Thailand has not raised its objection for decades is because of undue influence.
Unfortunately, Thailand has not objected immediately after Cambodia gained independence. In fact it had not objected for many years. Thus ‘undue influence’ is probably no longer a very convincing issue at the time of the litigation (1961) 😉
2011 Thai election coverage
My father-in-law has had remunerative offers to “canvas” from the three major parties so far.
I am told he has turned them all down….
I’ll pay a visit to the local polling station on Sunday in the off chance that this is an historical event. However I suspect its “plus ca meme chose”
No mention on your website about Sean Crispins latest gossip? It’s been quite a week for gossip…
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/MF30Ae01.html
I hope you’re not self-censoring like the BKK Post did this morning! 🙂
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
Andrew M Marshall,
The ‘Foreign Policy’ article is a terrific distillation of your recent extended essays. Reading some of the sentences on paper (or online) – of things we all know, but have never been able to see written before – is frankly, jaw-dropping. My own view is that it will probably be these kinds of articles that have a more profound impact than the longer pieces.
Out of interest, do you think Reuters would have published the Foreign Policy piece? If not, does this disappoint you or have you sufficiently rationalised it?
Terrific work.
Can the Democrats make it six in a row?
@Seh Fah
Borders should never be a matter to kill people, slain them, behead them …
And YES, the border in the South has moved recently by the fact that most non-muslims left (to save their lives) or where slain !
Having a buddhist monk walking the streets on an early morning is an intolerable view for murderous intolerant people that should not be listened to …
PS: You can see some famous buddhist (Tha├п) temples in Malaysia, but -happily- peace prevails between the 2 countries because Malaysia is a democracy and HunSen is an autocrat !
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
“Tony”:
Actually, no, i have never doubted that Prachatai received a grant from this foundation. I also know that it received a grant from another German foundation.
What is out for lunch is your tinfoil hat speculation that it all is part of “concerted effort by a cabal of notorious Neo-Cons”. Laughable.
Do you know that Prachatai has actually been founded as a critical news website during Thaksin’s government to counter Thaksin’s pressure against the media?
Do you understand/know that the amount of money you are so fixated upon is less than the operating cost for a month of a half decent magazine here (excluding printing costs), and Prachatai has to stretch such sums for a lot longer?
If a “Neo-con cabal” is so poor that they have just 1.5 Million Baht left over for Thailand’s most important critical news website, than the last thing we all need to be scared off is that cabal. Do you understand this? A revolution needs a whole lot more money. And Prachatai could do with a whole lot more money – not to start a revolution, but to simply report news.
Keep on ranting, it is amusing indeed.
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
#128 try dealing with the facts that I presented. Attacking me personally belittles not just yourself as an intellectual, but everyone with a doctorate.
Fact is Prachatai is funded by the US government via a very notorious organization, NED known for engineering political destabilizations and regime change – in the interest of its big-business tied board members.
http://ned.org/where-we-work/asia/thailand
http://ned.org/about/board
Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Frank Carlucci (2002), Will Marshall, and Vin Weber? You don’t understand what’s wrong with taking money from people like this? This is satire? This is a fact you mean, a fact you can’t deal with so you call it satire. For the people being duped by NED and the outfits like Prachatai who perpetuate their nefarious agendas, it’s not “satire,” it is misleading and disingenuous and damaging.
Again, Prachatai doesn’t post this info on their site, because they do seem to have something to hide.
Freedom House, who Prachatai dutifully reports on often, is also lined with similar people who’s ideals are less than conducive with the stated purpose of both NED and Freedom House.
http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=10
Kenneth Adelman (former Thaksin lobbyist), Max M. Kampelman, Donald Rumsfeld (formally), Paula Dobriansky, Leonard Sussman, and Ellen Bork? These are people genuinely interested in “freedom” and “human rights?” You mean when they aren’t covering up atrocities in Iraqi and Cuban prisons? Or conducting rendition flights in their fraudulent “war on terror?”
These very same people, through their own private lobbying firms, Edelman, Baker Botts, Amsterdam & Peroff, Kobre & Kim, BGR, are propping up Thaksin Shinawatra, on record, along with his disingenuous, self-serving “red shirt” movement. Yes, it is HIS movement.
So go on Marshall/Walker, the two of you belittle the professions you undertake when you shrink from facts and instead attack the messenger. You accuse me of being “paid” and of having dubious credentials. My message, as I’ve said before, is self-evident. I challenge you to research it first, then comment on the facts, not my personality, not what the Thai army is also doing (a tactic we’ve all learned in the 5th grade), but why Prachatai and Thaksin are receiving aid from this nefarious cabal of foreign business interests and how we should perceive it as anything other than treason and neo-colonialism….
If I truly believed the Thai military was taking this money, and carrying out the West’s agenda, I would most certainly cover it. I have not seen any credible evidence of this, instead it seems very similar to Pakistan where the money is given in hopes that someone will at the right moment turn toward the US.
I suggest, Mr. Walker, you put down Marhsall’s unsubstantiated cables, and pick up Brookings Institution’s signed confession titled, “Which Path to Persia?” and see how very real this all is.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/05/which-path-to-persia-redux.html
Read it and prove me wrong – prove that you can be objective, and bury your pride and face the facts. On this, I would enjoy thoroughly being wrong.
Walker and Thitinan on the Thai election
For me if this election is clean and fair, I believe the Democrat will get less than 100 seats. Don’t forget that the Democrat has all kinds of power backing them, such as the central election commissioners and else wheres, the powerful elites that can change black into white, judges and attorney, those government officers that will take orders from above and many more. I observe during the past, the Democrat could only loose dearly when more than 70% of the voters turn out to vote. The Democrat could win the election only when the percentages of the vote were low. They can manipulate, unless the Thais realize its time to terminate them.
No matter how this election turn out, history has already been made. Those elites who control the scene from behind will be shocked by the will of the Thais to seek change for a better and a more modern Thailand because they know deeply in their hearts the real result of this election.
After 3 rd of July, changes will have to happen no matter how powerful all these power are. Even the Democrat can form the next government, the nuclear bomb has already been ignited. The more dirty the Democrat moves, the more powerful the red-shirt will becomes. The Red-shirt has already become the most power constitution in Thailand, much more powerful than all the military added together. This is a risky business.
Thailand’s invisible hand
The Bankok Post is turning its coat as well, and letting opinions through that it would have been afraid to publish a few weeks ago:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/244847/reform-police-and-judiciary
http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/244850/undesirable-scenarios-which-threaten-thai-democracy
I am filled with hope, that Thailand’s dark years are almost over.
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
Just to update you on the publication schedule, Part 3 will be published July 5 and Part 4 on July 11. Unlike previous self-imposed deadlines which I then spectacularly missed, these are designed to give me time to do the work properly and also eat and sleep. In the meantime, for those who have not seen it, I have summarized key insights from the cables in Foreign Policy magazine: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/06/29/red_shirts_and_rowdy_royals I’m not thrilled about the headline they gave it, but the story is rather shorter than the Mahabarata-length #thaistory and has hyperlinks to a number of cables.
Can the Democrats make it six in a row?
CT #11.
My mistake. I meant to say “not a unanimous decision”.
I’m also a little dubious about the validity of “agreements” reached between the militarily powerful (France at the time) and the militarily weak (Siam).
And now, I would value your views on the Mekong River border between Thailand and Laos, and my contention that the southern border should be moved three-and-a-half provinces north.
Can the Democrats make it six in a row?
@Seh Fah
Watersheds change over time with erosion. Rivers are known to change their entire course on rare occasion. There is more than one watershed near the temple. You can see the watershed using Google Earth, and there is a watershed that clearly puts the temple on Cambodia’s side. The temple issue was resolved in 1962 – the political energy wasted on saving face is better spent solving real problems.
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
Over at Prachatai, where Tony has posted his comment on evil, foreign scum funding that organization, a contributor had this comment, worth repeating here:
…$55,000 seems a drop when compared to the billions upon billions that the US has handed over to the Thai military and to arms of the Thai state that repress and torture. A recent example has been the training of Army snipers by US Marines. Why is that okay and considered valid while Prachatai is condemned for… providing information that is censored from much of the mainstream media? Isn’t there just a little too much ideological inconsistency and lack of weight and judgement in this so-called conspiracy of scum and traitors?
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
Tony, I love your parodies. Classic Not-The-Nation stuff (with the nice stylistic flourish of getting your Andrews mixed up, as if you are writing in a fit of passion). Very clever critique of the anti-globalist position. Be careful, however, as sometimes irony doesn’t translate well (as I have discovered several times) and some readers may think you are serious. But, rest assured, I don’t. AW
Andrew Marshall’s Thai Story
Tony 125
“a concerted effort by a cabal of notorious Neo-Cons and big business interests aligning behind Thaksin and his movement to destabilize and over throw Thailand”
As you say this information is in the public domain and comes as no real surprise. All entrepreneurial parties in Thailand have been in the BMW/Big Mac import business for 60 years now. Thanks for the documentation though. Thaksins lobbying activities in the west and his business links are well known. Andrew Marshalls compilations are more controversial because they are not to be openly discussed in polite society. It comes as no surprise that foreign investors want liberalization of Thai markets. Whether Thaksin can tease that away from nationalist xenophobia remains to be seen.
A growing middle class increasingly wants to have it’s Big Mac and eat it too. Time will tell if this is a healthy choice or if they should stick to the diet prescribed by their elders and betters. Like it or not this is modern democracy-freedom of choice.
My personal experience however is that many Thais although espousing freedom of choice often do not like to live with the consequences of their decisions and expect “Father” to make everything right again.
I expect it will be some time before this cultural mind set matures to catch up with political evolution.
Can the Democrats make it six in a row?
“I reckon Thaksin paid the French to put the temple on the wrong side of the border.”
I think you are right, in Thailand the Dems are always saying “It’s Thaksin’s fault”, just like in the USA the Dems always say “It’s Bushes fault”. It must be true, because how could so many people possibly be wrong so many times?