Would Australians agree that human lives are more important than Australian cattle?
Yes I do, that’s why I support the Australian government taking stern measures to deter people from undertaking dangerous sea voyages (that have killed hundreds of people in recent years), in order that they get to press their claims in front of people who may be far more deserving of asylum in Australia.
Migrants, refugees and illegal immigrants detained in Malaysia are now hoping that the ABC’s Four Corners programme will also investigate their predicament
If the scheme is implemented, one of 2 things will happen:
either
1)- people will continue making the journey by boat. For each such person, 1 will be sent to Malaysia, and 5 will be accepted by Australia. A net removal of four people from Malaysia. Given that you believe Malaysia is a shit-hole, you must be in agreement, no?
2) – no-one will risk making the boat journey. So Australia will not send ANYONE to Malaysia, removing, I presume, the source of your complaint. It will also have the benefit that people will stop drowning and/or getting their brains bashed out on rocky shores.
Let’s face it, the real reason people like you whinge about the proposed scheme is that it might just work, and Australia, shock horror, can implement an objective, humane refugee policy, not one based on money paid to people smugglers and by people rorting the system.
BTW: I also think it’s appalling that Australia imposes draconian prison sentences on poor Indonesian fisherman who have been duped into working on those boats, while the real ringmasters make sure they leave them before they get anywhere near Australian waters.
As a keen and regular reader of the New Mandala website (albeit a habitual non-commentator/contributor – for a range of reasons) I congratulate all those involved for your unstinting efforts to provide an invaluable and informed source of information about this sometimes alien kingdom – from another universe altogether: the ANU in far away Canberra. May you go from strength to strength.
Bystander#2: As a part-aboriginal Australian, may I point out that this used to be a pretty good country before all those damned boat people turned up in 1788.
has again ensure and reinforce ‘a circling the wagon’ mentality of the Than Shwe regime and every one within.
Given the facts on how many usurpers of this regime have so far met an end arguably nothing to be proud about as well as historical and recent facts of Bamar dominance surely make this SOS irrelevant.
Those at New Mandala that are in pursuit of their never ending desired fantasy of only seeking ‘A bitter end’ to this present regime should stop and really think about the price that the citizenry of Myanmar are being forced to pay without their collective consent and be ashamed.
Nick,
The UDD apologist tag comes from your coverage of the upcountry UDD rallies held in the months before last years April/May Bangkok rally. Your descriptions and photos showing everyone having just a great time while completely ignoring what was being said on the stage was without a doubt intentional and at no point did you ever make any attempt to describe what the UDD leaders were telling the “folks”.
I have no problem confining the discussion to Chuvit, godfather politicians, and police corruption but it is hard to do so without bringing in the UDD and the role of some of the political godfathers and their support (or tolerance) of it.
Chuvit is not a political godfather, he is a gangster, albeit a self professed reformed one. I do hope he gets enough party list votes to get himself into Parliament. Watching him and Nattuwat go at it should be highly entertaining.
Yes, I have read Giles take on the NGO’s. What I have seen is nothing more then attacks filled with the usual half truths and rhetoric typical of Giles and his ilk. Along this same vein, but discussing the political godfathers, why is it Giles and others did not go after Sanoh (along with several other political godfathers not in the coalition) and his lack of support (and in some cases outright suppression) of the UDD in Sa Kaeo?
I have personal knowledge of the UDD canvassers in Sa Kaeo back in April 2010 trying to drum up people to go to Bangkok (going rate was 1,500 baht but you had to give your ID card) and getting virtually no support and eventually being [politely] told quit wasting their time (rumor has it there was mild confrontation near the Thienthong estate outside Khao Chakan).
What I have always wanted to see was a map showing the geographical areas of influence for the godfathers superimposed over the areas of UDD activity. Would make an interesting and telling story.
If the PTP form the next government, I anxiously await your reports of how the “political empowerment, justice and system change” is going….
Or Thaksin returns to Thailand and is assassinated in the same way that Seh Daeng was assassinated, in broad daylight, in front of the world’s media, with a single sniper shot to the head. From the past few years, I think we’ve all learned that the people presently in control of Thailand will stop at nothing to retain their power and access to the money flow.
WLH
Your talking about a ‘cultural revolution’ that somehow may take a few lifetimes.
The vast majority of Thais are so brainwashed and conditioned into not seeing the backwardness and corrupt nature of their government, security forces, and business elites that what use is it having outsiders commenting on what goes on in the Land of the Free.
As a famous Thai deputy once said “I don’t respect FARANGS”. This attitude spells it out quite clearly as its only the money and technology these sorts of Thai are after from westerners, everything else in their eyes is substandard as its not Thai.
What’s more likely, Thaksin returning and reforming the military, or Thaksin returning because he makes a secret deal with the military (“I won’t touch appointments or succession, you don’t mess with the Constitution/Parliament”)?
My heart yearns for the former, but observations and history suggest the latter. It’s more democratic than the alternative, but hardly democracy.
Reform, if it comes, will probably go in this order: 1) electoral mandate 2) constitutional correction 3) monarchy demotion 4) educational improvement 5) business transparency 6) military dis-empowerment 7) cultural shift from corruption to accountability.
#25- “If you are lucky you may be able to get a job as a waiter in some fancy French restaurant like many of the Russian grandees did after their monarchy tanked. “
Working in a fancy French restaurant is certainly better the fate of Kulaks, the modern day Thai equivalents of your friends and relatives in Isaan.
[…] ““р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕вр╕╕р╕Чр╕Шр╣М”р╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╣Гр╕Ър╕кр╕▒р╣Ир╕Зр╣Ар╕Чр╕╖р╕нр╕Бр╕нр╕нр╕Бр╕Чр╕╡р╕зр╕╡ р╕вр╣Йр╕│р╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╣Ар╕ер╕╖р╕нр╕Бр╕Юр╕зр╕Бр╕ер╣Йр╕бр╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╣Ар╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕кр╕ар╕▓“, Manager/ASTV, June 15, translation by New Mandala […]
Don’t focus on the “monkey” because the “organ grinder” still makes all the important decisions in Burma. But his “control” is slowly eroding. Than Shwe’s initial nominee as Military Commander-in-Chief was not accepted by senior army commanders and his nomination of Tin Aung Myint Oo as first Vice President was almost rejected by military nominees at their parliament.
The nation-wide civil war will serve as a catalyst. When many young Burma Army officers are killed in combat to protect the dirty, corrupt business deals of Than Shwe and his cronies, a young Burma Army officer will kill Than Shwe. This is how freedom and democracy will be restored in Burma.
It won’t be pretty like the secenario preferred by ASSK/NLD.
Was there any confirmation of Hla Htay Win’s refusal to shoot the monks in 2007? There were even rumours of a mutiny with some army units marching on Rangoon. I bet his position over this issue of renewed conflict with the ceasefire groups is shared across the board among the army top brass from Than Shwe down the chain of command.
The Burmese junta’s war against the minorities has been on for weeks now but I have noticed no reports in the Bangkok Post so yesterday I did a search on their website.
For “Kachin” and found no hits, then on “Shan” (the Shan have been under attack a-while with gas attacks from SLORC this week) and one report came up, unrelated to the war.
A search for “Syria” however filled a page with references.
Just how complicit are the Thai government and media in the atrocities of the SLORC?
While it has been reported that Prime Minister Julia Gillard is an atheist, this report suggesting cows rate more highly than children in Australian government circles makes one wonder if she might perhaps be an undercover Hindu.
If so it may help to explain her continued military campaign against people in the predominantly Islamic Afghanistan?
Personal honesty with accountability must be a proven and repeatable pattern for every candidate and office holder. Either man or woman must have their feet held to the fire and the people have to be continually informed of the leader’s record.
The dear General left no cliche unturned in his sappy defense of the Thai elite. This is like watching the Czar and the Russian aristocracy collapse in real time! A corrupt, morally bankrupt, delusional and incredibly stupid leadership in its pathetic and last (I hope) feeble attempts to cling to power and turn back the clock. Dear General..it is you who should be watching out. I spent the last winter with my Thai friends and relatives in Isaan. They are pissed off. They not only know that the Lords of Bangkok have been ripping them off for years, they know how much right down to the last baht. They are not in the mood to be ‘polite’. If you are lucky you may be able to get a job as a waiter in some fancy French restaurant like many of the Russian grandees did after their monarchy tanked. They looked good in a uniform and so do you. Unfortunately that appears to be your only saleable talent.
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Australians, cattles, refugees and Four Corners
Would Australians agree that human lives are more important than Australian cattle?
Yes I do, that’s why I support the Australian government taking stern measures to deter people from undertaking dangerous sea voyages (that have killed hundreds of people in recent years), in order that they get to press their claims in front of people who may be far more deserving of asylum in Australia.
Migrants, refugees and illegal immigrants detained in Malaysia are now hoping that the ABC’s Four Corners programme will also investigate their predicament
If the scheme is implemented, one of 2 things will happen:
either
1)- people will continue making the journey by boat. For each such person, 1 will be sent to Malaysia, and 5 will be accepted by Australia. A net removal of four people from Malaysia. Given that you believe Malaysia is a shit-hole, you must be in agreement, no?
2) – no-one will risk making the boat journey. So Australia will not send ANYONE to Malaysia, removing, I presume, the source of your complaint. It will also have the benefit that people will stop drowning and/or getting their brains bashed out on rocky shores.
Let’s face it, the real reason people like you whinge about the proposed scheme is that it might just work, and Australia, shock horror, can implement an objective, humane refugee policy, not one based on money paid to people smugglers and by people rorting the system.
BTW: I also think it’s appalling that Australia imposes draconian prison sentences on poor Indonesian fisherman who have been duped into working on those boats, while the real ringmasters make sure they leave them before they get anywhere near Australian waters.
New Mandala turns five!
As a keen and regular reader of the New Mandala website (albeit a habitual non-commentator/contributor – for a range of reasons) I congratulate all those involved for your unstinting efforts to provide an invaluable and informed source of information about this sometimes alien kingdom – from another universe altogether: the ANU in far away Canberra. May you go from strength to strength.
Australians, cattles, refugees and Four Corners
Bystander#2: As a part-aboriginal Australian, may I point out that this used to be a pretty good country before all those damned boat people turned up in 1788.
Prayuth’s threat
How can the army pursue people for committing lese majeste when the monarchy has no majeste to lese?
War in Kachin State
To #1
Interesting take on the SOS of ‘the sky is falling’ fantasy. The west policy recently reaffirmed by McCain here:
http://www.mizzima.com/news/inside-burma/5368-us-sen-mccain-urges-concrete-steps-from-burmese-government.html
as well as repetition of useless, careless and empty threat, despite this:
http://www.mizzima.com/news/world/5392–un-secretary-general-says-burmas-problems-deep-seated.html
has again ensure and reinforce ‘a circling the wagon’ mentality of the Than Shwe regime and every one within.
Given the facts on how many usurpers of this regime have so far met an end arguably nothing to be proud about as well as historical and recent facts of Bamar dominance surely make this SOS irrelevant.
Those at New Mandala that are in pursuit of their never ending desired fantasy of only seeking ‘A bitter end’ to this present regime should stop and really think about the price that the citizenry of Myanmar are being forced to pay without their collective consent and be ashamed.
Chuvit on the streets
Nick,
The UDD apologist tag comes from your coverage of the upcountry UDD rallies held in the months before last years April/May Bangkok rally. Your descriptions and photos showing everyone having just a great time while completely ignoring what was being said on the stage was without a doubt intentional and at no point did you ever make any attempt to describe what the UDD leaders were telling the “folks”.
I have no problem confining the discussion to Chuvit, godfather politicians, and police corruption but it is hard to do so without bringing in the UDD and the role of some of the political godfathers and their support (or tolerance) of it.
Chuvit is not a political godfather, he is a gangster, albeit a self professed reformed one. I do hope he gets enough party list votes to get himself into Parliament. Watching him and Nattuwat go at it should be highly entertaining.
Yes, I have read Giles take on the NGO’s. What I have seen is nothing more then attacks filled with the usual half truths and rhetoric typical of Giles and his ilk. Along this same vein, but discussing the political godfathers, why is it Giles and others did not go after Sanoh (along with several other political godfathers not in the coalition) and his lack of support (and in some cases outright suppression) of the UDD in Sa Kaeo?
I have personal knowledge of the UDD canvassers in Sa Kaeo back in April 2010 trying to drum up people to go to Bangkok (going rate was 1,500 baht but you had to give your ID card) and getting virtually no support and eventually being [politely] told quit wasting their time (rumor has it there was mild confrontation near the Thienthong estate outside Khao Chakan).
What I have always wanted to see was a map showing the geographical areas of influence for the godfathers superimposed over the areas of UDD activity. Would make an interesting and telling story.
If the PTP form the next government, I anxiously await your reports of how the “political empowerment, justice and system change” is going….
Prayuth’s threat
Or Thaksin returns to Thailand and is assassinated in the same way that Seh Daeng was assassinated, in broad daylight, in front of the world’s media, with a single sniper shot to the head. From the past few years, I think we’ve all learned that the people presently in control of Thailand will stop at nothing to retain their power and access to the money flow.
Prayuth’s threat
WLH
Your talking about a ‘cultural revolution’ that somehow may take a few lifetimes.
The vast majority of Thais are so brainwashed and conditioned into not seeing the backwardness and corrupt nature of their government, security forces, and business elites that what use is it having outsiders commenting on what goes on in the Land of the Free.
As a famous Thai deputy once said “I don’t respect FARANGS”. This attitude spells it out quite clearly as its only the money and technology these sorts of Thai are after from westerners, everything else in their eyes is substandard as its not Thai.
Australians, cattles, refugees and Four Corners
You could be wrong. Check out the aborigines.
Prayuth’s threat
What’s more likely, Thaksin returning and reforming the military, or Thaksin returning because he makes a secret deal with the military (“I won’t touch appointments or succession, you don’t mess with the Constitution/Parliament”)?
My heart yearns for the former, but observations and history suggest the latter. It’s more democratic than the alternative, but hardly democracy.
Reform, if it comes, will probably go in this order: 1) electoral mandate 2) constitutional correction 3) monarchy demotion 4) educational improvement 5) business transparency 6) military dis-empowerment 7) cultural shift from corruption to accountability.
1-4 might happen in our lifetime.
Prayuth’s threat
#25-
“If you are lucky you may be able to get a job as a waiter in some fancy French restaurant like many of the Russian grandees did after their monarchy tanked. “
Working in a fancy French restaurant is certainly better the fate of Kulaks, the modern day Thai equivalents of your friends and relatives in Isaan.
New Mandala turns five!
Bravo NM! Excellent work keeping a supportive space for informed reflection and debate on key issues in SEA especially Thailand.
Prayuth’s threat
[…] ““р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕вр╕╕р╕Чр╕Шр╣М”р╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╣Гр╕Ър╕кр╕▒р╣Ир╕Зр╣Ар╕Чр╕╖р╕нр╕Бр╕нр╕нр╕Бр╕Чр╕╡р╕зр╕╡ р╕вр╣Йр╕│р╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╣Ар╕ер╕╖р╕нр╕Бр╕Юр╕зр╕Бр╕ер╣Йр╕бр╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╣Ар╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕кр╕ар╕▓“, Manager/ASTV, June 15, translation by New Mandala […]
War in Kachin State
Don’t focus on the “monkey” because the “organ grinder” still makes all the important decisions in Burma. But his “control” is slowly eroding. Than Shwe’s initial nominee as Military Commander-in-Chief was not accepted by senior army commanders and his nomination of Tin Aung Myint Oo as first Vice President was almost rejected by military nominees at their parliament.
The nation-wide civil war will serve as a catalyst. When many young Burma Army officers are killed in combat to protect the dirty, corrupt business deals of Than Shwe and his cronies, a young Burma Army officer will kill Than Shwe. This is how freedom and democracy will be restored in Burma.
It won’t be pretty like the secenario preferred by ASSK/NLD.
War in Kachin State
Was there any confirmation of Hla Htay Win’s refusal to shoot the monks in 2007? There were even rumours of a mutiny with some army units marching on Rangoon. I bet his position over this issue of renewed conflict with the ceasefire groups is shared across the board among the army top brass from Than Shwe down the chain of command.
War in Kachin State
The Burmese junta’s war against the minorities has been on for weeks now but I have noticed no reports in the Bangkok Post so yesterday I did a search on their website.
For “Kachin” and found no hits, then on “Shan” (the Shan have been under attack a-while with gas attacks from SLORC this week) and one report came up, unrelated to the war.
A search for “Syria” however filled a page with references.
Just how complicit are the Thai government and media in the atrocities of the SLORC?
Australians, cattles, refugees and Four Corners
While it has been reported that Prime Minister Julia Gillard is an atheist, this report suggesting cows rate more highly than children in Australian government circles makes one wonder if she might perhaps be an undercover Hindu.
If so it may help to explain her continued military campaign against people in the predominantly Islamic Afghanistan?
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
Personal honesty with accountability must be a proven and repeatable pattern for every candidate and office holder. Either man or woman must have their feet held to the fire and the people have to be continually informed of the leader’s record.
New Mandala turns five!
Congratulations to all involved, including those who take the time to comment. It has been a very valuable first 5 years.
Prayuth’s threat
The dear General left no cliche unturned in his sappy defense of the Thai elite. This is like watching the Czar and the Russian aristocracy collapse in real time! A corrupt, morally bankrupt, delusional and incredibly stupid leadership in its pathetic and last (I hope) feeble attempts to cling to power and turn back the clock. Dear General..it is you who should be watching out. I spent the last winter with my Thai friends and relatives in Isaan. They are pissed off. They not only know that the Lords of Bangkok have been ripping them off for years, they know how much right down to the last baht. They are not in the mood to be ‘polite’. If you are lucky you may be able to get a job as a waiter in some fancy French restaurant like many of the Russian grandees did after their monarchy tanked. They looked good in a uniform and so do you. Unfortunately that appears to be your only saleable talent.