I’m not sure that the Thai military care too much for ‘international solidarity’/opinion (re #12). Didn’t seem to stop them shooting Seh Daeng in front of international journalists. Nor did they seem too concerned about bowing to international superpower (USA and Russia) demands in the recent Victor Bout case, or of taking international concerns into view in boasting of refouling Hmong refugees to Laos.
Better I think to pressure AI and HRW to act with credibility and decency (not to mention in accordance with their mandate) – the Thai military might just feel embarrassed to expel these organisations from their country given that a Thai is currently heading up UNHRC…
@ # 11, There was a separate letter for Thailand-based scholars, circulated by the р╕кр╕▒р╕Щр╕Хр╕┤р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Шр╕гр╕гр╕б network [referred to and hyperlinked in the original post]. The point in circulating a letter specifically for scholars outside of Thailand was to signal international solidarity.
I don’t think Somsak will be forced out — largely because his earlier comments suggest he wants to stay and fight. He has been measured in his comments and has been preparing for this for years. Giles, on the other hand, was an open republican who knew he’d have neither a fair trial or much support from academics or the moderates. Somsak is a far better Rosa Parks than Giles. My fear is that Somsak will be killed and the crime “unsolved” with the police claiming various BS.
Interestingly, the Guardian now reports on the “black site(s)” in Thailand as though they were a simple matter of fact:
“Some of the information may have been obtained through torture. US officials waterboarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed 183 times at a CIA “black site” in Thailand during his first month of captivity.”
There is no point for Dr. Somsak Jeamteerasakul to put himself in jail because he should realize that in reality the Thai monarchy has absolute power.
With this tremendous imbalance of power, I would like to request the Thai monarchy to refrain from exercising power that is detrimental to Thailand. The country needs to move herself out of this destructive course by choosing a better creative solution. The current approach of eliminating people of different opinions one by one is harmful to Thailand.
Dr. Somsak Jeamteerasakul and other Thai political prisoners have simply desired to move Thailand towards a constitutional monarchy. Due to economic growth and education, the intention and desire is widespread among the Thai people. This structural change has nothing to do with Dr. Somsak. Hence, he should not be held responsible of what is natural development.
With economic development, it is natural that the Thai people would want progress toward political liberty where basic human dignity of its citizen is respected.
And yes, Somsak’s statements and method is quite refreshing. Though very scary for him, his family, his friends, and all those who may love and personally care for him.
While I don’t agree with all what he says, I do believe always in his right to speak without fear.
First of all, I would like to thank New Mandala for what they have done for Thailand during these dark years. What happened to Archan Somsak showed that those powerful figures who control this country will do anything to keep their power. They are willing to use all kind of dirty methods to get rid of people who think differently.
Thailand is passing through some of the darkest moment, whether it can cross through this difficult passage, depends mainly on lecturers like Archan Somsak, Archan Worajade and some brave-heart lecturers. I can only warn those powerful figures that if some of these famous lecturers are gunned down or disappeared, more and more innocent people will join hands and fight till their last stand. It is time for the military to go back to their barracks and serve the country in defense. If any commanders want to get involve in politic they should resign from their posts and become politicians. There are only one way out, give back real democracy to Thais.
I personally think the show of “solidarity” (force) and weaponry in BKK last week was an attempt to discourage any kind of internet/mobile phone uprising that ISOC have been watching on the evening TV this year .
Personally I found the sight of all those imported mortars, bazookas and heavy machine guns standing proudly to attention to protect the institution both salutary and profoundly moving. I wonder if the grunts are similarly motivated or equally inanimate?
But who or what are they protecting the institution from and why and by whom should it be considered necessary?
Can it be discussed rationally? Sadly I suspect not.
History shows that revolutions succeed when a significant proportion of the military swaps sides. That I think is the key question. Ultimately who will those weapons on display support?
-and if the shooting starts where will the U.S. government eventually align itself?
I really don’t think any socialist movement would seriously propose a republic. The worst might be a curtailment on perceived extra-constitutional powers of the monarchy/privy council ( a return to 1932 if considered necessary) and reform of the military and judicial system. (at the same time avoiding the development of a single political party dictatorship).
Unfortunately the lack of negotiation and intransigence can only lead to bloodshed and dictatorship of one side or the other.
It seems to me that the military consider both the Thai people and the Cambodian people to be identical enemies bent on destruction of Thai sovereignty.
Or at least they are comfortable with that view.
As Col Kurtz said in “Apocalypse Now”:
” You have to have men who are moral … and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling … without passion … without judgment … without judgment. Because it’s judgment that defeats us.”
Their greatest fear is judgement: judgement from an uncorrupted judiciary, open judgement by the Thai people and judgement by the world community. This is why military regimes have their own tribunals and affect constitutional amendments to retrospectively cover their actions. It also explains their current tightrope walk.
whilst I appreciate the sentiments of those who have signed on for this campaign, is there any evidence that such efforts hold any weight with the Thai military / security forces? Is it the most strategic way of supporting/protecting Ajarn Somsak and others?
My sense is that it might be better for NM to begin an online campaign pressuring Amnesty and Human Rights Watch to actually come out and do their (publically funded) jobs of protecting people in Somsak’s position. If these organisations actually mobilised their international support on issues like this one, it may have an impact on the Thai powers. Doesn’t NM have contacts with AI? How could we, NM readers, support NM in leading AI/HRW in such a campaign?
It is possible that the power that be may pressure A. Somsak to leave Thailand. They did it to Giles. Why not Somsak? If this happened, there will be another big loss to us.
Maratjp #6 Perhaps many small measured responses are better than one big outburst? In many cases its the drip drip drip which builds the pressure. As you can see the military and their partners are under extreme pressure at the moment.The end of their gravy train is in clear view.Their best scenario is to postpone the future.If they lose the as yet uncalled elections or win them under dubious circumstances it will only intensify the toxicity of their reputation.They are a lame one trick pony which is performing the only way it knows how.The blathering buffoonery of recent military actions shows the only route available to them.
SPDC relying on and indebted to China/DPRK thus can be defiant to the West—> free to be ruthless towards own citizenry —> Placating these pariah countries with projects—>Projects that further weaken citizenry resolve or expectation—>Free to be ruthless—> Relying even more on Uncle Wen & cousin Kim—>free to……
Myintsone Dam is but one of many similar past self serving projects and example of many more tragic to the citizenry yet to come, illustrated by the vicious cyles.
Breaking the above cycles require changing the self sustaining factors.
Ko Moe Aung
As usual you failed to address those factors, instead again engaged in recycled vitriol, name calling and false endearment that discourage others interested only in the citizenry welfare to come forward.
Calling monsters any more way does nothing to mitigate factors that create and promote the continuing existence of the monster itself.
Every leads that Nich. here @ New Mandala has given is a chance to focus on the betterment of the citizenry, woefully inadequate yet urgently needed basics: Education and health care.
Only a strong, healthy and educated citizenry can change the present tragic dynamics that favor the monster.
As one is presented with further degrading humanity within Myanmar here @ New Mandala solutions or path to solution need to be included in all advocacy.
The citizenry of Myanmar deserve beyond any personal gripes.
For Ajarn Somsak and others who have been fighting for democracy :
May God bless and keep you always
May your wishes all come true
May you always do for others
And let others do for you
May you build a ladder to the stars
And climb on every rung
May you stay forever young
Forever young, forever young
May you stay forever young.
May you grow up to be righteous
May you grow up to be true
May you always know the truth
And see the lights surrounding you
May you always be courageous
Stand upright and be strong
May you stay forever young
Forever young, forever young
May you stay forever young.
May your hands always be busy
May your feet always be swift
May you have a strong foundation
When the winds of changes shift
May your heart always be joyful
And may your song always be sung
May you stay forever young
Forever young, forever young
May you stay forever young.
Indeed. A mutiny within the army and widespread campaigns of civil disobedience among the civilian population. I believe it is the only realistic way open to the Thai people now.
Thaksin and PTT will turn out to be the same corn flakes in a different box. Abhisit couldnt lie straight in bed and we all know where his orders come from. Prayuth appears to be psychotic.
And Prem pulls the strings – but on behalf of whom? A man in hospital or the people who keep him there?
This quote “Yet despite all odds, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjaajiva, the Democrat leader, has one last chance to be remembered as a brave leader of Thailand at a very critical political juncture. He can be remembered as a courageous leader by upholding his promise to the people: the dissolution of parliament” is one of the most stupid sentence I read. I don’t know Achara Ashayagachat but does she really know her Thai fellow citizen. Abhisit can do what he want but he will only be remembered as “The Butcher of Bangkok”.
lack of rule of law and double standards are only a symptom of elite/military control of Thailand
elite/military control must be replaced by control by regularly elected democratic governments
in the absence of any military or elite leadership willing to lead the military back to their barracks and render them subservient to elected government, mutiny by rank and file soldiers seems the only realistic path to the future civilised Thailand
the sooner there is a significant confrontation between the mass of the Thai people and the military attempting a coup the sooner the soldiers will be challenged to refuse the generals orders to shoot their own people.
“…that post comes across like the fevered imaginings of an armchair warrior.”
Ha! I laughed when I read it.
I agree that people should themselves stand up instead of pushing others out into the open, but this is not the case with me in my opinion. I am not Thai plain and simple so I don’t feel it’s my place to speak out and judge Thais and Thailand in a forum other than one like this, read, I am assuming, mostly by Westerners. Somsak is Thai and has a certain credibility as a scholar that I simply don’t have and this is why I think what he has to say carries so much weight.
I also don’t think my comments were mere “fevered imaginings” as they express a sincere opinion in a public space, and quite controversial.
Having said this I must admit that I am weighing heavily expressing my opinion, perhaps a bit more measured, with my real name in an op ed. I’d guess I’d have to risk never be able to come back here again…
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Intimidation of Somsak Jeamteerasakul
I’m not sure that the Thai military care too much for ‘international solidarity’/opinion (re #12). Didn’t seem to stop them shooting Seh Daeng in front of international journalists. Nor did they seem too concerned about bowing to international superpower (USA and Russia) demands in the recent Victor Bout case, or of taking international concerns into view in boasting of refouling Hmong refugees to Laos.
Better I think to pressure AI and HRW to act with credibility and decency (not to mention in accordance with their mandate) – the Thai military might just feel embarrassed to expel these organisations from their country given that a Thai is currently heading up UNHRC…
Intimidation of Somsak Jeamteerasakul
@ # 11, There was a separate letter for Thailand-based scholars, circulated by the р╕кр╕▒р╕Щр╕Хр╕┤р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Шр╕гр╕гр╕б network [referred to and hyperlinked in the original post]. The point in circulating a letter specifically for scholars outside of Thailand was to signal international solidarity.
Somsak: “what I’m facing is scary”
Unlike Giles, he does not have any relative overseas.
Going to the jungle again is not a good idea either.
Can ANU secure him a position here? Any available position in CAP?
As a CAP admin, AW sure have some idea.
Somsak: “what I’m facing is scary”
Please allow me to contribute. Ajarn Somsak, at this stage, says that he has no plans to leave Thailand. And I quote:
“I always get homesick when I am away… I love this country… But we need a home country where… people are respected equally.”
It remains to be seen, what comes next for Ajarn Somsak and others like him. A warrant for his arrest has still yet to be issued…
Somsak: “what I’m facing is scary”
I don’t think Somsak will be forced out — largely because his earlier comments suggest he wants to stay and fight. He has been measured in his comments and has been preparing for this for years. Giles, on the other hand, was an open republican who knew he’d have neither a fair trial or much support from academics or the moderates. Somsak is a far better Rosa Parks than Giles. My fear is that Somsak will be killed and the crime “unsolved” with the police claiming various BS.
The Thai response to Wikileaks?
Interestingly, the Guardian now reports on the “black site(s)” in Thailand as though they were a simple matter of fact:
“Some of the information may have been obtained through torture. US officials waterboarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed 183 times at a CIA “black site” in Thailand during his first month of captivity.”
Is their existence now taken for granted?
Somsak: “what I’m facing is scary”
There is no point for Dr. Somsak Jeamteerasakul to put himself in jail because he should realize that in reality the Thai monarchy has absolute power.
With this tremendous imbalance of power, I would like to request the Thai monarchy to refrain from exercising power that is detrimental to Thailand. The country needs to move herself out of this destructive course by choosing a better creative solution. The current approach of eliminating people of different opinions one by one is harmful to Thailand.
Dr. Somsak Jeamteerasakul and other Thai political prisoners have simply desired to move Thailand towards a constitutional monarchy. Due to economic growth and education, the intention and desire is widespread among the Thai people. This structural change has nothing to do with Dr. Somsak. Hence, he should not be held responsible of what is natural development.
With economic development, it is natural that the Thai people would want progress toward political liberty where basic human dignity of its citizen is respected.
Intimidation of Somsak Jeamteerasakul
No Thai-based professor signed that letter?
Preposterous!
A definite disgrace.
And yes, Somsak’s statements and method is quite refreshing. Though very scary for him, his family, his friends, and all those who may love and personally care for him.
While I don’t agree with all what he says, I do believe always in his right to speak without fear.
Somsak: “what I’m facing is scary”
First of all, I would like to thank New Mandala for what they have done for Thailand during these dark years. What happened to Archan Somsak showed that those powerful figures who control this country will do anything to keep their power. They are willing to use all kind of dirty methods to get rid of people who think differently.
Thailand is passing through some of the darkest moment, whether it can cross through this difficult passage, depends mainly on lecturers like Archan Somsak, Archan Worajade and some brave-heart lecturers. I can only warn those powerful figures that if some of these famous lecturers are gunned down or disappeared, more and more innocent people will join hands and fight till their last stand. It is time for the military to go back to their barracks and serve the country in defense. If any commanders want to get involve in politic they should resign from their posts and become politicians. There are only one way out, give back real democracy to Thais.
Intimidation of Somsak Jeamteerasakul
I personally think the show of “solidarity” (force) and weaponry in BKK last week was an attempt to discourage any kind of internet/mobile phone uprising that ISOC have been watching on the evening TV this year .
Personally I found the sight of all those imported mortars, bazookas and heavy machine guns standing proudly to attention to protect the institution both salutary and profoundly moving. I wonder if the grunts are similarly motivated or equally inanimate?
But who or what are they protecting the institution from and why and by whom should it be considered necessary?
Can it be discussed rationally? Sadly I suspect not.
History shows that revolutions succeed when a significant proportion of the military swaps sides. That I think is the key question. Ultimately who will those weapons on display support?
-and if the shooting starts where will the U.S. government eventually align itself?
I really don’t think any socialist movement would seriously propose a republic. The worst might be a curtailment on perceived extra-constitutional powers of the monarchy/privy council ( a return to 1932 if considered necessary) and reform of the military and judicial system. (at the same time avoiding the development of a single political party dictatorship).
Unfortunately the lack of negotiation and intransigence can only lead to bloodshed and dictatorship of one side or the other.
It seems to me that the military consider both the Thai people and the Cambodian people to be identical enemies bent on destruction of Thai sovereignty.
Or at least they are comfortable with that view.
As Col Kurtz said in “Apocalypse Now”:
” You have to have men who are moral … and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling … without passion … without judgment … without judgment. Because it’s judgment that defeats us.”
Their greatest fear is judgement: judgement from an uncorrupted judiciary, open judgement by the Thai people and judgement by the world community. This is why military regimes have their own tribunals and affect constitutional amendments to retrospectively cover their actions. It also explains their current tightrope walk.
Intimidation of Somsak Jeamteerasakul
whilst I appreciate the sentiments of those who have signed on for this campaign, is there any evidence that such efforts hold any weight with the Thai military / security forces? Is it the most strategic way of supporting/protecting Ajarn Somsak and others?
My sense is that it might be better for NM to begin an online campaign pressuring Amnesty and Human Rights Watch to actually come out and do their (publically funded) jobs of protecting people in Somsak’s position. If these organisations actually mobilised their international support on issues like this one, it may have an impact on the Thai powers. Doesn’t NM have contacts with AI? How could we, NM readers, support NM in leading AI/HRW in such a campaign?
Somsak: “what I’m facing is scary”
It is possible that the power that be may pressure A. Somsak to leave Thailand. They did it to Giles. Why not Somsak? If this happened, there will be another big loss to us.
How long do we have to fight for this?
Intimidation of Somsak Jeamteerasakul
Maratjp #6 Perhaps many small measured responses are better than one big outburst? In many cases its the drip drip drip which builds the pressure. As you can see the military and their partners are under extreme pressure at the moment.The end of their gravy train is in clear view.Their best scenario is to postpone the future.If they lose the as yet uncalled elections or win them under dubious circumstances it will only intensify the toxicity of their reputation.They are a lame one trick pony which is performing the only way it knows how.The blathering buffoonery of recent military actions shows the only route available to them.
New war in Kachin State?
SPDC relying on and indebted to China/DPRK thus can be defiant to the West—> free to be ruthless towards own citizenry —> Placating these pariah countries with projects—>Projects that further weaken citizenry resolve or expectation—>Free to be ruthless—> Relying even more on Uncle Wen & cousin Kim—>free to……
Myintsone Dam is but one of many similar past self serving projects and example of many more tragic to the citizenry yet to come, illustrated by the vicious cyles.
Breaking the above cycles require changing the self sustaining factors.
Ko Moe Aung
As usual you failed to address those factors, instead again engaged in recycled vitriol, name calling and false endearment that discourage others interested only in the citizenry welfare to come forward.
Calling monsters any more way does nothing to mitigate factors that create and promote the continuing existence of the monster itself.
Every leads that Nich. here @ New Mandala has given is a chance to focus on the betterment of the citizenry, woefully inadequate yet urgently needed basics: Education and health care.
Only a strong, healthy and educated citizenry can change the present tragic dynamics that favor the monster.
As one is presented with further degrading humanity within Myanmar here @ New Mandala solutions or path to solution need to be included in all advocacy.
The citizenry of Myanmar deserve beyond any personal gripes.
Intimidation of Somsak Jeamteerasakul
For Ajarn Somsak and others who have been fighting for democracy :
May God bless and keep you always
May your wishes all come true
May you always do for others
And let others do for you
May you build a ladder to the stars
And climb on every rung
May you stay forever young
Forever young, forever young
May you stay forever young.
May you grow up to be righteous
May you grow up to be true
May you always know the truth
And see the lights surrounding you
May you always be courageous
Stand upright and be strong
May you stay forever young
Forever young, forever young
May you stay forever young.
May your hands always be busy
May your feet always be swift
May you have a strong foundation
When the winds of changes shift
May your heart always be joyful
And may your song always be sung
May you stay forever young
Forever young, forever young
May you stay forever young.
Forever Young by Bob Dylan
Abhisit’s last chance
@David Brown #3:
Indeed. A mutiny within the army and widespread campaigns of civil disobedience among the civilian population. I believe it is the only realistic way open to the Thai people now.
Thaksin and PTT will turn out to be the same corn flakes in a different box. Abhisit couldnt lie straight in bed and we all know where his orders come from. Prayuth appears to be psychotic.
And Prem pulls the strings – but on behalf of whom? A man in hospital or the people who keep him there?
Abhisit’s last chance
This quote “Yet despite all odds, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjaajiva, the Democrat leader, has one last chance to be remembered as a brave leader of Thailand at a very critical political juncture. He can be remembered as a courageous leader by upholding his promise to the people: the dissolution of parliament” is one of the most stupid sentence I read. I don’t know Achara Ashayagachat but does she really know her Thai fellow citizen. Abhisit can do what he want but he will only be remembered as “The Butcher of Bangkok”.
Abhisit’s last chance
lack of rule of law and double standards are only a symptom of elite/military control of Thailand
elite/military control must be replaced by control by regularly elected democratic governments
in the absence of any military or elite leadership willing to lead the military back to their barracks and render them subservient to elected government, mutiny by rank and file soldiers seems the only realistic path to the future civilised Thailand
the sooner there is a significant confrontation between the mass of the Thai people and the military attempting a coup the sooner the soldiers will be challenged to refuse the generals orders to shoot their own people.
Intimidation of Somsak Jeamteerasakul
Laoguy,
“…that post comes across like the fevered imaginings of an armchair warrior.”
Ha! I laughed when I read it.
I agree that people should themselves stand up instead of pushing others out into the open, but this is not the case with me in my opinion. I am not Thai plain and simple so I don’t feel it’s my place to speak out and judge Thais and Thailand in a forum other than one like this, read, I am assuming, mostly by Westerners. Somsak is Thai and has a certain credibility as a scholar that I simply don’t have and this is why I think what he has to say carries so much weight.
I also don’t think my comments were mere “fevered imaginings” as they express a sincere opinion in a public space, and quite controversial.
Having said this I must admit that I am weighing heavily expressing my opinion, perhaps a bit more measured, with my real name in an op ed. I’d guess I’d have to risk never be able to come back here again…
I’ll think about what you said…
Abhisit’s last chance
“the desire to restore the rule of law and eliminate double standards is felt by foreigners but deeply held by Thais”
In my personal experience (and that’s all it is – certainly not scientific), this is the precise opposite of the truth.