“2) that the root cause of Thai prostitution is the female dowry system.”
Sorry, Chris, but it is men who are supposed to pay dowry in Thailand, not women.
I believe that the root causes of mass prostitution here in Thailand have multiple factors, beginning from the end of the slavery/serf system in Thailand, the immigration of many single Chinese men, the rise of the first middle classes in the beginning of the 20th century, and many conductive cultural factors such as widespread polygamy, changes in village culture, economical factors, etc.
The impact of the Indochina wars and Thailand as R&R, and subsequent tourism promotion is also not to be underestimated in the development of modern prostitution in Thailand.
A good report – as far as it goes. However fails to mention :
1) that “farang” prostitution is a mere 10% of most Thai prostitution, according just about every reputable study.
And :
2) that the root cause of Thai prostitution is the female dowry system.
3) a good report because it highlights Thailand’s grossly obscene regional inequalities.
“I do agree with John #3 that only revolution is the answer. As long as the “black hole” is still there, it “sucks” everything that comes in the way to keep control. But how soon? Thailand needs new blood, new thinking as well as new education.”
New blood would suggest some greater degree of cross-breeding. This seems highly unlikely when the whole shirt phenomenon is just the latest manifestation of very long-term political incest amongst Thailand’s powergrabbing classes. Revolution usually equates to “sit on this and swivel” for the vast majority.
John Francis Lee #2 :
re –
“You’ll have to ask Julian Assange when more cables will be released… he’s made himself the official gatekeeper for all the material”.
I’m not sure you are correct that Assange is THE gatekeeper.
Assange – and others, such as John Pilger – have said, often – that there are “insurances” files, i.e. copies of WikiLeaks, ready to be released in case anything untoward happens to Assange.
The most interesting reports about Thailand are perhaps in these “insurance” files.
Given the knife-edge Thailand is on, these could be explosive indeed.
Nich: “Does anybody know when new tranches are likely to be forthcoming?”
Not when but that they’re coming is sure. I attended a talk given in Chiang Mai by Reuters’ Andrew Marshall last week. He announced that he has all the Wikileaks BKK cables and is currently preparing at least one article using them as reference.
Does anybody know when new tranches are likely to be forthcoming?
The answer is no, but it’s certainly fascinating. Because of the source you can guess that the contents are fairly accurate. This is especially true because it is the conspirators, the US embassy and its spooks, talking behind the backs of local politicians and aristocracy.
I suspect it will not be pleasant reading for the extremes at both ends of the spectrum who are going to be seen as quite devious. Guessing again, figures like Prem and Anand will come out of it with enhanced reputations, while politicians and some in the palace will not be done any favours at all.
Of course there will be some who say we already knew this or that, but for me, so far it’s new information.
You’ll have to ask Julian Assange when more cables will be released… he’s made himself the official gatekeeper for all the material that, for instance, Bradley Manning has been imprisoned for allegedly releasing.
I believe Assange has released just over 1% of what was given to him to be publicized.
There is still a lag of ethics on the part of Burmese journalists, but still more so on the part of authorities concerned by purposely leaking out adverse news for those they do not favor like Dunkley, but prohibiting the newsmen to publish news for those they wish to protect like the movie actress Htet Htet Moe Oo. It shows that there is lack of ethics, morality and authoritarianism in Burma, a long way from the established democratic practice.
the issue for Wikileaks seems to be finding suitable “mainstream” media that are willing and able to manage and publish the material
Wikileaks wants to be reasonably covered from being accused of causing personal casualties while ensuring broadcast of the cables to benefit democratic and human rights ideals
in the case of Thailand its an interesting question which media could Wikileaks negotiate with?
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for the info, I hadn’t seen it yet. I guess I’m more interested to see what happens, if anything, with the news journals – the other 150 that still have to go through censorship – because that’s where the sensitive information is.
I have heard rumours that there will be a “serious change” in the media industry in the next month after the new government is sworn in.
DVB reported yesterday that
Nearly 200 of Burma’s 350-odd journals and magazines will be subject to the easing of stringent laws surrounding publication, which is expected to take effect from the beginning of April when the new government is officially sworn in.
A couple of links to other recent “Bangkok Noir” events:
The FCCT launch of the “Bangkok Noir” anthology of noir short stories set in Bangkok by John Burdett, Pico Iyer, Christopher G. Moore, Timothy Hallinan, Dean Barrett, Eric Stone, Stephen Leather, Colin Cotterill, Tew Bunnag, Alex Kerr, Vasit Dejkunjorn and Colin Piprell…
Christopher Moore presents a fine encomium, and essay, here on Cole’s art !
With typical modesty, Christopher does not refer to his own many well-crafted novels, fictional explorations of the “noir” under-side of expat life in Thailand, and the swirling mass of Thai symbiotes living off of, preying on, that night-life, like moths fluttering around, beating their wings against, beacons of perceived money and opportunity, often out of desperation and hopelessness.
Moore’s literary work, which I think has received much less world-wide attention than it deserves, makes a wonderful “parallel read” to such “classic” works exploring the economic and cultural reality of Issarn, from the Thai point-of-view, such as those by noted Thai author Pira Sudharn.
In my opinion, Christopher’s work transcends the narrow genre of “Bangkok Studly,” and explores the same universals of the human condition that other great contemporary writers of post-modern fiction explore, such as Jose Saramago.
Can confirm that Ross Dunkley just got bail in the past hour.
There were a lot of question marks over how the woman’s statement to police could be published in local media (not only Snap Shot, but also Myanmar News Week) when the trial was yet to get underway. I heard one editor defend it by saying: “Well, the censorship board approved the article so we were within our rights to publish it.”
At the least I would say that it shows the lack of training available for journalists here. Unfortunately, there are few in-country development programs and I would suggest it’s certainly something foreign donors and NGOs should look at more closely and I know at least a few of them are.
I have heard rumours that there will be a “serious change” in the media industry in the next month after the new government is sworn in. Whether it happens now or not, there is a feeling that the industry is moving towards self censorship. It’s going to be a real wake up call for many journalists and editors, as I think the censorship board is acting partly as a safety net not only in terms of legal issues (defamation, contempt etc) but also factual errors.
I do agree with John #3 that only revolution is the answer. As long as the “black hole” is still there, it “sucks” everything that comes in the way to keep control. But how soon? Thailand needs new blood, new thinking as well as new education.
While we have not yet crippled censorship in Thailand, just a few years ago, no Thai media carried any censorship news. Lèse majesté prosecutions are today’s secret news but gradually they will find a voice because the public wants to know. Exposing govt censorship to the light may help to put an end to its excesses.
“Regardless of who wins this election (and forms the govt), I will still be the Army chief”, so says Army chief Prayuth Chan-ocha. This statement speaks volumes and everyone who follows Thai politics knows what that means.
So some of you who still think election is around the corner and argue about who will win or lose, you’d better listen to this clip below:
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A beginners’ guide to Bangkok Noir
“chris beale”:
“2) that the root cause of Thai prostitution is the female dowry system.”
Sorry, Chris, but it is men who are supposed to pay dowry in Thailand, not women.
I believe that the root causes of mass prostitution here in Thailand have multiple factors, beginning from the end of the slavery/serf system in Thailand, the immigration of many single Chinese men, the rise of the first middle classes in the beginning of the 20th century, and many conductive cultural factors such as widespread polygamy, changes in village culture, economical factors, etc.
The impact of the Indochina wars and Thailand as R&R, and subsequent tourism promotion is also not to be underestimated in the development of modern prostitution in Thailand.
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
I’m really curious, does the Japanese or the Saudi royalty felt at threat about wikileak like the Thai?
A beginners’ guide to Bangkok Noir
A good report – as far as it goes. However fails to mention :
1) that “farang” prostitution is a mere 10% of most Thai prostitution, according just about every reputable study.
And :
2) that the root cause of Thai prostitution is the female dowry system.
3) a good report because it highlights Thailand’s grossly obscene regional inequalities.
Is an election the answer for Thailand?
“I do agree with John #3 that only revolution is the answer. As long as the “black hole” is still there, it “sucks” everything that comes in the way to keep control. But how soon? Thailand needs new blood, new thinking as well as new education.”
New blood would suggest some greater degree of cross-breeding. This seems highly unlikely when the whole shirt phenomenon is just the latest manifestation of very long-term political incest amongst Thailand’s powergrabbing classes. Revolution usually equates to “sit on this and swivel” for the vast majority.
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
John Francis Lee #2 :
re –
“You’ll have to ask Julian Assange when more cables will be released… he’s made himself the official gatekeeper for all the material”.
I’m not sure you are correct that Assange is THE gatekeeper.
Assange – and others, such as John Pilger – have said, often – that there are “insurances” files, i.e. copies of WikiLeaks, ready to be released in case anything untoward happens to Assange.
The most interesting reports about Thailand are perhaps in these “insurance” files.
Given the knife-edge Thailand is on, these could be explosive indeed.
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
Nich: “Does anybody know when new tranches are likely to be forthcoming?”
Not when but that they’re coming is sure. I attended a talk given in Chiang Mai by Reuters’ Andrew Marshall last week. He announced that he has all the Wikileaks BKK cables and is currently preparing at least one article using them as reference.
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
Does anybody know when new tranches are likely to be forthcoming?
The answer is no, but it’s certainly fascinating. Because of the source you can guess that the contents are fairly accurate. This is especially true because it is the conspirators, the US embassy and its spooks, talking behind the backs of local politicians and aristocracy.
I suspect it will not be pleasant reading for the extremes at both ends of the spectrum who are going to be seen as quite devious. Guessing again, figures like Prem and Anand will come out of it with enhanced reputations, while politicians and some in the palace will not be done any favours at all.
Of course there will be some who say we already knew this or that, but for me, so far it’s new information.
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
You’ll have to ask Julian Assange when more cables will be released… he’s made himself the official gatekeeper for all the material that, for instance, Bradley Manning has been imprisoned for allegedly releasing.
I believe Assange has released just over 1% of what was given to him to be publicized.
Taking issue with reportage on Dunkley case
There is still a lag of ethics on the part of Burmese journalists, but still more so on the part of authorities concerned by purposely leaking out adverse news for those they do not favor like Dunkley, but prohibiting the newsmen to publish news for those they wish to protect like the movie actress Htet Htet Moe Oo. It shows that there is lack of ethics, morality and authoritarianism in Burma, a long way from the established democratic practice.
Thai monarchy and Wikileaks
the issue for Wikileaks seems to be finding suitable “mainstream” media that are willing and able to manage and publish the material
Wikileaks wants to be reasonably covered from being accused of causing personal casualties while ensuring broadcast of the cables to benefit democratic and human rights ideals
in the case of Thailand its an interesting question which media could Wikileaks negotiate with?
how about New Mandala stepping up to the plate?
do we need to offer to fund some organisation?
Prachatai?……
Taking issue with reportage on Dunkley case
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for the info, I hadn’t seen it yet. I guess I’m more interested to see what happens, if anything, with the news journals – the other 150 that still have to go through censorship – because that’s where the sensitive information is.
A beginners’ guide to Bangkok Noir
Link to another interesting post on the recent anthology, BANGKOK NOIR, that was published in Bangkok recently:
http://www.simandan.com/?p=2395
Taking issue with reportage on Dunkley case
DVB reported yesterday that
A beginners’ guide to Bangkok Noir
A couple of links to other recent “Bangkok Noir” events:
The FCCT launch of the “Bangkok Noir” anthology of noir short stories set in Bangkok by John Burdett, Pico Iyer, Christopher G. Moore, Timothy Hallinan, Dean Barrett, Eric Stone, Stephen Leather, Colin Cotterill, Tew Bunnag, Alex Kerr, Vasit Dejkunjorn and Colin Piprell…
http://www.internationalcrimeauthors.com/?p=1475
http://detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/2011/03/from-city-of-angels-bangkok-noir.html
And some links to the recent opening and book launch for Ralf Tooten’s photo essay book titled “Bangkok Noir….
http://bk.asia-city.com/events/article/capture-nighttime-activities-ralf-tooten-bangkok-noir
A beginners’ guide to Bangkok Noir
Christopher Moore presents a fine encomium, and essay, here on Cole’s art !
With typical modesty, Christopher does not refer to his own many well-crafted novels, fictional explorations of the “noir” under-side of expat life in Thailand, and the swirling mass of Thai symbiotes living off of, preying on, that night-life, like moths fluttering around, beating their wings against, beacons of perceived money and opportunity, often out of desperation and hopelessness.
Moore’s literary work, which I think has received much less world-wide attention than it deserves, makes a wonderful “parallel read” to such “classic” works exploring the economic and cultural reality of Issarn, from the Thai point-of-view, such as those by noted Thai author Pira Sudharn.
In my opinion, Christopher’s work transcends the narrow genre of “Bangkok Studly,” and explores the same universals of the human condition that other great contemporary writers of post-modern fiction explore, such as Jose Saramago.
Bill Woodruff, Chiang Mai
Taking issue with reportage on Dunkley case
Can confirm that Ross Dunkley just got bail in the past hour.
There were a lot of question marks over how the woman’s statement to police could be published in local media (not only Snap Shot, but also Myanmar News Week) when the trial was yet to get underway. I heard one editor defend it by saying: “Well, the censorship board approved the article so we were within our rights to publish it.”
At the least I would say that it shows the lack of training available for journalists here. Unfortunately, there are few in-country development programs and I would suggest it’s certainly something foreign donors and NGOs should look at more closely and I know at least a few of them are.
I have heard rumours that there will be a “serious change” in the media industry in the next month after the new government is sworn in. Whether it happens now or not, there is a feeling that the industry is moving towards self censorship. It’s going to be a real wake up call for many journalists and editors, as I think the censorship board is acting partly as a safety net not only in terms of legal issues (defamation, contempt etc) but also factual errors.
Is an election the answer for Thailand?
I do agree with John #3 that only revolution is the answer. As long as the “black hole” is still there, it “sucks” everything that comes in the way to keep control. But how soon? Thailand needs new blood, new thinking as well as new education.
Reporting on lese majeste from Bangkok
You still have hope in Bangkok Post? I read the paper since I was a wee lad, and I never had faith in it. But at least it’s Not The Nation. 😀
Reporting on lese majeste from Bangkok
While we have not yet crippled censorship in Thailand, just a few years ago, no Thai media carried any censorship news. Lèse majesté prosecutions are today’s secret news but gradually they will find a voice because the public wants to know. Exposing govt censorship to the light may help to put an end to its excesses.
A watching game
“Regardless of who wins this election (and forms the govt), I will still be the Army chief”, so says Army chief Prayuth Chan-ocha. This statement speaks volumes and everyone who follows Thai politics knows what that means.
So some of you who still think election is around the corner and argue about who will win or lose, you’d better listen to this clip below:
http://www.asiaupdate.tv/2011/03/20699.html
Pls note the tv station has mistakenly given the photo of Defense Minister Prawit, instead of Prayuth.