“Oh and we are talking in USD here, not ZWD.” – Tarrin
Perhaps I was not more direct Tarrin . . . at the rate the US Federal Reserve is printing US dollars, and if (dollar printing) this carries on indefinitely . . . get it yet?
There are many billionaire certainly, but there are not many to be trillionaire. Moreover, I think there are several other people in the list, the king just happen to be from this poor SEA country certainly raise some question. Oh and we are talking in USD here, not ZWD.
“Though King Bhumibol will almost certainly not live long enough to attain $1 trillion, the growth of potential of Thailand and Southeast Asia is such that it would not be unthinkable that an heir to the throne (the 59-year old Prince Vajiralongkorn or a further descendant) could eventually reach that point.”
I still could remember a time when $ millionaires were something. Then before long $ billionaires were the something. With the rate of monetary expansion going on . . . led by the US dollar . . . a $ trillionaire in my lifetime may be near . . . while nearly every other man could be a $ millionaire.
Why single out the Thai monarch? Zimbabwe already has trillionaires a plenty.
c15 “If you attack me like that, then it confirms my observation all along that New Mandala is for bunch of retards and never respect other people’s views.”
Khun Tossaporn – one person was a little harsh in his choice of language in disagreeing with you. That hardly qualifies as confirmation of your own very harshly-worded and insulting observation does it? If you’re predisposed to dismiss disagreement with you as just р╕Юр╕зр╕Бр╕Эр╕гр╕▒р╣Ир╕Зр╕нр╕зр╕Фр╕Фр╕╡р╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕лр╕ер╕▓р╕в (“western conceit/arrogance” – a fair translation?), then I suggest you need to look at your own respect for other people’s views.
Tossaporn Sirak, you’ll notice you’re not being censored. You can even express your views to me personally (no need to provide sources in conversation…), let’s go for a mocha! u4725949!
(This would have otherwise been scrawled on a toilet wall…)
I do think some sympathy and consideration should be shown towards Tossapron Sirak’s post.
He clearly comes from a very different culture with a name like that – and I think it is worthy of respect.
We have to always bear in mind that here in Australia we have an extremely adversarial, very direct, confrontational – albeit highly productive – culture.
Even Europeans find it something of an adjustment.
I certainly have sympathy for any Asian who does.
Tossaporn (#16): Certainly you “also have (your) right to believe or trust the information (you) deem credible.” How about sharing the source of the information with others? I fear you may not be getting a proper education at ANU if you haven’t learned the basic academic exercise of citation.
Instead of blatantly deny other people’s point of view, maybe its better for you to actually think about it, you know, like how good student suppose to do.
Furthermore, what do you think about after reading р╕Юр╕гр╕Ъ?? still believe in the propaganda?
It has been scientifically proven that the less you know, the more you think you know.
The King doesn’t have control of the Royal Crown Property Bureau. It is the Ministry of Finance that direct all the investments and transactions. (Tossaporn – 3)
Logically, then, with this distance in mind, the CPB should be automatically opening their books to public scrutiny. Do they?
р╕Эр╕гр╕▒р╣Ир╕Зр╣Вр╕Зр╣Ир╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕лр╕ер╕▓р╕в believe what you want to believe. I also have my right to believe or trust the information I deem credible.
Simon Iffe@14, I’m not your son and probably older and more responsible than you.
“his methods and moives have been well documented by others and are surely beyond doubt” – who and where?
I am getting (I hope) a proper education at ANU right now. If you attack me like that, then it confirms my observation all along that New Mandala is for bunch of retards and never respect other people’s views. Is this freedom of expression you people so cherish? р╕Юр╕зр╕Бр╕Эр╕гр╕▒р╣Ир╕Зр╕нр╕зр╕Фр╕Фр╕╡р╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕лр╕ер╕▓р╕в
Paul@13, Thank for the tip. I will look into р╕Юр╕гр╕Ъ. you’ve suggested and study it more. You should too, Nich.
“And don’t imply that my King attained his wealth through sinister means or it was his own personal greed.
Oh please, his methods and moives have been well documented by others and are surely beyond doubt. What you really mean is that what Nich says conflicts wit the fairytale you happen to believe.
Get a life and get an education. A proper one.
“The King doesn’t have control of the Royal Crown Property Bureau. It is the Ministry of Finance that direct all the investments and transactions. Blame them for the business success of the Royal Crown Property, not the King.”
Oh please. Whatever the King says goes, which is why we all understand that despite his comments to the contrary, he does not want the lese majeste legislation repealed.
Head out of the clouds son, wake up and smell the coffee.
That the CPB is under control of the finance minister is a very blunt lie.
If you can read Thai, look up “р╕Юр╕гр╕Ъ р╕Ир╕▒р╕Фр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Ър╕╡р╕вр╕Ър╕Чр╕гр╕▒р╕Юр╕вр╣Мр╕кр╕┤р╕Щр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕йр╕▒р╕Хр╕гр╕┤р╕вр╣М 2491”. It states clearly that all earnings from the CPB is to be spent solely according to the King’s wish.
(I would provide a link, but for some reason I can’t open any of the available links right now, but it’s not that difficult to find)
The Finance Minister also hardly matters. The whole committee, except the FM, is to be appointed by the King alone. The FM is just there to take the criticism while all decisions is effectively decided by the King.
Determining Royal Wealth is based on this notion. If you have absolute control of it, then you effectively own it, regardless of who is actually the real owner.
Mind you, if you have money but can’t touch it, and some complete stranger is using your money as he wills it, it would be plain absurd. Sadly that is precisely the case here.
“#7 The Revolution will come – make no mistake about this !”
Stating the obvious. But unless I am mistaken, it will be subverted by those who treat this country as a place to make a very modest investment and make a massive return. In effect, more slavery.
Nich, this is why posting comments on this website is frustrating and waste of time. Everytime you have a different information or views other than the common views of the “regulars” on this site, you always get attacked by them.
I’m not an academic, just a student. That is why I ask you, as academic to do a research on this subject. Because this is the information I know. Your “regulars” may not like it, but I’m sure you are fair enough to take some criticism.
Tossaporn Sirak argues that the author and Nich need to do their research and get the facts right. However, Tossaporn Sirak does not do the same and simply repeats government information that tries to fudge the truth on who controls and owns what.
Even if you don’t like PPT’s argument,look through the links and information. It shows that Tossaporn Sirak is engaging in a plagiarism of other royalists without adding a single piece of evidence.
Thanks for bringing that up. That is why Nich should do more research on the subject like a good academic/expert(?) on Thailand so that people can get the facts right.
For those who are looking for an education in how the Crown Property Bureau operates then Porphant Ouyyanont’s study is the best (perhaps the only…) place to start. There are basically no other peer reviewed contributions on the topic. Porphant states right up front that (emphasis added):
This article examines the role and performance of Thailand’s Crown Property Bureau (CPB) in and after the 1997 Asian economic crisis. In particular it looks at how the Bureau emerged from the crisis relatively successfully, despite the severity of the problems it faced. The CPB is the Thai monarchy’s investment arm.
At some stage I expect there will be much more scholarly scrutiny of CPB activities but we may have to wait some years before such work becomes a regular part of the economic and social scientific terrain. Of course we could, in the meantime, and channeling Dr Sumet Tantivejkul, just run with the “р╕Эр╕гр╕▒р╣Ир╕Зр╣Вр╕Зр╣Ир╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╕Бр╣Зр╣Ар╕вр╕нр╕░” line.
I guess the most important phrase in your explanation is “trust our leaders.”
Very surprising coming from a Filipino seeing that although you have a “vibrant democracy” with relatively high human capital, the Philippines, probably has the most dysfunctional (& corrupt) political-elite class.
First of all, I think Singapore’s liberalizing behavior is okay as long as it advocates that other ASEAN states should liberalize at their own pace. The ASEAN Free Trade Area incorporates this advocacy into its program by giving Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar and Vietnam a farther deadline for liberalization. My only hope is that ASEAN can be flexible enough just in case any of these four states ask for an extension.
As for support of Myanmar, I don’t find it unsettling either. First, it gives the junta a range of options for diplomacy, preventing it from being a de facto Chinese satellite. Second, further isolation of Myanmar can give the junta a nothing-to-lose mindset, and encourage it to acquire WMD, not a good thing looking from a Southeast Asian perspective.
As for the last question, you have a good point. The problem with ASEAN is that its decisions are largely made by the political elite of the countries. Even in the more democratic countries of ASEAN, there are no referendums whatsoever regarding ASEAN policies. The informality and leniency of ASEAN’s approach to its policies is probably one of the reasons why there have been no major protests regarding ASEAN policies except for the issue of Myanmar’s human rights record. Then again, I do hope that ASEAN gains some more muscle in its implementation of policies.
I know this is really weird when viewed from a scientific perspective, but I (and maybe here are like me) trust our leaders that they understand the Asian zeitgeist, i.e. prioritization of local economic development over political considerations. It’s not a very logical thing to say, but yes, it’s probably just the Asian way.
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Thailand’s royal billions
“Oh and we are talking in USD here, not ZWD.” – Tarrin
Perhaps I was not more direct Tarrin . . . at the rate the US Federal Reserve is printing US dollars, and if (dollar printing) this carries on indefinitely . . . get it yet?
Thailand’s royal billions
Vichai N
There are many billionaire certainly, but there are not many to be trillionaire. Moreover, I think there are several other people in the list, the king just happen to be from this poor SEA country certainly raise some question. Oh and we are talking in USD here, not ZWD.
Thailand’s royal billions
“Though King Bhumibol will almost certainly not live long enough to attain $1 trillion, the growth of potential of Thailand and Southeast Asia is such that it would not be unthinkable that an heir to the throne (the 59-year old Prince Vajiralongkorn or a further descendant) could eventually reach that point.”
I still could remember a time when $ millionaires were something. Then before long $ billionaires were the something. With the rate of monetary expansion going on . . . led by the US dollar . . . a $ trillionaire in my lifetime may be near . . . while nearly every other man could be a $ millionaire.
Why single out the Thai monarch? Zimbabwe already has trillionaires a plenty.
Thailand’s royal billions
c15 “If you attack me like that, then it confirms my observation all along that New Mandala is for bunch of retards and never respect other people’s views.”
Khun Tossaporn – one person was a little harsh in his choice of language in disagreeing with you. That hardly qualifies as confirmation of your own very harshly-worded and insulting observation does it? If you’re predisposed to dismiss disagreement with you as just р╕Юр╕зр╕Бр╕Эр╕гр╕▒р╣Ир╕Зр╕нр╕зр╕Фр╕Фр╕╡р╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕лр╕ер╕▓р╕в (“western conceit/arrogance” – a fair translation?), then I suggest you need to look at your own respect for other people’s views.
Thailand’s royal billions
Tossaporn Sirak, you’ll notice you’re not being censored. You can even express your views to me personally (no need to provide sources in conversation…), let’s go for a mocha! u4725949!
(This would have otherwise been scrawled on a toilet wall…)
Thailand’s royal billions
I do think some sympathy and consideration should be shown towards Tossapron Sirak’s post.
He clearly comes from a very different culture with a name like that – and I think it is worthy of respect.
We have to always bear in mind that here in Australia we have an extremely adversarial, very direct, confrontational – albeit highly productive – culture.
Even Europeans find it something of an adjustment.
I certainly have sympathy for any Asian who does.
Thailand’s royal billions
Tossaporn (#16): Certainly you “also have (your) right to believe or trust the information (you) deem credible.” How about sharing the source of the information with others? I fear you may not be getting a proper education at ANU if you haven’t learned the basic academic exercise of citation.
Thailand’s royal billions
Tossaporn Sirak –
Instead of blatantly deny other people’s point of view, maybe its better for you to actually think about it, you know, like how good student suppose to do.
Furthermore, what do you think about after reading р╕Юр╕гр╕Ъ?? still believe in the propaganda?
It has been scientifically proven that the less you know, the more you think you know.
Thailand’s royal billions
The King doesn’t have control of the Royal Crown Property Bureau. It is the Ministry of Finance that direct all the investments and transactions. (Tossaporn – 3)
Logically, then, with this distance in mind, the CPB should be automatically opening their books to public scrutiny. Do they?
Thailand’s royal billions
р╕Эр╕гр╕▒р╣Ир╕Зр╣Вр╕Зр╣Ир╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕лр╕ер╕▓р╕в believe what you want to believe. I also have my right to believe or trust the information I deem credible.
Simon Iffe@14, I’m not your son and probably older and more responsible than you.
“his methods and moives have been well documented by others and are surely beyond doubt” – who and where?
I am getting (I hope) a proper education at ANU right now. If you attack me like that, then it confirms my observation all along that New Mandala is for bunch of retards and never respect other people’s views. Is this freedom of expression you people so cherish? р╕Юр╕зр╕Бр╕Эр╕гр╕▒р╣Ир╕Зр╕нр╕зр╕Фр╕Фр╕╡р╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕лр╕ер╕▓р╕в
Paul@13, Thank for the tip. I will look into р╕Юр╕гр╕Ъ. you’ve suggested and study it more. You should too, Nich.
Thailand’s royal billions
“And don’t imply that my King attained his wealth through sinister means or it was his own personal greed.
Oh please, his methods and moives have been well documented by others and are surely beyond doubt. What you really mean is that what Nich says conflicts wit the fairytale you happen to believe.
Get a life and get an education. A proper one.
“The King doesn’t have control of the Royal Crown Property Bureau. It is the Ministry of Finance that direct all the investments and transactions. Blame them for the business success of the Royal Crown Property, not the King.”
Oh please. Whatever the King says goes, which is why we all understand that despite his comments to the contrary, he does not want the lese majeste legislation repealed.
Head out of the clouds son, wake up and smell the coffee.
Thailand’s royal billions
That the CPB is under control of the finance minister is a very blunt lie.
If you can read Thai, look up “р╕Юр╕гр╕Ъ р╕Ир╕▒р╕Фр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Ър╕╡р╕вр╕Ър╕Чр╕гр╕▒р╕Юр╕вр╣Мр╕кр╕┤р╕Щр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕йр╕▒р╕Хр╕гр╕┤р╕вр╣М 2491”. It states clearly that all earnings from the CPB is to be spent solely according to the King’s wish.
(I would provide a link, but for some reason I can’t open any of the available links right now, but it’s not that difficult to find)
The Finance Minister also hardly matters. The whole committee, except the FM, is to be appointed by the King alone. The FM is just there to take the criticism while all decisions is effectively decided by the King.
Determining Royal Wealth is based on this notion. If you have absolute control of it, then you effectively own it, regardless of who is actually the real owner.
Mind you, if you have money but can’t touch it, and some complete stranger is using your money as he wills it, it would be plain absurd. Sadly that is precisely the case here.
Thailand’s royal billions
“#7 The Revolution will come – make no mistake about this !”
Stating the obvious. But unless I am mistaken, it will be subverted by those who treat this country as a place to make a very modest investment and make a massive return. In effect, more slavery.
China and the Mekong region: Beyond the territorial trap
Submarine,
I take it you mean ‘manifest destiny’ with recourse to astrological justification?
Thailand’s royal billions
Nich, this is why posting comments on this website is frustrating and waste of time. Everytime you have a different information or views other than the common views of the “regulars” on this site, you always get attacked by them.
I’m not an academic, just a student. That is why I ask you, as academic to do a research on this subject. Because this is the information I know. Your “regulars” may not like it, but I’m sure you are fair enough to take some criticism.
Thailand’s royal billions
Tossaporn Sirak argues that the author and Nich need to do their research and get the facts right. However, Tossaporn Sirak does not do the same and simply repeats government information that tries to fudge the truth on who controls and owns what.
Fortunately, researchers have produced factual information and even the CPB has more information that makes more sense than Tossaporn Sirak’s assertions. For a starter on this, see http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/stupid-foreigners-the-monarchys-wealth-and-messed-up-brains/
Even if you don’t like PPT’s argument,look through the links and information. It shows that Tossaporn Sirak is engaging in a plagiarism of other royalists without adding a single piece of evidence.
Thailand’s royal billions
Chris Beale#5
Thanks for bringing that up. That is why Nich should do more research on the subject like a good academic/expert(?) on Thailand so that people can get the facts right.
Thailand’s royal billions
Thanks Khun Tossapol/Tossaporn:
For those who are looking for an education in how the Crown Property Bureau operates then Porphant Ouyyanont’s study is the best (perhaps the only…) place to start. There are basically no other peer reviewed contributions on the topic. Porphant states right up front that (emphasis added):
At some stage I expect there will be much more scholarly scrutiny of CPB activities but we may have to wait some years before such work becomes a regular part of the economic and social scientific terrain. Of course we could, in the meantime, and channeling Dr Sumet Tantivejkul, just run with the “р╕Эр╕гр╕▒р╣Ир╕Зр╣Вр╕Зр╣Ир╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╕Бр╣Зр╣Ар╕вр╕нр╕░” line.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
ASEAN Divides
Thanks Roy, for sharing your views on this.
I guess the most important phrase in your explanation is “trust our leaders.”
Very surprising coming from a Filipino seeing that although you have a “vibrant democracy” with relatively high human capital, the Philippines, probably has the most dysfunctional (& corrupt) political-elite class.
Why would you trust your political leaders?
ASEAN Divides
Hi Greg,
First of all, I think Singapore’s liberalizing behavior is okay as long as it advocates that other ASEAN states should liberalize at their own pace. The ASEAN Free Trade Area incorporates this advocacy into its program by giving Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar and Vietnam a farther deadline for liberalization. My only hope is that ASEAN can be flexible enough just in case any of these four states ask for an extension.
As for support of Myanmar, I don’t find it unsettling either. First, it gives the junta a range of options for diplomacy, preventing it from being a de facto Chinese satellite. Second, further isolation of Myanmar can give the junta a nothing-to-lose mindset, and encourage it to acquire WMD, not a good thing looking from a Southeast Asian perspective.
As for the last question, you have a good point. The problem with ASEAN is that its decisions are largely made by the political elite of the countries. Even in the more democratic countries of ASEAN, there are no referendums whatsoever regarding ASEAN policies. The informality and leniency of ASEAN’s approach to its policies is probably one of the reasons why there have been no major protests regarding ASEAN policies except for the issue of Myanmar’s human rights record. Then again, I do hope that ASEAN gains some more muscle in its implementation of policies.
I know this is really weird when viewed from a scientific perspective, but I (and maybe here are like me) trust our leaders that they understand the Asian zeitgeist, i.e. prioritization of local economic development over political considerations. It’s not a very logical thing to say, but yes, it’s probably just the Asian way.