Neptunian: I think that’s a good point in which Najib outhgt to answer in his promotion of national unity. This is one of his contradictions and I concede on this. But nonetheless, I’ve observed that it is the chinese who have initiate the racial tension by tabling a proposal to reduce the current malay rights of 30% quota in the firms and malays are quite sensitive when it come to their rights as stated by the constitution. Besides, the perkasa party is something like the Tea Party in the US which is loud and very controversial. If we’re fighting for freedom of speech then we should just let what people say freely, provided they respect the rights of others. That includes the rights of the Malays in the constitution and letting them to reduce it by their own racial members. That’s what I feel. But still, the perkasa way of dealing with the issue is rather harsh and should be taught more on how to be more sensitive to others before they want others to be sensitive towards them.
Pointing finger to just 1 guy is a very shallow analysis here. Thaksin might hold very large influence in the UDD, but the recent surge of Red Siam and the SFT really say that the movement is really more about a man. At this point it is almost certain that the UDD leadership doesnt represent the Red as a whole. If you watch one of the announcement by Thida in Udorn, someone actually throw a sandal at her during one of her many degrading speech.
If you listen to Jakaprob or some other speaker that was not from the UDD, you will know that they have criticize Thaksin many times. Furthermore, Thaksin’s money is nothing comparing to the elite own coffer, so your logic of one man money actually goes both way here.
I may have missed something but I don’t recall Kevin Rudd or Tony Blair ordering the army to shoot protestors. I’m sure AMsterdam would be on their case if they had.
Many members of IATS support the convening of its international conference in Thailand in the belief that they thereby encourage local scholarship in the multiplicity of research and teaching about Thailand , Tais etc .
These international promoters might question the commitment by Thais who deem one another to be professional experts in these areas to real scholarly standards when informing one another and the world about the Malay-speaking provinces and populations of
the Kingdom’s south.
See my comment in New Mandala (5 November 2009) on the shocking indifference to facility in spoken and written Malay among Bangkok’s journalists, academics and government officers. Most have NO ability to speak , understand or read the language . Their employers have no interest in changing this situatioin The quality of their investigations is therefore beyond the influence of international standards and needs be of no concern to advocates of any boycott on any conference for which they seek foreign support.
at this point, I believe that the government through its “divide” strategy to split the varying Red camps against each other is truly calling the ‘bluff’ of the Red Shirt leaders who never really had any guts in the first place.
So much for a revolutionary movement *yawn* nothing to see here people, move along.
Again, if the Red shirts (and their financiers) actually stand up for free speech, whether or not they agree with it, and their main leadership take some risks (as opposed to telling their followers to take all the risks, and then they go to a ‘resort’ style prison afterwards); then we can easily conclude that the Red shirt as a “real” movement for freedom and justice never existed. It is and was always about 1 mans return to political power, through any means.
Without mrT monetary backing Red Shirts cannot do anything monumental (symbolic yes, monumental no).
Who in Thailand will actually bother to do anything?
another case of This Is Thailand (as Bernard Trink might say)
let’s not forget the lack of outrage over the “reserved for white-skin people” ads in the BTS
A very good and comprehensive look at the current image of a form of extra-territoriality in the north of Laos. I note that some comments emphasise the negative aspects of China/Chinese in Laos — not just in the north. Having completed my own doctoral research in Laos and N.Thailand in 1975 (also funded by the Social Science Research Council — but UK not US), there is some deja vu — but importantly the players have changed. I still live in Laos (indeed in Heng Boun Road — the ‘Chinatown’ of Vientiane), and the increased presence of Chinese from China (rather than Chinese from Laos or Thailand) is notable — for one thing, very few speak Lao. But Chinese-Chinese are no more pushy or dominating or expropriating than other peoples e.g. the South Koreans. And taking a long view, I would say the Chinese casinos and the drugs, prostitution etc that seem to be attached to nightlife, are certainly no worse than the pre-1975 debauchery under the American influence. I can understand Lao being a bit worried, but those unwanted aspects of foreign aid and development of the past (Mme Lulu’s, The Purple Porpoise, etc) disappeared surprisingly quickly once the US-military presence was removed or fled. What did not disappear was the problem created by nine years of senseless bombing, which 44 years after the last bomb was dropped continues to make an area of Laos the size of Florida risky to farm — yet another form of extra-territoriality. If the Lao cede part of their territory to China in any form, that is repeating a pattern well-established historically. Whether China, Vietnam, Burma, Cambodia or Thailand, the pattern is much the same. But at least there are now no armies or constant aerial bombardments. The morally unwanted legacies of extra-territoriality in all its forms can disappear fast. All in all, the game is the same, but today some Lao at least gain something rather than being forced off their land or blown to bits. All things being comparative…ni hao ma?
I hear this echo from Macbeth: “Out, out, brief candle. Life’s but a walking shadow. A poor player that struts and frets upon the stage and then is heard no more. It’s a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
You will pardon my scepticism when I say that Amsterdam seems to hold Thailand’s politicians to some higher standard than politicians generally. The following statement from his post could be applied equally to Tony Blair’s spin doctors as well as Kevin Rudd’s. Indeed it’s a fair summation of how politics generally is played: “In every case, the government has stonewalled, obfuscated the facts, suppressed evidence, made promises of transparency it never intended on keeping, and trotted out the usual buffoons who never met a lie they were too ashamed to tell”. Sadly idealists (or is that polemicists?) such as Amsterdam have a rather tenuous grasp of politics in democracies and elsewhere.
On balance, I hope that Thida and her friends do not try to lead the Redshirts down the path of gentle change, the elites are well experienced in foiling that approach, (so obviously they’ll be encouraging it for all their worth). But it just won’t work and will only delay what I believe is the inevitable conflict. (Simon – 12)
The elite may be smart, granted, but that doesn’t mean to say the opposition isn’t and can’t get smarter. Non violent opposition is smarter than using violence. These are the ideas of Gene Sharp which have been a factor in the recent uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt.
His “From Dictatorship to Democracy” was originally published in Thailand in 1993. It can be downloaded free from http://www.aeinstein.org/
On reading this post I am struck by the striking similarities between Malaysia and Thailand. The repression of those perceived to be of ‘lower status. In Malaysia it is racial, here it is political.
many other forum members here have left comments that are valid and have invalidated your points. all i have to say is i agree with most of them but i definitely do not agree with you.
how much is BN paying you? or UMNO for that matter? are you even a non-bumi? pur-lease.
What all color codes in Thailand’s slow walk towards democracy lack are leaders who are truly ‘altruistic’.
All factions are vying for the position to lead as they follow the only social behavior they know, which is to control and rort those who have no wealth, power or influence.
Thailand has a massive ‘shadow economy’ that is run with a ‘clique mentality’. They deceive the underclasses into believing they will have a voice when in actual fact they continue to behave with impunity.
Money, family and status as a previous poster had mentioned in a different post is what really matters, no matter how it is acquired.
All colour codes have their influential backers, as Thailand’s social culture which is heavily influenced by its archaic ‘patronage system’ which allows those that get elected to resume their corrupt activities. In their hearts they assume the vast majority of the people are not ready for real democracy.
Its much the same as whats happening in the Arab world yet when the parallels are made many deny Thailand has a similar problem. The autocrats of Thailand hide behind the scenes while those in the Arab world love to take center stage. At least in the Arab world the people are finally standing up and saying ‘enough’ as they truly understand what it means to have a ‘democratic voice’ as they are willing to die for it. They are not just empty slogans that you see coming out of Thailand’s various colour groups, as at the end of the day in Thailand its always been about the money, power and influence and who gets the opportunity to take what the previous regime had taken.
The ‘social culture’ is at the core of Thailand’s economic and political problems yet there is no one willing to open it up and expose it for what it really is.
QUOTE(billyd): ” They will be released when it is convenient and beneficial for the regime.”
I believe the authorities are getting increasingly worried about the increasing and renewed momentum of the Red-Shirt rallies and – in particular – their latest rally outside the Supreme Court and on both sides of the Democracy Monument on Saturday 19 February.
The huge volume of protesters present on that occasion coupled with their very legitimate and sincere demands for the release of innocent Red-Shirt leaders has contributed greatly to frightening and scaring the government into considering some sort of compromise.
I guess the government decided that the best course of action to take – faced with this rapidly and ever burgeoning resurgence of Red-Shirt activity – would be to inititiate the immediate release of Red-Shirt prisoners which would then hopefully ‘take the wind out of their sails.’
Watch out for the surrender of leading Red-Shirt Arisman Pongruengrong and others in the weeks and months to come to replace those already released in order to maintain the Red-Shirt momentum.
Guys, do me a favour — find a real leader who can unite fractions. You Reds certainly don’t have a charismatic leader – someone with vision and the heart and mind to lead. You couldn’t even do with external help from a non-red observer last May. I couldn’t help myself to write as I’m seeing la-Terreur (1793-94) in reverse. Don’t even think about a revolution when unity and competency of leadership is not in store.
Guizot’s “Memoirs to Illustrate the History of My Time” (1859, first ed.); a book to recommend to Mor Weng and Thida.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Najib to receive honorary degree from Monash
Neptunian: I think that’s a good point in which Najib outhgt to answer in his promotion of national unity. This is one of his contradictions and I concede on this. But nonetheless, I’ve observed that it is the chinese who have initiate the racial tension by tabling a proposal to reduce the current malay rights of 30% quota in the firms and malays are quite sensitive when it come to their rights as stated by the constitution. Besides, the perkasa party is something like the Tea Party in the US which is loud and very controversial. If we’re fighting for freedom of speech then we should just let what people say freely, provided they respect the rights of others. That includes the rights of the Malays in the constitution and letting them to reduce it by their own racial members. That’s what I feel. But still, the perkasa way of dealing with the issue is rather harsh and should be taught more on how to be more sensitive to others before they want others to be sensitive towards them.
Najib to receive honorary degree from Monash
Hello, Mr. Lim
Please answer this, in your infinite “wisdom”
“If indeed the BN wanted to reduce racial overtones or negative messages, then why hasn’t anything been done PERKASA and Utusan Malaysia?”
I salute your ability to simply ignore facts.
Where to now for the UDD?
Dickie Simpkins – 33
Pointing finger to just 1 guy is a very shallow analysis here. Thaksin might hold very large influence in the UDD, but the recent surge of Red Siam and the SFT really say that the movement is really more about a man. At this point it is almost certain that the UDD leadership doesnt represent the Red as a whole. If you watch one of the announcement by Thida in Udorn, someone actually throw a sandal at her during one of her many degrading speech.
If you listen to Jakaprob or some other speaker that was not from the UDD, you will know that they have criticize Thaksin many times. Furthermore, Thaksin’s money is nothing comparing to the elite own coffer, so your logic of one man money actually goes both way here.
Abhisit is a pom
David Johnson,
I may have missed something but I don’t recall Kevin Rudd or Tony Blair ordering the army to shoot protestors. I’m sure AMsterdam would be on their case if they had.
Should the International Conference on Thai Studies be held in Thailand?
Many members of IATS support the convening of its international conference in Thailand in the belief that they thereby encourage local scholarship in the multiplicity of research and teaching about Thailand , Tais etc .
These international promoters might question the commitment by Thais who deem one another to be professional experts in these areas to real scholarly standards when informing one another and the world about the Malay-speaking provinces and populations of
the Kingdom’s south.
See my comment in New Mandala (5 November 2009) on the shocking indifference to facility in spoken and written Malay among Bangkok’s journalists, academics and government officers. Most have NO ability to speak , understand or read the language . Their employers have no interest in changing this situatioin The quality of their investigations is therefore beyond the influence of international standards and needs be of no concern to advocates of any boycott on any conference for which they seek foreign support.
Where to now for the UDD?
at this point, I believe that the government through its “divide” strategy to split the varying Red camps against each other is truly calling the ‘bluff’ of the Red Shirt leaders who never really had any guts in the first place.
So much for a revolutionary movement *yawn* nothing to see here people, move along.
Again, if the Red shirts (and their financiers) actually stand up for free speech, whether or not they agree with it, and their main leadership take some risks (as opposed to telling their followers to take all the risks, and then they go to a ‘resort’ style prison afterwards); then we can easily conclude that the Red shirt as a “real” movement for freedom and justice never existed. It is and was always about 1 mans return to political power, through any means.
Without mrT monetary backing Red Shirts cannot do anything monumental (symbolic yes, monumental no).
Who in Thailand will actually bother to do anything?
another case of This Is Thailand (as Bernard Trink might say)
let’s not forget the lack of outrage over the “reserved for white-skin people” ads in the BTS
so Jim Taylor, awake to realities now?
The internal frontier: Chinese extraterritoriality in northern Laos?
A very good and comprehensive look at the current image of a form of extra-territoriality in the north of Laos. I note that some comments emphasise the negative aspects of China/Chinese in Laos — not just in the north. Having completed my own doctoral research in Laos and N.Thailand in 1975 (also funded by the Social Science Research Council — but UK not US), there is some deja vu — but importantly the players have changed. I still live in Laos (indeed in Heng Boun Road — the ‘Chinatown’ of Vientiane), and the increased presence of Chinese from China (rather than Chinese from Laos or Thailand) is notable — for one thing, very few speak Lao. But Chinese-Chinese are no more pushy or dominating or expropriating than other peoples e.g. the South Koreans. And taking a long view, I would say the Chinese casinos and the drugs, prostitution etc that seem to be attached to nightlife, are certainly no worse than the pre-1975 debauchery under the American influence. I can understand Lao being a bit worried, but those unwanted aspects of foreign aid and development of the past (Mme Lulu’s, The Purple Porpoise, etc) disappeared surprisingly quickly once the US-military presence was removed or fled. What did not disappear was the problem created by nine years of senseless bombing, which 44 years after the last bomb was dropped continues to make an area of Laos the size of Florida risky to farm — yet another form of extra-territoriality. If the Lao cede part of their territory to China in any form, that is repeating a pattern well-established historically. Whether China, Vietnam, Burma, Cambodia or Thailand, the pattern is much the same. But at least there are now no armies or constant aerial bombardments. The morally unwanted legacies of extra-territoriality in all its forms can disappear fast. All in all, the game is the same, but today some Lao at least gain something rather than being forced off their land or blown to bits. All things being comparative…ni hao ma?
The Great Constitutional Monarch
I hear this echo from Macbeth: “Out, out, brief candle. Life’s but a walking shadow. A poor player that struts and frets upon the stage and then is heard no more. It’s a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
Abhisit is a pom
You will pardon my scepticism when I say that Amsterdam seems to hold Thailand’s politicians to some higher standard than politicians generally. The following statement from his post could be applied equally to Tony Blair’s spin doctors as well as Kevin Rudd’s. Indeed it’s a fair summation of how politics generally is played: “In every case, the government has stonewalled, obfuscated the facts, suppressed evidence, made promises of transparency it never intended on keeping, and trotted out the usual buffoons who never met a lie they were too ashamed to tell”. Sadly idealists (or is that polemicists?) such as Amsterdam have a rather tenuous grasp of politics in democracies and elsewhere.
Where to now for the UDD?
On balance, I hope that Thida and her friends do not try to lead the Redshirts down the path of gentle change, the elites are well experienced in foiling that approach, (so obviously they’ll be encouraging it for all their worth). But it just won’t work and will only delay what I believe is the inevitable conflict. (Simon – 12)
The elite may be smart, granted, but that doesn’t mean to say the opposition isn’t and can’t get smarter. Non violent opposition is smarter than using violence. These are the ideas of Gene Sharp which have been a factor in the recent uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt.
His “From Dictatorship to Democracy” was originally published in Thailand in 1993. It can be downloaded free from http://www.aeinstein.org/
Where to now for the UDD?
Tarrin – 31
This is certainly not a good sign for a movement that is suppose to revolve around social change and democratic revolution.
But that was always the problem. Unless we consider exactly what the UDD’s raison d’├кtre is then nothing else will make sense.
Where to now for the UDD?
Some very encouraging sentiments in this thread, if it weren’t for the fact that there is no one listening of any significance to the real plot.
Malaysian Indians: A sad story
On reading this post I am struck by the striking similarities between Malaysia and Thailand. The repression of those perceived to be of ‘lower status. In Malaysia it is racial, here it is political.
Najib to receive honorary degree from Monash
to lim weng marc:
one word to your rambling statements. MEH.
maybe another word: IGNORANT.
many other forum members here have left comments that are valid and have invalidated your points. all i have to say is i agree with most of them but i definitely do not agree with you.
how much is BN paying you? or UMNO for that matter? are you even a non-bumi? pur-lease.
Najib to receive honorary degree from Monash
Strongly support Fadhil’s views.
While I think PR is better than BN when it comes to limited choice in an election, I believe Malaysians deserve better.
We need to focus on the national interest which both coalition have failed.
In this context I welcome the initiative put forward by the Malaysian Civil Liberties Movement.
Where to now for the UDD?
What all color codes in Thailand’s slow walk towards democracy lack are leaders who are truly ‘altruistic’.
All factions are vying for the position to lead as they follow the only social behavior they know, which is to control and rort those who have no wealth, power or influence.
Thailand has a massive ‘shadow economy’ that is run with a ‘clique mentality’. They deceive the underclasses into believing they will have a voice when in actual fact they continue to behave with impunity.
Money, family and status as a previous poster had mentioned in a different post is what really matters, no matter how it is acquired.
All colour codes have their influential backers, as Thailand’s social culture which is heavily influenced by its archaic ‘patronage system’ which allows those that get elected to resume their corrupt activities. In their hearts they assume the vast majority of the people are not ready for real democracy.
Its much the same as whats happening in the Arab world yet when the parallels are made many deny Thailand has a similar problem. The autocrats of Thailand hide behind the scenes while those in the Arab world love to take center stage. At least in the Arab world the people are finally standing up and saying ‘enough’ as they truly understand what it means to have a ‘democratic voice’ as they are willing to die for it. They are not just empty slogans that you see coming out of Thailand’s various colour groups, as at the end of the day in Thailand its always been about the money, power and influence and who gets the opportunity to take what the previous regime had taken.
The ‘social culture’ is at the core of Thailand’s economic and political problems yet there is no one willing to open it up and expose it for what it really is.
Welcome to Red Shirt leaders in Khon Kaen
QUOTE(billyd): ” They will be released when it is convenient and beneficial for the regime.”
I believe the authorities are getting increasingly worried about the increasing and renewed momentum of the Red-Shirt rallies and – in particular – their latest rally outside the Supreme Court and on both sides of the Democracy Monument on Saturday 19 February.
The huge volume of protesters present on that occasion coupled with their very legitimate and sincere demands for the release of innocent Red-Shirt leaders has contributed greatly to frightening and scaring the government into considering some sort of compromise.
I guess the government decided that the best course of action to take – faced with this rapidly and ever burgeoning resurgence of Red-Shirt activity – would be to inititiate the immediate release of Red-Shirt prisoners which would then hopefully ‘take the wind out of their sails.’
Watch out for the surrender of leading Red-Shirt Arisman Pongruengrong and others in the weeks and months to come to replace those already released in order to maintain the Red-Shirt momentum.
Where to now for the UDD?
Guys, do me a favour — find a real leader who can unite fractions. You Reds certainly don’t have a charismatic leader – someone with vision and the heart and mind to lead. You couldn’t even do with external help from a non-red observer last May. I couldn’t help myself to write as I’m seeing la-Terreur (1793-94) in reverse. Don’t even think about a revolution when unity and competency of leadership is not in store.
Guizot’s “Memoirs to Illustrate the History of My Time” (1859, first ed.); a book to recommend to Mor Weng and Thida.
Malaysian Indians: A sad story
[…] the continuing use of Interlok novel in schools. The controversial book, according to protesters, discriminates against the Indian community. […]
Justice on Trial: Darunee Charnchoengsilpakul and the Thai Constitutional Court
update: Da Torpedo’s case
The date of reading the Constitutional Court’s verdict on the case is now set for 25 May.
See the explanation of the meaning of the Appeal Court’s verdict by the Criminal Court’s spokesman here (in Thai):
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1298902392&grpid&catid=02&subcatid=0207