Looks like Not the Nation has been hacked today. Site links are jumping to a bogus security analysis site and attempting to download what is presumeably a virus/malware.
I just re-read Handley’s The King Never Smiles and — having just seen the Wikileaks cables on Prem’s and Siddhi’s views about the CP — this statement stood out: “To make sure his instruction, or the law in lieu, was followed faithfully, Bhumipol built up his privy council around Prem.” (p.422)
If his last instruction is the CP, B’s well-laid plans may have backfired.
#61
The succession will happen as planned. The bent cop will be allowed to return. The opposing factions of his ‘fellow’ amaart will continue to make life difficult for him. But more importantly he and his parasite friends and enemies will both continue to conspire to murder any real hope of democracy in this country. Contrary to popular belief, miracles do not happen here.
Reading the wistful wishes of the Privy Council members as revealed to the American ambassador courtesy of wikileaks might fuel such speculation… of the press release of such an appointment. But who would believe it?
I don’t see any ‘good’ way to get past the succession issue, from the “elite” point of view.
From the peoples’ point of view (re)gaining control of their government and relegating the King of Thailand to his/her purely ceremonial role as ‘head of state’ and permanently removing the military from any position wherefrom they may seize or in any way exert political power seems the answer to the problem.
@relo (#60), if you think that XXX and YYY are inseparable, what do you think is more likely to happen: that the amart block XXX’s return in order to prevent YYY’s succession, or that they somehow prevent YYY’s succession in order to block XXX’s return?
what do you think will be worse for Thailand: the return of ****, or ****?”
Those are not really interchangable options. What we are almost certainly going to get is both at the same time. Added to which, the dinosaur advisors will continue to exist and do damage, because no already rich or powerful person is ever shamed into silence or punished. Democracy cannot exist, and never has existed, in this anarchy of the feckless rich. If we seek to justify any of the factions in this power struggle, we are undoubtedly allowing all their sponsors off the hook.
Can you deny that Siddhi and Anand committed lese majeste?
No, of course not. Lese majeste is a stupid counter-productive law and will only bring the end of monarchy closer. The sooner it’s dropped and everyone arrested under it released the better.
Is Thaksin the only corrupt politician we have had in Thailand? Of course not, he isn’t even the only corrupt prime minister we have had. We could all use most of our fingers counting those.
But what you call my hatred of Thaksin is that I refuse to join the herd in supporting a movement to reinstall a corrupt authoritarian businessman back into power.
Why?
Well first he doesn’t need my help. He will be back soon enough.
Second, when he gets back into power he will continue the job he started. His CEO premiership means he will take out any other centres of power that threaten his total rule of Thailand.
Third, I could never support someone who was shopping in the brand name stores in Paris airport while asking his followers to sacrifice their lives at the same time. Nero had nothing on this guy. Bring him back and we will end up with Thailand being considered a failed state by the rest of the world.
I guess I had better stop asking about the ‘double standards’ argument as used by the UDD or I will outstay my welcome, but strange nobody can answer it with any logic.
LesAbbey – you seem intent on trying to reduce the “whole ‘double standards’ argument” to just the sliver that you select, sophistically ignoring all the rest. Plainly, all should “take responsibility” for their actions when the credibility of the accusations is properly established, so your question as to “How many others would need to be ‘singled out’…..” etc is just a non sequitur – and your wandering off into comparisons with singling out one murderer likewise.
The core of the “whole ‘double standards’ argument” is about who gets and who doesn’t get even-handedly charged/prosecuted/punished for their actions – and not about whether they “take responsibility” for them. This being Thailand, can you cite many (any?) examples of political figures taking responsibility for criminal or otherwise reprehensible actions?
LesAbbey, your hatred of Thaksin is blinding you from seeing the facts right on front of you.
Have you even read Nicholas’ post? Can you deny that Siddhi and Anand committed lese majeste?
How can you reconcile the silence of the Abhisit government over the lese majeste in the Wikileak, with the fact that the military has announced that it will “eliminate” people who insult the monarchy from the Kingdom? From Abhisit’s claiming that his first priority is protecting the palace? From the fact that there has been a 2000% increase in lese majeste cases by this regime, and that numerous human rights agencies
I call that a double standard! And the very fact that you’re ignoring the very subject of Nicholas’ post shows that you have no intention of focusing on anything other than Thaksin.
Errr……. no Steve. I have already removed those you call pro-Thaksin zealots like Jim from the ‘double standards’ argument because they obviously believe, or pretend to believe, that Thaksin has done nothing wrong so ‘double standards’ don’t apply in that case.
So let’s follow the logic of your argument Thaksin is singled out and treated as almost unique while a blind or near-blind eye is turned to others.
How many others would need to be ‘singled out’ to make it OK to make Thaksin take responsibility for his actions? Less than ten? More than ten? More than a hundred?
Could we apply this to other crimes? For example could we say of a murderer, “Why single this one out while so many others are not caught?”
The pro-Thaksin zealots are at least understandable, whether really true believers or just using the red shirt movement for their own ends. Those educated people pushing the ‘double standards’ argument to support the pro-Thaksin movement are not looking close enough at the logic of their argument.
Famous names in history, as you know, were the Bombay Burmah Trading Corporation Ltd. (BBTC) a dispute with which became the casus belli for the Third Anglo-Burmese War that led to annexation, and the Burmah Oil Company (BOC) in the old days of the 19th and early 20th C before the h was dropped. The country was referred to as the Kingdom or Court of Ava before that.
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Crackdown on Not The Nation readers
Looks like Not the Nation has been hacked today. Site links are jumping to a bogus security analysis site and attempting to download what is presumeably a virus/malware.
Speculation on Thailand’s succession
I just re-read Handley’s The King Never Smiles and — having just seen the Wikileaks cables on Prem’s and Siddhi’s views about the CP — this statement stood out: “To make sure his instruction, or the law in lieu, was followed faithfully, Bhumipol built up his privy council around Prem.” (p.422)
If his last instruction is the CP, B’s well-laid plans may have backfired.
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
#61
The succession will happen as planned. The bent cop will be allowed to return. The opposing factions of his ‘fellow’ amaart will continue to make life difficult for him. But more importantly he and his parasite friends and enemies will both continue to conspire to murder any real hope of democracy in this country. Contrary to popular belief, miracles do not happen here.
Crackdown on Not The Nation readers
Moral turpitude… I knew it…
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
Superduperanonymous – 59
I think we get the perfect storm scenario.
Speculation on Thailand’s succession
Reading the wistful wishes of the Privy Council members as revealed to the American ambassador courtesy of wikileaks might fuel such speculation… of the press release of such an appointment. But who would believe it?
I don’t see any ‘good’ way to get past the succession issue, from the “elite” point of view.
From the peoples’ point of view (re)gaining control of their government and relegating the King of Thailand to his/her purely ceremonial role as ‘head of state’ and permanently removing the military from any position wherefrom they may seize or in any way exert political power seems the answer to the problem.
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
@relo (#60), if you think that XXX and YYY are inseparable, what do you think is more likely to happen: that the amart block XXX’s return in order to prevent YYY’s succession, or that they somehow prevent YYY’s succession in order to block XXX’s return?
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
“Superduperanonymous // Dec 23, 2010 at 6:07 pm
what do you think will be worse for Thailand: the return of ****, or ****?”
Those are not really interchangable options. What we are almost certainly going to get is both at the same time. Added to which, the dinosaur advisors will continue to exist and do damage, because no already rich or powerful person is ever shamed into silence or punished. Democracy cannot exist, and never has existed, in this anarchy of the feckless rich. If we seek to justify any of the factions in this power struggle, we are undoubtedly allowing all their sponsors off the hook.
Legitimacy crisis in Thailand
Patrick Jory is spot on. Normally, sons will sing praises of their father, but perhaps not this time.
Crackdown on Not The Nation readers
Les, well spotted. I have made enquiries and the authorities have provided this revised mugshot.
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
LesAbbey, based on the Wikileaks, what do you think will be worse for Thailand: the return of Thaksin, or King Vajiralongkorn?
Crackdown on Not The Nation readers
haha this is great
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
Superduperanonymous – 55
Can you deny that Siddhi and Anand committed lese majeste?
No, of course not. Lese majeste is a stupid counter-productive law and will only bring the end of monarchy closer. The sooner it’s dropped and everyone arrested under it released the better.
Is Thaksin the only corrupt politician we have had in Thailand? Of course not, he isn’t even the only corrupt prime minister we have had. We could all use most of our fingers counting those.
But what you call my hatred of Thaksin is that I refuse to join the herd in supporting a movement to reinstall a corrupt authoritarian businessman back into power.
Why?
Well first he doesn’t need my help. He will be back soon enough.
Second, when he gets back into power he will continue the job he started. His CEO premiership means he will take out any other centres of power that threaten his total rule of Thailand.
Third, I could never support someone who was shopping in the brand name stores in Paris airport while asking his followers to sacrifice their lives at the same time. Nero had nothing on this guy. Bring him back and we will end up with Thailand being considered a failed state by the rest of the world.
I guess I had better stop asking about the ‘double standards’ argument as used by the UDD or I will outstay my welcome, but strange nobody can answer it with any logic.
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
LesAbbey – you seem intent on trying to reduce the “whole ‘double standards’ argument” to just the sliver that you select, sophistically ignoring all the rest. Plainly, all should “take responsibility” for their actions when the credibility of the accusations is properly established, so your question as to “How many others would need to be ‘singled out’…..” etc is just a non sequitur – and your wandering off into comparisons with singling out one murderer likewise.
The core of the “whole ‘double standards’ argument” is about who gets and who doesn’t get even-handedly charged/prosecuted/punished for their actions – and not about whether they “take responsibility” for them. This being Thailand, can you cite many (any?) examples of political figures taking responsibility for criminal or otherwise reprehensible actions?
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
LesAbbey – 51
Can you explain what it was that Thaksin actually did wrong in the Ratchadaphisek land purchase controversy?
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
LesAbbey, your hatred of Thaksin is blinding you from seeing the facts right on front of you.
Have you even read Nicholas’ post? Can you deny that Siddhi and Anand committed lese majeste?
How can you reconcile the silence of the Abhisit government over the lese majeste in the Wikileak, with the fact that the military has announced that it will “eliminate” people who insult the monarchy from the Kingdom? From Abhisit’s claiming that his first priority is protecting the palace? From the fact that there has been a 2000% increase in lese majeste cases by this regime, and that numerous human rights agencies
I call that a double standard! And the very fact that you’re ignoring the very subject of Nicholas’ post shows that you have no intention of focusing on anything other than Thaksin.
Wikileaks and Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
Steve – 53
Errr……. no Steve. I have already removed those you call pro-Thaksin zealots like Jim from the ‘double standards’ argument because they obviously believe, or pretend to believe, that Thaksin has done nothing wrong so ‘double standards’ don’t apply in that case.
So let’s follow the logic of your argument Thaksin is singled out and treated as almost unique while a blind or near-blind eye is turned to others.
How many others would need to be ‘singled out’ to make it OK to make Thaksin take responsibility for his actions? Less than ten? More than ten? More than a hundred?
Could we apply this to other crimes? For example could we say of a murderer, “Why single this one out while so many others are not caught?”
The pro-Thaksin zealots are at least understandable, whether really true believers or just using the red shirt movement for their own ends. Those educated people pushing the ‘double standards’ argument to support the pro-Thaksin movement are not looking close enough at the logic of their argument.
Crackdown on Not The Nation readers
6’6″?
Why is Malaysia experiencing a brain drain?
Neptunian @ 15.
You have captured the Malaysian scenario well. But it need not remain that way.
StillinMalaysia @ 23 – That’s the spirit.
Google Ngram from Siam to Myanmar
Nich,
Famous names in history, as you know, were the Bombay Burmah Trading Corporation Ltd. (BBTC) a dispute with which became the casus belli for the Third Anglo-Burmese War that led to annexation, and the Burmah Oil Company (BOC) in the old days of the 19th and early 20th C before the h was dropped. The country was referred to as the Kingdom or Court of Ava before that.