The Nation linked article is too funny. It oozes the condescending attitude that Thais are renowned for around the region. Thais really can’t help themselves with the superiority complex thing. It would be interesting to know if Thailand sent their ambassador to the ribbon-cutting ceremony or did they just send some low-level representative in his stead.
I agree with Robert Cooper–the monument was brilliantly done to evince the double entendre that I’m sure the Lao authorities intended. The extended hand is not really turned properly for a handshake yet not turned enough to convey, “Yud!” It’s also not raised high enough to connote a salute to his troops. The hand is obviously in mid-motion to do something. But to do what, we’ll never know for sure. Reach for his sword, welcome home his compatriots, tell the Mighty Mekong to stop, or shake hands with his Thai enemies?
The efforts you describe by the int’l donor community to maintain the “ideal of environmentally-friendly market-based livelihoods” in their funded projects appear to be a fool’s game. It’s the same game played ever since the Bretton Woods institutions were founded, only now the game has been re-marketed with new catch phrases.
The winners are the same, the losers are the same. And sadly the enablers are still the same motley crew of do-gooders who say, ‘this time it’s gonna be different because we won’t let the past repeat itself.’ Oh, the hubris.
The march of human development is inevitable. If you are not going to get out of the way, at least make it less difficult for the eventual losers to find another way out. Green growth, market-based livelihood, environmentally friendly, yadda-yadda. Listen to yourself talk some time and you’ll see the language you use show that you care more about the environment than the people who live in it.
I dont have input from many Thai people but I suspect your assumption that “anti-monarchy” feelings automatically means pro-republic.
I believe that many red Thai have a deeper understanding and recognise that the cause of Thailand’s societal and political issues are not wholly due to the institution of the monarchy and would not be solved by its elimination.
Thailand’s issues result from self-serving manipulation of military power and a created awe surrounding the King and related Royals.
I suspect solutions that reduce the legal protection and covert power of the monarchy and those riding with it and force the military to accept the authority of democratically elected governments would be a closer match to the heart of most Thai people.
Solutions modelled on the european monarchies where the royals and the military are controlled by democratically elected governments I think would be preferable.
Republican models which involve more or less autocratic “elected” presidents, like the US, China, etc, etc in my view tend to more extreme and less civilised societies.
When Dr. Sun Yat Sen staged the China Revolution 1911, the northern half of the country was not quite agree with him as well. When Lenin staged the Russia Revolution, only Saint. Petersburg and Moscow and the area around that actually join with the revolution. Russia was plunge into 4 years long civil war and China would not consolidate until after Mao took over the country.
Anyway, this might be a good start on your thesis about North and NE split?
Like a dog with a bone, aren’t you? Wishful thinking if you ask me, bypassing ASSK, getting her out of the equation which you have fervently advocated for, for sooo boringly long. Time you admitted defeat, don’t you think? She’s out and still not out, you know what I mean, like people like you keep telling us how irrelevant she has become.
Unless your generals are desperately plotting again to take her out and not botch it this time like in Depayin, and no Burmese in their right mind would put it past our enlightened rulers, your hopes will be dashed again.
re. Seng and Richard jackson : the price of gold has gone up enormously in the past few years – so there’s no reason Australian mining companies would close any of their mines in Laos mining that !
Everyone can see a major overhaul is required with Thai school system. Encourage individual thinking and say that again 10 times. Same applies at university level.
RN and WLH : re. Royal factionalism – there is actually some evidence for this, in the fact that a prominent Thanpuying took to the stage at a major Red Shirt rally and spoke to the crowd in
support.
As for the traffic concerned trainspotters, I just returned from Cambodia to Thailand. Thai traffic is I would say (driving most days in BKK) better and more considerate than French or Italian I have had misfortune to take part in … UK is far better in regard of law and USA varies.
Sonthi is a political animal, although some of his actions could be described as delusional or plain crazy.
These anti-cambodian comments are out of line. On Cambodian side there is no love lost for Thais either, for a reason too. But on both sides of border, people would like to live their lives and benefit from commerce. There are still families divided.
Nick – and the others talking in support of increasing evidence many Red Shirts are becoming more anti-monarchy – where do you see their political position going ?
Obviously the South (except perhaps Pattani), and non-Red areas of Bangkok, and much of the Central Plains, are unlikely to support a republic.
p.s. Talking about overwhelming evidence, the Abac Poll published a couple of weeks ago showed that 76 percent of Thais see nothing wrong with corruption.
The most mind-blowing bit of the report, for me, was this:
“… the government will ask the Ministry of Culture to combat such attitudes by building a new culture, creating a new consciousness for the Thai people…”
I’m not suggesting that there is no ‘brainwashing’ in Thai schools (or the whole cradle-to-grave culture, if you prefer) – there patently is. But surely the deeper question is: why don’t more Thais see through it? Thai brainwashing is as subtle as a punch in the face (the MoSo? Promoted by people whose most notable attribute is the way their families flaunt their ‘unusual wealth’ in gross acts of conspicuous consumption?)
The point about English Literature is key, I think. However narrow and reactionary the British school system might have been, it could hardly avoid exposing pupils to Dickens, Orwell etc. Equally, in history classes: the peasants’ revolt, the Civil War, the reform of the House of Lords etc. In other words, it was the accumulated political self-consciousness of the people themselves that provided the counterweight to any attempt at brainwashing.
Which is why I think that ‘emergence from self-imposed childhood’ is the key. I see no significant signs of it among the Thai university students that I teach. But perhaps that’s looking in the wrong place?
Laos country way too poor to have the economic impact like other country. Compare to other country off course, because the country over poor. Since, the economic crisis China import and export to Laos is cut back almost 70% trade. Laos people are relyon other country like china and vietname to be their back bone. Other smart country like Australia, and China are the one who feeding Laos.
The gorvernment sold Laos Dirt to China for alot of money, which is Laos people don’t even know, the money was keep in secret contract for Lease for 99 years. At the time Laos people wake up then Chinese establish their own Litle country inside downtown and concord the whole country. They will make Laos people become more slave and have no power over anything. People china bought all the Land. The rich people own the Land and the Poor Laos work as slave for the Rich of the Land. Government are the Trader who work above all other that’s why Laos people are so poor. Now, Laos people have to realize what has happen to the Country. Don’t let other people use your country as slave. Use your head Laos people. How long you will be under control of other country? Wake up! Wake up!
Please feel free to post and/or comment.
Thank you.
Frank G Anderson
Status of Criminal Defamation Case Against Frank G Anderson
On 29 November 2010, a representative of Frank G Anderson appeared as scheduled at Rachadaphisek Criminal Court, Prosecutor’s office Section 7, to listen to progress being made in a criminal defamation case filed against Anderson by UK national Akbar Khan, the latter expelled from the Foreign Correspondents Club for alleged ethical violations incompatible with membership obligations.
Since February 2010, Anderson has appeared before police and the prosecutor some two dozen times, ostensibly to acknowledge criminal defamation allegations Khan made against him for material Khan claims defamed him on Anderson’s website, http://www.thekoratpost.com . Anderson’s online commentary critiqued Khan for pursuing several lese majeste charges against others in Thailand.
Anderson reports that beginning with the first visit to the police in response to a summons, he informed police that they should never have asked him to appear based on faulty English-to-Thai translated material khan gave to police to support his defamation case. Anderson told the police they should have immediately told Khan to have any relevant material translated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and then attach that to his plaint. Police never did this.
It was sometime in September 2010 that Anderson finally learned from the prosecutor that the indicated mis-translated material had finally been sent to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. But even up to late November there was no apparent progress in the case.
At the 29 November 2010 appearance, Anderson’s representative was informed that the prosecutor would consult with police to determine whether Anderson should be formally charged with criminal defamation or not. If the prosecutor decides to proceed with charges, Anderson will be required to put up 50,000 Baht personal guarantee to remain free.
Prosecutor states that a decision to prosecute or not will be made by 13 December 2010.
#10: You’re missing a very important point here. In the 50s, U.S., U.K., and Australian schools did teach History and Social Studies, for example, in a much narrower “ideological” way than they do now. However, at the same time they were teaching English Literature, a good deal of which is socially critical, and they were introducing students to debating and academic writing, which depend on skepticism, & analytical & critical skills, and this undercut much of the ‘brainwashing’ for many students. Further, the Humanities faculties of universities were populated by a significant percentage of teachers who saw the dangers of extreme patriotism & other right-wing ideological viewpoints, and so strove to introduce their students to alternatives, as well as training them in clearer thinking.
In Thailand, where students are still required to go along with the opinions drilled into them by their teachers, and are not taught how to write argumentatively, the brainwashing is much more effective. For many Thai students, testing, all the way up to undergraduate degree-level is done exclusively with ‘multiple choice’ questions, in which there is only one ‘correct’ answer, chosen by the examiners. As Tom Hoy has pointed out on NM, there is an inherent ideological component in such tests, & no training in reasoning is necessary.
Learning to write is learning to think. Developing the capacity to analyse and criticise, to commit to an opinion on the basis of one’s own reasoning, and to be able to let go of it when one sees that it was ‘wrong’, are all contributors to the development of emotional maturity.
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Size matters
The Nation linked article is too funny. It oozes the condescending attitude that Thais are renowned for around the region. Thais really can’t help themselves with the superiority complex thing. It would be interesting to know if Thailand sent their ambassador to the ribbon-cutting ceremony or did they just send some low-level representative in his stead.
I agree with Robert Cooper–the monument was brilliantly done to evince the double entendre that I’m sure the Lao authorities intended. The extended hand is not really turned properly for a handshake yet not turned enough to convey, “Yud!” It’s also not raised high enough to connote a salute to his troops. The hand is obviously in mid-motion to do something. But to do what, we’ll never know for sure. Reach for his sword, welcome home his compatriots, tell the Mighty Mekong to stop, or shake hands with his Thai enemies?
Banking on sustainability in Nam Theun 2
The efforts you describe by the int’l donor community to maintain the “ideal of environmentally-friendly market-based livelihoods” in their funded projects appear to be a fool’s game. It’s the same game played ever since the Bretton Woods institutions were founded, only now the game has been re-marketed with new catch phrases.
The winners are the same, the losers are the same. And sadly the enablers are still the same motley crew of do-gooders who say, ‘this time it’s gonna be different because we won’t let the past repeat itself.’ Oh, the hubris.
The march of human development is inevitable. If you are not going to get out of the way, at least make it less difficult for the eventual losers to find another way out. Green growth, market-based livelihood, environmentally friendly, yadda-yadda. Listen to yourself talk some time and you’ll see the language you use show that you care more about the environment than the people who live in it.
How hardline have the redshirts become?
Chris Beale #60
I dont have input from many Thai people but I suspect your assumption that “anti-monarchy” feelings automatically means pro-republic.
I believe that many red Thai have a deeper understanding and recognise that the cause of Thailand’s societal and political issues are not wholly due to the institution of the monarchy and would not be solved by its elimination.
Thailand’s issues result from self-serving manipulation of military power and a created awe surrounding the King and related Royals.
I suspect solutions that reduce the legal protection and covert power of the monarchy and those riding with it and force the military to accept the authority of democratically elected governments would be a closer match to the heart of most Thai people.
Solutions modelled on the european monarchies where the royals and the military are controlled by democratically elected governments I think would be preferable.
Republican models which involve more or less autocratic “elected” presidents, like the US, China, etc, etc in my view tend to more extreme and less civilised societies.
How hardline have the redshirts become?
chris beale- 60
When Dr. Sun Yat Sen staged the China Revolution 1911, the northern half of the country was not quite agree with him as well. When Lenin staged the Russia Revolution, only Saint. Petersburg and Moscow and the area around that actually join with the revolution. Russia was plunge into 4 years long civil war and China would not consolidate until after Mao took over the country.
Anyway, this might be a good start on your thesis about North and NE split?
Zarni takes aim at Burma experts
plan B,
Like a dog with a bone, aren’t you? Wishful thinking if you ask me, bypassing ASSK, getting her out of the equation which you have fervently advocated for, for sooo boringly long. Time you admitted defeat, don’t you think? She’s out and still not out, you know what I mean, like people like you keep telling us how irrelevant she has become.
Unless your generals are desperately plotting again to take her out and not botch it this time like in Depayin, and no Burmese in their right mind would put it past our enlightened rulers, your hopes will be dashed again.
Inflation and iconography: the new 100,000 Kip banknote in Laos
Very beautiful banknote
I’m sure that Laos will issue a new banknotes denominations
because 100000 Kip is only $12
Streckfuss on reform of the institution
р╕Эр╕гр╕▒р╕З р╕Зр╕З (or do you mean р╕Эр╕гр╕▒р╣Ир╕З р╕Зр╕З?):
Can be you specific? “They”: all of them in unison? “the King has worked out everything”: worked out what?
What did they say? How did they relate this to what you said about trusting their own observations?
The general attitude you describe is not surprising, but your comment sounds too pat.
Zarni takes aim at Burma experts
Hmm zero sum equations of Ko Zarni:
1)Pro Daw Aung San Suu Kyi= Pro Democracy.
2)Pro Business= Anti Sanction=Anti Daw Aung San Suu Kyi
Or any variations of above 2.
Without Daw Aung San Suu Kyi in any formulation of Myanmar welfare thus become automatically nonsense and unsustainable.
The West businesses and pragmatists that bypass the presumed center of universe are “stupid. wrong etc.”
The equation that Ko Zarni need to dignify is:
Myanmar Citizenry benefit тЙа (never equal or much more than) the total sum of SPDC vs Daw Aung San Suu Kyi.
He has inadvertently proven Daw Aung San Suu Kyi’s relevance only make sense with continued present useless careless West’s policy.
As proof?
Look no further than his Myanmar that is defined only by Daw Aung San Suu Kyi vs SPDC paradigm.
Streckfuss on reform of the institution
Free Chiranuch Premchaiporn!
Laos too poor to get any poorer
re. Seng and Richard jackson : the price of gold has gone up enormously in the past few years – so there’s no reason Australian mining companies would close any of their mines in Laos mining that !
Streckfuss on reform of the institution
Everyone can see a major overhaul is required with Thai school system. Encourage individual thinking and say that again 10 times. Same applies at university level.
Do not cane someone who asks a question in class…
Priority number one
RN and WLH : re. Royal factionalism – there is actually some evidence for this, in the fact that a prominent Thanpuying took to the stage at a major Red Shirt rally and spoke to the crowd in
support.
Prelude to the bridge tragedy
#14 john francis lee
my thoughts exactly.
As for the traffic concerned trainspotters, I just returned from Cambodia to Thailand. Thai traffic is I would say (driving most days in BKK) better and more considerate than French or Italian I have had misfortune to take part in … UK is far better in regard of law and USA varies.
Sonthi is a political animal, although some of his actions could be described as delusional or plain crazy.
These anti-cambodian comments are out of line. On Cambodian side there is no love lost for Thais either, for a reason too. But on both sides of border, people would like to live their lives and benefit from commerce. There are still families divided.
People’s Alliance against Democracy
Prayuth’s actions speak for themselves. Other classes of -x are not happy with this.
john francis lee:
“The CEO of the Bangkok Post is named Supakorn Vejjajiva and a contributor to the editorial pages is Suranand Vejjajiva”
Interesting. You have hard links to prove this? (In many countries you could just check this on the internet, as in company registry website).
How hardline have the redshirts become?
Nick – and the others talking in support of increasing evidence many Red Shirts are becoming more anti-monarchy – where do you see their political position going ?
Obviously the South (except perhaps Pattani), and non-Red areas of Bangkok, and much of the Central Plains, are unlikely to support a republic.
Streckfuss on reform of the institution
p.s. Talking about overwhelming evidence, the Abac Poll published a couple of weeks ago showed that 76 percent of Thais see nothing wrong with corruption.
The most mind-blowing bit of the report, for me, was this:
“… the government will ask the Ministry of Culture to combat such attitudes by building a new culture, creating a new consciousness for the Thai people…”
I honestly don’t know where to begin on that one.
Streckfuss on reform of the institution
I’m not suggesting that there is no ‘brainwashing’ in Thai schools (or the whole cradle-to-grave culture, if you prefer) – there patently is. But surely the deeper question is: why don’t more Thais see through it? Thai brainwashing is as subtle as a punch in the face (the MoSo? Promoted by people whose most notable attribute is the way their families flaunt their ‘unusual wealth’ in gross acts of conspicuous consumption?)
The point about English Literature is key, I think. However narrow and reactionary the British school system might have been, it could hardly avoid exposing pupils to Dickens, Orwell etc. Equally, in history classes: the peasants’ revolt, the Civil War, the reform of the House of Lords etc. In other words, it was the accumulated political self-consciousness of the people themselves that provided the counterweight to any attempt at brainwashing.
Which is why I think that ‘emergence from self-imposed childhood’ is the key. I see no significant signs of it among the Thai university students that I teach. But perhaps that’s looking in the wrong place?
Laos too poor to get any poorer
Laos country way too poor to have the economic impact like other country. Compare to other country off course, because the country over poor. Since, the economic crisis China import and export to Laos is cut back almost 70% trade. Laos people are relyon other country like china and vietname to be their back bone. Other smart country like Australia, and China are the one who feeding Laos.
The gorvernment sold Laos Dirt to China for alot of money, which is Laos people don’t even know, the money was keep in secret contract for Lease for 99 years. At the time Laos people wake up then Chinese establish their own Litle country inside downtown and concord the whole country. They will make Laos people become more slave and have no power over anything. People china bought all the Land. The rich people own the Land and the Poor Laos work as slave for the Rich of the Land. Government are the Trader who work above all other that’s why Laos people are so poor. Now, Laos people have to realize what has happen to the Country. Don’t let other people use your country as slave. Use your head Laos people. How long you will be under control of other country? Wake up! Wake up!
Thailand’s climate of repression
Please feel free to post and/or comment.
Thank you.
Frank G Anderson
Status of Criminal Defamation Case Against Frank G Anderson
On 29 November 2010, a representative of Frank G Anderson appeared as scheduled at Rachadaphisek Criminal Court, Prosecutor’s office Section 7, to listen to progress being made in a criminal defamation case filed against Anderson by UK national Akbar Khan, the latter expelled from the Foreign Correspondents Club for alleged ethical violations incompatible with membership obligations.
Since February 2010, Anderson has appeared before police and the prosecutor some two dozen times, ostensibly to acknowledge criminal defamation allegations Khan made against him for material Khan claims defamed him on Anderson’s website, http://www.thekoratpost.com . Anderson’s online commentary critiqued Khan for pursuing several lese majeste charges against others in Thailand.
Anderson reports that beginning with the first visit to the police in response to a summons, he informed police that they should never have asked him to appear based on faulty English-to-Thai translated material khan gave to police to support his defamation case. Anderson told the police they should have immediately told Khan to have any relevant material translated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and then attach that to his plaint. Police never did this.
It was sometime in September 2010 that Anderson finally learned from the prosecutor that the indicated mis-translated material had finally been sent to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. But even up to late November there was no apparent progress in the case.
At the 29 November 2010 appearance, Anderson’s representative was informed that the prosecutor would consult with police to determine whether Anderson should be formally charged with criminal defamation or not. If the prosecutor decides to proceed with charges, Anderson will be required to put up 50,000 Baht personal guarantee to remain free.
Prosecutor states that a decision to prosecute or not will be made by 13 December 2010.
Streckfuss on reform of the institution
#10: You’re missing a very important point here. In the 50s, U.S., U.K., and Australian schools did teach History and Social Studies, for example, in a much narrower “ideological” way than they do now. However, at the same time they were teaching English Literature, a good deal of which is socially critical, and they were introducing students to debating and academic writing, which depend on skepticism, & analytical & critical skills, and this undercut much of the ‘brainwashing’ for many students. Further, the Humanities faculties of universities were populated by a significant percentage of teachers who saw the dangers of extreme patriotism & other right-wing ideological viewpoints, and so strove to introduce their students to alternatives, as well as training them in clearer thinking.
In Thailand, where students are still required to go along with the opinions drilled into them by their teachers, and are not taught how to write argumentatively, the brainwashing is much more effective. For many Thai students, testing, all the way up to undergraduate degree-level is done exclusively with ‘multiple choice’ questions, in which there is only one ‘correct’ answer, chosen by the examiners. As Tom Hoy has pointed out on NM, there is an inherent ideological component in such tests, & no training in reasoning is necessary.
Learning to write is learning to think. Developing the capacity to analyse and criticise, to commit to an opinion on the basis of one’s own reasoning, and to be able to let go of it when one sees that it was ‘wrong’, are all contributors to the development of emotional maturity.