People should be prudent not to quickly believe information passed on by others as “absolute truth”.
Until Steve (#7) questioned my ‘Baht 100 million’ poster, I had actually completely forgotten from where my “truth’ came from. And surely enough Leah Hoyt (#22) got it right, I was guilty of not only double-checking my numbers and my source, and had actually raised the number by a digit . . . my oh my.
Was BangkokDan story true or not?
“The other day I met Ajahn A., a good friend, strictly in the middle of the mess, who knows a former teacher of Nattawut. So this teacher, himself unsure whom to believe, asked Nattawut why he’s doing all this. Said Nattawut: ‘Have you ever felt the power of ten million baht in your hand?’ “
Thing is I personally admire BangkokDan and that perhaps is why I believed BangkokDan when he posted above story about Nattawut. Hell, nearly every Red leader and every Red get some form of pecuniary Thaksin reward . . .
I think you miss steve point totally, he did not insulting you because you raise the number from 10 to 100 but because you believed this non-sense tabloid from BangkokDan within even question its legitimacy.
The Devil’s Discus in Thai-р╕Бр╕Зр╕Ир╕▒р╕Бр╕гр╕Ыр╕╡р╕ир╕▓р╕И-for sale again
Mindful readers of this thread may remember that photocopies of р╕Бр╕Зр╕Ир╕▒р╕Бр╕гр╕Ыр╕╡р╕ир╕▓р╕И were for sale at Sondhi Limthongkul’s pre-PAD Lumpini Park rallies.
However, we have recently seen very handsome perfect-bound reprints of р╕Бр╕Зр╕Ир╕▒р╕Бр╕гр╕Ыр╕╡р╕ир╕▓р╕И with black cover. The covers have been reset and the pages clear and legible. The only change appears to be the addition of a date at the bottom of the book’s spine: 2489. This, of course, is not the date of publication but the year of King Ananda’s death: 1946.
р╕Бр╕Зр╕Ир╕▒р╕Бр╕гр╕Ыр╕╡р╕ир╕▓р╕И was first printed by the Thammasat University Political Science Students in 1974. Although The Devil’s Discus in English had been banned from its first printing in 1964, р╕Бр╕Зр╕Ир╕▒р╕Бр╕гр╕Ыр╕╡р╕ир╕▓р╕И was not banned until May 31, 2006, 32 years after it was published. The coup govt used the 1941 Printing Act’s Article 9 to ban the book from being sold or given away.
It appears no one has been arrested over the ban of р╕Бр╕Зр╕Ир╕▒р╕Бр╕гр╕Ыр╕╡р╕ир╕▓р╕И, however, it is unclear whether its possession is a crime under the coup’s 2007 Printing Act.
The new book may be print-on-demand. Would love to know more!
I have had a conversation with a Goldman Sachs and a DB fund managers both stationed in Singapore, they seems to be very well aware of the situation (about revolution and elite so on). However, they seem to be taking his time with the investment here. The reason being that they don’t see any rapid change within 2 years so as long as no major event happen within this 2 years they assumed that everything is fine until then.
From that conversation I think they are very well aware of the situation and express concern to some extend, but they perceive the revolution as something in the far future. In addition, I don’t see any concern about leftist stance amount some Red since none of the prominent red leaders shows any anti-capitalism stance.
Re blocks: as mentioned previously here, pasting the link into Google Translate also produces a 99% readable result. It won’t “translate” from English to English, so pick another as the “from” language – Chinese works well enough.
I think that’s a bit hard to say — it would depend on each business — some may even stand to profit from a revolution! The worry of business circles would mimic the worry of ‘societal circles’. So if you’re implying international business circles are in cahoots with conservative royalists, then sure, they’d be more worried if the reds ‘were developing serious revolutionary potential’, but I don’t think international business circles are aligned one way or the other. They’re aligned to the Baht, which seems to stay relatively stable throughout crises. They could be equally intrigued about new opportunity as apprehensive about a post-revolutionary Thailand. A few months of lock down while it hits the fan is hardly going to inhibit international business in Thailand for the rest of eternity…
One way round blocks is to search for what you want in Google and then click on the “cached” button next to the link. This will give you essentially a still image of the page you want taken at some point in the near past, usually last few hours. Any links on the page are unliely to work but at least you can read it. It is also almost impossible to block as it is updated every few hours and therefore the url changes almost constantly.
Also, using http:// with the url without www. can often work. Also try typing https:// if that doesn’t work.
You have actually done us all a service by revealing how the right wing yellow shirt rumor mill works. Take a “someone told someone, who told someone something” story, multiply by ten, post it broadly and then call it “much quoted” or “well-known”.
Thanks Steve (#20) for the correction. If what you say Steve (#20) is true, then I am disappointed in myself for unduly raising the ‘professional pay scales’ of Red leaders unduly.
Only Baht 10 million for Nattawut, eh? Amazing what these Reds would do for money!
“I am certain I have read that Nattawut much quoted ‘have you ever touched 100 million baht’ response to his teacher in some Thai newspaper(s) (could be Post or Nation, I am not sure) around Mar-May 2010”
Not exactly. After reading your reply and following an instinct, I found this:
“The other day I met Ajahn A., a good friend, strictly in the middle of the mess, who knows a former teacher of Nattawut. So this teacher, himself unsure whom to believe, asked Nattawut why he’s doing all this. Said Nattawut: ‘Have you ever felt the power of ten million baht in your hand?’ “
That is your source? “much quoted”, you say? By you, yes – except that just four days later you’ve upped it from 10 million to 100 million for your Reuters comment (link above in c7) since recycled here and who knows where else?
I’ll leave others to draw their own conclusions about this.
In the Singaporean universe, most would probably feel that SGD 10,000 for bail is being exceedingly kind since the fine for forgetting to display a seasonal parking ticket is also SGD 10,000.
Ask, demand, request, etc whatever word you like to use its all of the same meaning. Moreover, violence doesn’t actually start until the military start their operation. Did you see any people get hurt prior to April 10th?
Abhisit offer earlier election yes, but he didn’t make sure that he will keep to his word, you can read Anterdam letter to ICC about that I think he got a better wording and timeline than me. Furthermore, the deadline behind September is very useless since it was right after the promotion season, the whole reason to ask for early election is exactly to keep people like Prayuth away, now it doesn’t matter anymore.
There were elections in April 2006, but they were invalidated by the Constitutional Court.
If you really watched the leaked clips you should know by now that Constitution Court is running by the elite and those that ally with the establishment so the whole 2006 election invalidation of the Constitution Court by itself is unconstitutional. Furthermore, there’s not a single indication that it will be posponed, Thaksin never actually afraid of election, he was “thirst” for it, unlike the Democrat party which really bring the question of who really benefit from the coup. Not to mention the later dissolution of the TRT and PPP, there’s nothing democratic about political party dissolution or retrospective law exercise by the Constitution Court as well, how can you put so much faint in that Constitution Court when the clips obviously show that they are heavily politicize?
The 2006 coup has been used as a talking point against the government, despite the fact that Thaksin’s proxies themselves got back into power anyway after the coup.
You speak as if everything is fine so far as there’s an election, but did election solve anything? did the coup makes anything better?
I’d say one of the major reasons is Thaksin’s money
Now I’ve been argue with such an argument many times in NM, so let me get this straight with you, you think the 92 people that die during April-May really die for Thaksin money? Did you know that there are about 20 other individual in Thailand that are wealthier than Thaksin and got their proxies everywhere in almost every political parties? How much do you think a democracy “cost”?
Thaksin also implemented populist policies to win the hearts of the rural poor so that they would vote him into power, however the policies were of only short term benefit to the poor
How do you gauge which policies is long term or short term? last time I check Abhisit still continue using Thaksin’s policies only after he changed the name, so what are you trying to say here?
If there was a coup against the Abhisit government, I don’t know how I would feel, however I would not condone or engage in acts of violence or terrorism,
Even your right has been violently violated you wouldn’t do a thing? I rest my case.
The Socialist Workers Party Ralph. Afraid you will have to wade through their website looking for their position on the break-up of Yugoslavia and the Iranian Revolutionary Guards.
Les, do you think the other three would, or are capable of, making a speech like this?
You know when Tony Blair had just got into politics and was looking for a constituency seat to fight for, he made many speeches to Constituency Labour Parties trying to get their nomination. Shirley Williams, another British politician, says that he was quite happy to appear very left wing and call everyone “Comrade”.
Professional politicians are capable of doing many things to move up their career path. Making speeches is just one of them.
so Nattawut threw out the challenge to the government/amart… “think of how this crowd can burn bangkok if you come to destroy us”
so the always smart (greedy) amart thought they had their chance to burn a few well insured buildings for their own business benefit
while the army was in control, the protesters had fled and were cowering and being shot by snipers the amart (BJT) people set about burning and looting
Whatever else one thinks about Nidhi, this is surely the most common, most redundant cliché of all Thai politics :
“Nidhi compared their language to food flavours. Nattawut’s speech is like clear tom yam soup that villagers make – spicy, vinegary and salty all at once, with a hint of sweetness and the strong aromas of lemon grass, kaffir lime leaves and fresh hot chilli peppers. Nattawut has made a career out of his peppery language”.
Ask iron chef Samak’s ghost – that Tom Yam soup cliché has been done to death !!
Nattawut is good? Yeah? what he has done during the violence was through his public speaking talent. Remember he won this debate show since he was a young boy.
For Nattawut, Thailand’s political problems stem from the intransigence of the amatya, …you said.
Hence, the prai has the right to arson! As the leader of the angry protestors, would you mention thing like this…”Tomorrow just come here with a bottle and oil and burn Bangkok. It’s my responsibility, just burn the City” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2sF9-osjQ4
You new Mandala people..you need to think because you are Professors, right? use your brain and logic to see through this situation.
I am certain I have read that Nattawut much quoted ‘have you ever touched 100 million baht’ response to his teacher in some Thai newspaper(s) (could be Post or Nation, I am not sure) around Mar-May 2010.
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Review of Nattawut Saikua biography
Tarrin (#23) perhaps you right.
People should be prudent not to quickly believe information passed on by others as “absolute truth”.
Until Steve (#7) questioned my ‘Baht 100 million’ poster, I had actually completely forgotten from where my “truth’ came from. And surely enough Leah Hoyt (#22) got it right, I was guilty of not only double-checking my numbers and my source, and had actually raised the number by a digit . . . my oh my.
Was BangkokDan story true or not?
“The other day I met Ajahn A., a good friend, strictly in the middle of the mess, who knows a former teacher of Nattawut. So this teacher, himself unsure whom to believe, asked Nattawut why he’s doing all this. Said Nattawut: ‘Have you ever felt the power of ten million baht in your hand?’ “
BangkokDan on May 13th, 2010 8:48 am – http://absolutelybangkok.com/a-real-ultimatum-really/
Thing is I personally admire BangkokDan and that perhaps is why I believed BangkokDan when he posted above story about Nattawut. Hell, nearly every Red leader and every Red get some form of pecuniary Thaksin reward . . .
Review of Nattawut Saikua biography
Vichi N – 21
I think you miss steve point totally, he did not insulting you because you raise the number from 10 to 100 but because you believed this non-sense tabloid from BangkokDan within even question its legitimacy.
The Devil’s Discus – in Thai
The Devil’s Discus in Thai-р╕Бр╕Зр╕Ир╕▒р╕Бр╕гр╕Ыр╕╡р╕ир╕▓р╕И-for sale again
Mindful readers of this thread may remember that photocopies of р╕Бр╕Зр╕Ир╕▒р╕Бр╕гр╕Ыр╕╡р╕ир╕▓р╕И were for sale at Sondhi Limthongkul’s pre-PAD Lumpini Park rallies.
However, we have recently seen very handsome perfect-bound reprints of р╕Бр╕Зр╕Ир╕▒р╕Бр╕гр╕Ыр╕╡р╕ир╕▓р╕И with black cover. The covers have been reset and the pages clear and legible. The only change appears to be the addition of a date at the bottom of the book’s spine: 2489. This, of course, is not the date of publication but the year of King Ananda’s death: 1946.
р╕Бр╕Зр╕Ир╕▒р╕Бр╕гр╕Ыр╕╡р╕ир╕▓р╕И was first printed by the Thammasat University Political Science Students in 1974. Although The Devil’s Discus in English had been banned from its first printing in 1964, р╕Бр╕Зр╕Ир╕▒р╕Бр╕гр╕Ыр╕╡р╕ир╕▓р╕И was not banned until May 31, 2006, 32 years after it was published. The coup govt used the 1941 Printing Act’s Article 9 to ban the book from being sold or given away.
It appears no one has been arrested over the ban of р╕Бр╕Зр╕Ир╕▒р╕Бр╕гр╕Ыр╕╡р╕ир╕▓р╕И, however, it is unclear whether its possession is a crime under the coup’s 2007 Printing Act.
The new book may be print-on-demand. Would love to know more!
Come the revolution?
I have had a conversation with a Goldman Sachs and a DB fund managers both stationed in Singapore, they seems to be very well aware of the situation (about revolution and elite so on). However, they seem to be taking his time with the investment here. The reason being that they don’t see any rapid change within 2 years so as long as no major event happen within this 2 years they assumed that everything is fine until then.
From that conversation I think they are very well aware of the situation and express concern to some extend, but they perceive the revolution as something in the far future. In addition, I don’t see any concern about leftist stance amount some Red since none of the prominent red leaders shows any anti-capitalism stance.
King Bhumibol’s enduring hospitalisation
Re blocks: as mentioned previously here, pasting the link into Google Translate also produces a 99% readable result. It won’t “translate” from English to English, so pick another as the “from” language – Chinese works well enough.
Come the revolution?
I think that’s a bit hard to say — it would depend on each business — some may even stand to profit from a revolution! The worry of business circles would mimic the worry of ‘societal circles’. So if you’re implying international business circles are in cahoots with conservative royalists, then sure, they’d be more worried if the reds ‘were developing serious revolutionary potential’, but I don’t think international business circles are aligned one way or the other. They’re aligned to the Baht, which seems to stay relatively stable throughout crises. They could be equally intrigued about new opportunity as apprehensive about a post-revolutionary Thailand. A few months of lock down while it hits the fan is hardly going to inhibit international business in Thailand for the rest of eternity…
King Bhumibol’s enduring hospitalisation
One way round blocks is to search for what you want in Google and then click on the “cached” button next to the link. This will give you essentially a still image of the page you want taken at some point in the near past, usually last few hours. Any links on the page are unliely to work but at least you can read it. It is also almost impossible to block as it is updated every few hours and therefore the url changes almost constantly.
Also, using http:// with the url without www. can often work. Also try typing https:// if that doesn’t work.
For example, I found http://www.prachatai.com is blocked, while http://prachatai.com is not.
Review of Nattawut Saikua biography
Vichai,
You have actually done us all a service by revealing how the right wing yellow shirt rumor mill works. Take a “someone told someone, who told someone something” story, multiply by ten, post it broadly and then call it “much quoted” or “well-known”.
Review of Nattawut Saikua biography
Thanks Steve (#20) for the correction. If what you say Steve (#20) is true, then I am disappointed in myself for unduly raising the ‘professional pay scales’ of Red leaders unduly.
Only Baht 10 million for Nattawut, eh? Amazing what these Reds would do for money!
Review of Nattawut Saikua biography
To Vichai N (c13)
“I am certain I have read that Nattawut much quoted ‘have you ever touched 100 million baht’ response to his teacher in some Thai newspaper(s) (could be Post or Nation, I am not sure) around Mar-May 2010”
Not exactly. After reading your reply and following an instinct, I found this:
“The other day I met Ajahn A., a good friend, strictly in the middle of the mess, who knows a former teacher of Nattawut. So this teacher, himself unsure whom to believe, asked Nattawut why he’s doing all this. Said Nattawut: ‘Have you ever felt the power of ten million baht in your hand?’ “
BangkokDan on May 13th, 2010 8:48 am – http://absolutelybangkok.com/a-real-ultimatum-really/
That is your source? “much quoted”, you say? By you, yes – except that just four days later you’ve upped it from 10 million to 100 million for your Reuters comment (link above in c7) since recycled here and who knows where else?
I’ll leave others to draw their own conclusions about this.
Once a Jolly Hangman: Singapore Justice in the Dock
In the Singaporean universe, most would probably feel that SGD 10,000 for bail is being exceedingly kind since the fine for forgetting to display a seasonal parking ticket is also SGD 10,000.
Robert Amsterdam’s preliminary submission to the International Criminal Court
Hyper – 15
Ask, demand, request, etc whatever word you like to use its all of the same meaning. Moreover, violence doesn’t actually start until the military start their operation. Did you see any people get hurt prior to April 10th?
Abhisit offer earlier election yes, but he didn’t make sure that he will keep to his word, you can read Anterdam letter to ICC about that I think he got a better wording and timeline than me. Furthermore, the deadline behind September is very useless since it was right after the promotion season, the whole reason to ask for early election is exactly to keep people like Prayuth away, now it doesn’t matter anymore.
There were elections in April 2006, but they were invalidated by the Constitutional Court.
If you really watched the leaked clips you should know by now that Constitution Court is running by the elite and those that ally with the establishment so the whole 2006 election invalidation of the Constitution Court by itself is unconstitutional. Furthermore, there’s not a single indication that it will be posponed, Thaksin never actually afraid of election, he was “thirst” for it, unlike the Democrat party which really bring the question of who really benefit from the coup. Not to mention the later dissolution of the TRT and PPP, there’s nothing democratic about political party dissolution or retrospective law exercise by the Constitution Court as well, how can you put so much faint in that Constitution Court when the clips obviously show that they are heavily politicize?
The 2006 coup has been used as a talking point against the government, despite the fact that Thaksin’s proxies themselves got back into power anyway after the coup.
You speak as if everything is fine so far as there’s an election, but did election solve anything? did the coup makes anything better?
I’d say one of the major reasons is Thaksin’s money
Now I’ve been argue with such an argument many times in NM, so let me get this straight with you, you think the 92 people that die during April-May really die for Thaksin money? Did you know that there are about 20 other individual in Thailand that are wealthier than Thaksin and got their proxies everywhere in almost every political parties? How much do you think a democracy “cost”?
Thaksin also implemented populist policies to win the hearts of the rural poor so that they would vote him into power, however the policies were of only short term benefit to the poor
How do you gauge which policies is long term or short term? last time I check Abhisit still continue using Thaksin’s policies only after he changed the name, so what are you trying to say here?
If there was a coup against the Abhisit government, I don’t know how I would feel, however I would not condone or engage in acts of violence or terrorism,
Even your right has been violently violated you wouldn’t do a thing? I rest my case.
Ji Ungpakorn on the military and the monarchy
Ralph Kramden – 25
Les: More specifics, please.
The Socialist Workers Party Ralph. Afraid you will have to wade through their website looking for their position on the break-up of Yugoslavia and the Iranian Revolutionary Guards.
Try the party website at http://www.swp.org.uk/
The British SWP is the continuation of Tony Cliff’s old International Socialists, one of the many splits within the Trotskyist movement.
Review of Nattawut Saikua biography
David Brown – 17
…the amart (BJT) people set about burning and looting
David, maybe wait for Thaksin to come back before you rewrite history. There will be some good openings for hacks then.
Review of Nattawut Saikua biography
Nganadeeleg – 12
Les, do you think the other three would, or are capable of, making a speech like this?
You know when Tony Blair had just got into politics and was looking for a constituency seat to fight for, he made many speeches to Constituency Labour Parties trying to get their nomination. Shirley Williams, another British politician, says that he was quite happy to appear very left wing and call everyone “Comrade”.
Professional politicians are capable of doing many things to move up their career path. Making speeches is just one of them.
Review of Nattawut Saikua biography
so Nattawut threw out the challenge to the government/amart… “think of how this crowd can burn bangkok if you come to destroy us”
so the always smart (greedy) amart thought they had their chance to burn a few well insured buildings for their own business benefit
while the army was in control, the protesters had fled and were cowering and being shot by snipers the amart (BJT) people set about burning and looting
Review of Nattawut Saikua biography
Nattawut Saikua – Hero
Review of Nattawut Saikua biography
Whatever else one thinks about Nidhi, this is surely the most common, most redundant cliché of all Thai politics :
“Nidhi compared their language to food flavours. Nattawut’s speech is like clear tom yam soup that villagers make – spicy, vinegary and salty all at once, with a hint of sweetness and the strong aromas of lemon grass, kaffir lime leaves and fresh hot chilli peppers. Nattawut has made a career out of his peppery language”.
Ask iron chef Samak’s ghost – that Tom Yam soup cliché has been done to death !!
Review of Nattawut Saikua biography
Nattawut is good? Yeah? what he has done during the violence was through his public speaking talent. Remember he won this debate show since he was a young boy.
For Nattawut, Thailand’s political problems stem from the intransigence of the amatya, …you said.
Hence, the prai has the right to arson! As the leader of the angry protestors, would you mention thing like this…”Tomorrow just come here with a bottle and oil and burn Bangkok. It’s my responsibility, just burn the City”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2sF9-osjQ4
You new Mandala people..you need to think because you are Professors, right? use your brain and logic to see through this situation.
Review of Nattawut Saikua biography
To Steve (#7) –
I am certain I have read that Nattawut much quoted ‘have you ever touched 100 million baht’ response to his teacher in some Thai newspaper(s) (could be Post or Nation, I am not sure) around Mar-May 2010.