It seems like an appropriate time to call for a good discussion on Education in Thailand, from Anuban to tertiary. Teaching methods, discipline, the scouting movement, suppression of discussions of anything which may lead into areas of political history, victimisation of children from Redshirt families, shoddy textbooks, the corruption of some teachers, admin., Teachers’ Council & MOE, overly-large classes, under-staffing in rural schools, dismal wages, the hypocrisy of Wai Krue, uniforms at tertiary institutions, & dreadful assessment systems are some of the issues which have been touched on in the past. How much of the failure of state education to move into a more progressive mode is due to the desire of the state to adhere to traditional social hierarchies and a constitutional framework which many now see as anachronistic?
Again this refrain ” . . . . anyhow, I just want to point out that DON’T TAKE THE REDS AS A MINDLESS LUMP OF MEAT that move on the leaders command . . .” (#34 Tarrin) almost beseeching for acknowledgment, pleading for understanding . . .
But history lessons will remind us that nations and peoples by the millions (and billions) could indeed very easily be manipulated into ‘mindless lumps of meat’ . . . Hitler’s genocidal Nazi’s, Mao’s rampaging Red Guards, Stalin’s murderous Bolsheviks, Mugabe’s killer-followers . . .
Why do the Reds continue to do Thaksin’s biddings then Tarrin?
Well, I came back again to find comments on this page
enabled on
1,4,5,6,7,8
and disabled on
2,3,9
I looked, noticed that my proxy was in use. Aha!
Switched if off, cleared the cache in my browser, re-fetched the page… no difference.
Closed the browser. Opened the browser. Cleared the cache. Fetched the page… no difference.
I looked at the html…. There is a wp comment-rating plugin which is dynamically generating the html.
It generates green and red images for the up and down images together with javascript to handle the selection for the enabled comments, and greyed out versions of the images and no javascript for the disabled comments.
As I say, I cannot divine the criteria the software is using, but it’s choosing which comments are selectable, up or down… on a per-user basis?
I’m sure you’re just using the software ‘out-of-the-box’, as we all are, and are unaware of how it works or what it actually does, as we all are.
Whaddya want for free, right?
That’s google’s marketing meme as well.
In the world we live in it’s certainly not burning issue number 1… or even 10. But be aware that your software is selectively enabling and disabling voting in your comment section, probably not on a random basis.
It is useless to deploy troops in Bangkok districts and surrounding provinces because K. Sombat is an elusive guy who moves from one place to another for his “symbolic” campaigns. His weekly campaigns are held everywhere — on the 17th will be Ayuthaya and the 31st a certain city in Isan.
No wonder the yellows voiced concern over his symbolic tactics as you can see in the report below:
By the end of the year, Sombat would have covered the entire Isan and Lanna where local people become enlightened (ta sawang) as to what is happening in this military-controlled country.
There has been an intense propaganda campaign waged by the DSI/CRES and compliant MSM asserting that a group/groups of red-shirts have been training in Cambodia (by Cambodian soldiers!) to assassinate Abhisit and Suthep and to overthrow the monarchy.
These have been conflated with the the ‘red-shirt’ bomber of Nonthaburi.
There has not been a single shred of proof of any of this, either offered by The Regime or demanded The Media, at all.
The only thing that is known for sure is that the Thai Military has kidnapped some Thais (11 is the asserted number) and are holding them incommunicando somewhere in Thailand. And, come to think of it, that’s not even known for sure.
All the alleged ‘evidence’ is based on ‘confessions’ of these 11. The eleven have not been produced, have not even been charged, it is unknown if they are still alive, or in fact exist at all.
The alleged ‘bomber’ of Nonthaburi is said to have been a red-shirt guard who ‘mysteriously disappeared’ the night before the final holocaust at Ratchaprasong in May. His fingerprints are said to have been found on a severed arm at the bomb site. The local police general ran Porntip off the site in a fury when she showed up to gather evidence. The alleged bomber could as easily have been an infiltrator under pay of The Regime as a ‘red-shirt’ guard, and it’s not at all sure that the arm found was severed after the explosion rather than before, nor whether it was detached from its body at or away from the bomb site.
I personally don’t a single word of any of it.
I’d be interested to hear the views of the panel not only on this absurd ‘media happening’ itself but also on the state of the Thai media that allows an absurd circus like to take the place of bona fide reportage.
It certainly seems to me that the Thai MSM are the ‘willing dupes’ of The Regime itself, gleefully complicit in putting over the ‘Big Lie’, no matter what mis/dis-informing that requires on their part.
Thanks to everyone for all of these helpful suggestions:
There is plenty here that would reward further exploration on New Mandala, and elsewhere.
Perhaps my more eclectic inclinations are shining through but I would be delighted to hear from those with an interest in writing about any such topics. As long-time readers know, we maintain a relatively open-minded approach to guest contributions. We don’t promise to publish everything we receive; but we will give all contributions fair consideration. This invitation is particularly to emerging scholars/analysts/practitioners/activists/etc looking for a wider audience.
Please feel free to get in touch.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
P.S. On the topic of guest contributions, as some of you will recall we have a standing invitation to Chris Beale to give us his full analysis of the Isan secession scenario… We are still waiting for Chris to take up this challenge.
Absolutely the money goes to the villagers and the company pays the compensation to them who effect from the dam. But I believed that these compensations can’t raise their life forever and the environment that effected can’t revive again. The local people depend on forest and rivers to be their feeding ground for many years and never goggle to the money compensation but when the investors came, the indigenous people change their lives. Do you know, local people are lack of knowledge they see only the money but they don’t think to the effect in their future. we who have knowledge, who know the effect to their culture, tradition , their lifestyle and feeding area why we don’t urge them to preserve their original way of life. I don’t think Laos will use local villages’ area to make money. I know the law of Laos but do you think the local people know the law?
Thank you
Sincerity
Surachai Sae Dan (Surachai Danwattananusorn) the leader of Red Siam has been order to appear in court for insulting monarchy, he will appear before the court this 21th October. Maybe someone might try to bring this topic to the discussion?
Actually, I suspected that your suggestion to investigate the bombings was really just a trick to try to repeat royalist talking points about the latest bomb related gossip, which seems right.
I reiterate the call to thoroughly investigate all bombings (since 2005) in an open and transparent way, so that the public can learn the truth.
As I mentioned, there have been dozens, if not hundreds of bombings, including real massacres such as the New Years eve explosions. I suggest that an open investigation with the participation of international agencies conduct a scientific investigation and make as much of the information as possible public.
This is not at all the same as acting as a PR arm of the DSI, which is what LesAbbey seems to think is needed. In fact, my intention is the opposite. I want an impartial review of the facts to be made public. This would have to be done in the sunlight by non-partisan, or at least representative, groups.
The army, the DSI and Pornthip are on one team. No one could possibly believe their views are credible.
Since an actual open and transparent process is impossible in Thailand, it seems like an ideal role for international forum that could incorporate the views of all sides – and those that don’t have a side.
So, rather than starting my summarizing Sopon’s latest Nation column, let’s look at the facts. There will be time to to deal with the ramifications of the results. But anyone calling for an execution before the trial is a partisan, in my view.
…but I have to criticize the Red leaders like Veera and Jatuporn for making wrong tactical and strategic decision. Veera in particular is the most dirty of the bunch and I have no respect for the man.
Seems like he got at least one decision right Tarrin. He got out before it all ended so badly. Now will Jataporn agree with Methee and give us a muay Thai contest? That would be fun and quite cultural.
There are a couple of notes reflecting the generally-accurate but often not ‘truism’ that foreigners just don’t know or why things in Thailand are as they are. This prejudicial view comes from both Thais and foreigners blaming one another or themselves for not understanding or not knowing ‘the situation.’ A lot of truth to the claims, of course. Yet, the degree of ignorance on the part of both foreigners and Thais is phenomenal on the one hand, and hardly surprising on the other as we mature in various degrees based on our inklings and surroundings, our associates, etc.
As far as human rights seminars and academic discussions go, there is another conference coming up, Governance, Human Rights and Development: Challenges for Southeast Asia and Beyond, details of which are at http://www.icird.org. Note that 30 October is the deadline for abstracts.
hehe. Obviously my comment had ironic intent, which may not have come through. The bemoaned circumstance of the ‘typical lowly farang English teacher’ is one of those often-told anecdotes that illustrates how bizarre and ‘other-worldly’ Thailand can appear from a foreign perspective. A typical 30,000 per month salary for an English teacher appears modest, and the source of ridicule and scorn for many. But some farang teachers struggle to come to terms with their supposed lowly status while, at the same time, dealing with the obvious disconnect between their own earnings and those of their Thai colleagues (the average salary for a Thai graduate would be about a third of that). This is all a bit off topic, I know, but your description of ‘rich peasant’ would be laced with a certain humorous irony for many farang teachers!
Its not like I agree with your stance on the whole thing but I have to criticize the Red leaders like Veera and Jatuporn for making wrong tactical and strategic decision. Veera in particular is the most dirty of the bunch and I have no respect for the man. Anyhow, I just want to point out that dont take the Red as a mindless lump of meat that move on the leaders command, each group has its own way of fighting and each group also has their own ideology and principle. The huge turn out last 19 Sep pretty much prove that point.
Let’s face up to some local realities, intellectual beings from Planet Zarg. Hocus pocus is far more ‘sanuk’ and far more profitable than poker-faced western democracy.
Just how do you think this sow’s ear is going to become a silk purse, exactly!?
I believe the problem exists, but rural debt is certainly not limited to Thailand.
It is instead par for the course for farmers everywhere. Farming is cyclical, equipment must be purchased, stock or seed must be bought and should should all go right there is a good chance a crop yield will complete the cycle and clear the debt.
Should any factors like markets or weather interfere with the crop or decrease it in value, the downward spiral begins.
In many countries the independent farmer is all but extinct — only the multinationals or large farming co-ops are able to weather the ups and downs successfully.
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Topics for future discussion on New Mandala
It seems like an appropriate time to call for a good discussion on Education in Thailand, from Anuban to tertiary. Teaching methods, discipline, the scouting movement, suppression of discussions of anything which may lead into areas of political history, victimisation of children from Redshirt families, shoddy textbooks, the corruption of some teachers, admin., Teachers’ Council & MOE, overly-large classes, under-staffing in rural schools, dismal wages, the hypocrisy of Wai Krue, uniforms at tertiary institutions, & dreadful assessment systems are some of the issues which have been touched on in the past. How much of the failure of state education to move into a more progressive mode is due to the desire of the state to adhere to traditional social hierarchies and a constitutional framework which many now see as anachronistic?
Red art: Democracy Monument April 12 2010
Again this refrain ” . . . . anyhow, I just want to point out that DON’T TAKE THE REDS AS A MINDLESS LUMP OF MEAT that move on the leaders command . . .” (#34 Tarrin) almost beseeching for acknowledgment, pleading for understanding . . .
But history lessons will remind us that nations and peoples by the millions (and billions) could indeed very easily be manipulated into ‘mindless lumps of meat’ . . . Hitler’s genocidal Nazi’s, Mao’s rampaging Red Guards, Stalin’s murderous Bolsheviks, Mugabe’s killer-followers . . .
Why do the Reds continue to do Thaksin’s biddings then Tarrin?
On the Brink: Human Rights in Thailand
Well, I came back again to find comments on this page
enabled on
1,4,5,6,7,8
and disabled on
2,3,9
I looked, noticed that my proxy was in use. Aha!
Switched if off, cleared the cache in my browser, re-fetched the page… no difference.
Closed the browser. Opened the browser. Cleared the cache. Fetched the page… no difference.
I looked at the html…. There is a wp comment-rating plugin which is dynamically generating the html.
It generates green and red images for the up and down images together with javascript to handle the selection for the enabled comments, and greyed out versions of the images and no javascript for the disabled comments.
As I say, I cannot divine the criteria the software is using, but it’s choosing which comments are selectable, up or down… on a per-user basis?
I’m sure you’re just using the software ‘out-of-the-box’, as we all are, and are unaware of how it works or what it actually does, as we all are.
Whaddya want for free, right?
That’s google’s marketing meme as well.
In the world we live in it’s certainly not burning issue number 1… or even 10. But be aware that your software is selectively enabling and disabling voting in your comment section, probably not on a random basis.
On the Brink: Human Rights in Thailand
Chris, #5
It is useless to deploy troops in Bangkok districts and surrounding provinces because K. Sombat is an elusive guy who moves from one place to another for his “symbolic” campaigns. His weekly campaigns are held everywhere — on the 17th will be Ayuthaya and the 31st a certain city in Isan.
No wonder the yellows voiced concern over his symbolic tactics as you can see in the report below:
http://www.prachatai3.info/english/node/2081
By the end of the year, Sombat would have covered the entire Isan and Lanna where local people become enlightened (ta sawang) as to what is happening in this military-controlled country.
On the Brink: Human Rights in Thailand
Tarrin: what are the details on Surachai’s case now. Last I read was at PPT (http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2010/09/03/red-siam/).
Red art: Democracy Monument April 12 2010
LesAbbey – 35
Seems like he got at least one decision right Tarrin. He got out before it all ended so badly.
Everyone knows that the 19 May is inevitable, while Jatuporn and Natawuth decided to stay with the people, Veera instead choose to bail.
On the Brink: Human Rights in Thailand
There has been an intense propaganda campaign waged by the DSI/CRES and compliant MSM asserting that a group/groups of red-shirts have been training in Cambodia (by Cambodian soldiers!) to assassinate Abhisit and Suthep and to overthrow the monarchy.
These have been conflated with the the ‘red-shirt’ bomber of Nonthaburi.
There has not been a single shred of proof of any of this, either offered by The Regime or demanded The Media, at all.
The only thing that is known for sure is that the Thai Military has kidnapped some Thais (11 is the asserted number) and are holding them incommunicando somewhere in Thailand. And, come to think of it, that’s not even known for sure.
All the alleged ‘evidence’ is based on ‘confessions’ of these 11. The eleven have not been produced, have not even been charged, it is unknown if they are still alive, or in fact exist at all.
The alleged ‘bomber’ of Nonthaburi is said to have been a red-shirt guard who ‘mysteriously disappeared’ the night before the final holocaust at Ratchaprasong in May. His fingerprints are said to have been found on a severed arm at the bomb site. The local police general ran Porntip off the site in a fury when she showed up to gather evidence. The alleged bomber could as easily have been an infiltrator under pay of The Regime as a ‘red-shirt’ guard, and it’s not at all sure that the arm found was severed after the explosion rather than before, nor whether it was detached from its body at or away from the bomb site.
I personally don’t a single word of any of it.
I’d be interested to hear the views of the panel not only on this absurd ‘media happening’ itself but also on the state of the Thai media that allows an absurd circus like to take the place of bona fide reportage.
It certainly seems to me that the Thai MSM are the ‘willing dupes’ of The Regime itself, gleefully complicit in putting over the ‘Big Lie’, no matter what mis/dis-informing that requires on their part.
Topics for future discussion on New Mandala
Thanks to everyone for all of these helpful suggestions:
There is plenty here that would reward further exploration on New Mandala, and elsewhere.
Perhaps my more eclectic inclinations are shining through but I would be delighted to hear from those with an interest in writing about any such topics. As long-time readers know, we maintain a relatively open-minded approach to guest contributions. We don’t promise to publish everything we receive; but we will give all contributions fair consideration. This invitation is particularly to emerging scholars/analysts/practitioners/activists/etc looking for a wider audience.
Please feel free to get in touch.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
P.S. On the topic of guest contributions, as some of you will recall we have a standing invitation to Chris Beale to give us his full analysis of the Isan secession scenario… We are still waiting for Chris to take up this challenge.
The Nam Tha dam
Absolutely the money goes to the villagers and the company pays the compensation to them who effect from the dam. But I believed that these compensations can’t raise their life forever and the environment that effected can’t revive again. The local people depend on forest and rivers to be their feeding ground for many years and never goggle to the money compensation but when the investors came, the indigenous people change their lives. Do you know, local people are lack of knowledge they see only the money but they don’t think to the effect in their future. we who have knowledge, who know the effect to their culture, tradition , their lifestyle and feeding area why we don’t urge them to preserve their original way of life. I don’t think Laos will use local villages’ area to make money. I know the law of Laos but do you think the local people know the law?
Thank you
Sincerity
On the Brink: Human Rights in Thailand
Surachai Sae Dan (Surachai Danwattananusorn) the leader of Red Siam has been order to appear in court for insulting monarchy, he will appear before the court this 21th October. Maybe someone might try to bring this topic to the discussion?
Topics for future discussion on New Mandala
LesAbbey,
Actually, I suspected that your suggestion to investigate the bombings was really just a trick to try to repeat royalist talking points about the latest bomb related gossip, which seems right.
I reiterate the call to thoroughly investigate all bombings (since 2005) in an open and transparent way, so that the public can learn the truth.
As I mentioned, there have been dozens, if not hundreds of bombings, including real massacres such as the New Years eve explosions. I suggest that an open investigation with the participation of international agencies conduct a scientific investigation and make as much of the information as possible public.
This is not at all the same as acting as a PR arm of the DSI, which is what LesAbbey seems to think is needed. In fact, my intention is the opposite. I want an impartial review of the facts to be made public. This would have to be done in the sunlight by non-partisan, or at least representative, groups.
The army, the DSI and Pornthip are on one team. No one could possibly believe their views are credible.
Since an actual open and transparent process is impossible in Thailand, it seems like an ideal role for international forum that could incorporate the views of all sides – and those that don’t have a side.
So, rather than starting my summarizing Sopon’s latest Nation column, let’s look at the facts. There will be time to to deal with the ramifications of the results. But anyone calling for an execution before the trial is a partisan, in my view.
Red art: Democracy Monument April 12 2010
Tarrin – 34
…but I have to criticize the Red leaders like Veera and Jatuporn for making wrong tactical and strategic decision. Veera in particular is the most dirty of the bunch and I have no respect for the man.
Seems like he got at least one decision right Tarrin. He got out before it all ended so badly. Now will Jataporn agree with Methee and give us a muay Thai contest? That would be fun and quite cultural.
On the Brink: Human Rights in Thailand
There are a couple of notes reflecting the generally-accurate but often not ‘truism’ that foreigners just don’t know or why things in Thailand are as they are. This prejudicial view comes from both Thais and foreigners blaming one another or themselves for not understanding or not knowing ‘the situation.’ A lot of truth to the claims, of course. Yet, the degree of ignorance on the part of both foreigners and Thais is phenomenal on the one hand, and hardly surprising on the other as we mature in various degrees based on our inklings and surroundings, our associates, etc.
As far as human rights seminars and academic discussions go, there is another conference coming up, Governance, Human Rights and Development: Challenges for Southeast Asia and Beyond, details of which are at http://www.icird.org. Note that 30 October is the deadline for abstracts.
The dominance of the middle-income peasants
Thanks Stuart, sorry for missing the irony! AW
The dominance of the middle-income peasants
Andrew Walker (10)
hehe. Obviously my comment had ironic intent, which may not have come through. The bemoaned circumstance of the ‘typical lowly farang English teacher’ is one of those often-told anecdotes that illustrates how bizarre and ‘other-worldly’ Thailand can appear from a foreign perspective. A typical 30,000 per month salary for an English teacher appears modest, and the source of ridicule and scorn for many. But some farang teachers struggle to come to terms with their supposed lowly status while, at the same time, dealing with the obvious disconnect between their own earnings and those of their Thai colleagues (the average salary for a Thai graduate would be about a third of that). This is all a bit off topic, I know, but your description of ‘rich peasant’ would be laced with a certain humorous irony for many farang teachers!
Red art: Democracy Monument April 12 2010
MattB – 32
Its not like I agree with your stance on the whole thing but I have to criticize the Red leaders like Veera and Jatuporn for making wrong tactical and strategic decision. Veera in particular is the most dirty of the bunch and I have no respect for the man. Anyhow, I just want to point out that dont take the Red as a mindless lump of meat that move on the leaders command, each group has its own way of fighting and each group also has their own ideology and principle. The huge turn out last 19 Sep pretty much prove that point.
Red art: Democracy Monument April 12 2010
Let’s face up to some local realities, intellectual beings from Planet Zarg. Hocus pocus is far more ‘sanuk’ and far more profitable than poker-faced western democracy.
Just how do you think this sow’s ear is going to become a silk purse, exactly!?
On the Brink: Human Rights in Thailand
Paradigm shift @ PM’s Office? Bangkok Pundit has a post on the title of the PM’s news agency’s (NNT) article, “PM: Caution needed before any news briefing on Red Freedom Fighters”!
http://asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/
http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255310140009
Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear that the PM has undergone a volte face… Just a bit of over-eager ESL subbing at NNT.
General Prayut on his new job
Alex #21 :
Looks like General Prayuth is already staging his coup – with troops ordered into all 50 districts of Bangkok, and surrounding provinces, @ 5pm, Thursday, 14/10/2010 :
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/201387/troops-deployed-in-bangkok
How much of a burden is rural debt in Thailand?
I believe the problem exists, but rural debt is certainly not limited to Thailand.
It is instead par for the course for farmers everywhere. Farming is cyclical, equipment must be purchased, stock or seed must be bought and should should all go right there is a good chance a crop yield will complete the cycle and clear the debt.
Should any factors like markets or weather interfere with the crop or decrease it in value, the downward spiral begins.
In many countries the independent farmer is all but extinct — only the multinationals or large farming co-ops are able to weather the ups and downs successfully.