Any idea why Suthep and Abhisit need to suck up to Somkid so much? Just money, or did Somkid do a particularly good job in squashing the Red Shirts up in Chiang Mai, or does he have “high connections?”
Congratulations to Andrew Marshall, and New Mandala – both for their courage and honesty on this matter.
You are great inspiration that the corrupt and evil will not remain unexposed.
Ditto to the three posters above.
I suggest anyone interested in this ticking time-bomb beneath the Thai throne, read what Paul Handley says re. the stolen Blue Diamond.
My impression with 1992 struggle is that it was a truly crash between elites, Army on one side and the establishment on the other. The 1992 is simply the repeat of 1973 which we saw the 2nd Division doing their best job, killing Thai citizens to the benefit of the establishment and to get rid of their political threat my pretending to receive the order from the whoever the establishment want to get rid of, 1992 it was Sujinda and 1973 was Tanorm. I think the reason why the Nation dare to go against the junta was because they are part of the establishment, and they are still now. The Nation hasn’t change much in the political stance.
I think Les Abbey’s question on changing one’s mind is bizarre. It isn’t as if a newspaper is immutable, and allegiance to it should be unconditional. It’s a fair bet that most people’s view are similar to his: “more gray than black and white.”
To the extent that The Nation may have been admirable before 2006, it was because it would occasionally expose government wrongdoing — and Thaksin happened to be the government. To the extent it continues to expose government wrongdoing, it could command continued admiration. But the problem is, they generally kiss up to the present government.
They’ve all but abandoned the core values of journalism for a more Murdoch-like approach. And I don’t mean like The Wall Street Journal, either, which I cannot recall ever running huge headlines like ‘THE FINAL COUNTDOWN’ every few months.
To bring it (almost) home, I’ll substitute ‘Myanmar’ for ‘Thailand’ in Jonny’s comment and, voila, we have what amounts to the standard junta apologist’s excuse for putting away some poor blogger.
“I guess it seems to me that you can opine between yourselves whether or not you personally believe that particular law is ‘valid’ or not – but the fact is it’s as valid in Myanmar as US laws prohibiting the posting of public threats against the President or German laws prohibiting Holocaust debate and so on and so forth.
“I think you all – and I as well, in my post above – have been perhaps a bit guilty of some blatant hypocrisy in our outrage at what really amounts to nothing more than mere due process….”
I for one would be curious as to whether Jonny also finds outrage over the arrests of NLD and Burmese netizen lawbreakers a matter of ‘blatant hypocrisy.’
Very similar non-arguments were used when the government’s efforts to drive out protesters who had occupied parts of Bangkok in April and May led to bloodshed on the streets of the capital and attracted international concern. The government said foreign critics had profoundly misunderstood a complex situation, but would come around when things were explained. It’s a strategy that is by no means confined to the current administration – Abhisit’s nemesis, former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, used to deal with controversy in exactly the same way.
The only difference between Thaksin’s Regime and this one is that Thaksin was elected and this one was installed by the coupsters. All that eyewash about “corruption” was and is just that. Corruption is alive, well, and in fact vibrant and thriving.
The only thing The Regime have unequivocally managed to do is to totally gut and destroy democracy, such as it was, in Thailand; purposefully and determinedly rolling the Sisyphean rock up the hill, purposefully and determinedly leaving the Thai people out in the tropical sun, their livers the food of vultures.
Adding insult to injury they speak incessantly of morality, these thugs, these scum, these assassins, these thieves.
And when the Saudi Chargé d’affaires wants to know how a Police Lt-Gen can be charged with the crime of participating in a murder in November and, while the case is still proceeding, be promoted to Assistant Police Commissioner-General the next September, the government’s response is to ‘explain’ the situation…
It’s an explanation. And if the government gives you an explanation, the logical expectation is that you accept it.
No one believes in the integrity of the Thai government much less in its infallible divinity on which the acceptability of its “explanations” is apparently predicated.
it seems the most effective way to cover up all sorts of crimes in Thailand is to involve people that are protected by the LM laws
sometimes even insinuating involvement can be sufficient, for example military, PAD and government claims to be “protecting” the monarchy has been a very effective cover story for repression, murder and a myriad of wealth creation schemes
extreme wealth and power without accountability is fertile soil for arrogance and ruthless use of “ordinary” people for personal gratification
sad really
absolute monarchs have become constitutional monarchs answerable to governments elected by the people because the “ordinary” people have recognised that unfettered power becomes evil
It also may be interesting, although less so, to observe that Chalor is not wearing leg irons in the photo. I had thought that those brought to court for serious crimes, which certainly must apply to him, had to wear them and was not aware that this was discretionary.
A few of these links appear to confirm this, but I may be out on a limb on this one.
The link leads to readers’ comments on Chotisak’s interview. There are altogether 285 comments.
Five of these are specified by police (in the warrant for Jiranut’s arrest) as violating LM law.
I know which of them are, but if I or anyone else were to translate or transcribe them, we would be in danger of being charged with LM too. This is how this particular law works.
I have to agree with Nganadeeleg on this one. I was impressed by The Nation’s courageous stand against junta censorship in 1992 and I am appalled that they have now become a junta lap dog. But I don’t see how that could be regarded as flip flopping.
“When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”
-John Maynard Keynes
“As far as the law is concerned, a German forum owner who allowed Holocaust ‘revisionist’ theory to remain uncensored would likely be treated far harsher than the Prachatai moderators who allowed lese majeste content to stand uncensored indefinitely.”
You don’t seem to know much about the German situation… As for Thailand, unlike Germany, even correct information and legitimate opinions are subject to lese majesty.
It would indeed seem to be far beyond the usual corruption, thieving and lies. To endure such widespread international humiliation for so long it would appear that someone very powerful indeed is being protected. And of course their aggrandizement with a trinket that can never even be worn in public takes precedence over the country’s interests.
What a pointless question posed by Les Abbey – it’s much more important to be prepared to change based on new knowledge, than to rigidly stick to beliefs which could be wrong.
This is good and useful article. However, would make two points, or perhaps critiques:
1) I find it odd that Andrew chooses to excoriate the police in isolation. It seems pretty clear to be that stumbling block is outside of the police department and that the patronage structure that makes this all work is a uniform and organized system that exists across the Thai bureaucracy.
2) He also neglected what I found to be the most interesting part of Mr. Ashri’s linked statement.
“I maintained our courteous approach to the sensitive situation which is why I have resolved to work at bilateral diplomatic levels with the Thai government instead of publicly addressing every single comment made by officials regarding the issue”.
What is so sensitive about this case? And isn’t that usually a code word for something else?
Media is the most powerful tool of communication. It gives a real exposure to the mass audience about what is right or wrong.
Today we are bounded in the barriers of loads of problems and issues. Media like Prachatai has a constructive role to play in bringing to our attention important cases and issues and in providing justice to people. Prachatai has been helping promoting right things on right time.
The Thai corrupted politicians and bureaucrats have been putting the Thai patriotic leaders in jail and in exile. We must not allow the continuity of this abuse by letting them hiding behind lese majesty and computer law. Thailand does not belong to only the Thai network monarchy. Now, the time has arrived, when we need to re-think and sought out about the role of the Thai State in its suppression of human rights of the Thai citizens for the benefits of the Thai network monarchy.
Leah Hoyt @53: I always get a kick when contributors start off with passionate debate only to descend into their deepest, darkest prejudices, and this often means lashing out at Americans.
“You are an American, who has lived in Thailand less than three years and doesn’t speak much Thai.”
As I’ve said before: the US has no monopoly on idiots!
Jonny:
Thaksin is so hated because he became a threat to the status quo. The Democrats got crushed by Thai Ruk Thai. He was the first Thai Prime Minister to serve a full term getting elected with more seats in parliament than any other party previously and then was reelected with the highest voter turnout in Thai history.The monarchists and the elite threw out Thaksin using the judiciary, the military, and lese majeste because they couldn’t beat him.
Was he corrupt? Of course. The difference he made was that the poor now had their corrupt leader to standup to the corrupt military, the corrupt elite, and the corrupt monarchists.
What he also had, unlike the Democrats, were ideas, and lots of them that were good.
Under Thaksin GDP grew 31% and income in Isan rose 46% through programs like his microcredit program, low-interest agricultural loans, village development funds, and his OTOP program. Under Thaksin poverty was cut in half.
How ironic that Muhammad Yunus won a Nobel for using small loans (with a 98% repayment rate) to help poor families, a model also used in 100 other countries. Thaksin used this idea and it’s a populist policy pandering to the unprincipled wants and needs of the masses.”
Thaksin’s biggest mistake was his success among the poor. While the King, the wealthiest monarch in the world, preached sufficiency and moderation atop $30 billion, Thaksin set in motion programs for the poor to help themselves. OTOP and microcredit to help farmers and small business people was sound policy and did more to liberate the poor than a thousand photographs of the King’s holy beneficence to submissive subjects unable to do for themselves.
This of course doesn’t take away from the many positive Royal gestures for the poor during Bumiphol’s reign for the past 60 years. As monarchs go he’s has been a hell of a lot better than most.
BTW: Thaksin didn’t become rich over night. Shin Corp was founded in 1983, AIS in 1990, Thaicom in 1991. Between 2001 and 2006 the SET rose 161% while Shin rose 168%. Thaksin became a lot wealthier along with many other people/companies including the Crown Property Bureau.
Massive changes are underway in Thailand that go far beyond Thaksin and this is why 50,000 websites are blocked, why there is a 300 agent task force set up by the DSI to investigate threats to the monarchy, why there was a coup, why political parties and politicians have been banned, why newspapers and radios have been shut down.
But it’s much easier to crucify Thaksin because he is so corrupt, and so anti monarchy. It’s so much easier to simply write off votes and elections because these voters are all bought off (is there a constituency on the planet that isn’t bought off either directly or indirectly?) and illiterate. It’s too frightening to face the idea that those unwashed out there on the street are going to get a place at the table.
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Andrew Marshall on “the curse of the blue diamond”
Any idea why Suthep and Abhisit need to suck up to Somkid so much? Just money, or did Somkid do a particularly good job in squashing the Red Shirts up in Chiang Mai, or does he have “high connections?”
Andrew Marshall on “the curse of the blue diamond”
Congratulations to Andrew Marshall, and New Mandala – both for their courage and honesty on this matter.
You are great inspiration that the corrupt and evil will not remain unexposed.
Ditto to the three posters above.
I suggest anyone interested in this ticking time-bomb beneath the Thai throne, read what Paul Handley says re. the stolen Blue Diamond.
Sanitising Thai political history
Leah Hoyt – 18
My impression with 1992 struggle is that it was a truly crash between elites, Army on one side and the establishment on the other. The 1992 is simply the repeat of 1973 which we saw the 2nd Division doing their best job, killing Thai citizens to the benefit of the establishment and to get rid of their political threat my pretending to receive the order from the whoever the establishment want to get rid of, 1992 it was Sujinda and 1973 was Tanorm. I think the reason why the Nation dare to go against the junta was because they are part of the establishment, and they are still now. The Nation hasn’t change much in the political stance.
Sanitising Thai political history
I think Les Abbey’s question on changing one’s mind is bizarre. It isn’t as if a newspaper is immutable, and allegiance to it should be unconditional. It’s a fair bet that most people’s view are similar to his: “more gray than black and white.”
To the extent that The Nation may have been admirable before 2006, it was because it would occasionally expose government wrongdoing — and Thaksin happened to be the government. To the extent it continues to expose government wrongdoing, it could command continued admiration. But the problem is, they generally kiss up to the present government.
They’ve all but abandoned the core values of journalism for a more Murdoch-like approach. And I don’t mean like The Wall Street Journal, either, which I cannot recall ever running huge headlines like ‘THE FINAL COUNTDOWN’ every few months.
Prachatai manager arrested
To bring it (almost) home, I’ll substitute ‘Myanmar’ for ‘Thailand’ in Jonny’s comment and, voila, we have what amounts to the standard junta apologist’s excuse for putting away some poor blogger.
“I guess it seems to me that you can opine between yourselves whether or not you personally believe that particular law is ‘valid’ or not – but the fact is it’s as valid in Myanmar as US laws prohibiting the posting of public threats against the President or German laws prohibiting Holocaust debate and so on and so forth.
“I think you all – and I as well, in my post above – have been perhaps a bit guilty of some blatant hypocrisy in our outrage at what really amounts to nothing more than mere due process….”
I for one would be curious as to whether Jonny also finds outrage over the arrests of NLD and Burmese netizen lawbreakers a matter of ‘blatant hypocrisy.’
Andrew Marshall on “the curse of the blue diamond”
The only difference between Thaksin’s Regime and this one is that Thaksin was elected and this one was installed by the coupsters. All that eyewash about “corruption” was and is just that. Corruption is alive, well, and in fact vibrant and thriving.
The only thing The Regime have unequivocally managed to do is to totally gut and destroy democracy, such as it was, in Thailand; purposefully and determinedly rolling the Sisyphean rock up the hill, purposefully and determinedly leaving the Thai people out in the tropical sun, their livers the food of vultures.
Adding insult to injury they speak incessantly of morality, these thugs, these scum, these assassins, these thieves.
See Cause and Defect:
No one believes in the integrity of the Thai government much less in its infallible divinity on which the acceptability of its “explanations” is apparently predicated.
Prachatai manager arrested
All those criticising – on good grounds – Shawn Crispin last week, should congratulate him for standing up now against the Prachatai manager’s arrest :
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/198222/political-website-director-released-on-bail
Andrew Marshall on “the curse of the blue diamond”
thanks to the Andres, Leah and Wern….
it seems the most effective way to cover up all sorts of crimes in Thailand is to involve people that are protected by the LM laws
sometimes even insinuating involvement can be sufficient, for example military, PAD and government claims to be “protecting” the monarchy has been a very effective cover story for repression, murder and a myriad of wealth creation schemes
extreme wealth and power without accountability is fertile soil for arrogance and ruthless use of “ordinary” people for personal gratification
sad really
absolute monarchs have become constitutional monarchs answerable to governments elected by the people because the “ordinary” people have recognised that unfettered power becomes evil
Andrew Marshall on “the curse of the blue diamond”
Indeed.
It also may be interesting, although less so, to observe that Chalor is not wearing leg irons in the photo. I had thought that those brought to court for serious crimes, which certainly must apply to him, had to wear them and was not aware that this was discretionary.
A few of these links appear to confirm this, but I may be out on a limb on this one.
http://www.bing-vs-google.com/?q=thailand+leg+irons
Prachatai manager arrested
chris beale #20
The link leads to readers’ comments on Chotisak’s interview. There are altogether 285 comments.
Five of these are specified by police (in the warrant for Jiranut’s arrest) as violating LM law.
I know which of them are, but if I or anyone else were to translate or transcribe them, we would be in danger of being charged with LM too. This is how this particular law works.
Sanitising Thai political history
I have to agree with Nganadeeleg on this one. I was impressed by The Nation’s courageous stand against junta censorship in 1992 and I am appalled that they have now become a junta lap dog. But I don’t see how that could be regarded as flip flopping.
“When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”
-John Maynard Keynes
Prachatai manager arrested
jonny # 14
“As far as the law is concerned, a German forum owner who allowed Holocaust ‘revisionist’ theory to remain uncensored would likely be treated far harsher than the Prachatai moderators who allowed lese majeste content to stand uncensored indefinitely.”
You don’t seem to know much about the German situation… As for Thailand, unlike Germany, even correct information and legitimate opinions are subject to lese majesty.
Andrew Marshall on “the curse of the blue diamond”
It would indeed seem to be far beyond the usual corruption, thieving and lies. To endure such widespread international humiliation for so long it would appear that someone very powerful indeed is being protected. And of course their aggrandizement with a trinket that can never even be worn in public takes precedence over the country’s interests.
Andrew Marshall on “the curse of the blue diamond”
Leah,
I believe its sensitive because any information regarding the case might be deem as breaking the LM law
Sanitising Thai political history
What a pointless question posed by Les Abbey – it’s much more important to be prepared to change based on new knowledge, than to rigidly stick to beliefs which could be wrong.
No prizes for remaining ignorant 🙂
Prachatai manager arrested
In the words of Jim Morrison : ” This is the end “
Andrew Marshall on “the curse of the blue diamond”
This is good and useful article. However, would make two points, or perhaps critiques:
1) I find it odd that Andrew chooses to excoriate the police in isolation. It seems pretty clear to be that stumbling block is outside of the police department and that the patronage structure that makes this all work is a uniform and organized system that exists across the Thai bureaucracy.
2) He also neglected what I found to be the most interesting part of Mr. Ashri’s linked statement.
“I maintained our courteous approach to the sensitive situation which is why I have resolved to work at bilateral diplomatic levels with the Thai government instead of publicly addressing every single comment made by officials regarding the issue”.
What is so sensitive about this case? And isn’t that usually a code word for something else?
Prachatai manager arrested
Media is the most powerful tool of communication. It gives a real exposure to the mass audience about what is right or wrong.
Today we are bounded in the barriers of loads of problems and issues. Media like Prachatai has a constructive role to play in bringing to our attention important cases and issues and in providing justice to people. Prachatai has been helping promoting right things on right time.
The Thai corrupted politicians and bureaucrats have been putting the Thai patriotic leaders in jail and in exile. We must not allow the continuity of this abuse by letting them hiding behind lese majesty and computer law. Thailand does not belong to only the Thai network monarchy. Now, the time has arrived, when we need to re-think and sought out about the role of the Thai State in its suppression of human rights of the Thai citizens for the benefits of the Thai network monarchy.
Sanitising Thai political history
Jim Taylor – 15
I think we should all be prepared to change out positions as truth becomes apparent…
So Jim did you flip-flop in 2006? Simple question.
Thai elections in 2010, or 2011, or 2012, or 2013, or 2014, or 2015, or 2016, or 2017, or 2018, or ….
Leah Hoyt @53: I always get a kick when contributors start off with passionate debate only to descend into their deepest, darkest prejudices, and this often means lashing out at Americans.
“You are an American, who has lived in Thailand less than three years and doesn’t speak much Thai.”
As I’ve said before: the US has no monopoly on idiots!
Jonny:
Thaksin is so hated because he became a threat to the status quo. The Democrats got crushed by Thai Ruk Thai. He was the first Thai Prime Minister to serve a full term getting elected with more seats in parliament than any other party previously and then was reelected with the highest voter turnout in Thai history.The monarchists and the elite threw out Thaksin using the judiciary, the military, and lese majeste because they couldn’t beat him.
Was he corrupt? Of course. The difference he made was that the poor now had their corrupt leader to standup to the corrupt military, the corrupt elite, and the corrupt monarchists.
What he also had, unlike the Democrats, were ideas, and lots of them that were good.
Under Thaksin GDP grew 31% and income in Isan rose 46% through programs like his microcredit program, low-interest agricultural loans, village development funds, and his OTOP program. Under Thaksin poverty was cut in half.
How ironic that Muhammad Yunus won a Nobel for using small loans (with a 98% repayment rate) to help poor families, a model also used in 100 other countries. Thaksin used this idea and it’s a populist policy pandering to the unprincipled wants and needs of the masses.”
Thaksin’s biggest mistake was his success among the poor. While the King, the wealthiest monarch in the world, preached sufficiency and moderation atop $30 billion, Thaksin set in motion programs for the poor to help themselves. OTOP and microcredit to help farmers and small business people was sound policy and did more to liberate the poor than a thousand photographs of the King’s holy beneficence to submissive subjects unable to do for themselves.
This of course doesn’t take away from the many positive Royal gestures for the poor during Bumiphol’s reign for the past 60 years. As monarchs go he’s has been a hell of a lot better than most.
BTW: Thaksin didn’t become rich over night. Shin Corp was founded in 1983, AIS in 1990, Thaicom in 1991. Between 2001 and 2006 the SET rose 161% while Shin rose 168%. Thaksin became a lot wealthier along with many other people/companies including the Crown Property Bureau.
Massive changes are underway in Thailand that go far beyond Thaksin and this is why 50,000 websites are blocked, why there is a 300 agent task force set up by the DSI to investigate threats to the monarchy, why there was a coup, why political parties and politicians have been banned, why newspapers and radios have been shut down.
But it’s much easier to crucify Thaksin because he is so corrupt, and so anti monarchy. It’s so much easier to simply write off votes and elections because these voters are all bought off (is there a constituency on the planet that isn’t bought off either directly or indirectly?) and illiterate. It’s too frightening to face the idea that those unwashed out there on the street are going to get a place at the table.