I had a chat about the Prachatai example with a friend of mine in the US who runs a small political discussion forum – I have to admit I’m a bit conflicted on the issue after speaking with him about how he approaches ‘illegal’ or ‘inflammatory’ content posted by users on his forum.
I was under the – perhaps naive – impression that “Unmoderated” labels on political forums around the world actually = no moderation. My friend scoffed at this; explaining that heavy moderation of illegal* posting has to be conducted by any webmaster or else a discussion board would basically be an exploitable avenue to broadcast (insert illegal message here).
*nb. Illegal = used in the literal sense, i.e. against the law (as legislated, proclaimed and / or enforced by the ruling powers of the day)
I’m still trying to reconcile this confronting counter-argument…but if we ignore ‘validity’ of the law (that is another debate altogether), I believe it may have just dawned upon me that there is nothing about the Thai authorities’ actions here that would not be replicated in almost any first world nation?!
I’m going to pick an arbitrary ‘comparative’ (I just know I’m gonna regret using that word) example – please accept that I am in no way comparing Holocaust revisionist theory with lese majeste aside from the tenuous connection in that they are both controversial and illegal in some countries. And both have their ardent critics who would pose the question of legitimacy (irrelevant as far as moderation of public debate is concerned). I was grossly clueless until about an hour ago.
In Germany and Australia and I’m sure a number of other countries where legislation has been enacted to prohibit Holocaust deniers from discussing their (odious) beliefs in the public domain – a German or Australian forum owner who allowed such content to remain unmoderated would be guilty of a crime. No ‘ifs’ or ‘buts’ about it.
As far as the law is concerned, a German forum owner who allowed Holocaust ‘revisionist’ theory to remain uncensored would likely be treated far harsher than the Prachatai moderators who allowed lese majeste content to stand uncensored indefinitely.
Now, yall can debate the validity or otherwise of various laws regarding free speech at your leisure. I will likely abstain as my views on the matter haven’t changed – but, rightly or wrongly (and I concede that 99% of this forum’s readers would surely tick the rightly box), Jiranut Premjaiporn was breaking the law and I’m not sure I realised that until an hour ago because I’m a moran.
You all will no doubt consider her a patriot for her refusal to subscribe to what she considers to be an ‘unjust’ law. I will abstain from that debate. But I can’t help but notice the apparent contractions – there are laws against free speech in every first world nation which are just as debatable as the law Khun Jiranut knowingly chose to ignore. I guess it seems to me that you can opine between yourselves whether or not you personally believe that particular law is ‘valid’ or not – but the fact is it’s as valid in Thailand as US laws prohibiting the posting of public threats against the President or German laws prohibiting Holocaust debate and so on and so forth.
I think you all – and I as well, in my post above – have been perhaps a bit guilty of some blatant hypocrisy in our outrage at what really amounts to nothing more than mere due process.
Don’t you agree? Or am I missing something about the nature of her activism which somehow makes her arrest by the local authorities…’outrageous’ or ‘villainous’ (in ways the Secret Service would not be similarly ‘enraging’ or ‘abhorrent’…in a comparable US scenario)?
For ages now every poltical conversation I have had with Thai people has pretty much been about will there or wont there be an election. I guess it has now permeated to the English language media.
I find the reds are this, no they are this stuff quite an amusing aside. Has anyone considered that the red movement/UDD is actually a complicated mix of many parts some which may be republican, some socialist, some pure Thaksinista, some outsider elitist, opportunist, feudalistic, and many others I cant even think of etc etc. History shows us many movements consist of strange bedfellows with differing ideologies. In those circumstances there are going to be different analysis as the groups are not homogenous and maybe just maybe that is how you see so much difference here.
There is also the way people want to portray a movement which may be positive or negative but not shall we say entirely accurate but via cherry picking
Many people from different sides of the political equation want the red shirts to be one thing or another but truth is they are a mix of many and only in hindsight will they be analysed.
My main concern is if international community leaves them alone unchecked and isolated eventually they will get hold of a few ICBMs and some nuclear warheads.
(Mad Burmese Generals have billions of easy dollars just by selling natural gas alone to China and Thailand, and cash-starved Kim-jun-ill has several ICBMs with nuclear warheads.)
Burmese are crazier than North Koreans and Burmese army’s motto is “Shoot First, Explain Later!”
Interesting that they arrested her after, rather than before the ‘Internet Liberty 2010’ conference. The fact that she was returning from an international conference on these issues when she was arrested makes it more newsworthy, especially on the web. Is somebody in the police network onside? I should imagine, given the evidence of police sympathies during the recent protest events, that this could well be the case. I sincerely hope so!
I assumed most, or all of you, would have some awareness of Thaksin abuses of power which led to the military’s reluctant intervention to pre-empt a “democratic dictatorship”.
I would assume that we all here know what Thaksin did, but fortunately for me that my memory serve me well as I can track back that the abuse of power were very common among power holder even before Thaksin time, may I say since the beginning of Thailand modern history?
So let me answer your “answer” one by one since I think you got some very “misleading” info there.
Thaksin extradited to serve his prison term for corruption with multiple investigations commissioned to establish just how, exactly, a bankrupt police officer enters politics and becomes the richest man in Thailand as a result of his ‘public service’ and what steps must be taken to ensure politicians in Thailand are…accountable
If you even read a bit about Thaksin and really get to know him, Thaksin was worth $1.6 billion in 1995-6 by all mean, he is far from being bankrupt when he took the office, from my understand, you are 17 right jonny? maybe you were not aware of what was going on 10 years ago so I dont really blame you.
Thaksin to face independent international inquiry into the 3000 extrajudicial killings carried out in his doomed “drug war”; not the UN
Oh I would love to see that since most of the high profile drug dealing network was being done by people in the barrack anyway so I love to see who will actually get into trouble when some international inquiry took place.
Thaksin to face investigation into his funding of terrorist elements tasked with the cultivation of fear and chaos throughout the entire “crisis”
If the attack on the empty gas tank even sound more absurd that fire away the investigation.
Hla Oo
Read Christie’s first paragraph again where he says explicitly that the Karens wanted self determination. I was unable to find any suggestion that leaving the Commonwealth was the main trigger for the Karen struggle. In fact, Christie’s chapter does not make anything close to a similar argument to what you say is Smith’s claim, at least as I read it. Once again, please show in some detail how you read Christie to say what you claim he says. I’d also like to see the exact quote from Smith.
I concede that I am forced to defer to your expertise on Reds and Red Opinion/s – I only know two out-and-out Red Shirts myself (both adore Thaksin, I’m forced to grind my teeth at their ‘reasoning’)….but I imagine you would know most, if not all, of the 8000?
I’ll pop my head up out of the Bangkok Burrow sometime and see what’s happening in the big wide Red World…
I provided ‘live’ report of Khun Jiranut’s journey to the KhonKaen Police HQ last night. http://weareallhuman2.info/index.php?showtopic=49507&s=ee1312f0974745fe6331b680d972682b
When I finally went to bed last at shortly after 2 am. Khun Jiranut was already freed on bail, but the paper work of her initial testimony to police wasn’t done yet. She and her colleagues had to drive back all the way to BKK. The ordeal was surly very tiring for them.
The charge stems from an extended interview with Chotisak Onsoong published at Prachatai on 21 April 2008. Chotisak was of course himself charged with LM for not standing up during the play of Royal Anthem. Here’s the interview: http://prachatai.com/journal/2008/04/16466
(anyone wanting to keep this page for future study is advised to save, I think it could be deleted soon)
Now the person (or persons, I’m not sure) who filed the LM charge allege that among the 285 comments, 5 of them violate LM law.
I won’t give NM readers which specific comments, but have a look yourself. The first 4 comments in question are among the first 70 comments, the last one is among the first 135 comments.
All these details became clear to Khun Jiranut herself and her colleagues only when they arrived at the KhonKaen Police HQ.
The police claimed that they didn’t intended to arrest her yesterday under such circumstances, but when she arrived at the Suwannaphum Airport, her name came up in the Immigration Police’s computer at the airport. The outstanding warrant for her arrest was issue in September last year. (Why she wasn’t arrested when she boarded the plane to Europe isn’t clear. Some said her name did came up then too, but the police let her go for the time being.)
Based solely on what Hla Oo has written thus far, I think it’s safe to assume that the Burmese are unable to govern themselves. One treacherous act after another, one murder after another, at war with itself. Shakespeare would be hard put to write a better story.
If Burma wanted peace all they would have to do is form a federation, with protections for the minorities. But that would be too easy. Better to wage unending war against the population, loot the resources, enrich the ruling elites at the expense of the common man, and enter into unholy alliances with pariah states like North Korea.
“This is NOT a class struggle. This is NOT a republican movement. Not for the vast majority of Red Shirts. They simply love the King.”
“They adore the King, but they’re conflicted about the ‘elites’ contradiction and they reconcile this contradiction by simply refusing to associate the amataya with the monarchy.”
Hmmm.
How long have you been down that rabbit-hole Jonny? Seriously, because you seem to inhabit a different world from the one I live in. And the one most reds that I talk to inhabit as well…
Jim, prior to 2006 what were your feelings about both the Nation and Thaksin? Did your views flip flop at that pivot point like so many others I wonder? I would be interested to know.
Would you judge the character of the Burmese nation based on George Orwell’s Burmese Days?
Pyo Toke in Ngaba was a miscreant, more like people who make up the Swan Arr Shin today. There will always be U Po Kyins and Pyo Tokes anywhere in the world. If you are bent on tarring the whole lot with the same brush, that’s your own choice and policy.
Bashing the entire political class is a popular international past time, not unjustified a lot of the time. The corruption inherent in power and office is evident everywhere from the dawn of history. Bringing in the Japanese was expedient at the time and a quirk of fate as the original quest was for Chinese Communist assistance.
Admittedly the Tatmadaw and the SPDC are historical products, but the untimely demise of Aung San and the subsequent seizure of state power by the Socialists both outside and inside the army determined the trajectory that Burma has travelled upon ever since. The point is to put an end to this militarist chauvinist monopoly capitalist state whatever it has chosen to call itself down the decades.
You appear to have a chronic case of the Wow Syndrome. Expecting your generals to help evolve Burmese society to such as those you now emulate in exile is wishful thinking at best and delusional at worst. Well, we shouldn’t have kicked the Brits out. Perhaps we should have kept the Japanese too.
Is it like the English joke about France? “It’s a nice country, the only problem is it’s full of French people”. Hope that’s not how you feel about us from your lofty ivory tower.
I have never seen the point in anonymity? My name is Jonny and I never assume duplicate aliases. I most certainly was not the person you argued with on some other forum – I’ve hardly really expressed on views on Thaksin until I realised that, outside of Thailand, he was fooling the well-intentioned of the world into believing his costly – fictional – script.
I didn’t realise I’d walked into Thaksin-Country, to be honest – I assumed most, or all of you, would have some awareness of Thaksin abuses of power which led to the military’s reluctant (don’t kid yourselves, military juntas who are not reluctant don’t handball it off like a hot potato) intervention to pre-empt a “democratic dictatorship”.
Perhaps I assumed too much. May I ask what you would like to see in Thailand’s immediate future?
For what it’s worth, my answer to the above question would be:
– Thaksin extradited to serve his prison term for corruption with multiple investigations commissioned to establish just how, exactly, a bankrupt police officer enters politics and becomes the richest man in Thailand as a result of his ‘public service’ and what steps must be taken to ensure politicians in Thailand are…accountable.
– Thaksin to face independent international inquiry into the 3000 extrajudicial killings carried out in his doomed “drug war”; not the UN “not [his] father”…I’m more thinking like The Hague.
– Thaksin to face investigation into his funding of terrorist elements tasked with the cultivation of fear and chaos throughout the entire “crisis” (the endless bombings etc)
– Red Shirt leaders who incited violence and carnage to face terrorism charges.
– Yellow Shirt leaders who hijacked the airports last year must also be held to account.
– The MICT and internet censorship in general should form the subject of a national debate where Thais (and even guests, perhaps) can discuss ‘offence’, cultural values, the value of free speech (even when, especially when, you disagree with what is being said), etc.
– Further steps to heal the rifts in Thai society undertaken; social welfare programs enhanced, sharing the wealth, giving every Thai citizen a voice, progress towards a more egalitarian society, particularly in the judicial setting.
– An entire overhaul of the electoral system to make representatives answerable to their constituents; strict penalties for MPs who believe they are “for sale”
– Free and general elections by end of 2011.
LesAbbey#2 & #7 actually FYI: A staring point to the media onslaught against Thaksin goes back to when former PM Anand Panyarachun, closely aligned to the ruling elites & amaat, enabled the conditions for The Nation Multimedia Group and their Democrat Party mates to secure the ITV concession (at grossly overstated values). ITV was launched in 1996, which of course turned out to be a financial disaster which Thaksin later successfully took over, much to the chagrin of these interests. The so-called “independent” media then started a relentless campaign against Thaksin as they saw their own interests compromised. Thaksin reasonably replaced journalists who continued the slandering and propaganda & who were not prepared to cooperate with the new owners…sounds reasonable to me/
This column by Pravit is no exception — for Pravit at least. He is a consistent breath of fresh air and good sense at The Nation. Since he returned from an academic leave in the U.S., his columns seem to have become more bold in standing up for free expression. I hope he is able to continue.
[…] Sokapok comments on a post uploaded at New Mandala How have things got so wrong that some of us believe that trying to shut people up and ignore them instead of listening to them and incorporating their concerns is the foundation for political stability? Isn’t it stark ravingly obvious that the opposite is the case? Why can’t these people see that? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills […]
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Prachatai manager arrested
I had a chat about the Prachatai example with a friend of mine in the US who runs a small political discussion forum – I have to admit I’m a bit conflicted on the issue after speaking with him about how he approaches ‘illegal’ or ‘inflammatory’ content posted by users on his forum.
I was under the – perhaps naive – impression that “Unmoderated” labels on political forums around the world actually = no moderation. My friend scoffed at this; explaining that heavy moderation of illegal* posting has to be conducted by any webmaster or else a discussion board would basically be an exploitable avenue to broadcast (insert illegal message here).
*nb. Illegal = used in the literal sense, i.e. against the law (as legislated, proclaimed and / or enforced by the ruling powers of the day)
I’m still trying to reconcile this confronting counter-argument…but if we ignore ‘validity’ of the law (that is another debate altogether), I believe it may have just dawned upon me that there is nothing about the Thai authorities’ actions here that would not be replicated in almost any first world nation?!
I’m going to pick an arbitrary ‘comparative’ (I just know I’m gonna regret using that word) example – please accept that I am in no way comparing Holocaust revisionist theory with lese majeste aside from the tenuous connection in that they are both controversial and illegal in some countries. And both have their ardent critics who would pose the question of legitimacy (irrelevant as far as moderation of public debate is concerned). I was grossly clueless until about an hour ago.
In Germany and Australia and I’m sure a number of other countries where legislation has been enacted to prohibit Holocaust deniers from discussing their (odious) beliefs in the public domain – a German or Australian forum owner who allowed such content to remain unmoderated would be guilty of a crime. No ‘ifs’ or ‘buts’ about it.
As far as the law is concerned, a German forum owner who allowed Holocaust ‘revisionist’ theory to remain uncensored would likely be treated far harsher than the Prachatai moderators who allowed lese majeste content to stand uncensored indefinitely.
Now, yall can debate the validity or otherwise of various laws regarding free speech at your leisure. I will likely abstain as my views on the matter haven’t changed – but, rightly or wrongly (and I concede that 99% of this forum’s readers would surely tick the rightly box), Jiranut Premjaiporn was breaking the law and I’m not sure I realised that until an hour ago because I’m a moran.
You all will no doubt consider her a patriot for her refusal to subscribe to what she considers to be an ‘unjust’ law. I will abstain from that debate. But I can’t help but notice the apparent contractions – there are laws against free speech in every first world nation which are just as debatable as the law Khun Jiranut knowingly chose to ignore. I guess it seems to me that you can opine between yourselves whether or not you personally believe that particular law is ‘valid’ or not – but the fact is it’s as valid in Thailand as US laws prohibiting the posting of public threats against the President or German laws prohibiting Holocaust debate and so on and so forth.
I think you all – and I as well, in my post above – have been perhaps a bit guilty of some blatant hypocrisy in our outrage at what really amounts to nothing more than mere due process.
Don’t you agree? Or am I missing something about the nature of her activism which somehow makes her arrest by the local authorities…’outrageous’ or ‘villainous’ (in ways the Secret Service would not be similarly ‘enraging’ or ‘abhorrent’…in a comparable US scenario)?
Thai elections in 2010, or 2011, or 2012, or 2013, or 2014, or 2015, or 2016, or 2017, or 2018, or ….
For ages now every poltical conversation I have had with Thai people has pretty much been about will there or wont there be an election. I guess it has now permeated to the English language media.
I find the reds are this, no they are this stuff quite an amusing aside. Has anyone considered that the red movement/UDD is actually a complicated mix of many parts some which may be republican, some socialist, some pure Thaksinista, some outsider elitist, opportunist, feudalistic, and many others I cant even think of etc etc. History shows us many movements consist of strange bedfellows with differing ideologies. In those circumstances there are going to be different analysis as the groups are not homogenous and maybe just maybe that is how you see so much difference here.
There is also the way people want to portray a movement which may be positive or negative but not shall we say entirely accurate but via cherry picking
Many people from different sides of the political equation want the red shirts to be one thing or another but truth is they are a mix of many and only in hindsight will they be analysed.
Burma in Limbo, Part 3
My main concern is if international community leaves them alone unchecked and isolated eventually they will get hold of a few ICBMs and some nuclear warheads.
(Mad Burmese Generals have billions of easy dollars just by selling natural gas alone to China and Thailand, and cash-starved Kim-jun-ill has several ICBMs with nuclear warheads.)
Burmese are crazier than North Koreans and Burmese army’s motto is “Shoot First, Explain Later!”
Prachatai manager arrested
Interesting that they arrested her after, rather than before the ‘Internet Liberty 2010’ conference. The fact that she was returning from an international conference on these issues when she was arrested makes it more newsworthy, especially on the web. Is somebody in the police network onside? I should imagine, given the evidence of police sympathies during the recent protest events, that this could well be the case. I sincerely hope so!
Google and Thailand’s lese majeste law
Jonny
I assumed most, or all of you, would have some awareness of Thaksin abuses of power which led to the military’s reluctant intervention to pre-empt a “democratic dictatorship”.
I would assume that we all here know what Thaksin did, but fortunately for me that my memory serve me well as I can track back that the abuse of power were very common among power holder even before Thaksin time, may I say since the beginning of Thailand modern history?
So let me answer your “answer” one by one since I think you got some very “misleading” info there.
Thaksin extradited to serve his prison term for corruption with multiple investigations commissioned to establish just how, exactly, a bankrupt police officer enters politics and becomes the richest man in Thailand as a result of his ‘public service’ and what steps must be taken to ensure politicians in Thailand are…accountable
If you even read a bit about Thaksin and really get to know him, Thaksin was worth $1.6 billion in 1995-6 by all mean, he is far from being bankrupt when he took the office, from my understand, you are 17 right jonny? maybe you were not aware of what was going on 10 years ago so I dont really blame you.
Thaksin to face independent international inquiry into the 3000 extrajudicial killings carried out in his doomed “drug war”; not the UN
Oh I would love to see that since most of the high profile drug dealing network was being done by people in the barrack anyway so I love to see who will actually get into trouble when some international inquiry took place.
Thaksin to face investigation into his funding of terrorist elements tasked with the cultivation of fear and chaos throughout the entire “crisis”
If the attack on the empty gas tank even sound more absurd that fire away the investigation.
Burma in Limbo, Part 3
Hla Oo
Read Christie’s first paragraph again where he says explicitly that the Karens wanted self determination. I was unable to find any suggestion that leaving the Commonwealth was the main trigger for the Karen struggle. In fact, Christie’s chapter does not make anything close to a similar argument to what you say is Smith’s claim, at least as I read it. Once again, please show in some detail how you read Christie to say what you claim he says. I’d also like to see the exact quote from Smith.
Thai elections in 2010, or 2011, or 2012, or 2013, or 2014, or 2015, or 2016, or 2017, or 2018, or ….
@ Anonymouse:
I concede that I am forced to defer to your expertise on Reds and Red Opinion/s – I only know two out-and-out Red Shirts myself (both adore Thaksin, I’m forced to grind my teeth at their ‘reasoning’)….but I imagine you would know most, if not all, of the 8000?
I’ll pop my head up out of the Bangkok Burrow sometime and see what’s happening in the big wide Red World…
Prachatai manager arrested
I provided ‘live’ report of Khun Jiranut’s journey to the KhonKaen Police HQ last night.
http://weareallhuman2.info/index.php?showtopic=49507&s=ee1312f0974745fe6331b680d972682b
When I finally went to bed last at shortly after 2 am. Khun Jiranut was already freed on bail, but the paper work of her initial testimony to police wasn’t done yet. She and her colleagues had to drive back all the way to BKK. The ordeal was surly very tiring for them.
Prachatai manager arrested
The charge stems from an extended interview with Chotisak Onsoong published at Prachatai on 21 April 2008. Chotisak was of course himself charged with LM for not standing up during the play of Royal Anthem. Here’s the interview:
http://prachatai.com/journal/2008/04/16466
But the interview itself is not what got Khun Jiranut charged this time. It’s the comments from online readers:
http://prachatai.com/node/16466/talk#comment-90260
(anyone wanting to keep this page for future study is advised to save, I think it could be deleted soon)
Now the person (or persons, I’m not sure) who filed the LM charge allege that among the 285 comments, 5 of them violate LM law.
I won’t give NM readers which specific comments, but have a look yourself. The first 4 comments in question are among the first 70 comments, the last one is among the first 135 comments.
All these details became clear to Khun Jiranut herself and her colleagues only when they arrived at the KhonKaen Police HQ.
The police claimed that they didn’t intended to arrest her yesterday under such circumstances, but when she arrived at the Suwannaphum Airport, her name came up in the Immigration Police’s computer at the airport. The outstanding warrant for her arrest was issue in September last year. (Why she wasn’t arrested when she boarded the plane to Europe isn’t clear. Some said her name did came up then too, but the police let her go for the time being.)
Burma in Limbo, Part 3
Based solely on what Hla Oo has written thus far, I think it’s safe to assume that the Burmese are unable to govern themselves. One treacherous act after another, one murder after another, at war with itself. Shakespeare would be hard put to write a better story.
If Burma wanted peace all they would have to do is form a federation, with protections for the minorities. But that would be too easy. Better to wage unending war against the population, loot the resources, enrich the ruling elites at the expense of the common man, and enter into unholy alliances with pariah states like North Korea.
That pretty much sum it up?
Thai elections in 2010, or 2011, or 2012, or 2013, or 2014, or 2015, or 2016, or 2017, or 2018, or ….
@Jonny: #42 and #47
“This is NOT a class struggle. This is NOT a republican movement. Not for the vast majority of Red Shirts. They simply love the King.”
“They adore the King, but they’re conflicted about the ‘elites’ contradiction and they reconcile this contradiction by simply refusing to associate the amataya with the monarchy.”
Hmmm.
How long have you been down that rabbit-hole Jonny? Seriously, because you seem to inhabit a different world from the one I live in. And the one most reds that I talk to inhabit as well…
Sanitising Thai political history
Jim Taylor – 11
Jim, prior to 2006 what were your feelings about both the Nation and Thaksin? Did your views flip flop at that pivot point like so many others I wonder? I would be interested to know.
Prachatai manager arrested
RWB are reporting on their website that “Prachatai editor Chiranuch Premchaipoen has been released after paying a 200 000 bahts (about 4800 euros).”
Burma in Limbo, Part 3
Hla Oo #8,
Would you judge the character of the Burmese nation based on George Orwell’s Burmese Days?
Pyo Toke in Ngaba was a miscreant, more like people who make up the Swan Arr Shin today. There will always be U Po Kyins and Pyo Tokes anywhere in the world. If you are bent on tarring the whole lot with the same brush, that’s your own choice and policy.
Bashing the entire political class is a popular international past time, not unjustified a lot of the time. The corruption inherent in power and office is evident everywhere from the dawn of history. Bringing in the Japanese was expedient at the time and a quirk of fate as the original quest was for Chinese Communist assistance.
Admittedly the Tatmadaw and the SPDC are historical products, but the untimely demise of Aung San and the subsequent seizure of state power by the Socialists both outside and inside the army determined the trajectory that Burma has travelled upon ever since. The point is to put an end to this militarist chauvinist monopoly capitalist state whatever it has chosen to call itself down the decades.
You appear to have a chronic case of the Wow Syndrome. Expecting your generals to help evolve Burmese society to such as those you now emulate in exile is wishful thinking at best and delusional at worst. Well, we shouldn’t have kicked the Brits out. Perhaps we should have kept the Japanese too.
Is it like the English joke about France? “It’s a nice country, the only problem is it’s full of French people”. Hope that’s not how you feel about us from your lofty ivory tower.
Google and Thailand’s lese majeste law
I have never seen the point in anonymity? My name is Jonny and I never assume duplicate aliases. I most certainly was not the person you argued with on some other forum – I’ve hardly really expressed on views on Thaksin until I realised that, outside of Thailand, he was fooling the well-intentioned of the world into believing his costly – fictional – script.
I didn’t realise I’d walked into Thaksin-Country, to be honest – I assumed most, or all of you, would have some awareness of Thaksin abuses of power which led to the military’s reluctant (don’t kid yourselves, military juntas who are not reluctant don’t handball it off like a hot potato) intervention to pre-empt a “democratic dictatorship”.
Perhaps I assumed too much. May I ask what you would like to see in Thailand’s immediate future?
For what it’s worth, my answer to the above question would be:
– Thaksin extradited to serve his prison term for corruption with multiple investigations commissioned to establish just how, exactly, a bankrupt police officer enters politics and becomes the richest man in Thailand as a result of his ‘public service’ and what steps must be taken to ensure politicians in Thailand are…accountable.
– Thaksin to face independent international inquiry into the 3000 extrajudicial killings carried out in his doomed “drug war”; not the UN “not [his] father”…I’m more thinking like The Hague.
– Thaksin to face investigation into his funding of terrorist elements tasked with the cultivation of fear and chaos throughout the entire “crisis” (the endless bombings etc)
– Red Shirt leaders who incited violence and carnage to face terrorism charges.
– Yellow Shirt leaders who hijacked the airports last year must also be held to account.
– The MICT and internet censorship in general should form the subject of a national debate where Thais (and even guests, perhaps) can discuss ‘offence’, cultural values, the value of free speech (even when, especially when, you disagree with what is being said), etc.
– Further steps to heal the rifts in Thai society undertaken; social welfare programs enhanced, sharing the wealth, giving every Thai citizen a voice, progress towards a more egalitarian society, particularly in the judicial setting.
– An entire overhaul of the electoral system to make representatives answerable to their constituents; strict penalties for MPs who believe they are “for sale”
– Free and general elections by end of 2011.
———
thoughts?
Sanitising Thai political history
LesAbbey#2 & #7 actually FYI: A staring point to the media onslaught against Thaksin goes back to when former PM Anand Panyarachun, closely aligned to the ruling elites & amaat, enabled the conditions for The Nation Multimedia Group and their Democrat Party mates to secure the ITV concession (at grossly overstated values). ITV was launched in 1996, which of course turned out to be a financial disaster which Thaksin later successfully took over, much to the chagrin of these interests. The so-called “independent” media then started a relentless campaign against Thaksin as they saw their own interests compromised. Thaksin reasonably replaced journalists who continued the slandering and propaganda & who were not prepared to cooperate with the new owners…sounds reasonable to me/
Prachatai manager arrested
Jonny, I think you can rest easy. I don’t think anyone here will be dobbing you into the censors for your brave stance.
Speak your mind by all means . Go out on that limb. If only everyone could.
Prachatai manager arrested
That’s a lovely phrase you coin Jonny, “the spirit of lese majeste”. Fills my heart with joy.
Sanitising Thai political history
This column by Pravit is no exception — for Pravit at least. He is a consistent breath of fresh air and good sense at The Nation. Since he returned from an academic leave in the U.S., his columns seem to have become more bold in standing up for free expression. I hope he is able to continue.
Prachatai manager arrested
[…] Sokapok comments on a post uploaded at New Mandala How have things got so wrong that some of us believe that trying to shut people up and ignore them instead of listening to them and incorporating their concerns is the foundation for political stability? Isn’t it stark ravingly obvious that the opposite is the case? Why can’t these people see that? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills […]