I would like see the issue of women legs be solved by economic development measure. I think Burma should join Indonesia-Malaysia-Thailand Growth Triangle: IMT-GT, which Thailand alone has already received an approval of $300 millions from Asian Development Bank (ADB).
I strongly believe economic development is a key component for advancing democracy, freedom, self-government and the rule of law of which the Burmese Military Leadership is pursuing.
ADB has already approved $519,000 millions US dollars for the entire 10 projects: 2 for Thailand, 2 for Malaysia and 6 for Indonesia.
I strongly urge international community to see the benefit of Burma’s participation in this triangle development.
Whether the revolution will turn violence or not is depending on the power holder and not the people that demanding it like some Utopian here like to believe that non-violence cause is the universal pill. Same principle with the quote from JFK “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
If I have my historiography down right, the move 450 years ago wasn’t from Luang Prabang, but rather from someplace up in Lanna, possibly Chiang Rai, down to Vientiane. Part of the deal was relocating thereto the two important Buddha images then in the possession of the Lao prince Sethathirath: the Phrakeo Morakot, and the Phra Bang. Around the time of the destruction of Ayutthaya by the Burmese, the Siamese seized them both from the Ho Phrakeo temple in Vientiane, which they burnt and razed, and while they several decades later returned the Phra Bang to the Lao (that’s why Luang Prabang is named as it is), the Phrakeo Morakot –aka the Emerald Buddha– has been the “palladium” legitimizing in part the Chakri dynasty, of which the present Thai king is the ninth, and for almost all of that time since has been sheltered in Bangkok at the Grand Palace. Check out the rather primitive, under construction, URL above, for more on the contretemps between certain Lao/Isaan irredentists (some of them now deceased), and certain excitable Thai chauvinists over the proper domiciling of the Phrakeo Morakot. It is my view, perhaps uninformed, that the recent Red Shirt unpleasantness stems in no small part from the complete destruction, by the Siamese, of the Lao Lane Xang capital Vientiane in 1827-28, the deporting of most of its former population across the Mekong, and the seizure and retention of the right bank Lao provinces which now comprise Isaan. That’s why, among other things, the Lao PDR contains about five million ethnic Lao and the present Thai kingdom contains about twenty million ethnic Lao.
>also shows how the the party-state continues to capitalise on its hold on power and Laos’ improving economic fortunes with increased boldness in historiographical matters, no matter how much creativity is required.
The conclusion that political and economic power is being used to rewrite history is the wrong way round. Lauding it’s improved economics and selected editing of the history is used to strengthen political power.
And rather than being particularly creative this sort of selective editing is very common to all governments everywhere. Considering the wholesale fabrications going on in the region these are rather mild.
Tarrin: Yes, you are correct here. Soldiers shot at groups of people, not specifically targeting journalists, from the way I saw things. (Of course does any one have absolute evidence that a soldier at a given time might have been pissed off and simply shot a journalist? No. But in general I think it’s easy to conclude that soldiers were doing that.) Yes, these protests should not be reduced to simple black and whites.
Superanonymous: If Agnes would have been killed I would have thought that she took a risk and lost. I guess I have been so harsh on Muramoto and Polenghi because I know pretty much what they were doing and where they were doing it and I felt how obvious it was that it was dangerous. I don’t know exactly where Agnes was so I feel more distant from her. Yeah, it does sound awfully callous describing these journalists as “stupid.” But if I have pissed off or aroused the emotions of any photojournalists who come across this blog than I will have served these journalists in the long run hopefully raising awareness of safety. Hopefully photojournalists will police themselves better and simply tell others when certain actions are just too dangerous.
Regarding the clearing of streets: Everything is about context. In 99% of situations using lethal force would be considered criminal. But these protests, though they may have started out peaceful and organized, changed after the grenade on April 10. At that point it ceased to be simply a citizen demonstration. It became a protest with a para military arm that was willing to use lethal force against soldiers. So now we have protesters who are not afraid to simply walk up to soldiers and breach their lines along with a faction within this group who will think nothing of shooting bullets or grenades at soldiers. It’s like my mother screaming at me and trying to hit me but really not catching up to me to actually hit me and then her saying, “You just wait ’till your father gets home.” Well, Dad did come home and he took out the belt and I got the message loud and clear. And that was the end of it.
So when soldiers set up sandbags and basically said, “Get off this street; we don’t want you here. And if you don’t get the message perhaps my shooting in your direction will help you understand.”
I understand this because I was basically hit as a child!
Would would happen back in my own country? Perhaps I’m biased because I am from the US and we have policeman who have guns and will use them, especially if you are shooting at them. The National Guard have been called in before and have threatened to kill on the spot looters and the like. This is nothing new for me. I lived in Chicago for twelve years and these soldiers here looked quaint compared to the police there.
Nick: “I do not need a conflict to take meaningful images.” Great statement.
The truth is I guess there isn’t one simple answer. I never saw a photo of a dead US soldier in Iraq until recently and I felt that it was so powerful. We do need to see the horror. I guess because I had not any pictures of a dead US soldier in Iraq that it was so horrifying, so powerful.
For those photojournalists who are conscientious about what they are doing, I guess I can say that I could only imagine how difficult their choices must be.
In the end we consumers must reward reporting that is more contextual and less sensationalist and then more photojournalists will be scrambling to get images that tell the story behind the story.
The pot calling the kettle black or a case of selected amnesia?
I bet you must be going back and forth freely between Rangoon and wherever in the West you’ve been living for more than you care to remember while I’ve been basically banned from Burma by the army since 1997 and put on the kill list by the Military Intelligence Service.
MIS even tried to kill me here in Sydney when I simply refused to cooperate with their drug smuggling operation while I was importing container loads of prawn meat from Burma.
What I’ve been writing here on NM also is now worth for me more than two death sentences back home while you are nicely accusing me of being a generals’ stooge. What the hell is going on Moe Aung?
Quite a few people are now asking me if you are my alter ego and I created you just to drum up controversy and thus creating publicity by persistently attacking my essays about Burma.
What I am writing seems intimate, but it is nothing personal. I am just writing what I honestly believe in after many years of suffering in this stupid affairs called Burma.
You know one thing, I must be either too stupid or rather too brave to care about my life as always. There is absolutely very few Burmese dare to express in public what they really believe in unless they are on the handsome payrolls of the likes of Sorros or NED or CIA.
You should read the hate emails I’ve been receiving privately since this Burma in Limbo series came out. At least I am glad that you dare to personally attack me on NM even though hiding under a pseudonym.
Keep up the good work by making this Burma debate alive!
I’s disappointed that non-violence revolution didn’t exist at that time, and very sorry that Archan Prasert’s ideology was betrayed. However, it’s a conclusion that there’s not non-violence revolution, so some people in society have to be sacrificed for an equal society in the future.
LesAbbey #33
The same as in China or Cambodia or Nepal, some people had to be sacrificed if they were useless or to be enemies of revolution, and high class or rich families who take advantage from the people not so huge to be sacrifices for our equal next generation. Not a lot of poor people and little rich people as in Thailand today. It’s depend on the majority of the people that after revolution they want to be the same as Nepal and take time to stand still then choose not to be the same or the same as in Cambodia that now which turns to be owned by a one family not by poor Khmers. That is the development in the future, as for our age now only change today society first.
Nick – the thought occurs to me that you have not one, but TWO new books developing here :
Book One – is latest update about the Red, Yellow, etc. struggle.
I.e a follow-on to your excellent first book.
(My good journalist friend here in Oz still has n’t returned it to me, after nearly a year : he loves it so much !!).
Book Two – is your highly professional approach to journalism : you’ve got a veritable compendium here on NM post alone, to publish something truly great about honest reporting in conflict situations, in a very different culture from the West.
Congratulations for your excellence – on both.
“Like all LPRP historiography, this demands a rather creative take on the Lao past, particularly when it comes to linking pre-modern Lao kingdoms with more recent struggles against France and the United States.”
What is SO “creative” about this “take on the Lao past” ?
The central point about the uprising which established the Lao PDR – whatever the subsequent economic mistakes – is that this was the establishment of a Lao State, run by the LAO people, for the LAO people against centuries of domination by the Thais, etc.
Suie Wong#4 :
“If you want to see legs and other stuffs, buy playboy magazine.”
Is there a Burmese Playboy magazine ?
Merely asking – I don’t want to get to0 carried away.
“Do photojournalists have lines they simply won’t cross?”
These are individual choices, i guess. I have set myself certain lines i try not to cross, but much depends on particular situations as well.
One of my main guidelines is that i try not to endanger people. That means practically that, for example, in cases when people tend to act for the camera in dangerous situations i take my camera down to discourage them from putting themselves at risk for some photos. When injured are transported i try to stand not in the way, snap images while people carrying the injured are passing me by, and when people are treated i work around them, not to get in the way of the EMS personnel.
I also strongly believe that it is our main job to survive to tell the story, and that we have to minimize and calculate the risks we are taking. I am not a combat photographer – i do not jet from one conflict to the next. I am more interested how conflicts begin and develop than in the actual conflict itself. When i see a conflict zone of a conflict that began long before i arrived on the scene, i generally feel completely misplaced, as i don’t understand anything. And i do not like this feeling at all. I always end up feeling like a vulture.
I do not need a conflict to take meaningful images, i still love and use my analog cameras, both 35mm and 120mm. I just use them for different subject matters which allow to work more creatively than in this Red/Yellow conflict, where i decided to work purely documentarian.
I am also more foremost a human and not just a camera, therefore many times i take my camera down when i see that my help is needed.
It is inevitable that we make mistakes at times, we are just human. But i try not to make too many mistakes.
Nevertheless, every photojournalist is different, there are many approaches, an endless multitude of styles. I, for example, do not mind showing horrible scenes when i need to, because i believe that they have to be seen unmasked in order to understand the ugly realities of life. There are others who believe that depicting such scenes crosses lines, and they will not do so.
I also question myself constantly – is what i am doing still OK, can i still live with myself. I want my work to be useful and educating (that is one of the reasons why i also began to write). Very importantly – i cannot allow myself to turn numb to the suffering of others – it would defeat the purpose of my work.
I thought they forced only Thais to move their capital from Ayuhtaya to Bangkok. Now we know they also were the reason for the Laotians moving their capital from Luang Prabang to Vientiane.
Maratjp, re your #89: If that is your basic point, we are not really in much disagreement. It just seemed to me you were wielding a pretty broad brush, for example when referring to Hiroyuki Muramoto carrying out his job in dangerous circumstances, you said ‘This is not courage, it’s stupidity…” If Agnes Dherbeys had been killed, you could easily have said the same about her, since being around armed men in black who would be the obvious targets for soldiers is not exactly a risk-free proposition. But we can agree, yes, that it’s not black-and-white?
Re your #85, “Or at least that’s what I assume from what I saw there. Soldiers fired from, what? A thousand meters? They were clearing the street, sending a message that they didn’t want you on that street.” If that account is anything like accurate, I find that astonishing: firing live rounds a kilometer down a major city street at a crowd of people no one has claimed was armed (and slingshots at that distance probably don’t represent much of a threat, if there were any). If those were the circumstances, I don’t see how any blame could accrue to the wounded Nation photographer, but I would think it shows close to criminal irresponsibility on the part of the soldiers. Clear the streets, fine, but that is not the way to do it.
Bungkok Pundit said, “For talk of Bangkokians suddenly becoming bored of politics, well in the last local elections in 2006 turnout was only 0.8% more so it hardly suggests any groundswell of dissatisfaction because of recent political events.
*In case you think that the Democrats domination in the District Council elections of winning 210 seats is surprising and may suggest a fundamental move to the Democrats in the Bangkok electorate, well it doesn’t. The Democrats won 203 seats in 2006.”
Truth is, Hla Oo, whereas you have killed I have not. You enlisted of your own free will to become a killer/cannon fodder at the bidding of your generals even if you were running away to escape from physical abuse at home. Your father was not however responsible for your PTSD. But you had to take it out on his dead hero and the daughter. Funny how you remain a loyal servant of your military masters and advocate peaceful negotiations with no hint of irony.
Race riots are the stuff of uneducated gullible people who follow populist leaders and demagogues all over the world. Indeed race and religion are the refuge of scoundrels. The military dictatorship in Burma has found this very expedient whenever they get into difficulties.
But that’s entirely different from the nationalism inherent in national liberation struggles in the colonised world. It’s when the colonisers failed to realise when it was time to get off. Churchill didn’t believe the Burmese were ready for self rule when we had been a sovereign state for at least a millennium before the British came.
Colonialists and dictators are unfortunately not in the habit of stepping down of their own accord. Churchill also said “Jaw, jaw, not war, war” when it suited him, but he was an arch colonialist who never shirked from violence when that suited him.
It’s nice to know that in your cosy little liberal democracy you are now a rehabilitated sinner. The peoples of Burma, notwithstanding Buddhism and other peaceful religions, sadly cannot afford to be totally committed to non-violence when state violence is an everyday reality.
“Burmese politicians and the army should just talk, negotiate, and compromise as there are enough killings already.”
How we would love to just talk and negotiate around the table, round the clock if needs be. Look where it’s got ASSK and the NLD. It’s a one way traffic if you haven’t noticed. Are these people ‘extreme nationalists’? Perhaps they should be. And may I ask who’s done most of the killing so far? “Not war, just peace baby” is ever so convenient when your generals demand, beyond resonable compromise, just straightforward collaboration and capitulation with a gun pointing to all our collective head. You lot are so scared that the worm will turn it’s pathetic.
Many of us came down with what I call a bad case of “Wow Syndrome” as soon as we landed in the West, some never to recover from it. I’ve lived in the West for longer than I care to remember, and I don’t stop at merely scratching the surface. It has only reinforced the world view and outlook on life that I came with.
It’s a common fallacy where people once they’ve settled in the West start thinking its wonderful ways of doing things simply ought to be transplanted or extrapolated on to their native land and all will be well. What they don’t always realise is that what these lucky people take as their birthrights were fought for and won by their forefathers shedding tears, blood and guts a long time ago. Many of them may well believe that it all evolved as a matter of course. The history of these lands in their more settled and peaceful times is still a series of progressive liberal reforms punctuated by right wing backlashes, the last one proving extremely durable so far. It is so easy to live a very shallow life in these lands.
I think I understand your point now. I don’t think the soldiers were targeting journalist in particular as you suggested, from many video posted I’m almost sure that they were shooting at everything that moved that’s why we see most (maybe all of) people who got killed/injured were unarmed and not a single “terrorists” casualty.
Tarrin: I was nearly on the receiving end at Din Daeng and Ratchaprarop when I heard a “ping” on metal right behind me as I rode by. Quite frightening. If I had been hit I would have blamed myself for taking the risk.
Superanonymous: I’ve never had a problem with great photos that photojournalists take like the one Agnes Dherbeys took on April 10th. My problem was with this “journalists were targeted” baloney because Fabio Polenghi and Hiro Muramoto were killed when in fact they had made very irresponsible choices.
And where do we draw the line on what is ethical in photojournalism? I got a much different perspective being there watching the action. That one shot by Agnes of that man in black on April 10th was a fantastic photo and it communicated so much information. But what do I think about a certain well known photographer, who shall remain nameless, that I see giddy with joy running in my direction dodging people right before an ambulance drives by? He was giddy because he ran up and probably just stuck his camera inside the ambulance and snapped away. He got his pound of flesh. A man covered in blood with holes in him was just objectified to the world. The photographer sends it off to an agency anxious to see what his “catch” brings him. And then off to the next war zone.
How would you feel if you saw this?
And this is what I was getting at with this bandana. It’s trivializing human suffering and this makes me sick.
Reminds me of the Kevin Carter photo of the vulture and the child.
I’d be interested to hear what professional photojournalists think of all of this. Do photojournalists have lines they simply won’t cross?
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Burmese women’s legs in the media
I would like see the issue of women legs be solved by economic development measure. I think Burma should join Indonesia-Malaysia-Thailand Growth Triangle: IMT-GT, which Thailand alone has already received an approval of $300 millions from Asian Development Bank (ADB).
I strongly believe economic development is a key component for advancing democracy, freedom, self-government and the rule of law of which the Burmese Military Leadership is pursuing.
ADB has already approved $519,000 millions US dollars for the entire 10 projects: 2 for Thailand, 2 for Malaysia and 6 for Indonesia.
I strongly urge international community to see the benefit of Burma’s participation in this triangle development.
Prachatai:
Thu, 2010-09-02 03:27
р╣Вр╕Чр╕ер╣Ар╕зр╕вр╣М р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕Фр╣Ир╕зр╕Щр╕лр╕▓р╕Фр╣Гр╕лр╕Нр╣И – р╕кр╕░р╣Ар╕Фр╕▓ р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щ 1 р╣Гр╕Щ 10 р╣Вр╕Др╕гр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕гр╣Ир╕Зр╕Фр╣Ир╕зр╕Щр╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╣Ар╕кр╕гр╕┤р╕бр╕кр╕гр╣Йр╕▓р╕Зр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╣Ар╕Кр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕бр╣Вр╕вр╕Зр╣Гр╕Щр╕нр╕Щр╕╕р╕ар╕╣р╕бр╕┤р╕ар╕▓р╕Д (Priority Connectivity Projects: PCPs) р╕Чр╕╡р╣И ADB р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Шр╕Щр╕▓р╕Др╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Юр╕▒р╕Тр╕Щр╕▓р╣Бр╕лр╣Ир╕Зр╣Ар╕нр╣Ар╕Кр╕╡р╕в р╕Юр╕гр╣Йр╕нр╕бр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕кр╕Щр╕▒р╕Ър╕кр╕Щр╕╕р╕Щр╣Ар╕Зр╕┤р╕Щр╕Бр╕╣р╣Йр╕Фр╕нр╕Бр╣Ар╕Ър╕╡р╣Йр╕вр╕Хр╣Ир╕│р╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Чр╕ир╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╣Вр╕Др╕гр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕г р╕ар╕▓р╕вр╣Гр╕Хр╣Йр╕Бр╕гр╕нр╕Ър╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕гр╣Ир╕зр╕бр╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Юр╕▒р╕Тр╕Щр╕▓р╣Ар╕ир╕гр╕йр╕Рр╕Бр╕┤р╕Ир╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕Эр╣Ир╕▓р╕в р╕нр╕┤р╕Щр╣Вр╕Фр╕Щр╕╡р╣Ар╕Лр╕╡р╕в р╕бр╕▓р╣Ар╕ер╣Ар╕Лр╕╡р╕в р╣Др╕Чр╕в р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕н Indonesia – Malaysia – Thailand Growth Triangle: IMT-GT
р╣Гр╕Щр╕Ир╕│р╕Щр╕зр╕Щ 10 р╣Вр╕Др╕гр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Фр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕з р╣Бр╕Ър╣Ир╕Зр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╣Вр╕Др╕гр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Гр╕Щр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Чр╕ир╣Др╕Чр╕в 2 р╣Вр╕Др╕гр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕г р╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╣Бр╕Бр╣И р╣Вр╕Др╕гр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Бр╣Ир╕нр╕кр╕гр╣Йр╕▓р╕Зр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕Фр╣Ир╕зр╕Щр╕Юр╕┤р╣Ар╕ир╕йр╕гр╕░р╕лр╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╣Ар╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕З р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕н р╕бр╕нр╣Ар╕Хр╕нр╕гр╣Мр╣Ар╕зр╕вр╣Мр╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╣Вр╕Чр╕ер╣Ар╕зр╕вр╣Мр╕лр╕▓р╕Фр╣Гр╕лр╕Нр╣И – р╕кр╕░р╣Ар╕Фр╕▓ р╕Ир╕▒р╕Зр╕лр╕зр╕▒р╕Фр╕кр╕Зр╕Вр╕ер╕▓ р╣Вр╕Фр╕вр╕бр╕╡р╕зр╕Зр╣Ар╕Зр╕┤р╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣И ADB р╕Юр╕гр╣Йр╕нр╕бр╕кр╕Щр╕▒р╕Ър╕кр╕Щр╕╕р╕Щр╕кр╕╣р╕Зр╕Цр╕╢р╕З 300 р╕ер╣Йр╕▓р╕Щр╣Ар╕лр╕гр╕╡р╕вр╕Нр╕кр╕лр╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕нр╣Ар╕бр╕гр╕┤р╕Бр╕▓ р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕▓р╕У 9,000 р╕ер╣Йр╕▓р╕Щр╕Ър╕▓р╕Ч
р╕кр╣Ир╕зр╕Щр╣Вр╕Др╕гр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕нр╕╖р╣Ир╕Щр╣Ж р╣Гр╕Щр╕Ир╕│р╕Щр╕зр╕Щ 10 р╣Вр╕Др╕гр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕г р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕лр╕ер╕╖р╕нр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕бр╕▓р╣Ар╕ер╣Ар╕Лр╕╡р╕в 2 р╣Вр╕Др╕гр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕г р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕нр╕┤р╕Щр╣Вр╕Фр╕Щр╕╡р╣Ар╕Лр╕╡р╕вр╕нр╕╡р╕Б 6 р╣Вр╕Др╕гр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕г р╕кр╣Ир╕зр╕Щр╣Гр╕лр╕Нр╣Ир╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╣Вр╕Др╕гр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Юр╕▒р╕Тр╕Щр╕▓р╣Вр╕Др╕гр╕Зр╕кр╕гр╣Йр╕▓р╕Зр╕Юр╕╖р╣Йр╕Щр╕Рр╕▓р╕Щ р╕гр╕зр╕бр╣Ар╕Зр╕┤р╕Щр╕бр╕╣р╕ер╕Др╣Ир╕▓р╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕З 10 р╣Вр╕Др╕гр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╣Ар╕Зр╕┤р╕Щ 5.19 р╕Юр╕▒р╕Щр╕ер╣Йр╕▓р╕Щр╣Ар╕лр╕гр╕╡р╕вр╕Нр╕кр╕лр╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕нр╣Ар╕бр╕гр╕┤р╕Бр╕▓ р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕▓р╕У 1.8 р╣Бр╕кр╕Щр╕ер╣Йр╕▓р╕Щр╕Ър╕▓р╕Ч
More on the “strategy of tension”
Chupong Red – 49
Whether the revolution will turn violence or not is depending on the power holder and not the people that demanding it like some Utopian here like to believe that non-violence cause is the universal pill. Same principle with the quote from JFK “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
National celebrations and historiography in Laos
Regarding Hla Oo’s comment, above…
If I have my historiography down right, the move 450 years ago wasn’t from Luang Prabang, but rather from someplace up in Lanna, possibly Chiang Rai, down to Vientiane. Part of the deal was relocating thereto the two important Buddha images then in the possession of the Lao prince Sethathirath: the Phrakeo Morakot, and the Phra Bang. Around the time of the destruction of Ayutthaya by the Burmese, the Siamese seized them both from the Ho Phrakeo temple in Vientiane, which they burnt and razed, and while they several decades later returned the Phra Bang to the Lao (that’s why Luang Prabang is named as it is), the Phrakeo Morakot –aka the Emerald Buddha– has been the “palladium” legitimizing in part the Chakri dynasty, of which the present Thai king is the ninth, and for almost all of that time since has been sheltered in Bangkok at the Grand Palace. Check out the rather primitive, under construction, URL above, for more on the contretemps between certain Lao/Isaan irredentists (some of them now deceased), and certain excitable Thai chauvinists over the proper domiciling of the Phrakeo Morakot. It is my view, perhaps uninformed, that the recent Red Shirt unpleasantness stems in no small part from the complete destruction, by the Siamese, of the Lao Lane Xang capital Vientiane in 1827-28, the deporting of most of its former population across the Mekong, and the seizure and retention of the right bank Lao provinces which now comprise Isaan. That’s why, among other things, the Lao PDR contains about five million ethnic Lao and the present Thai kingdom contains about twenty million ethnic Lao.
National celebrations and historiography in Laos
>also shows how the the party-state continues to capitalise on its hold on power and Laos’ improving economic fortunes with increased boldness in historiographical matters, no matter how much creativity is required.
The conclusion that political and economic power is being used to rewrite history is the wrong way round. Lauding it’s improved economics and selected editing of the history is used to strengthen political power.
And rather than being particularly creative this sort of selective editing is very common to all governments everywhere. Considering the wholesale fabrications going on in the region these are rather mild.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
Tarrin: Yes, you are correct here. Soldiers shot at groups of people, not specifically targeting journalists, from the way I saw things. (Of course does any one have absolute evidence that a soldier at a given time might have been pissed off and simply shot a journalist? No. But in general I think it’s easy to conclude that soldiers were doing that.) Yes, these protests should not be reduced to simple black and whites.
Superanonymous: If Agnes would have been killed I would have thought that she took a risk and lost. I guess I have been so harsh on Muramoto and Polenghi because I know pretty much what they were doing and where they were doing it and I felt how obvious it was that it was dangerous. I don’t know exactly where Agnes was so I feel more distant from her. Yeah, it does sound awfully callous describing these journalists as “stupid.” But if I have pissed off or aroused the emotions of any photojournalists who come across this blog than I will have served these journalists in the long run hopefully raising awareness of safety. Hopefully photojournalists will police themselves better and simply tell others when certain actions are just too dangerous.
Regarding the clearing of streets: Everything is about context. In 99% of situations using lethal force would be considered criminal. But these protests, though they may have started out peaceful and organized, changed after the grenade on April 10. At that point it ceased to be simply a citizen demonstration. It became a protest with a para military arm that was willing to use lethal force against soldiers. So now we have protesters who are not afraid to simply walk up to soldiers and breach their lines along with a faction within this group who will think nothing of shooting bullets or grenades at soldiers. It’s like my mother screaming at me and trying to hit me but really not catching up to me to actually hit me and then her saying, “You just wait ’till your father gets home.” Well, Dad did come home and he took out the belt and I got the message loud and clear. And that was the end of it.
So when soldiers set up sandbags and basically said, “Get off this street; we don’t want you here. And if you don’t get the message perhaps my shooting in your direction will help you understand.”
I understand this because I was basically hit as a child!
Would would happen back in my own country? Perhaps I’m biased because I am from the US and we have policeman who have guns and will use them, especially if you are shooting at them. The National Guard have been called in before and have threatened to kill on the spot looters and the like. This is nothing new for me. I lived in Chicago for twelve years and these soldiers here looked quaint compared to the police there.
Nick: “I do not need a conflict to take meaningful images.” Great statement.
The truth is I guess there isn’t one simple answer. I never saw a photo of a dead US soldier in Iraq until recently and I felt that it was so powerful. We do need to see the horror. I guess because I had not any pictures of a dead US soldier in Iraq that it was so horrifying, so powerful.
For those photojournalists who are conscientious about what they are doing, I guess I can say that I could only imagine how difficult their choices must be.
In the end we consumers must reward reporting that is more contextual and less sensationalist and then more photojournalists will be scrambling to get images that tell the story behind the story.
Burma in Limbo, Part 2
Moe Aung,
The pot calling the kettle black or a case of selected amnesia?
I bet you must be going back and forth freely between Rangoon and wherever in the West you’ve been living for more than you care to remember while I’ve been basically banned from Burma by the army since 1997 and put on the kill list by the Military Intelligence Service.
MIS even tried to kill me here in Sydney when I simply refused to cooperate with their drug smuggling operation while I was importing container loads of prawn meat from Burma.
What I’ve been writing here on NM also is now worth for me more than two death sentences back home while you are nicely accusing me of being a generals’ stooge. What the hell is going on Moe Aung?
Quite a few people are now asking me if you are my alter ego and I created you just to drum up controversy and thus creating publicity by persistently attacking my essays about Burma.
What I am writing seems intimate, but it is nothing personal. I am just writing what I honestly believe in after many years of suffering in this stupid affairs called Burma.
You know one thing, I must be either too stupid or rather too brave to care about my life as always. There is absolutely very few Burmese dare to express in public what they really believe in unless they are on the handsome payrolls of the likes of Sorros or NED or CIA.
You should read the hate emails I’ve been receiving privately since this Burma in Limbo series came out. At least I am glad that you dare to personally attack me on NM even though hiding under a pseudonym.
Keep up the good work by making this Burma debate alive!
More on the “strategy of tension”
Tarrin #47
I’s disappointed that non-violence revolution didn’t exist at that time, and very sorry that Archan Prasert’s ideology was betrayed. However, it’s a conclusion that there’s not non-violence revolution, so some people in society have to be sacrificed for an equal society in the future.
LesAbbey #33
The same as in China or Cambodia or Nepal, some people had to be sacrificed if they were useless or to be enemies of revolution, and high class or rich families who take advantage from the people not so huge to be sacrifices for our equal next generation. Not a lot of poor people and little rich people as in Thailand today. It’s depend on the majority of the people that after revolution they want to be the same as Nepal and take time to stand still then choose not to be the same or the same as in Cambodia that now which turns to be owned by a one family not by poor Khmers. That is the development in the future, as for our age now only change today society first.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
Nick – the thought occurs to me that you have not one, but TWO new books developing here :
Book One – is latest update about the Red, Yellow, etc. struggle.
I.e a follow-on to your excellent first book.
(My good journalist friend here in Oz still has n’t returned it to me, after nearly a year : he loves it so much !!).
Book Two – is your highly professional approach to journalism : you’ve got a veritable compendium here on NM post alone, to publish something truly great about honest reporting in conflict situations, in a very different culture from the West.
Congratulations for your excellence – on both.
National celebrations and historiography in Laos
“Like all LPRP historiography, this demands a rather creative take on the Lao past, particularly when it comes to linking pre-modern Lao kingdoms with more recent struggles against France and the United States.”
What is SO “creative” about this “take on the Lao past” ?
The central point about the uprising which established the Lao PDR – whatever the subsequent economic mistakes – is that this was the establishment of a Lao State, run by the LAO people, for the LAO people against centuries of domination by the Thais, etc.
Bangkok elections – any good data?
From Bangkok Gov :: http://www.prbangkok.com/%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%B7%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%B1%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%87-%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%81-%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%82
On the front line of globalisation
haha cool are you going to go to uni next yr jordan
Burmese women’s legs in the media
Suie Wong#4 :
“If you want to see legs and other stuffs, buy playboy magazine.”
Is there a Burmese Playboy magazine ?
Merely asking – I don’t want to get to0 carried away.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
“Maratjp”:
“Do photojournalists have lines they simply won’t cross?”
These are individual choices, i guess. I have set myself certain lines i try not to cross, but much depends on particular situations as well.
One of my main guidelines is that i try not to endanger people. That means practically that, for example, in cases when people tend to act for the camera in dangerous situations i take my camera down to discourage them from putting themselves at risk for some photos. When injured are transported i try to stand not in the way, snap images while people carrying the injured are passing me by, and when people are treated i work around them, not to get in the way of the EMS personnel.
I also strongly believe that it is our main job to survive to tell the story, and that we have to minimize and calculate the risks we are taking. I am not a combat photographer – i do not jet from one conflict to the next. I am more interested how conflicts begin and develop than in the actual conflict itself. When i see a conflict zone of a conflict that began long before i arrived on the scene, i generally feel completely misplaced, as i don’t understand anything. And i do not like this feeling at all. I always end up feeling like a vulture.
I do not need a conflict to take meaningful images, i still love and use my analog cameras, both 35mm and 120mm. I just use them for different subject matters which allow to work more creatively than in this Red/Yellow conflict, where i decided to work purely documentarian.
I am also more foremost a human and not just a camera, therefore many times i take my camera down when i see that my help is needed.
It is inevitable that we make mistakes at times, we are just human. But i try not to make too many mistakes.
Nevertheless, every photojournalist is different, there are many approaches, an endless multitude of styles. I, for example, do not mind showing horrible scenes when i need to, because i believe that they have to be seen unmasked in order to understand the ugly realities of life. There are others who believe that depicting such scenes crosses lines, and they will not do so.
I also question myself constantly – is what i am doing still OK, can i still live with myself. I want my work to be useful and educating (that is one of the reasons why i also began to write). Very importantly – i cannot allow myself to turn numb to the suffering of others – it would defeat the purpose of my work.
National celebrations and historiography in Laos
Damned Burmese!
I thought they forced only Thais to move their capital from Ayuhtaya to Bangkok. Now we know they also were the reason for the Laotians moving their capital from Luang Prabang to Vientiane.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
Maratjp, re your #89: If that is your basic point, we are not really in much disagreement. It just seemed to me you were wielding a pretty broad brush, for example when referring to Hiroyuki Muramoto carrying out his job in dangerous circumstances, you said ‘This is not courage, it’s stupidity…” If Agnes Dherbeys had been killed, you could easily have said the same about her, since being around armed men in black who would be the obvious targets for soldiers is not exactly a risk-free proposition. But we can agree, yes, that it’s not black-and-white?
Re your #85, “Or at least that’s what I assume from what I saw there. Soldiers fired from, what? A thousand meters? They were clearing the street, sending a message that they didn’t want you on that street.” If that account is anything like accurate, I find that astonishing: firing live rounds a kilometer down a major city street at a crowd of people no one has claimed was armed (and slingshots at that distance probably don’t represent much of a threat, if there were any). If those were the circumstances, I don’t see how any blame could accrue to the wounded Nation photographer, but I would think it shows close to criminal irresponsibility on the part of the soldiers. Clear the streets, fine, but that is not the way to do it.
Bangkok elections – any good data?
Bungkok Pundit said, “For talk of Bangkokians suddenly becoming bored of politics, well in the last local elections in 2006 turnout was only 0.8% more so it hardly suggests any groundswell of dissatisfaction because of recent political events.
*In case you think that the Democrats domination in the District Council elections of winning 210 seats is surprising and may suggest a fundamental move to the Democrats in the Bangkok electorate, well it doesn’t. The Democrats won 203 seats in 2006.”
Burma in Limbo, Part 2
Truth is, Hla Oo, whereas you have killed I have not. You enlisted of your own free will to become a killer/cannon fodder at the bidding of your generals even if you were running away to escape from physical abuse at home. Your father was not however responsible for your PTSD. But you had to take it out on his dead hero and the daughter. Funny how you remain a loyal servant of your military masters and advocate peaceful negotiations with no hint of irony.
Race riots are the stuff of uneducated gullible people who follow populist leaders and demagogues all over the world. Indeed race and religion are the refuge of scoundrels. The military dictatorship in Burma has found this very expedient whenever they get into difficulties.
But that’s entirely different from the nationalism inherent in national liberation struggles in the colonised world. It’s when the colonisers failed to realise when it was time to get off. Churchill didn’t believe the Burmese were ready for self rule when we had been a sovereign state for at least a millennium before the British came.
Colonialists and dictators are unfortunately not in the habit of stepping down of their own accord. Churchill also said “Jaw, jaw, not war, war” when it suited him, but he was an arch colonialist who never shirked from violence when that suited him.
It’s nice to know that in your cosy little liberal democracy you are now a rehabilitated sinner. The peoples of Burma, notwithstanding Buddhism and other peaceful religions, sadly cannot afford to be totally committed to non-violence when state violence is an everyday reality.
“Burmese politicians and the army should just talk, negotiate, and compromise as there are enough killings already.”
How we would love to just talk and negotiate around the table, round the clock if needs be. Look where it’s got ASSK and the NLD. It’s a one way traffic if you haven’t noticed. Are these people ‘extreme nationalists’? Perhaps they should be. And may I ask who’s done most of the killing so far? “Not war, just peace baby” is ever so convenient when your generals demand, beyond resonable compromise, just straightforward collaboration and capitulation with a gun pointing to all our collective head. You lot are so scared that the worm will turn it’s pathetic.
Many of us came down with what I call a bad case of “Wow Syndrome” as soon as we landed in the West, some never to recover from it. I’ve lived in the West for longer than I care to remember, and I don’t stop at merely scratching the surface. It has only reinforced the world view and outlook on life that I came with.
It’s a common fallacy where people once they’ve settled in the West start thinking its wonderful ways of doing things simply ought to be transplanted or extrapolated on to their native land and all will be well. What they don’t always realise is that what these lucky people take as their birthrights were fought for and won by their forefathers shedding tears, blood and guts a long time ago. Many of them may well believe that it all evolved as a matter of course. The history of these lands in their more settled and peaceful times is still a series of progressive liberal reforms punctuated by right wing backlashes, the last one proving extremely durable so far. It is so easy to live a very shallow life in these lands.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
Maratjp 89
I think I understand your point now. I don’t think the soldiers were targeting journalist in particular as you suggested, from many video posted I’m almost sure that they were shooting at everything that moved that’s why we see most (maybe all of) people who got killed/injured were unarmed and not a single “terrorists” casualty.
Abhisit and Thailand’s bad men
Is he a good man or a bad man?
???????????????????????????
He is a politician. Thailand proclaims to be a democracy.
I say let the electorate judge him and his actions in a fair election.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
Tarrin: I was nearly on the receiving end at Din Daeng and Ratchaprarop when I heard a “ping” on metal right behind me as I rode by. Quite frightening. If I had been hit I would have blamed myself for taking the risk.
Superanonymous: I’ve never had a problem with great photos that photojournalists take like the one Agnes Dherbeys took on April 10th. My problem was with this “journalists were targeted” baloney because Fabio Polenghi and Hiro Muramoto were killed when in fact they had made very irresponsible choices.
And where do we draw the line on what is ethical in photojournalism? I got a much different perspective being there watching the action. That one shot by Agnes of that man in black on April 10th was a fantastic photo and it communicated so much information. But what do I think about a certain well known photographer, who shall remain nameless, that I see giddy with joy running in my direction dodging people right before an ambulance drives by? He was giddy because he ran up and probably just stuck his camera inside the ambulance and snapped away. He got his pound of flesh. A man covered in blood with holes in him was just objectified to the world. The photographer sends it off to an agency anxious to see what his “catch” brings him. And then off to the next war zone.
How would you feel if you saw this?
And this is what I was getting at with this bandana. It’s trivializing human suffering and this makes me sick.
Reminds me of the Kevin Carter photo of the vulture and the child.
I’d be interested to hear what professional photojournalists think of all of this. Do photojournalists have lines they simply won’t cross?