The apologists for the April/May deaths on this thread are disgusting moral retards.
Why is Fabio’s death being covered up?
a) Cos the army have something to hide.
b) Because when it comes out he was shot with an army sniper’s bullet (ie deliberately targeted) it instantly internationalises Thailand’s domestic conflict – shooting Thai nationals is one thing – assassinating foreigners is another. The rationale it was “cross fire” is absurd and if there was evidence of that, believe me, the Thai authorities would’ve rushed it out instantly. They haven’t. They’ve covered up.
c) Kneejerk reaction – the Thai elite’s entire rationale is about cover up. It forms the cornerstone of their hegemony – the death of Ananda. What is cast-iron is that the elite, in full knowledge of the facts, let 3 innocent people be murdered by the state over Ananda’s death. These people are capable of anything. Fabio is nothing to them. Or, it seems, the disgusting moral retards on this thread who are apologists for the April/May deaths.
There’s nothing mysterious about a photographer getting killed while covering an armed conflict from the front line. He took a significant risk and he ran out of luck.
There’s a good chance that he was was shot by the army. But was it a carefully considered shot deliberately targeting a foreign journalist? I very much doubt it. They had asked the media to leave. The guy was running with a violent mob wearing a *black* t-shirt and gear. He probably crossed the sights of some terrified soldier at the wrong time.
The suggestion that the black shirts couldn’t have been responsible because they’d bottled themselves up together in one conveniently gassable skytrain station and were out of range is ridiculous. According to the army debriefing, black shirt snipers held positions at most of the intersections. They had arranged very good coverage, as you’d expect any sane militants would.
Anyway, I got a chuckle from the reference to “a mysterious man of Asian appearance” who took the camera. At least that was portrayed with only a hint of conspiracy.
Note that Wikileaks has just been blocked in Thailand. Being overseas I looked into the site for the first time ever and found that the reason for the block is most likely due to an article about a dog’s birthday party and a related video link. The block is likely to arouse fresh interest in the video which already did the rounds in most Thai towns and villages in CVD format when it was first released.
The fact that there has been 3 months of silence and a refusal to release the autopsy report speaks volumes: he was killed by the Royal Thai Army. Anyone who doesn’t believe that needs to take a refresher course on Thai politics. All of the deaths that occurred on April 10 and May 19 are important, but Fabio’s at least has the Italian embassy making inquiries, and perhaps if HRW and Amnesty International get involved the DSI might be pressured enough to release findings.
I find the attitudes of Charles F and Nobody very disturbing because they encourage a cynical fatalism where people’s deaths just don’t really matter.
What’s more it is not true. Some people no doubt will just pick the villain based on their political leanings and stick with that choice no matter what.
Others sift and weight the evidence and genuinely want to know the truth of the situation.
The government has some evidence and that evidence would help in the forming of more rational, more just conclusions.
And more generally, if the government was interested i n truth, they would encourage freer flows of information.\
I am indeed very busy, we are just doing the finishing touches to the second volume of Red vs. Yellow (much delayed because of the mess). At the same time i have to research much of what happened that we haven’t been able to see, and also follow up the events now. And i needed, after the dispersal, about one month recuperation.
I only write articles here when i really have something to say, and the time to say it as well. For a while i have been pondering about writing an article, but i just don’t have the time to do it now.
Don’t worry, i am still here, and still follow what is going on, and will continue working on this. I am not throwing nearly 5 years of work into the toilet. 😉
AW c38. Why not directly offer them an opportunity to respond rather than just talk about open invites. That I believe is a fairly common prcatice when allegations are made.
Jao C40. Why would I be approaching someone to respond on a site that is not mine even if I knew the person. My point is you either believe in running a balanced site which means the site owners asking directly for a response and if being declined stating so or the site just becomes in effect a propaganda site for one site. Do you believe in presenting a variety of sides and allowing people to make their own minds up or do you believe in indoctrination? Sometimes it is difficult to keep things balanced because it means apprioaching people you dont agree with and asking for a repsonse, but if you believe in balance, you would do it.
I can see your point here, what amazed me even more is that once we have this candidate running for Miss Thailand Universe (or World I dont recall) who is not even half Thai, she was a 100% Thailand born Brit.
You didn’t even read the article didn’t you? that was another journalist that got injured by grenade, Fabio was shot around the chest area on the Red side with another Dutch journalist beside him who got shot in the leg.
Maratjp – 3
What you said is an insult to many journalists out there who risk their life in the god forsaken place like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Gaza just to bring the news to the out side world. Without them we wouldn’t know what the Israeli had done to the Palestinians or what the Iraqis had done to the Kurd. Just because they stand on the different side of the barricade so their life doesn’t deserve some respect?
Investigating the deaths of May are important, but to place them on par with Ananda’s death and the Saudi jewel case is hyberbolic and wishful thinking.
Why would the death of a journalist be a bigger case than, say, the gaping holes in the events of October 1976, October 1973, and May 1992, the vanishing of lawyer Somchai, the police ownership of Santika before the fire, or the unclaimed assassinations of Col Romklao and Seh Daeng?
The Ananda and Saudi jewel case potentially indicts current members of the monarchy, the highest and most sacred institution in Thailand, the the keystone to the kingdom’s military-economic-cultural power structure. The Fabio case potentially…what? Confirms what we know, that bullets were flying, that the Thai army showed poor ground management, that journalists were targeted by both guns and Facebook smears?
The suppression of the autopsy strongly suggests it was a sniper, since a ground-level bullet gives the army plausible deniability. But even if it was provably a sniper, does anyone see that as a huge story outside journo circles? “He was in black, there was smoke, reds were armed, errors were inevitable, we regret the death,” says handsome Army spokesmodel.
The Queen’s guard grads and their building military power monopoly is the real story here, but its attachment to the Fabio case is contrived at best.
Just because someone who’s old and ill doesn’t appear in public doesn’t mean anything is amiss — unless that person is skipping regularly scheduled public appearances. When Steve Jobs lays low, it means nothing, but if he skips a keynote at MacWorld Expo, Apple’s share price loses 10%.
Similarly, the king missing a birthday speech, swearing-in of judges, or a robe ceremony is newsworthy, but simply not appearing every 30 days to wave at cameras is not.
I have no doubt that in the event of his passing, vested powers will detain the news until certain arrangements are secured, but to speculate that “we’ve heard nothing, which would happen if he died, therefore the silence proves he’s dead” is false. “If A, then B” does not prove “if B, therefore A.”
Furthermore, expressing certainty in such unproven matters strikes me as an unnecessary flirtation with LM laws. It’s bad enough that people are persecuted for valid discussions, why fuel the law’s supporters with actual examples of baseless rumors?
In United States Marine Corp qualification shooting, hits out to 500 meters and beyond are commonplace.
A lot of Thai soldiers and marines are taught marksmanship by the USMC.
As to who killed Mr. Fabio – flip a coin. There were shooters on both sides.
Jakrapob is a communist fruitcake, openly admitted he is going to wage a violent, armed struggle to over throw the government, then whines about being repressed when he fails to get enough guns and bodies out onto the street this year (2009 AND 2010).
Now he has openly admitted to having foreign backers, though he refuses to mention who they are.
Maybe they are part of the Chatham House, the globalist policy press that Amsterdam & Peroff are major members of – and who are currently running legal defense and lobbying services for not only Thaksin, but the UDD mob as well. Or could they be from the International Crisis Group, publishing “papers” that repeat verbatim Amsterdam’s ultimatums, and include members such as George Soros, Kenneth Adelman (former Thaksin lobbyist), and every big bank on the other side of the Atlantic.
Yes, I’m sure Goldman Sachs, the Economist, Barclays, and the rest are all just concerned about the “people.” It just warms the cockles of my heart. And so I wonder if the rest of you are just plain illiterate, or if you’re getting paid to humiliate yourselves by agreeing with a puppet shill like Jakrapob, who hasn’t spent a day in his life as a “prai” peasant.
While at face value it is noble to want to improve the poor’s plight, Thaksin, the PTP, and the UDD are up and down trash – gangsters, crooks, millionaires in their own rights, who have a consistent record of NOT caring, benefiting from immense double standards, etc. If change is going to come, it surely will not be carried on this ‘red wave.’ You’re going to end up with Hun Sen’s Cambodia – who comically, also has a “People’s Power Party,” makes long winded socialist speeches, then sells everyone’s land to foreign investers out from under them under force of his military. How progressive! Let’s not forget Thaksin is his economic adviser – I suppose they know or hope the Prai don’t read the Guardian!
As of August 2010, China, India, the U.S., Thailand are not the States Parties to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. In this particular case, only Cambodia has ratified and acceded to the Rome Statute, the treaty that established the International Criminal Court. In other words, it was Cambodia people who pursued the case against those who committed Crimes Against Humanity in Cambodia. China, India, Thailand, and the U.S. have no power to pursue the case because none of them are parties to the Rome Statute.
Mr. Widyono’s argument is invalid — the premises do not lead logically to the conclusion. There is no external force here to intervene into Cambodian’s domestic affairs on pursuing the case of Crimes Against Humanity. China, India, Thailand, and the U.S. are not member of the Rome Statute, they simply have no power whatsoever to interfere. It was Cambodian people themselves who pursued the trial against the perpetrators on Crimes Against Humanity. Mr. Widyono set up a false analogy.
In my opinion, Cambodia would like their own people to understand that, “Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it.”
George Santayana, 1905
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Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
The apologists for the April/May deaths on this thread are disgusting moral retards.
Why is Fabio’s death being covered up?
a) Cos the army have something to hide.
b) Because when it comes out he was shot with an army sniper’s bullet (ie deliberately targeted) it instantly internationalises Thailand’s domestic conflict – shooting Thai nationals is one thing – assassinating foreigners is another. The rationale it was “cross fire” is absurd and if there was evidence of that, believe me, the Thai authorities would’ve rushed it out instantly. They haven’t. They’ve covered up.
c) Kneejerk reaction – the Thai elite’s entire rationale is about cover up. It forms the cornerstone of their hegemony – the death of Ananda. What is cast-iron is that the elite, in full knowledge of the facts, let 3 innocent people be murdered by the state over Ananda’s death. These people are capable of anything. Fabio is nothing to them. Or, it seems, the disgusting moral retards on this thread who are apologists for the April/May deaths.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
There’s nothing mysterious about a photographer getting killed while covering an armed conflict from the front line. He took a significant risk and he ran out of luck.
There’s a good chance that he was was shot by the army. But was it a carefully considered shot deliberately targeting a foreign journalist? I very much doubt it. They had asked the media to leave. The guy was running with a violent mob wearing a *black* t-shirt and gear. He probably crossed the sights of some terrified soldier at the wrong time.
The suggestion that the black shirts couldn’t have been responsible because they’d bottled themselves up together in one conveniently gassable skytrain station and were out of range is ridiculous. According to the army debriefing, black shirt snipers held positions at most of the intersections. They had arranged very good coverage, as you’d expect any sane militants would.
Anyway, I got a chuckle from the reference to “a mysterious man of Asian appearance” who took the camera. At least that was portrayed with only a hint of conspiracy.
Big questions for Thailand
Note that Wikileaks has just been blocked in Thailand. Being overseas I looked into the site for the first time ever and found that the reason for the block is most likely due to an article about a dog’s birthday party and a related video link. The block is likely to arouse fresh interest in the video which already did the rounds in most Thai towns and villages in CVD format when it was first released.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
The fact that there has been 3 months of silence and a refusal to release the autopsy report speaks volumes: he was killed by the Royal Thai Army. Anyone who doesn’t believe that needs to take a refresher course on Thai politics. All of the deaths that occurred on April 10 and May 19 are important, but Fabio’s at least has the Italian embassy making inquiries, and perhaps if HRW and Amnesty International get involved the DSI might be pressured enough to release findings.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
I find the attitudes of Charles F and Nobody very disturbing because they encourage a cynical fatalism where people’s deaths just don’t really matter.
What’s more it is not true. Some people no doubt will just pick the villain based on their political leanings and stick with that choice no matter what.
Others sift and weight the evidence and genuinely want to know the truth of the situation.
The government has some evidence and that evidence would help in the forming of more rational, more just conclusions.
And more generally, if the government was interested i n truth, they would encourage freer flows of information.\
Review of The Art and Architecture of the People’s Party
observer 6
See “Education of the Clone” by me in New Mandala. It was published on 16 Feb 2010.
The new Origin has begun.
Best wishes
Sawarin Suwichakornpong
——-
Too much writing, little thinking
Too much talking, little understanding
Thailand’s war with the foreign media
“tukkae”:
As Nich said, i am still around 😉
I am indeed very busy, we are just doing the finishing touches to the second volume of Red vs. Yellow (much delayed because of the mess). At the same time i have to research much of what happened that we haven’t been able to see, and also follow up the events now. And i needed, after the dispersal, about one month recuperation.
I only write articles here when i really have something to say, and the time to say it as well. For a while i have been pondering about writing an article, but i just don’t have the time to do it now.
Don’t worry, i am still here, and still follow what is going on, and will continue working on this. I am not throwing nearly 5 years of work into the toilet. 😉
Robert Amsterdam on a “Strategy of Tension” in Bangkok
AW c38. Why not directly offer them an opportunity to respond rather than just talk about open invites. That I believe is a fairly common prcatice when allegations are made.
Jao C40. Why would I be approaching someone to respond on a site that is not mine even if I knew the person. My point is you either believe in running a balanced site which means the site owners asking directly for a response and if being declined stating so or the site just becomes in effect a propaganda site for one site. Do you believe in presenting a variety of sides and allowing people to make their own minds up or do you believe in indoctrination? Sometimes it is difficult to keep things balanced because it means apprioaching people you dont agree with and asking for a repsonse, but if you believe in balance, you would do it.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
People are going to believe what they want to believe. There will never be evidence to prove it one way or the other.
Charles F gets it right in his final sentence.
Now it is just up to how it will be propgandaized and used by the various players with vested interests.
Charles Keyes on Sondhi Limthongkul
BKK Lawyer- 53
I can see your point here, what amazed me even more is that once we have this candidate running for Miss Thailand Universe (or World I dont recall) who is not even half Thai, she was a 100% Thailand born Brit.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
Whoever – 5
You didn’t even read the article didn’t you? that was another journalist that got injured by grenade, Fabio was shot around the chest area on the Red side with another Dutch journalist beside him who got shot in the leg.
Maratjp – 3
What you said is an insult to many journalists out there who risk their life in the god forsaken place like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Gaza just to bring the news to the out side world. Without them we wouldn’t know what the Israeli had done to the Palestinians or what the Iraqis had done to the Kurd. Just because they stand on the different side of the barricade so their life doesn’t deserve some respect?
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
Investigating the deaths of May are important, but to place them on par with Ananda’s death and the Saudi jewel case is hyberbolic and wishful thinking.
Why would the death of a journalist be a bigger case than, say, the gaping holes in the events of October 1976, October 1973, and May 1992, the vanishing of lawyer Somchai, the police ownership of Santika before the fire, or the unclaimed assassinations of Col Romklao and Seh Daeng?
The Ananda and Saudi jewel case potentially indicts current members of the monarchy, the highest and most sacred institution in Thailand, the the keystone to the kingdom’s military-economic-cultural power structure. The Fabio case potentially…what? Confirms what we know, that bullets were flying, that the Thai army showed poor ground management, that journalists were targeted by both guns and Facebook smears?
The suppression of the autopsy strongly suggests it was a sniper, since a ground-level bullet gives the army plausible deniability. But even if it was provably a sniper, does anyone see that as a huge story outside journo circles? “He was in black, there was smoke, reds were armed, errors were inevitable, we regret the death,” says handsome Army spokesmodel.
The Queen’s guard grads and their building military power monopoly is the real story here, but its attachment to the Fabio case is contrived at best.
Thailand’s war with the foreign media
Chris Beale @28:
Just because someone who’s old and ill doesn’t appear in public doesn’t mean anything is amiss — unless that person is skipping regularly scheduled public appearances. When Steve Jobs lays low, it means nothing, but if he skips a keynote at MacWorld Expo, Apple’s share price loses 10%.
Similarly, the king missing a birthday speech, swearing-in of judges, or a robe ceremony is newsworthy, but simply not appearing every 30 days to wave at cameras is not.
I have no doubt that in the event of his passing, vested powers will detain the news until certain arrangements are secured, but to speculate that “we’ve heard nothing, which would happen if he died, therefore the silence proves he’s dead” is false. “If A, then B” does not prove “if B, therefore A.”
Furthermore, expressing certainty in such unproven matters strikes me as an unnecessary flirtation with LM laws. It’s bad enough that people are persecuted for valid discussions, why fuel the law’s supporters with actual examples of baseless rumors?
Charles Keyes on Sondhi Limthongkul
Chris Beale @ 52 [Aug 18, 2010 at 1:20 am]:
Your point is taken, but note that Giles is ┬╜ British (his mother was British). Abhisit is not, nor is HMK half American.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
In United States Marine Corp qualification shooting, hits out to 500 meters and beyond are commonplace.
A lot of Thai soldiers and marines are taught marksmanship by the USMC.
As to who killed Mr. Fabio – flip a coin. There were shooters on both sides.
Jakrapob on the state within the state
Jakrapob is a communist fruitcake, openly admitted he is going to wage a violent, armed struggle to over throw the government, then whines about being repressed when he fails to get enough guns and bodies out onto the street this year (2009 AND 2010).
Now he has openly admitted to having foreign backers, though he refuses to mention who they are.
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2010/s2969629.htm
Maybe they are part of the Chatham House, the globalist policy press that Amsterdam & Peroff are major members of – and who are currently running legal defense and lobbying services for not only Thaksin, but the UDD mob as well. Or could they be from the International Crisis Group, publishing “papers” that repeat verbatim Amsterdam’s ultimatums, and include members such as George Soros, Kenneth Adelman (former Thaksin lobbyist), and every big bank on the other side of the Atlantic.
Yes, I’m sure Goldman Sachs, the Economist, Barclays, and the rest are all just concerned about the “people.” It just warms the cockles of my heart. And so I wonder if the rest of you are just plain illiterate, or if you’re getting paid to humiliate yourselves by agreeing with a puppet shill like Jakrapob, who hasn’t spent a day in his life as a “prai” peasant.
While at face value it is noble to want to improve the poor’s plight, Thaksin, the PTP, and the UDD are up and down trash – gangsters, crooks, millionaires in their own rights, who have a consistent record of NOT caring, benefiting from immense double standards, etc. If change is going to come, it surely will not be carried on this ‘red wave.’ You’re going to end up with Hun Sen’s Cambodia – who comically, also has a “People’s Power Party,” makes long winded socialist speeches, then sells everyone’s land to foreign investers out from under them under force of his military. How progressive! Let’s not forget Thaksin is his economic adviser – I suppose they know or hope the Prai don’t read the Guardian!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/26/cambodia
An alternative view of the Duch verdict in Cambodia
As of August 2010, China, India, the U.S., Thailand are not the States Parties to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. In this particular case, only Cambodia has ratified and acceded to the Rome Statute, the treaty that established the International Criminal Court. In other words, it was Cambodia people who pursued the case against those who committed Crimes Against Humanity in Cambodia. China, India, Thailand, and the U.S. have no power to pursue the case because none of them are parties to the Rome Statute.
Mr. Widyono’s argument is invalid — the premises do not lead logically to the conclusion. There is no external force here to intervene into Cambodian’s domestic affairs on pursuing the case of Crimes Against Humanity. China, India, Thailand, and the U.S. are not member of the Rome Statute, they simply have no power whatsoever to interfere. It was Cambodian people themselves who pursued the trial against the perpetrators on Crimes Against Humanity. Mr. Widyono set up a false analogy.
In my opinion, Cambodia would like their own people to understand that, “Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it.”
George Santayana, 1905
Thailand’s war with the foreign media
Dear Tukkae,
Nick is well — just busy with a bunch of major projects.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
Maratjp should just go by the more appropriate moniker of mara.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
That’s a lof of ifs and whens. Killed by the army on purpose?! Has NM turned into The Sun?
What if he just happened to be in the line of fire? Like the soldier who died with him? Apparently killed my a grenade?
Please, one would expect more substantiated stuff from this site, but hey you guys are looking for angry traffic. And get it.