Arnaud Dubus provides an insightful and revealing interview, showing that a skilled journalist can bring wider and focused attention to an academic study. It is clear, however, that Claudio Sopranzetti himself is a gifted and articulate communicator as well as a scholar and researcher.
Motorcycle taxis in Klong Toey were used effectively in the early ’90s, I believe, in promoting condom use for both pregnancy prevention and education regarding the prevention of HIV-AIDS.
Motorcycle taxis have also been known to extend occasional free rides to people in need, and to extend ‘pay later’ transportation to passengers without ready cash.
R.N.England #1 re :
“In Australia we are lucky that the British Constitution (to which ours was inextricably linked) has evolved over many centuries from a feudal one to an essentially republican one. The early stages were violent, but last blood spilt in this process was in 1746!”.
Since Australia did not begin being settled until 1778, you must be talking about Britain.
If so – then what about the blood spilt during 19th Century Chartism, Irish rebellions, etc. ?
It seems to me modern Thailand has a lot in common with these.
The Abhisit government must be rather scared of such civic activities–the Rajaprasong street sign as a symbol for democratic protests (and quite impressive judging from the pictures on the Prachthai board). Remarkably, the publicly quoted reasons for the extension of the emergency decree all concerned perfectly legitimate political activities, both in BKK and upcountry. Given this basis, the government acually will have to stick to emergency rule indefinitely.
At the same time, it has been pursuing a policy of indoctrination-cum-denunciation right down to every village countrywide (example: the monarchy protection volunteers). I wonder whether anybody can provide concrete information about how these things work at the provincial/district/tambon/village level.
One thing that this debate shows is that using an anti-democratic egomaniac such as Thaksin as a tool to pursue democratic ends against the aphichon (privileged establishment) has its intellectual pitfalls.
Human beings are herd animals, they unconsciously recognise the security benefit of being a part of the group they belong to.
Human beings seek approval from alpha males and alpha females in the process of ensuring their continued place in the safety umbrella of the group.
Thais are no different but they are less well educated (by design), and hence less aware of what happens in the world outside Thailand. Therefore if someone says that the way to prove they are good Thais is to love the King and Queen, then they will do it for the reasons above, mindlessly and without any independent thought process.
The adulation and reverence that they feel is not due to any merit on the part of the objects of their affection, (which have been shown repeatedly to be hollow) but due entirely to the propaganda to which they are exposed from their births to their deaths. By design.
Its all very sad really, nothing at all to be impressed with, but something to be pitied and dismantled – as soon as possible. It’s way past time Thais grew up and faced the real world.
All the people who voted against my previous post obviously don’t know anything about Thailand.
David Dunne, you try to win your argument with logic. This is a mistake.
Cicero said advice is judged by results, not intentions. Thaksin’s intention was to advise everyone he was the best. He even bought others intentions to tell more people he was the best. Killed some worthless drug addicts too for the right intentions. Really he is a drug addict. His drug is power. The result was everyone important decided to kick him out. Now he’s unimportant. When will you ANU Emus realise this? Obviously none of you have been to Chulalongkorn.
Thanks for the effusion and the comment positioning it as a snapshot in the evolution of Thai societal governance.
Seems to me Thai society evolved from feudalism towards constitutional monarchy in the 1930’s, regressed in the 1960’s, showed signs of progression in the 1990’s and this century but has regressed again.
Most of the early progresses and regresses seem to have been driven by military and other non-royal figures manipulating the royal baramee for its own purposes.
Perhaps from the 1990’s, perhaps only in the last 2 to 5 years, it seems that royal family members themselves have become active in covertly and in certain cases overtly driving the regression.
Unfortunately for the royal institution this has caused a lessening of respect by the Thai people for individual members of the family and the institution itself and resulted in increasing panicked reactions by royalist supporters which arguable has accelerated the decline in respect.
The military has positioned itself as “Protector of the Monarchy” which till now has accrued them legitimacy above any of the “transient” and largely nominated governments and hence at some level approval of their dismantling of governments by armed and more recently judicial coups.
Now that the monarchy has lost some of its mystique will the military be able to re-spin their legitimacy and hold onto their political control and when will this unravel?
It was too hot, he was complaining. Those men were nice enough to carry him to the air-conditioned van. He was thanking them from the windows. Don’t know what all the fuss is about. He couldn’t have afforded to buy Louis Vuitton anyway.
A 16 years old boy will be send to juvenile detention center for gather with another 2 (not 5) of his older friends. Oh boy what happened to this country.
One point I would like to make re: bias is that pretty much every single charge laid against Thaksin is well-documented, discussed and very much out in the open.
In effect, we, and everyone else, knows that side of the story. Were the same voices calling this document “biased” also railing against the one-sided interpretations of Thaksin’s rule that the Thai elite wish to dominate the discourse?
This document, quite rightly, seems like an attempt to address that balance.
It also seems to attempt to shine a light on the darker corners of Thai democracy (Prem et al) who’ve done more to stymie democracy than 100 Thaksins could do in 100 lifetimes.
The section on Prem is highly illuminating – fought with the Japanese, big friend of every nasty corrupt fascist dictator since the war and he’s never been elected to office. Note also his perceived involvement in having Thaksin removed in 2006 as well.
I’m no Thaksin eulogiser but I can certainly work who is the biggest enemy of democracy in Thailand.
[…] Thai Divisions Shift to Voting Booth ASIA SENTINEL – Corruption Cases Could Sink Thai Govt NEW MANDALA – The Politics of Motorcycle Taxis BANGKOK POST – Isaan Revolt Reflects Puea Thai Leadership Problem NYT – In Thai […]
I agreed that Thaksin might not be the champion of democracy when he took the office and I believed that he’s still not now. Thaksin is, after all, the product of the Thai’s establishment and elitism. However, in the future he might change, I felt that he start to slowly. Hey if he doesn’t then he can go the way Pridi and Marshall Por did, stay quiet and be forgotten from the people mind the man has more than enough to live a good life for the rest of his life but Thaksin decided to do differently.
Anyhow, its pointless to talk about a man’s intention, what’s more important is to talk about how the whole system is moving in what direction. A man can die but the ideology never die with him.
“The one weakness is that it ignores the probably crucial role of a certain lady and a certain gentleman,”
Although there is no direct accusation in the report on the role of the palace, I think there are two examples of accusation by using the words of first Anupong and then of the King. Anupongs quote is on page 34 where it says-
“At the meeting, Anupong is reported to have cautioned the participants
that he spoke for “a man whose message could not be refuted.”
Then on page 20 it quotes the Kings message to the constitutional court judges, which left them in no doubt they should annul the results of the 2006 election, also it mentions the Queens visit to the PAD activist funeral. Although none of this is new or controversial to us and it could of gone a lot further, this would still be a very sensitive document if translated into Thai and distributed. Sensitive enough I think, to open up some new LM charges against Thaksin and others involved.
‘The red shirts are not fighting for Thaksin they are fighting for themselves.’
I am neither pro red or yellow or even a Thaksin supporter.
But yet this line from the report rings true of the many disenfranchised people who trully have no political voice in Thailands’ self styled democracy.
That the Amnat or Establishment have controlled so many previous governments wether directly or indirectly shows that the democratic institution itself has been a fraud.
The establishment have only ever used it as a front so as to continue their reign over the economy.
To them it makes ‘good business sense’ so why should it change.
Reconcilliation can only come about through the ‘truth’.
Ordinary Thai people have been kept subserviant to a small percentage of the population due to there supposed ignorance and or stupidity as the PAD like to continually claim.
I find this statement made against those with little wealth highly arrogrant and belittle all they have done and are doing for the kingdom at a base level. They feed the nation after all.
Where is the respect for those that provide.?
The establishment have had the means to provide equal opportunity through their support and influence of past and present governments but they have choosen only to serve themselves. They have used the Royal Instituiton to shield themselves from the obvious double standards they wish to continue. They show disrespect to the King when they pledge an oath to be honest when elected to government and go forth as they have done for decades and do the opposite.
The rural masses are not communists/terrorists as the establishment wishes to brand them. they are Thai citizens who must have a democratic right to determine their own future.
The establishment needs to be called upon to put forward their case and give due reason why they alone must rule over the people. Thailand is no longer a feudal state although when one reads the history of Democratic Thailand one might as well assume feudalism and the reign of the establishment is still what only exists!
the biggest fraud against democracy is to appoint MPs and have non-elected people form a government
the next biggest fraud is not accepting the result of an election
you whine about Thaksin but the real problem is that noone else in Thailand (still!) has decided to mount a serious challenge to capture votes in an election
until that happens Thaksin remains the only party leader since Pridi, Phibun et al in the 1930 -40s that seriously worked within the democratic system
everyone else has committed fraud against the Thai people
you dont like what Thaksin did? then who is your alternate democratic leader?
Same, same. Thaksin is probably inside Amsterdam. Such is the nature of dirty, dirty politics. I wonder how big Thaksin’s ‘account’ is now. Will it be big enough for Amsterdam to keep up a sustained effort? It will have to be very sustained because for Thaksin to get off it will take a very long time. Sabai, sabai.
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Interview with Claudio Sopranzetti: The politics of motorcycle taxis
Arnaud Dubus provides an insightful and revealing interview, showing that a skilled journalist can bring wider and focused attention to an academic study. It is clear, however, that Claudio Sopranzetti himself is a gifted and articulate communicator as well as a scholar and researcher.
Motorcycle taxis in Klong Toey were used effectively in the early ’90s, I believe, in promoting condom use for both pregnancy prevention and education regarding the prevention of HIV-AIDS.
Motorcycle taxis have also been known to extend occasional free rides to people in need, and to extend ‘pay later’ transportation to passengers without ready cash.
Reconciliation, Thai style
FYI: This coming Sunday the 25th, Khun Sombat will move the venue from Ratchaprasong to Lumbini Park for some aerobics exercise.
This means more headaches for Abhisit and imagine what the late Seh Daeng would say. He once said he would only teach “throw the grenades” posture.
From the archives: Silcock with reference to Queen Sirikit
R.N.England #1 re :
“In Australia we are lucky that the British Constitution (to which ours was inextricably linked) has evolved over many centuries from a feudal one to an essentially republican one. The early stages were violent, but last blood spilt in this process was in 1746!”.
Since Australia did not begin being settled until 1778, you must be talking about Britain.
If so – then what about the blood spilt during 19th Century Chartism, Irish rebellions, etc. ?
It seems to me modern Thailand has a lot in common with these.
“The Bangkok Massacres: A call for accountability”
Srithanonchai
Thaksin is many things.
But le’ts not forget Phibun, Sarit, Thanom, Kraivixien, Suchinda, Prem and now, of course, Abhisit.
Compared to this rabble of unelected murderers, crooks and fascists, Thaksin does pretty well.
Reconciliation, Thai style
The Abhisit government must be rather scared of such civic activities–the Rajaprasong street sign as a symbol for democratic protests (and quite impressive judging from the pictures on the Prachthai board). Remarkably, the publicly quoted reasons for the extension of the emergency decree all concerned perfectly legitimate political activities, both in BKK and upcountry. Given this basis, the government acually will have to stick to emergency rule indefinitely.
At the same time, it has been pursuing a policy of indoctrination-cum-denunciation right down to every village countrywide (example: the monarchy protection volunteers). I wonder whether anybody can provide concrete information about how these things work at the provincial/district/tambon/village level.
“The Bangkok Massacres: A call for accountability”
One thing that this debate shows is that using an anti-democratic egomaniac such as Thaksin as a tool to pursue democratic ends against the aphichon (privileged establishment) has its intellectual pitfalls.
Reconciliation, Thai style
TX Tarrin! U R a pal.
From the archives: Silcock with reference to Queen Sirikit
Human beings are herd animals, they unconsciously recognise the security benefit of being a part of the group they belong to.
Human beings seek approval from alpha males and alpha females in the process of ensuring their continued place in the safety umbrella of the group.
Thais are no different but they are less well educated (by design), and hence less aware of what happens in the world outside Thailand. Therefore if someone says that the way to prove they are good Thais is to love the King and Queen, then they will do it for the reasons above, mindlessly and without any independent thought process.
The adulation and reverence that they feel is not due to any merit on the part of the objects of their affection, (which have been shown repeatedly to be hollow) but due entirely to the propaganda to which they are exposed from their births to their deaths. By design.
Its all very sad really, nothing at all to be impressed with, but something to be pitied and dismantled – as soon as possible. It’s way past time Thais grew up and faced the real world.
“The Bangkok Massacres: A call for accountability”
All the people who voted against my previous post obviously don’t know anything about Thailand.
David Dunne, you try to win your argument with logic. This is a mistake.
Cicero said advice is judged by results, not intentions. Thaksin’s intention was to advise everyone he was the best. He even bought others intentions to tell more people he was the best. Killed some worthless drug addicts too for the right intentions. Really he is a drug addict. His drug is power. The result was everyone important decided to kick him out. Now he’s unimportant. When will you ANU Emus realise this? Obviously none of you have been to Chulalongkorn.
From the archives: Silcock with reference to Queen Sirikit
Thanks for the effusion and the comment positioning it as a snapshot in the evolution of Thai societal governance.
Seems to me Thai society evolved from feudalism towards constitutional monarchy in the 1930’s, regressed in the 1960’s, showed signs of progression in the 1990’s and this century but has regressed again.
Most of the early progresses and regresses seem to have been driven by military and other non-royal figures manipulating the royal baramee for its own purposes.
Perhaps from the 1990’s, perhaps only in the last 2 to 5 years, it seems that royal family members themselves have become active in covertly and in certain cases overtly driving the regression.
Unfortunately for the royal institution this has caused a lessening of respect by the Thai people for individual members of the family and the institution itself and resulted in increasing panicked reactions by royalist supporters which arguable has accelerated the decline in respect.
The military has positioned itself as “Protector of the Monarchy” which till now has accrued them legitimacy above any of the “transient” and largely nominated governments and hence at some level approval of their dismantling of governments by armed and more recently judicial coups.
Now that the monarchy has lost some of its mystique will the military be able to re-spin their legitimacy and hold onto their political control and when will this unravel?
Reconciliation, Thai style
It was too hot, he was complaining. Those men were nice enough to carry him to the air-conditioned van. He was thanking them from the windows. Don’t know what all the fuss is about. He couldn’t have afforded to buy Louis Vuitton anyway.
Freedom of expression in Thailand
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1279874111&grpid=01&catid=00
A 16 years old boy will be send to juvenile detention center for gather with another 2 (not 5) of his older friends. Oh boy what happened to this country.
“The Bangkok Massacres: A call for accountability”
One point I would like to make re: bias is that pretty much every single charge laid against Thaksin is well-documented, discussed and very much out in the open.
In effect, we, and everyone else, knows that side of the story. Were the same voices calling this document “biased” also railing against the one-sided interpretations of Thaksin’s rule that the Thai elite wish to dominate the discourse?
This document, quite rightly, seems like an attempt to address that balance.
It also seems to attempt to shine a light on the darker corners of Thai democracy (Prem et al) who’ve done more to stymie democracy than 100 Thaksins could do in 100 lifetimes.
The section on Prem is highly illuminating – fought with the Japanese, big friend of every nasty corrupt fascist dictator since the war and he’s never been elected to office. Note also his perceived involvement in having Thaksin removed in 2006 as well.
I’m no Thaksin eulogiser but I can certainly work who is the biggest enemy of democracy in Thailand.
“The Bangkok Massacres: A call for accountability”
No, I think that is deniable.
Interview with Claudio Sopranzetti: The politics of motorcycle taxis
[…] Thai Divisions Shift to Voting Booth ASIA SENTINEL – Corruption Cases Could Sink Thai Govt NEW MANDALA – The Politics of Motorcycle Taxis BANGKOK POST – Isaan Revolt Reflects Puea Thai Leadership Problem NYT – In Thai […]
“The Bangkok Massacres: A call for accountability”
goo_stewart -23
I agreed that Thaksin might not be the champion of democracy when he took the office and I believed that he’s still not now. Thaksin is, after all, the product of the Thai’s establishment and elitism. However, in the future he might change, I felt that he start to slowly. Hey if he doesn’t then he can go the way Pridi and Marshall Por did, stay quiet and be forgotten from the people mind the man has more than enough to live a good life for the rest of his life but Thaksin decided to do differently.
Anyhow, its pointless to talk about a man’s intention, what’s more important is to talk about how the whole system is moving in what direction. A man can die but the ideology never die with him.
“The Bangkok Massacres: A call for accountability”
@Anonymouse
“The one weakness is that it ignores the probably crucial role of a certain lady and a certain gentleman,”
Although there is no direct accusation in the report on the role of the palace, I think there are two examples of accusation by using the words of first Anupong and then of the King. Anupongs quote is on page 34 where it says-
“At the meeting, Anupong is reported to have cautioned the participants
that he spoke for “a man whose message could not be refuted.”
Then on page 20 it quotes the Kings message to the constitutional court judges, which left them in no doubt they should annul the results of the 2006 election, also it mentions the Queens visit to the PAD activist funeral. Although none of this is new or controversial to us and it could of gone a lot further, this would still be a very sensitive document if translated into Thai and distributed. Sensitive enough I think, to open up some new LM charges against Thaksin and others involved.
“The Bangkok Massacres: A call for accountability”
‘The red shirts are not fighting for Thaksin they are fighting for themselves.’
I am neither pro red or yellow or even a Thaksin supporter.
But yet this line from the report rings true of the many disenfranchised people who trully have no political voice in Thailands’ self styled democracy.
That the Amnat or Establishment have controlled so many previous governments wether directly or indirectly shows that the democratic institution itself has been a fraud.
The establishment have only ever used it as a front so as to continue their reign over the economy.
To them it makes ‘good business sense’ so why should it change.
Reconcilliation can only come about through the ‘truth’.
Ordinary Thai people have been kept subserviant to a small percentage of the population due to there supposed ignorance and or stupidity as the PAD like to continually claim.
I find this statement made against those with little wealth highly arrogrant and belittle all they have done and are doing for the kingdom at a base level. They feed the nation after all.
Where is the respect for those that provide.?
The establishment have had the means to provide equal opportunity through their support and influence of past and present governments but they have choosen only to serve themselves. They have used the Royal Instituiton to shield themselves from the obvious double standards they wish to continue. They show disrespect to the King when they pledge an oath to be honest when elected to government and go forth as they have done for decades and do the opposite.
The rural masses are not communists/terrorists as the establishment wishes to brand them. they are Thai citizens who must have a democratic right to determine their own future.
The establishment needs to be called upon to put forward their case and give due reason why they alone must rule over the people. Thailand is no longer a feudal state although when one reads the history of Democratic Thailand one might as well assume feudalism and the reign of the establishment is still what only exists!
“The Bangkok Massacres: A call for accountability”
goo_stewart #19
the biggest fraud against democracy is to appoint MPs and have non-elected people form a government
the next biggest fraud is not accepting the result of an election
you whine about Thaksin but the real problem is that noone else in Thailand (still!) has decided to mount a serious challenge to capture votes in an election
until that happens Thaksin remains the only party leader since Pridi, Phibun et al in the 1930 -40s that seriously worked within the democratic system
everyone else has committed fraud against the Thai people
you dont like what Thaksin did? then who is your alternate democratic leader?
“The Bangkok Massacres: A call for accountability”
Same, same. Thaksin is probably inside Amsterdam. Such is the nature of dirty, dirty politics. I wonder how big Thaksin’s ‘account’ is now. Will it be big enough for Amsterdam to keep up a sustained effort? It will have to be very sustained because for Thaksin to get off it will take a very long time. Sabai, sabai.