Garfield:
It’s actually simple, as my three year-old grandson would say.
Elders point to the icon dejure and say, “We are Thai and this is what we respect.”
They add, “If you don’t, you are very bad and people will say you are not Thai. you don’t want that to happen, do you?”
Then they repeat this process in homes, schools, villages, government offices, places of worship and entertainment.
Then they legislate it all so it can be enforced.
Then they say, “If you don’t like it, go somewhere else.”
This, I am afraid, is that unique Thainess that foreigners can not understand.
I will repeat an anecdote I recited earlier about Suthichai Yoon’s interview with a former American ambassador to Thailand who gave the rundown, over several minutes and detailed explanation, of what American policy toward Thailand was. Suthichai did the typical Thai response and asked, “But, how do you expect me to explain this to the Thai people?”The ambassador, I believe it was Hecklinger, replied, “Just the way I explained it to you.”
For anyone who still misses the point, in Thailand understanding is most often synonymous with agreement. And it works both ways in the unique Thai mindset. If you do not agree, you do not understand. If you agree, you understand. The fact that this faulty logic is totally faulty does not register with the “Thai mindset” that pretends that Thainess is defined by blind obedience and compulsion of others to behave likewise.
Nganadeeleg, Somsak et al: I thoroughly agree with the proposition that nobody should be charged with such a silly law. However, I can’t help laughing at this situation, in which someone who has habitually used the monarchy in such dishonest ways, possibly with the intention of creating a myth which is enhancing divisions in Thai society which are not primarily about republicanism, has now shot himself in the foot. The fact that his charge is based on his quoting a speech by Kh. Da, who is now imprisoned for making that speech, & that he did so in a condemnatory manner, further demonstrates the silly lengths to which this anachronistic law is being applied.
yeah, I’ve heard this “only thais can understand what is thai” argument a gazillion times. Can you please explain to us the mechanisms of this so perticuliar culture and mental pattern?
is it something you learn at school? at what age do you start, how long is the learning process, what pedagogy is used? who writes the “thainess” manuals?
or is it genetic? do “pure thais” have this understanding ingrained in their DNA? is there any scientific research on this that isolated the ‘thai gene’? If you have children with, say, a lao or chinese immigrant, is this gene lost? so how will your children understand you?
All the history books I have read locate the creation of the artificially built ‘thainess’ concept in the 30s, concept imposed by force and coercion to the mosaic of ethnies that populate thailand.
So, for my point of vue, ‘thainess’ is a concept created by men, therfore, it is possible to discuss it.
In fact, the judiciary is a “power clique” in its own right.
Yes, and this is where people fail to see the connection between our judiciary and politic. Throughout 2006 until 2010, I have lost track of how many times the Thai’s jurisdiction has broken the rule of laws. Moreover, some Thais seems to misunderstand the word rule of law as meaning to follow the law which is extremely dangerous misconception.
I agree with Thomas Hoy (his real name!) that there are substantial differences between the red shirts and the yellow shirts despite the fact that these differences cannot be understood in a left/right dicotomy or even a lower class vs. upper/middle class dicotomy.
There is certainly a lot to digest in this article that is valuable, however, particularly as it deals with how Thai culture (both inside and outside the capsule, or as I would like to think, the “little frog in the coconut shell” from Thai folklore) reacts and relates to worldwide media attention, the evolution of PR and media consumption, and most importantly the repression of media outlets that attempt to give voice to the “tradiationally neglected and marginalized”. The most cogent quotation I found is the following:
“Indeed, of the various media that I believe have the true potential to serve as bridges between Thailand and the world, Midnight University, Fah Diew Kan, Prachatai and the now-defunct student magazine Question Mark have all been either banned or blocked, while their editors have been arrested and have faced criminal charges for their activities as media producers.”
This is my biggest gripe with the current Abhisit led government: that there are now over 100,000 blocked websites and many of my favourite media sources remain unavailable to me! Sadly, we live in a culture, “Amazing Thailand”, that is basically authoritarian in nature. Its primary instinct is first and foremost to be punishing to non-conforming, “non-Thai,” and dangerous foreign elements. I see it everyday in the authoritarian behavior I witness from the abjectly submissive campus security guards, who I strongly suspect would turn on me in an instant if ordered to do so by a higher authority. Frank Adorno did a great deal of research on the “F” authoritarian personality style in the 1950s, and much of it applies to Thailand.
Don’t get me wrong. There are a lot of positive elements to Thai culture and I witness it everyday. There is an innate warmth and friendliness that can’t be denied, and certainly a playfulness and love of adventure not found elsewhere. As in other Asian societies, there is a strong loyalty to the family, and to a lesser extent to the company, boss and coworkers, but there is something of a “devil take the hindmost” attitude toward strangers, outsiders, and foreigners.
Back to the topic of media relations, I think it is worth noting that NBT radio announced yesterday that a day of instruction would soon be set aside to encourage Thai students to speak “proper Thai” and to avoid using English slang and English expressions that have crept into the language. As something of a student of sociolinguistics, I find this attitude incongruous with the reality that there are at least four major dialects of Thai spoken here, not to mention Khmer, Mon, Burmese and at least a half dozen other minor languages, so who is to say what exactly is proper Thai? I know the answer to that question, but it is a form of cultural imperialism directly linked to the red/yellow and prai/amart divide.
David Brown #11 :
I’m not sure it is strictly correct to say “the truly startling thing about Indonesia is that their military seems to be under control of their elected government”.
Rather it seems the civilian government leaves military matters (including budgets) to the military, and the military leaves civilian matters to the civilians (though of course current President SBY is a former general). I.e. Indonesia now has a modus operandi rather like Thailand’s in the period after May’92 till Thaksin became PM.
Firstly, I can’t thank the author enough for her wonderful article.
Concerning the red’s attitude towards gay/lesbian, I don’t think they deliberately intimidate nor discriminate gays in general. On the contrary, the target is limited to certain gays only( you know who ). The incident involving the gay parade in Chiangmai last year was rather a matter of competing in media’s attention than sex discrimination in general sense.
The same went to the yellow shirt. They also ridiculed their rivals ( of course, the red shirts) the same way the reds did.
I don’t think both of them have any idea nor interest in the realm of sexual discrimination at all. And also do agree with the author that their microcosm confine strictly to their political agendas, especially the PAD, their ONLY agenda was and is Thaksin. In this term, the reds seem to be more aware of the political problem in term of structural flaws, not just a bunch of ammarts. Or do I read them wrong?
Sondhi Limthongkul, Somsak Kosaisuk and Suriyasai Katasila are, of course, three of the nine PAD leaders who have been charged with illegal assembly and inciting unrest in connection with the six month occupation and trashing of Government House during 2008.
To my knowledge the Court decision on whether to proceed with the indictments on these charges has now been postponed on 10 occasions since 18 November 2008. The last postponement was on 16 June this year, and the next date set for the Court decision is 4 August.
The explanations given for the delays seem to have become increasingly frivolous. For example, one of the reasons given for the deferment of the Court decision in February was that the PAD lawyers claimed the defendants were too busy with their work in other provinces. The more usual argument is that the police still have more witnesses to interview.
Many NM readers will already know all this, but I believe that it bears repeating – over and over again until the process is completed. As I watch the current retributive behaviour of Abhisit in relation to the UDD leaders, the more convinced I become that in Thailand the rule of law is actually, as others have suggested, political control by law, and until issues like the indictment of the PAD leaders are seen to be dealt with fairly, any idea of reconciliation is ludicrous.
Excellent essay. It’s a good point about Filipino activists protesting about events outside of the Philipines. No, you can’t imagine the Reds or Yellows doing that, or having the kind of ideological thinking that would make them want to.
And:
“This family remains on its own, quite isolated from global discourses, and in the end its members all agree that their worst enemies come from outside,…”
Although as a piece of optimism Jana does add, regarding Prachathai etc.
“Interestingly, none of the editors, with the exception of some Midnight University professors, have been educated in the West.”
So people inisde the capsule can think outside of it. Some hope there for the future.
“Contrary to popular opinion, I believe that the red-shirts and the yellow-shirts have a great deal in common, far more than any differences that might ostensibly set them apart”.
Facing LM charges is yet another area of common ground !
Why is such an utterly reasonable position as yours (and mine) so difficult to implement in Thailand? A number of proposals have been made in order to cut the issue back to size, but then the Abhisit government takes over and declares as its first and foremost policy the protection of the monarchy, and develops a number of policy measures to implement this central goal…
“in order for there to be rule of law the power cliques need to be placed under the rule of law, not above” >> Does this include the judiciary (Tulakarnphiwat is still fresh in memory…)? If even the judiciary cannot get around to folllowing the “rule of law” but still sticks to the “rule by law,” what hope can we have for the “power cliques?” In fact, the judiciary is a “power clique” in its own right.
“power brokers” and “other influential political figures” >> Does this refer to Newin, Anupong, Prem, Prayudh, Suthep, Korn, Abhisit, Anand, Prawase, Surayudh, and Phaiboon?
I want to discuss more about this but for our own safety I think I will stop here, one reminder is that, if he really doesn’t want LM law, then why still keep Da Torpedo in jail and give pardon to Suwicha?
I dont think we will ever agree on the protest crackdown, but do we agree that in order for there to be rule of law the power cliques need to be placed under the rule of law, not above?
Don’t think there wll be a general election until all the major contracts in the 10th Malaysian plan have been signed. Money makes the world go round and this is particularly true in Malaysia.
BTW – the “no contest” rule was started by Mahathir and has been in force ever since, so the statement that Najib was not elected is only technically correct – not so in UMNO politics
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Thai media culture in the eyes of a foreigner
Garfield:
It’s actually simple, as my three year-old grandson would say.
Elders point to the icon dejure and say, “We are Thai and this is what we respect.”
They add, “If you don’t, you are very bad and people will say you are not Thai. you don’t want that to happen, do you?”
Then they repeat this process in homes, schools, villages, government offices, places of worship and entertainment.
Then they legislate it all so it can be enforced.
Then they say, “If you don’t like it, go somewhere else.”
This, I am afraid, is that unique Thainess that foreigners can not understand.
I will repeat an anecdote I recited earlier about Suthichai Yoon’s interview with a former American ambassador to Thailand who gave the rundown, over several minutes and detailed explanation, of what American policy toward Thailand was. Suthichai did the typical Thai response and asked, “But, how do you expect me to explain this to the Thai people?”The ambassador, I believe it was Hecklinger, replied, “Just the way I explained it to you.”
For anyone who still misses the point, in Thailand understanding is most often synonymous with agreement. And it works both ways in the unique Thai mindset. If you do not agree, you do not understand. If you agree, you understand. The fact that this faulty logic is totally faulty does not register with the “Thai mindset” that pretends that Thainess is defined by blind obedience and compulsion of others to behave likewise.
New politics, new leader
Nganadeeleg, Somsak et al: I thoroughly agree with the proposition that nobody should be charged with such a silly law. However, I can’t help laughing at this situation, in which someone who has habitually used the monarchy in such dishonest ways, possibly with the intention of creating a myth which is enhancing divisions in Thai society which are not primarily about republicanism, has now shot himself in the foot. The fact that his charge is based on his quoting a speech by Kh. Da, who is now imprisoned for making that speech, & that he did so in a condemnatory manner, further demonstrates the silly lengths to which this anachronistic law is being applied.
New politics, new leader
Quote from PM Abhisit’s policy announcement made on 30 December 2008:
р╕лр╕Щр╕╢р╣Ир╕З р╕Ыр╕Бр╕Ыр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╣Бр╕ер╕░р╣Ар╕Чр╕┤р╕Фр╕Чр╕╣р╕Щр╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕йр╕▒р╕Хр╕гр╕┤р╕вр╣Мр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕бр╕╡р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕бр╕▒р╣Ир╕Щр╕Др╕Зр╣Гр╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕ир╕╣р╕Щр╕вр╣Мр╕гр╕зр╕бр╕Ир╕┤р╕Хр╣Гр╕Ир╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕гр╕▒р╕Бр╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕▒р╕Др╕Др╕╡р╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Др╕Щр╣Гр╕Щр╕Кр╕▓р╕Хр╕┤ р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╣Ар╕Чр╕┤р╕Фр╕Чр╕╣р╕Щр╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕йр╕▒р╕Хр╕гр╕┤р╕вр╣Мр╣Др╕зр╣Йр╣Ар╕лр╕Щр╕╖р╕нр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Вр╕▒р╕Фр╣Бр╕вр╣Йр╕Зр╕Чр╕╕р╕Бр╕гр╕╣р╕Ыр╣Бр╕Ър╕Ъ р╕Юр╕гр╣Йр╕нр╕бр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕Фр╕│р╣Ар╕Щр╕┤р╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Чр╕╕р╕Бр╕зр╕┤р╕Цр╕╡р╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╕Ир╕▒р╕Зр╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Ыр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╕бр╕┤р╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕бр╕╡р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕ер╣Ир╕зр╕Зр╕ер╕░р╣Ар╕бр╕┤р╕Фр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕гр╕бр╣Ар╕Фр╕Кр╕▓р╕Щр╕╕р╕ар╕▓р╕Ю
Thai media culture in the eyes of a foreigner
to #1:
yeah, I’ve heard this “only thais can understand what is thai” argument a gazillion times. Can you please explain to us the mechanisms of this so perticuliar culture and mental pattern?
is it something you learn at school? at what age do you start, how long is the learning process, what pedagogy is used? who writes the “thainess” manuals?
or is it genetic? do “pure thais” have this understanding ingrained in their DNA? is there any scientific research on this that isolated the ‘thai gene’? If you have children with, say, a lao or chinese immigrant, is this gene lost? so how will your children understand you?
All the history books I have read locate the creation of the artificially built ‘thainess’ concept in the 30s, concept imposed by force and coercion to the mosaic of ethnies that populate thailand.
So, for my point of vue, ‘thainess’ is a concept created by men, therfore, it is possible to discuss it.
Thailand in Crisis: Episode 6
Srithanonchai – 24
In fact, the judiciary is a “power clique” in its own right.
Yes, and this is where people fail to see the connection between our judiciary and politic. Throughout 2006 until 2010, I have lost track of how many times the Thai’s jurisdiction has broken the rule of laws. Moreover, some Thais seems to misunderstand the word rule of law as meaning to follow the law which is extremely dangerous misconception.
Thai media culture in the eyes of a foreigner
I agree with Thomas Hoy (his real name!) that there are substantial differences between the red shirts and the yellow shirts despite the fact that these differences cannot be understood in a left/right dicotomy or even a lower class vs. upper/middle class dicotomy.
There is certainly a lot to digest in this article that is valuable, however, particularly as it deals with how Thai culture (both inside and outside the capsule, or as I would like to think, the “little frog in the coconut shell” from Thai folklore) reacts and relates to worldwide media attention, the evolution of PR and media consumption, and most importantly the repression of media outlets that attempt to give voice to the “tradiationally neglected and marginalized”. The most cogent quotation I found is the following:
“Indeed, of the various media that I believe have the true potential to serve as bridges between Thailand and the world, Midnight University, Fah Diew Kan, Prachatai and the now-defunct student magazine Question Mark have all been either banned or blocked, while their editors have been arrested and have faced criminal charges for their activities as media producers.”
This is my biggest gripe with the current Abhisit led government: that there are now over 100,000 blocked websites and many of my favourite media sources remain unavailable to me! Sadly, we live in a culture, “Amazing Thailand”, that is basically authoritarian in nature. Its primary instinct is first and foremost to be punishing to non-conforming, “non-Thai,” and dangerous foreign elements. I see it everyday in the authoritarian behavior I witness from the abjectly submissive campus security guards, who I strongly suspect would turn on me in an instant if ordered to do so by a higher authority. Frank Adorno did a great deal of research on the “F” authoritarian personality style in the 1950s, and much of it applies to Thailand.
Don’t get me wrong. There are a lot of positive elements to Thai culture and I witness it everyday. There is an innate warmth and friendliness that can’t be denied, and certainly a playfulness and love of adventure not found elsewhere. As in other Asian societies, there is a strong loyalty to the family, and to a lesser extent to the company, boss and coworkers, but there is something of a “devil take the hindmost” attitude toward strangers, outsiders, and foreigners.
Back to the topic of media relations, I think it is worth noting that NBT radio announced yesterday that a day of instruction would soon be set aside to encourage Thai students to speak “proper Thai” and to avoid using English slang and English expressions that have crept into the language. As something of a student of sociolinguistics, I find this attitude incongruous with the reality that there are at least four major dialects of Thai spoken here, not to mention Khmer, Mon, Burmese and at least a half dozen other minor languages, so who is to say what exactly is proper Thai? I know the answer to that question, but it is a form of cultural imperialism directly linked to the red/yellow and prai/amart divide.
Thailand: A Battle Ground for the New Cold War?
David Brown #11 :
I’m not sure it is strictly correct to say “the truly startling thing about Indonesia is that their military seems to be under control of their elected government”.
Rather it seems the civilian government leaves military matters (including budgets) to the military, and the military leaves civilian matters to the civilians (though of course current President SBY is a former general). I.e. Indonesia now has a modus operandi rather like Thailand’s in the period after May’92 till Thaksin became PM.
Thai media culture in the eyes of a foreigner
Firstly, I can’t thank the author enough for her wonderful article.
Concerning the red’s attitude towards gay/lesbian, I don’t think they deliberately intimidate nor discriminate gays in general. On the contrary, the target is limited to certain gays only( you know who ). The incident involving the gay parade in Chiangmai last year was rather a matter of competing in media’s attention than sex discrimination in general sense.
The same went to the yellow shirt. They also ridiculed their rivals ( of course, the red shirts) the same way the reds did.
I don’t think both of them have any idea nor interest in the realm of sexual discrimination at all. And also do agree with the author that their microcosm confine strictly to their political agendas, especially the PAD, their ONLY agenda was and is Thaksin. In this term, the reds seem to be more aware of the political problem in term of structural flaws, not just a bunch of ammarts. Or do I read them wrong?
New politics, new leader
Sondhi Limthongkul, Somsak Kosaisuk and Suriyasai Katasila are, of course, three of the nine PAD leaders who have been charged with illegal assembly and inciting unrest in connection with the six month occupation and trashing of Government House during 2008.
To my knowledge the Court decision on whether to proceed with the indictments on these charges has now been postponed on 10 occasions since 18 November 2008. The last postponement was on 16 June this year, and the next date set for the Court decision is 4 August.
The explanations given for the delays seem to have become increasingly frivolous. For example, one of the reasons given for the deferment of the Court decision in February was that the PAD lawyers claimed the defendants were too busy with their work in other provinces. The more usual argument is that the police still have more witnesses to interview.
Many NM readers will already know all this, but I believe that it bears repeating – over and over again until the process is completed. As I watch the current retributive behaviour of Abhisit in relation to the UDD leaders, the more convinced I become that in Thailand the rule of law is actually, as others have suggested, political control by law, and until issues like the indictment of the PAD leaders are seen to be dealt with fairly, any idea of reconciliation is ludicrous.
Thai media culture in the eyes of a foreigner
Excellent essay. It’s a good point about Filipino activists protesting about events outside of the Philipines. No, you can’t imagine the Reds or Yellows doing that, or having the kind of ideological thinking that would make them want to.
And:
“This family remains on its own, quite isolated from global discourses, and in the end its members all agree that their worst enemies come from outside,…”
Although as a piece of optimism Jana does add, regarding Prachathai etc.
“Interestingly, none of the editors, with the exception of some Midnight University professors, have been educated in the West.”
So people inisde the capsule can think outside of it. Some hope there for the future.
New politics, new leader
Tarrin # 15 :
perhaps part of the reason is because Suwicha apologised and Da Torpedo has not ?
Thai media culture in the eyes of a foreigner
“Contrary to popular opinion, I believe that the red-shirts and the yellow-shirts have a great deal in common, far more than any differences that might ostensibly set them apart”.
Facing LM charges is yet another area of common ground !
New politics, new leader
Nganadeeleg/Somsak:
Why is such an utterly reasonable position as yours (and mine) so difficult to implement in Thailand? A number of proposals have been made in order to cut the issue back to size, but then the Abhisit government takes over and declares as its first and foremost policy the protection of the monarchy, and develops a number of policy measures to implement this central goal…
Thailand in Crisis: Episode 6
Colin II:
“in order for there to be rule of law the power cliques need to be placed under the rule of law, not above” >> Does this include the judiciary (Tulakarnphiwat is still fresh in memory…)? If even the judiciary cannot get around to folllowing the “rule of law” but still sticks to the “rule by law,” what hope can we have for the “power cliques?” In fact, the judiciary is a “power clique” in its own right.
Thailand in Crisis: Episode 6
Colin:
“power brokers” and “other influential political figures” >> Does this refer to Newin, Anupong, Prem, Prayudh, Suthep, Korn, Abhisit, Anand, Prawase, Surayudh, and Phaiboon?
New politics, new leader
FGA -13
I want to discuss more about this but for our own safety I think I will stop here, one reminder is that, if he really doesn’t want LM law, then why still keep Da Torpedo in jail and give pardon to Suwicha?
Thailand in Crisis: Episode 6
but do we agree that in order for there to be rule of law the power cliques need to be placed under the rule of law, not above?
Strongly agree with your statement.
Thanong on King Bhumibol
There is now a parody of Thanong on Twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/notThanongK
Thailand in Crisis: Episode 6
Tarrin,
Violence begets violence…
I dont think we will ever agree on the protest crackdown, but do we agree that in order for there to be rule of law the power cliques need to be placed under the rule of law, not above?
The 13th General Election in Malaysia
Don’t think there wll be a general election until all the major contracts in the 10th Malaysian plan have been signed. Money makes the world go round and this is particularly true in Malaysia.
BTW – the “no contest” rule was started by Mahathir and has been in force ever since, so the statement that Najib was not elected is only technically correct – not so in UMNO politics