Pretty funny how the photo of the elephant that Myanmar News Agency distributed had been photoshopped to take out the ropes around the elephant’s neck and leg. And local journals are only allowed to publish the doctored photo!
I want to read more this article. I clicked further details here and this is what I get in response. I repeated a few times and it was still the same message.
“An access to such information has been temporarily ceased
due to the order of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES)
under the authority of emergency decree B.E 2548 (A.D. 2005).”
@Incredible
What about this story is black magic? you are free to believe whatever you want but don’t make arrests based on that.
Also if you have issues to explain your believes, to the west, east, north or south, it might be because there is not much to back it up.
I took decentralisation of the police force to mean bringing them under the control of the provincial authorities rather than locally elected politicians.
Nganadeeleg, yellows didn’t run in the elections, Democrats did. People who paid for PAD might not have contributed to Democrat election campaigns at all.
TRT in its heyday had full support from CP, only some bankers might have not paid them. Thaksin had very close ties with the richest families in the country anyway.
I don’t know if CPB ever made any political contributions, so why bring it here?
Steve, I know the 258 mil was paid to someone, but for now we don’t know if it was an illegal contribution, and even if it was, it doesn’t mean TRT had less money going past the books, too.
There is no way to know how much money each party has really had. There is a common knowledge that TRT had more when it was in power.
The opposite idea is something invented six years later by Tarrin.
double Standards is a great jobs for Abhisit government..
I wondered whats the different between Sombat and Dr.Tul ( the leader of The multicolors groups) who has been shut the airport with the real Fascist terrorists PAD…
If they going to Jails Sombat they should take Dr.Tul in the jails as well and if tie the red ribbon is wrong..
I’m afraid maybe next month or as long as Abhisit Government still working for thailand… maybe we are all Thai can not wearing anything about The red color anymore..only Yellow, Pink, and Blue that being important and been treating as a human..!!
Ralph K #18: “Is rule of law only for some and not for others.” Are you kidding? The answer to that is glaringly, depressingly obvious.
Before it is possible to reform the police force, there has to be a clean government, with no brothel-keepers, mafioso and initiators of expensive & unnecessary schemes that only exist in order to line the pockets of the ‘unusually rich’ in its cabinet. Do you see that as a possibility in the near future?
If that situation ever arrives, there are models from other countries that can be followed. Of course the judiciary & justice department would need to be cleaned up, re-trained & re-organised first. Don’t hold your breath!
It is interesting to me that at my office, a lot of the Thai staff who were vehemently anti-red during the protests, through its heights, and even cheered the army at the very end for “finally” moving the protesters out said the following to me (in Thai, I’ve translated):
“Thailand is sad because even after 80 people died, not even one side has said ‘sorry’ for what has happened. This is hopeless. Bangkok people and Abhisit care more about Central World burning than the dead people. The government was not fully wrong nor fully right, even the Red Shirt leaders should give an apology, but they only care about Thaksin.”
Now, I’m not judging the statement. I smiled at her and said, “This is Thailand chai mai?”
She said “Sia daai ching ching.” (very sad indeed)
Well before we discuss about India and Thailand in regard to non-violence principle, I want to ask you some fundamental questions.
First is, what is the different between governing system in Thailand now and India then?
Second is, What is the goal of Indian then and Thailand?
Third is, who is the power holder in India and Thailand?
I hope you give some thought about my questions.
Peter Warr said the Red Shirts are “not explicitly non-violent” like Gandhi was explicitly non-violent
You have to admit that the protest was peaceful until the authority attempt to crash the protesters, much like April last year. There was no bus burning until the day the military attempt to crash the protest.
Same goes for this year, there were not a single attempt in burning down the department store until the military start cracking down the protest.
People wouldn’t just wait to be kill indefinitely, I bet you already saw those clips showing soldiers with high-power rifles and weapon of war, firing indiscriminately. History has teach us again and again that it just not going to be non-violence without international pressure and the willingness of the power holder.
Now if we just talk about one point of the whole aspect then its very hard to grasp why non-violence might not work with Thailand, we have to discuss about the structural aspect, then it will be clearer.
This comes down to the fundamental problem of the Thai State. In a civilised state the rule of law prevails: the police are ruled by, and enforce the laws. In Thailand men rule, in a pyramid with the King at the top. Conflict resolution depends on the status of the people involved. He or she who is further up the pyramid wins. That is the moral law of the Thai state. The police are in no-man’s-land. Where few take the law seriously, the police (and their rivals the Military) enforce the will of their various bosses, who are trying to work their way up the pyramid. Thaksin, one of their own, shot up the status pyramid at such a rate that he became an alternative King in the eyes of many people, probably the majority.
For the police to be anything more than hired thugs loyal to a leader, the rule of law is necessary. Ever since Pridi, the Thai Monarchy has seen the rule of law as a threat to its power. This rotten state of affairs is fundamental to absolute monarchies, and explains the fact that the rule of law has languished in Thailand. In civilised monarchies like those of Europe, the monarch obeys and supports the laws made by the people’s representatives. They are republics in all but name. If Thailand evolves in that direction, the police will become part of the solution, instead of being part of the problem.
All kudos to Australia. I am not a monarchist, but think Australia will probably get it about right under any system its citizens opt for. You could say I’m a mild anti-monarchist who is willing to live under a constitutional monarchy if it shows a high degree of professionalism in its actions. QE2, in her own inimitable fashion (rather starchy), has weathered a few storms. It is possible that the UK monarchy will eventually become an irrelevance, but any transition will likely succeed because of her mindfulness that not all her subjects were of one mind.
I’m still wondering why DB brought up Australia in this thread. I was indicating that I thought it was irrelevant to a discussion on a country in which there has only ever been the myth of a democratic system.
If Jakkrapob were capable of telling me that democracy has never really existed here, he would be far more credible. Instead, he glosses over the excesses of the government in which he ‘served’. If I hadn’t lived through that government myself, I might be excused for letting him off the hook. The excesses of the current regime are very obvious, but we won’t learn any lessons here if we try to portray the previous regime as the paradise it never was. Rather, we should see the Thaksin regime as having precipitated this crisis through its failure to be anything other than a vehicle for its PM’s own personal ambitions.
To come back to Australia some. I indicated that I thought QE2 had worked in a way that I thought was mindful of the possibility of future sea change. I suppose you could argue that the local institution has tried to do the same. The problem is, of course, that the succession here looks decidedly wobbly because of the obvious complete unsuitability of one person. Many have realised for decades that this was a real problem. Others seem far more interested in exploiting that weakness. But then again, such factions have long used that institution as a means to defend their own ruthless empire-building.
“Former Matchimathipataya leader Prachai Leophairatana has confirmed he donated 250 million baht to the Democrat party but insisted it did not break any laws”
That behavior made dangerous for thai style culture.Most of Thais believe in black magic and curse unfortune to rivals.It’s hard to explain to thewest culture,how thai people feel about that.
Remember an episode in Yasothon a few years back when a son of a local businessman walked into the police station with his buddies and severely beaten a policeman there, in full view of superintendent and others.
Let’s place the police legally under the power of local politicians…. NOT!
When teachers argue against decentralization, saying that local bodies are incompetent to run education, I think they’ve got a good point.
Even more so with running the police force.
I hope there are solutions to it, but just imagine canvassing for votes for the police commissioner’s post, for example.
I’m not sure if the Royal family is the key to patronage networks.
Historically, afaik, the provinces were run by their own bosses with their own power pyramids and Bangkok appointed civil servants were not really messing with them.
Even now, Interior Ministry appointed governors are not at the top of power spread.
They just burned provincial halls in Isan, for example, and no one even suggested it was a local rebellion against patronage.
Am I the only one who believe that any reform, in the form of decentralisation, would bring abject disaster and sow the seeds for more corruption within the Royal Thai Police? Having a decentralised force, answerable to a local politician, will be like opening Pandora’s box for the local police chief. Probably in cohorts with said elected representative, the police chief for each region will establish their own fiefdoms, akin to the local power brokers which plague the Thai political system and make the politics of the country all about money. I could see the rule of law being even more subverted if this occurred. More centralised power is required, but power centralised in an honest (utopia?) law enforcement body with full checks and balances. This is, however, a pipe dream.
There are major issues with reforming the police, not least with the people of Thailand’s will. The real problem is that corruption is so ingrained that it cannot be removed by just reform of one institution. There needs to be a change in the mindset of the people who live in Thailand (not just Thai folks, all the people who live in the country). This will only occur through many decades of education, will-power and a more egalitarian society. Whilst there is an opportunity for corruption, it will exist in Thailand. The people need to change their mindset. Educate.
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An auspicious gift for the Senior General
Pretty funny how the photo of the elephant that Myanmar News Agency distributed had been photoshopped to take out the ropes around the elephant’s neck and leg. And local journals are only allowed to publish the doctored photo!
Tie a red ribbon for Sombat
I want to read more this article. I clicked further details here and this is what I get in response. I repeated a few times and it was still the same message.
“An access to such information has been temporarily ceased
due to the order of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES)
under the authority of emergency decree B.E 2548 (A.D. 2005).”
This is a dark age of Thailand in 2010!!
Tie a red ribbon for Sombat
@Incredible
What about this story is black magic? you are free to believe whatever you want but don’t make arrests based on that.
Also if you have issues to explain your believes, to the west, east, north or south, it might be because there is not much to back it up.
Thai institutions: Police
Goo Stewart – 21
I took decentralisation of the police force to mean bringing them under the control of the provincial authorities rather than locally elected politicians.
Thailand in crisis: Episode 4
Nganadeeleg, yellows didn’t run in the elections, Democrats did. People who paid for PAD might not have contributed to Democrat election campaigns at all.
TRT in its heyday had full support from CP, only some bankers might have not paid them. Thaksin had very close ties with the richest families in the country anyway.
I don’t know if CPB ever made any political contributions, so why bring it here?
Steve, I know the 258 mil was paid to someone, but for now we don’t know if it was an illegal contribution, and even if it was, it doesn’t mean TRT had less money going past the books, too.
There is no way to know how much money each party has really had. There is a common knowledge that TRT had more when it was in power.
The opposite idea is something invented six years later by Tarrin.
Tie a red ribbon for Sombat
double Standards is a great jobs for Abhisit government..
I wondered whats the different between Sombat and Dr.Tul ( the leader of The multicolors groups) who has been shut the airport with the real Fascist terrorists PAD…
If they going to Jails Sombat they should take Dr.Tul in the jails as well and if tie the red ribbon is wrong..
I’m afraid maybe next month or as long as Abhisit Government still working for thailand… maybe we are all Thai can not wearing anything about The red color anymore..only Yellow, Pink, and Blue that being important and been treating as a human..!!
Please Help us!
Thai institutions: Police
Ralph K #18: “Is rule of law only for some and not for others.” Are you kidding? The answer to that is glaringly, depressingly obvious.
Before it is possible to reform the police force, there has to be a clean government, with no brothel-keepers, mafioso and initiators of expensive & unnecessary schemes that only exist in order to line the pockets of the ‘unusually rich’ in its cabinet. Do you see that as a possibility in the near future?
If that situation ever arrives, there are models from other countries that can be followed. Of course the judiciary & justice department would need to be cleaned up, re-trained & re-organised first. Don’t hold your breath!
“Opposing the atrocious Thailand Reform Plan”
It is interesting to me that at my office, a lot of the Thai staff who were vehemently anti-red during the protests, through its heights, and even cheered the army at the very end for “finally” moving the protesters out said the following to me (in Thai, I’ve translated):
“Thailand is sad because even after 80 people died, not even one side has said ‘sorry’ for what has happened. This is hopeless. Bangkok people and Abhisit care more about Central World burning than the dead people. The government was not fully wrong nor fully right, even the Red Shirt leaders should give an apology, but they only care about Thaksin.”
Now, I’m not judging the statement. I smiled at her and said, “This is Thailand chai mai?”
She said “Sia daai ching ching.” (very sad indeed)
Thailand in Crisis – Episode 5
Ben – 15
Well before we discuss about India and Thailand in regard to non-violence principle, I want to ask you some fundamental questions.
First is, what is the different between governing system in Thailand now and India then?
Second is, What is the goal of Indian then and Thailand?
Third is, who is the power holder in India and Thailand?
I hope you give some thought about my questions.
Peter Warr said the Red Shirts are “not explicitly non-violent” like Gandhi was explicitly non-violent
You have to admit that the protest was peaceful until the authority attempt to crash the protesters, much like April last year. There was no bus burning until the day the military attempt to crash the protest.
Same goes for this year, there were not a single attempt in burning down the department store until the military start cracking down the protest.
People wouldn’t just wait to be kill indefinitely, I bet you already saw those clips showing soldiers with high-power rifles and weapon of war, firing indiscriminately. History has teach us again and again that it just not going to be non-violence without international pressure and the willingness of the power holder.
Now if we just talk about one point of the whole aspect then its very hard to grasp why non-violence might not work with Thailand, we have to discuss about the structural aspect, then it will be clearer.
Thai institutions: Police
This comes down to the fundamental problem of the Thai State. In a civilised state the rule of law prevails: the police are ruled by, and enforce the laws. In Thailand men rule, in a pyramid with the King at the top. Conflict resolution depends on the status of the people involved. He or she who is further up the pyramid wins. That is the moral law of the Thai state. The police are in no-man’s-land. Where few take the law seriously, the police (and their rivals the Military) enforce the will of their various bosses, who are trying to work their way up the pyramid. Thaksin, one of their own, shot up the status pyramid at such a rate that he became an alternative King in the eyes of many people, probably the majority.
For the police to be anything more than hired thugs loyal to a leader, the rule of law is necessary. Ever since Pridi, the Thai Monarchy has seen the rule of law as a threat to its power. This rotten state of affairs is fundamental to absolute monarchies, and explains the fact that the rule of law has languished in Thailand. In civilised monarchies like those of Europe, the monarch obeys and supports the laws made by the people’s representatives. They are republics in all but name. If Thailand evolves in that direction, the police will become part of the solution, instead of being part of the problem.
Jakrapob on the state within the state
All kudos to Australia. I am not a monarchist, but think Australia will probably get it about right under any system its citizens opt for. You could say I’m a mild anti-monarchist who is willing to live under a constitutional monarchy if it shows a high degree of professionalism in its actions. QE2, in her own inimitable fashion (rather starchy), has weathered a few storms. It is possible that the UK monarchy will eventually become an irrelevance, but any transition will likely succeed because of her mindfulness that not all her subjects were of one mind.
I’m still wondering why DB brought up Australia in this thread. I was indicating that I thought it was irrelevant to a discussion on a country in which there has only ever been the myth of a democratic system.
If Jakkrapob were capable of telling me that democracy has never really existed here, he would be far more credible. Instead, he glosses over the excesses of the government in which he ‘served’. If I hadn’t lived through that government myself, I might be excused for letting him off the hook. The excesses of the current regime are very obvious, but we won’t learn any lessons here if we try to portray the previous regime as the paradise it never was. Rather, we should see the Thaksin regime as having precipitated this crisis through its failure to be anything other than a vehicle for its PM’s own personal ambitions.
To come back to Australia some. I indicated that I thought QE2 had worked in a way that I thought was mindful of the possibility of future sea change. I suppose you could argue that the local institution has tried to do the same. The problem is, of course, that the succession here looks decidedly wobbly because of the obvious complete unsuitability of one person. Many have realised for decades that this was a real problem. Others seem far more interested in exploiting that weakness. But then again, such factions have long used that institution as a means to defend their own ruthless empire-building.
Thailand in crisis: Episode 4
c60
“I don’t know how real 258 mil is….. “
“Former Matchimathipataya leader Prachai Leophairatana has confirmed he donated 250 million baht to the Democrat party but insisted it did not break any laws”
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/11530/prachai-denies-democrat-donation-illegal
Tie a red ribbon for Sombat
That behavior made dangerous for thai style culture.Most of Thais believe in black magic and curse unfortune to rivals.It’s hard to explain to thewest culture,how thai people feel about that.
Thai institutions: Police
Remember an episode in Yasothon a few years back when a son of a local businessman walked into the police station with his buddies and severely beaten a policeman there, in full view of superintendent and others.
Let’s place the police legally under the power of local politicians…. NOT!
When teachers argue against decentralization, saying that local bodies are incompetent to run education, I think they’ve got a good point.
Even more so with running the police force.
I hope there are solutions to it, but just imagine canvassing for votes for the police commissioner’s post, for example.
Jakrapob on the state within the state
I’m not sure if the Royal family is the key to patronage networks.
Historically, afaik, the provinces were run by their own bosses with their own power pyramids and Bangkok appointed civil servants were not really messing with them.
Even now, Interior Ministry appointed governors are not at the top of power spread.
They just burned provincial halls in Isan, for example, and no one even suggested it was a local rebellion against patronage.
Thai institutions: Police
Am I the only one who believe that any reform, in the form of decentralisation, would bring abject disaster and sow the seeds for more corruption within the Royal Thai Police? Having a decentralised force, answerable to a local politician, will be like opening Pandora’s box for the local police chief. Probably in cohorts with said elected representative, the police chief for each region will establish their own fiefdoms, akin to the local power brokers which plague the Thai political system and make the politics of the country all about money. I could see the rule of law being even more subverted if this occurred. More centralised power is required, but power centralised in an honest (utopia?) law enforcement body with full checks and balances. This is, however, a pipe dream.
There are major issues with reforming the police, not least with the people of Thailand’s will. The real problem is that corruption is so ingrained that it cannot be removed by just reform of one institution. There needs to be a change in the mindset of the people who live in Thailand (not just Thai folks, all the people who live in the country). This will only occur through many decades of education, will-power and a more egalitarian society. Whilst there is an opportunity for corruption, it will exist in Thailand. The people need to change their mindset. Educate.
An auspicious gift for the Senior General
So how did those elephants work out for Khin Nyunt?
Suwicha Thakor still locked up
Suwicha is not the first victim, there were many other like him, Veera Musikapong is another example, I’m disgusted with this regime.
New Thai street signs
I couldn’t believe that this is the country I grew up in, what a sad state of oppression.
Sex, love and vote-buying
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