“While roughly pulling at the man, he screamed that he should be dead, and because he isn’t they have to take him to the hospital, and that he should die. He walked off“.
Not sure how many commentators are really expats and whether any is a Thai, but adding another expat opinion…
Money sure does make a difference. Of course charm and all that other stuff matter, but I have come to the opinion that security is number one in most Thai-expat unions. Security is provided b y money. Personality, charm, astrological sign and so on do contribute, but the main attraction is being safe and secure, or being able to take care of yourself and your family. Anyone who dismisses this reality based on a “destroy the stereotype” ethic should take a second look at these ‘happy couples.’
When considering the significance of funded protests, I think that it is important to appreciate that people often have multiple motives for their actions. Just because some redshirts were paid does not mean that those redshirts did not also have additional (perhaps even more dominant) motives for protesting.
Comparisons with the PAD demonstrations can also be rather misleading. Most of those demonstrators were already based in Bangkok and did not have to suffer the same expenses as many of the redshirts did caused by travel and longterm residence in a city far from their homes.
The buying of votes 100% cannot guarantee that person will vote based on confidential voting, but, they will want future hand outs and this will make sure the payments keep coming. Why do the richer, educated Thais not get offered money for votes?
Continuous payment? for once every 4 years? I unless the money is in a region of 1 M then there’s not a single incentive to sell the vote.
To this question, I say no, vote buying should not be a legal factor in any election. Cheap money should not be undermined as an ineffective tool to bait the poor, uneducated folk who may see a quick “buck” for an easy task, even if the task is not carried out.
Reading your statement here, I’m really wondering how many “educated folk” will vote for Abhisit for his one time 2,000 baht hand out policy, do you considered that as vote buying???
Maybe we should get our Red Shirts out and take over the city CBD, get some M79 grenade launchers, turn all security cameras away and cause a ruckus…or maybe we should take over all major airports, government house and hijack TV stations?
I think the Yellow shirt is the better candidate here, they can actually got away with that, the red wasn’t able to avoid jail time so far so I guess yellow is the better pick for you. Furthermore, cracking down on protest in not human violation, cracking down on protest with war weapon is.
Well, I don’t think anyone could literacy “buy” or “sold” the country. I doubt that he would return to power in Thailand as a lot of people still hating him and possibly form another protest. How much is Thailand worth? According to calculation, sum of 5 richest peoples in the world’s worth could buy entire Thailand. (With price alone)
By the way, Montenegro refuse to handles Thaksin to Thailand in any circumstances. If he need to be jailed, he will be jailed in Montenegro, if he need to be executed, he will be executed in Montenegro also. I believe red shirts will be less angry if Thaksin had been executed in Montenegro than in Thailand.
So let’s compare farangs with paid for girlfriends with vote buying in the countryside. Even better let’s use it as an excuse for paid for demonstrators. Fine.
Now where can fit in peasants selling their daughters into prostitution as they used to do (still do?) in the north. Could we compare that to selling your vote?
So the red shirt sympathisers are going explain the whole UDD payment structure as market forces, just like neo-liberal economists.
Still stuck with explaining why it’s unique to Thailand that a legitimate pro-democracy movement would need to pay it’s supporters to attend a rally.
Myself, I’m off to buy a Thai girlfriend. Wonder if Thaksin will give me some money? Hear it’s about 1,000 thousand Baht a night. Mind you he was paying those Klong Toey motorcyclists up to 4,000 Baht day.
O lord won’t you buy me a night on the town
I’m counting on you lord, please don’t let me down
Prove that you love me and buy the next round
O lord won’t you buy me a night on the town
*Thanks Janis, far better than that Pink Floyd stuff.
I totally agree that money plays only a part in a relationship, the problem is that in marriage it is completely natural but has no place in politics, certainly not in the same way.
Otherwise the analogy works perfectly – charisma, capabilities, responsibility – it all matters, and the money element is always present.
Just like in marriage, there are occasional fights over the money in politics, too, when politicians don’t get what they were promised, or when they leave for a more capable/charismatic/better paying patron.
Oh, and even ten years ago Thaksin wasn’t concerned with buying individual votes, he was buying vote delivering MPs, wholesale. The number of [allegedly] bought MPs run in hundreds before 2001 elections.
Andrew Walker: “…another …stereotype that is much more dangerous for Thailand’s future”
If people knew the facts, there would be no need of “stereotypes” or rumors at all.
So your observation is really besides the point.
We don’t know for sure if the bomb outside Pheu Thai headquarters yesterday was for real or instead a Reichstag political ruse to extend emergency rule. We don’t know for sure whether Seh Daeng was actually a terrorist sponsoring bomb attacks but he sure went to great lengths to build up a “Soldier of Fortune” persona for himself. We don’t know for sure what role the police played in the 2003 extrajudicial killings but we do know that Thaksin made a lot of speeches that goaded people on to kill, kill, kill….etc etc…
If there was transparency in politics and people actually knew what was going on, there would be no need for stereotypes at all.
The trouble with you, Andrew Walker “PhD”, is that your blog does not make the situation any better. Stereotypes are exactly what your blog deals with and produces. You are supposedly an academic, but your blog does not stick to making well-reasoned arguments from cited sources. Maybe, if you actually were involved in the education of the poor Isan and Northern people you claim to speak for, then perhaps you would realize how important it is to teach people to do exactly this, stick to the facts in their arguments, and also to demand the facts from others, and possibly change their minds based on those facts. Otherwise, the cycle of stereotype and rumour and purely emotional response, rather than rational response based on the evidence, may never end.
The problem isn’t gross simplification it’s vilification – people determined form an out-group to justify their in-group and to hell with the facts or flawed logic.
These open debates are often very messy because they combine not only a conflict of opinions (perceptions to what the facts are) but a deeper conflict of objectives (understanding vs lobbying) and in cross-cultural discussions it is further confused by conflict of terms and values (thai vs western) and the projection of values onto players that don’t share them.
In my opinion there is more than enough lobbying for one side or another going on in the thai press and western and thai chat boards. Judging events by western values is largely irrelevant and projection of those values even more so. But because of all this lobby activity is generating a huge amount of propaganda what there is a lack of is understanding.
But a test would be when in Thailand, or where else in the world, has a legitimate pro-democracy movement paid its supporters to protest for weeks on end with the money coming from, in the main, one man and his family?
I think my question has been up long enough that we can see there will no real answers. The closest we come is the PAD who possible paid some of JB’s friends to protest at the airport. Problem is it would be hard to claim PAD as a legitimate pro-democracy movement. It certainly had the leader of, and others from, the 92 pro-democracy movement, (as has the UDD), but with people like Sonthi in it, the pro-democracy claim would be hard to justify. The PAD was really an anti-Thaksin movement as, many of us think anyway, the UDD is a pro-Thaksin movement.
Recent leaks about the frozen bank accounts and the information on red shirt recruiting in Klong Toey has taken away the option of pro-red shirt posters denying that payments was taking place, although we did get something new from Kaiser in calling these payments a hygiene factor;-)
The answer for those who support the red shirts seems to be, so what if there are paid demonstrators, it doesn’t change the UDD from being a pro-democracy movement. I think we can see this tact in Andrew’s post and it’s the one that Professor Somsak has been saying for a while.
Problem is that this would make the red shirts a unique movement as we have no indications that any other legitimate pro-democracy movement anywhere else in the world has ever paid people to protest. Of course it is possibly a unique situation and they really are legitimate, but I suspect you wouldn’t get very good odds if a bookmaker allowed bets on it.
So, if we don’t go for the legitimate pro-democracy movement we are left with it being a pro-Thaksin movement, just the other side of the coin from the PAD. That’s fine, but can we drop all the class war rhetoric and argue over the pros and cons of Thaksin if that is the case.
(We do have the example Haym Salomon, the American Revolutionary War and the payment to Washington’s revolutionary army. Myself, I can’t quite make the connection between this and a modern pro-democracy movement.)
Oh, I see you are trying to communicate by choosing an example that you think some posters can easily relate to.
“We are told by commentators that impoverished and morally vulnerable voters focus on only one thing when they encounter politicians: money. Not policy, charisma or skill, just hard cold cash.
Those who aspire to lead must naturally take more than their share of the blame. So it seems apt here to mainly examine the role of movers and shakers in this stereotype. Others can be forgiven for just trying to survive. In that case, let’s confine ourselves to:
What policy? What charisma? What skill?
As the hard cash issue can never be proven here, we won’t bother with the last point on the elite side of the stereotype.
In the almost total absence of any means to prosecute power abusers, it is inevitable that arguments will go round & round in soap opera-like circles. So, yes. Stereotypes are a very poor alternative for hard facts. I’m just wondering how you imagine those hard facts are ever going to emerge.
“does having a party platform, running on that platform, then when you win ”
Yes, HR, it counts, but that is not the only thing Thaksin been busy with to win the elections.
One big part is making people believe in that narrative.
In your own post you say Thaksin gave people BTS. Well, it was actually opened BEFORE his first elections, and during his years in power he hasn’t added a single station to it.
Now it is regularly included in “great achievements of Thaksin” epic.
It is a bit more complicated. The Nation and affiliated Thai language outlets are not a single entity, but there are many factions, dominating are the rabidly anti-Red and pro-government people in their offices. Nevertheless, there is a minority of journalists who still tries to report factually, regardless of political preferences, and despite strong pressure to follow the mainstream. The two who helped me there came from such a faction.
There are a small number of Thai journalists from many different newspapers who work very hard and are determined to follow up on the incidents, and continue to investigate them. They do know each other and help each other out, across affiliations to their respective newspapers, and often against the strong resistance of their colleagues and editors.
These journalists have my highest respect, their work is outstanding, their investigating capabilities are superb, and i personally have learned a lot from them. I very much enjoy working alongside with them.
There is one very nice aspect with Thai journalists in general – there is much collaboration going on. Colleagues always help each other out, compare notes, freely help with contacts and share information.
Unfortunately these qualities are often not reflected in the resulting articles, but this is more the problem of editorial office policies and political pressure than with the abilities of the working journos on the ground.
I miss understood your post, I guess sometimes it happens on forums, no probs. I still ticked your last post in approval.
But, it still does not convince. There are still questions…
The buying of votes 100% cannot guarantee that person will vote based on confidential voting, but, they will want future hand outs and this will make sure the payments keep coming. Why do the richer, educated Thais not get offered money for votes?
If voters always took money and voted for the smaller vendor, wouldn’t that mean less payment for themselves, effectively eliminating the better financially backed candidate.
In all honesty, vote buying is rampant and a major factor in Thai elections. We can guess why it happens and how much effect it really has, but at the end of the day, should it be condoned regardless if we are of the persuasion that it has little or no effect whatsoever?
To this question, I say no, vote buying should not be a legal factor in any election. Cheap money should not be undermined as an ineffective tool to bait the poor, uneducated folk who may see a quick “buck” for an easy task, even if the task is not carried out. And in this situation we cannot judge any majority elected government based on such a wild card electoral tactic. Again I put it out there, ignoring the fact that it is rampant is believing that it is not only legal but morally ok.
H.R,
Sorry, but I think if you had actually researched the “improvements” that Thaksin introduced you will find they were not only NOT his ideas, but not even from the TRT. So what you are left with is just a plain old megalomaniac, with nothing but a big “above the law” ego and no respect for intellectual property.
He won his first election by landslide almost 10 years ago, his most recent election had no participation from the other major parties and it was close. His popularity is obviously on the wane, maybe if he ran today he’d lose by landslide…you never know.
Oh, one more thing, our dear PM Kevin Rudd, KRudd or Dr Spin has been tapped on the shoulder…I voted for him and so did the majority of Australia. Maybe we should get our Red Shirts out and take over the city CBD, get some M79 grenade launchers, turn all security cameras away and cause a ruckus…or maybe we should take over all major airports, government house and hijack TV stations??? If the army cracks down then its a HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION…
4 years of soap opera politics, but you are still only telling us what the political poker players and their goon squads think. Reconciliation is worthless when it is only the reconciliation of criminals.
Both the red shirts and yellow shirts are eventually going to have to realise that they are leading this country inexorably towards a brutal civil war.
Both shirts have proved to the rest of us that they are not ready for democracy. And certainly it hasn’t existed here at any time in the past. Such ‘chao muang’ factions are nothing new, and have always spent more time posturing (and terrorising) than actually delivering any significant benefit. It is thus very important that the majority do not allow themselves to be manipulated by either set of color-coded succession terrorists. Their apologists are evident everywhere in this forum.
What a gem! I don’t suppose there are online versions (yet?). The only digitized versions of old Burmese newspapers available online that I’ve come across so far are seven issues of the Hanthawaddy Weeky Review from 1903 available on the Myanmar E-Library. Are other NM readers aware of anything else similar available online?
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Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
“While roughly pulling at the man, he screamed that he should be dead, and because he isn’t they have to take him to the hospital, and that he should die. He walked off“.
The Nation story seems to have left out that bit.
Sex, love and vote-buying
Not sure how many commentators are really expats and whether any is a Thai, but adding another expat opinion…
Money sure does make a difference. Of course charm and all that other stuff matter, but I have come to the opinion that security is number one in most Thai-expat unions. Security is provided b y money. Personality, charm, astrological sign and so on do contribute, but the main attraction is being safe and secure, or being able to take care of yourself and your family. Anyone who dismisses this reality based on a “destroy the stereotype” ethic should take a second look at these ‘happy couples.’
Money – don’t give me that do goody good bullshit
When considering the significance of funded protests, I think that it is important to appreciate that people often have multiple motives for their actions. Just because some redshirts were paid does not mean that those redshirts did not also have additional (perhaps even more dominant) motives for protesting.
This point has been emphasised well in the following extremely useful overview of the Thai political crisis: http://poppyfieldjournal.blogspot.com/p/thoughts-on-thailands-turmoil-by-james.html
Comparisons with the PAD demonstrations can also be rather misleading. Most of those demonstrators were already based in Bangkok and did not have to suffer the same expenses as many of the redshirts did caused by travel and longterm residence in a city far from their homes.
Thailand in crisis: Episode 4
Colin – 45
The buying of votes 100% cannot guarantee that person will vote based on confidential voting, but, they will want future hand outs and this will make sure the payments keep coming. Why do the richer, educated Thais not get offered money for votes?
Continuous payment? for once every 4 years? I unless the money is in a region of 1 M then there’s not a single incentive to sell the vote.
To this question, I say no, vote buying should not be a legal factor in any election. Cheap money should not be undermined as an ineffective tool to bait the poor, uneducated folk who may see a quick “buck” for an easy task, even if the task is not carried out.
Reading your statement here, I’m really wondering how many “educated folk” will vote for Abhisit for his one time 2,000 baht hand out policy, do you considered that as vote buying???
Maybe we should get our Red Shirts out and take over the city CBD, get some M79 grenade launchers, turn all security cameras away and cause a ruckus…or maybe we should take over all major airports, government house and hijack TV stations?
I think the Yellow shirt is the better candidate here, they can actually got away with that, the red wasn’t able to avoid jail time so far so I guess yellow is the better pick for you. Furthermore, cracking down on protest in not human violation, cracking down on protest with war weapon is.
Thaksin’s greatest reform ever!
LesAbbey – 25
Well, I don’t think anyone could literacy “buy” or “sold” the country. I doubt that he would return to power in Thailand as a lot of people still hating him and possibly form another protest. How much is Thailand worth? According to calculation, sum of 5 richest peoples in the world’s worth could buy entire Thailand. (With price alone)
By the way, Montenegro refuse to handles Thaksin to Thailand in any circumstances. If he need to be jailed, he will be jailed in Montenegro, if he need to be executed, he will be executed in Montenegro also. I believe red shirts will be less angry if Thaksin had been executed in Montenegro than in Thailand.
Translation of interview with Sae Daeng
H.R. – 27
I think wealth distribution is a secondary target for Thailand, now we have to fix this broken governing system first. The pie will have to wait.
Sex, love and vote-buying
Ho-ho Andrew, smells a bit like desperation here.
So let’s compare farangs with paid for girlfriends with vote buying in the countryside. Even better let’s use it as an excuse for paid for demonstrators. Fine.
Now where can fit in peasants selling their daughters into prostitution as they used to do (still do?) in the north. Could we compare that to selling your vote?
So the red shirt sympathisers are going explain the whole UDD payment structure as market forces, just like neo-liberal economists.
Still stuck with explaining why it’s unique to Thailand that a legitimate pro-democracy movement would need to pay it’s supporters to attend a rally.
Myself, I’m off to buy a Thai girlfriend. Wonder if Thaksin will give me some money? Hear it’s about 1,000 thousand Baht a night. Mind you he was paying those Klong Toey motorcyclists up to 4,000 Baht day.
O lord won’t you buy me a night on the town
I’m counting on you lord, please don’t let me down
Prove that you love me and buy the next round
O lord won’t you buy me a night on the town
*Thanks Janis, far better than that Pink Floyd stuff.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
I’m watching Nick’s interview in Kon-Chut-luek channel, I have to say I don’t really like the host.
Sex, love and vote-buying
I totally agree that money plays only a part in a relationship, the problem is that in marriage it is completely natural but has no place in politics, certainly not in the same way.
Otherwise the analogy works perfectly – charisma, capabilities, responsibility – it all matters, and the money element is always present.
Just like in marriage, there are occasional fights over the money in politics, too, when politicians don’t get what they were promised, or when they leave for a more capable/charismatic/better paying patron.
Oh, and even ten years ago Thaksin wasn’t concerned with buying individual votes, he was buying vote delivering MPs, wholesale. The number of [allegedly] bought MPs run in hundreds before 2001 elections.
Sex, love and vote-buying
Andrew Walker: “…another …stereotype that is much more dangerous for Thailand’s future”
If people knew the facts, there would be no need of “stereotypes” or rumors at all.
So your observation is really besides the point.
We don’t know for sure if the bomb outside Pheu Thai headquarters yesterday was for real or instead a Reichstag political ruse to extend emergency rule. We don’t know for sure whether Seh Daeng was actually a terrorist sponsoring bomb attacks but he sure went to great lengths to build up a “Soldier of Fortune” persona for himself. We don’t know for sure what role the police played in the 2003 extrajudicial killings but we do know that Thaksin made a lot of speeches that goaded people on to kill, kill, kill….etc etc…
If there was transparency in politics and people actually knew what was going on, there would be no need for stereotypes at all.
The trouble with you, Andrew Walker “PhD”, is that your blog does not make the situation any better. Stereotypes are exactly what your blog deals with and produces. You are supposedly an academic, but your blog does not stick to making well-reasoned arguments from cited sources. Maybe, if you actually were involved in the education of the poor Isan and Northern people you claim to speak for, then perhaps you would realize how important it is to teach people to do exactly this, stick to the facts in their arguments, and also to demand the facts from others, and possibly change their minds based on those facts. Otherwise, the cycle of stereotype and rumour and purely emotional response, rather than rational response based on the evidence, may never end.
Sex, love and vote-buying
The problem isn’t gross simplification it’s vilification – people determined form an out-group to justify their in-group and to hell with the facts or flawed logic.
These open debates are often very messy because they combine not only a conflict of opinions (perceptions to what the facts are) but a deeper conflict of objectives (understanding vs lobbying) and in cross-cultural discussions it is further confused by conflict of terms and values (thai vs western) and the projection of values onto players that don’t share them.
In my opinion there is more than enough lobbying for one side or another going on in the thai press and western and thai chat boards. Judging events by western values is largely irrelevant and projection of those values even more so. But because of all this lobby activity is generating a huge amount of propaganda what there is a lack of is understanding.
Money – don’t give me that do goody good bullshit
But a test would be when in Thailand, or where else in the world, has a legitimate pro-democracy movement paid its supporters to protest for weeks on end with the money coming from, in the main, one man and his family?
I think my question has been up long enough that we can see there will no real answers. The closest we come is the PAD who possible paid some of JB’s friends to protest at the airport. Problem is it would be hard to claim PAD as a legitimate pro-democracy movement. It certainly had the leader of, and others from, the 92 pro-democracy movement, (as has the UDD), but with people like Sonthi in it, the pro-democracy claim would be hard to justify. The PAD was really an anti-Thaksin movement as, many of us think anyway, the UDD is a pro-Thaksin movement.
Recent leaks about the frozen bank accounts and the information on red shirt recruiting in Klong Toey has taken away the option of pro-red shirt posters denying that payments was taking place, although we did get something new from Kaiser in calling these payments a hygiene factor;-)
The answer for those who support the red shirts seems to be, so what if there are paid demonstrators, it doesn’t change the UDD from being a pro-democracy movement. I think we can see this tact in Andrew’s post and it’s the one that Professor Somsak has been saying for a while.
Problem is that this would make the red shirts a unique movement as we have no indications that any other legitimate pro-democracy movement anywhere else in the world has ever paid people to protest. Of course it is possibly a unique situation and they really are legitimate, but I suspect you wouldn’t get very good odds if a bookmaker allowed bets on it.
So, if we don’t go for the legitimate pro-democracy movement we are left with it being a pro-Thaksin movement, just the other side of the coin from the PAD. That’s fine, but can we drop all the class war rhetoric and argue over the pros and cons of Thaksin if that is the case.
(We do have the example Haym Salomon, the American Revolutionary War and the payment to Washington’s revolutionary army. Myself, I can’t quite make the connection between this and a modern pro-democracy movement.)
Sex, love and vote-buying
Oh, I see you are trying to communicate by choosing an example that you think some posters can easily relate to.
“We are told by commentators that impoverished and morally vulnerable voters focus on only one thing when they encounter politicians: money. Not policy, charisma or skill, just hard cold cash.
Those who aspire to lead must naturally take more than their share of the blame. So it seems apt here to mainly examine the role of movers and shakers in this stereotype. Others can be forgiven for just trying to survive. In that case, let’s confine ourselves to:
What policy? What charisma? What skill?
As the hard cash issue can never be proven here, we won’t bother with the last point on the elite side of the stereotype.
In the almost total absence of any means to prosecute power abusers, it is inevitable that arguments will go round & round in soap opera-like circles. So, yes. Stereotypes are a very poor alternative for hard facts. I’m just wondering how you imagine those hard facts are ever going to emerge.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Nation published the story today
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/06/24/national/Mystery-of-dads-death-solved-30132304.html
Thailand in crisis: Episode 4
“does having a party platform, running on that platform, then when you win ”
Yes, HR, it counts, but that is not the only thing Thaksin been busy with to win the elections.
One big part is making people believe in that narrative.
In your own post you say Thaksin gave people BTS. Well, it was actually opened BEFORE his first elections, and during his years in power he hasn’t added a single station to it.
Now it is regularly included in “great achievements of Thaksin” epic.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
“chris beale”:
It is a bit more complicated. The Nation and affiliated Thai language outlets are not a single entity, but there are many factions, dominating are the rabidly anti-Red and pro-government people in their offices. Nevertheless, there is a minority of journalists who still tries to report factually, regardless of political preferences, and despite strong pressure to follow the mainstream. The two who helped me there came from such a faction.
There are a small number of Thai journalists from many different newspapers who work very hard and are determined to follow up on the incidents, and continue to investigate them. They do know each other and help each other out, across affiliations to their respective newspapers, and often against the strong resistance of their colleagues and editors.
These journalists have my highest respect, their work is outstanding, their investigating capabilities are superb, and i personally have learned a lot from them. I very much enjoy working alongside with them.
There is one very nice aspect with Thai journalists in general – there is much collaboration going on. Colleagues always help each other out, compare notes, freely help with contacts and share information.
Unfortunately these qualities are often not reflected in the resulting articles, but this is more the problem of editorial office policies and political pressure than with the abilities of the working journos on the ground.
Thailand in crisis: Episode 4
Andrew,
I miss understood your post, I guess sometimes it happens on forums, no probs. I still ticked your last post in approval.
But, it still does not convince. There are still questions…
The buying of votes 100% cannot guarantee that person will vote based on confidential voting, but, they will want future hand outs and this will make sure the payments keep coming. Why do the richer, educated Thais not get offered money for votes?
If voters always took money and voted for the smaller vendor, wouldn’t that mean less payment for themselves, effectively eliminating the better financially backed candidate.
In all honesty, vote buying is rampant and a major factor in Thai elections. We can guess why it happens and how much effect it really has, but at the end of the day, should it be condoned regardless if we are of the persuasion that it has little or no effect whatsoever?
To this question, I say no, vote buying should not be a legal factor in any election. Cheap money should not be undermined as an ineffective tool to bait the poor, uneducated folk who may see a quick “buck” for an easy task, even if the task is not carried out. And in this situation we cannot judge any majority elected government based on such a wild card electoral tactic. Again I put it out there, ignoring the fact that it is rampant is believing that it is not only legal but morally ok.
H.R,
Sorry, but I think if you had actually researched the “improvements” that Thaksin introduced you will find they were not only NOT his ideas, but not even from the TRT. So what you are left with is just a plain old megalomaniac, with nothing but a big “above the law” ego and no respect for intellectual property.
He won his first election by landslide almost 10 years ago, his most recent election had no participation from the other major parties and it was close. His popularity is obviously on the wane, maybe if he ran today he’d lose by landslide…you never know.
Oh, one more thing, our dear PM Kevin Rudd, KRudd or Dr Spin has been tapped on the shoulder…I voted for him and so did the majority of Australia. Maybe we should get our Red Shirts out and take over the city CBD, get some M79 grenade launchers, turn all security cameras away and cause a ruckus…or maybe we should take over all major airports, government house and hijack TV stations??? If the army cracks down then its a HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION…
New Mandala turns four
4 years of soap opera politics, but you are still only telling us what the political poker players and their goon squads think. Reconciliation is worthless when it is only the reconciliation of criminals.
Money – don’t give me that do goody good bullshit
Both the red shirts and yellow shirts are eventually going to have to realise that they are leading this country inexorably towards a brutal civil war.
Both shirts have proved to the rest of us that they are not ready for democracy. And certainly it hasn’t existed here at any time in the past. Such ‘chao muang’ factions are nothing new, and have always spent more time posturing (and terrorising) than actually delivering any significant benefit. It is thus very important that the majority do not allow themselves to be manipulated by either set of color-coded succession terrorists. Their apologists are evident everywhere in this forum.
Historical affairs
What a gem! I don’t suppose there are online versions (yet?). The only digitized versions of old Burmese newspapers available online that I’ve come across so far are seven issues of the Hanthawaddy Weeky Review from 1903 available on the Myanmar E-Library. Are other NM readers aware of anything else similar available online?