They are readying, once again, to “harvest” the last remaining Teak forest in Phrae as we speak. It’s hard to imagine a more ruthless and greedy collection of people than those who make up the Thai governing class. Thaksin… Abhisit… makes no difference. Their center of gravity is not in Thailand and they no the value of absolutely nothing.
A very good article to see. The reification of Thailand’s obscene, neocolonial social structure in Bangkok is stupifying. Of course… cui bono… you know who.
After the upcoming peoples’ civilian coup Bangkok ought to be razed… at the very least the lowest, worst stinking, most-rapidly sinking parts abandoned… and the idea of primate city itself formally disavowed.
I remember being absolutely stupified at the construction of Suvarnabhumi Airport… why? Why not leave Don Mueang, operating for a century, and put the money into Chiang Mia, Korat, and Hat Yai airports, if you must, and the rest, the lion’s share, into the railroads?
Because the country is run for the benefit of “the government” and not the other way ’round. Of course.
I constantly wonder why so many NMers continue to be so supportive of this bent cop and his faked-up version of politics
I’m old enough to remembered what Chuan and Bunharn government did back in the 90s (Chaovalit didn’t have enough time in the office to be of any significant or to stop the inevitable) I recalled the Chuan government Sor-Por-Gor 4-01 corruption case and how they manage to escape the charge just because of Kanit Na Nakorn (the one who over see the April-May riot investigation) turn down the case simply because he cannot find any “intention” of wrong doing. I still recalled how Chuan and subsequently Bunharn spent “Billion” just to come up with the construction plan for the new air port and how they spend another “Billion” and about eight years to build a low quality parking lot for the airport. Fortunately for me that my memory is not so short like many Bangkokians who simply forgot everything that happened prior to 2001 and refused to mention anything about it.
Anyway, from the past experience Thaksin was the better choice to pick for the 2001 election, I never politically supporting him since I wasn’t even in Thailand during his time in office. However, I decided to be the red sympathizer not because of Thaksin, but because I hate coup detat and I want the country to be full grown and mature democracy. Make no mistake, I don’t think hard-line royalist like Thaksin is suitable to be the spiritual leader like Sun Yat Sen or Lenin but many people still cannot let loose of him, which is culturally understandable like how the Southerner cannot seem to forget about Chuan. All I can do is sit and wait for the red to mature and able to move on their own without Thaksin, I think this April-May riot has teach them a hard earn lesson, thanks to Abhisit for not dissolving the house and the military to suppress the red.
Well, I didn’t say that he has infinite immunity, I just said that he has immunity and he used his position to guarantee the bail.
Anyway, bailing is just small detail here, I think I want to talk about the supposedly “independent” jurisdiction that you said has been independent since 2007. The fact that people have been charge with “terrorism” act is ridiculous, the Royal Institute of Thailand never formally give a definite meaning to the word “terrorist” for legality use so how does the court even define people with “terrorism” act is beyond me, there’s no due process in Thailand anymore. However, since the charge has been fired away already so now the Royal Institute has to write up the definition of “terrorism” to fit the government agenda, this is not independent.
By now you would have realised, Thailand’s modern history, for people like StanG etc, starts with Thaksin. With that premise, all that is evil begins and ends with Thaksin.
How does one even begin to debate with people holding on to that kind of premise?
1. Reform at as wide a scope as possible – massive immediate change. Small incremental changes are easily sabotage. If you want to win a fight, you attack with an immediate and overwheming force. The status quo is too entrenched to be changed by anything but a tsunami.
2. Start from the top – EPU, MITI, MIDA and MDEC Iincharge of ICT). Unless the top changes, there can be no real change. Half the problems with implementations have been “instructions” , “introductions” “recommendations” letters from the top. The lower ranks have to follow thise, even if it flies in the face of logic or sensibilities. There are some technocrats that exist within the lower ranks, but they are powerless to really effect change.
3. He does not need to reach out to “civil” society as you put it. A large number of NGOs etc have very narrow focus. The changes needed in Malaysia is structural, well beyond the scope of the “civil” society. On the opposition states, Najib have to treat all states the same and respect the peoples choice, by first recognising tha the Federal is a custodian of funds not the owner. The idea of funneling development funds through UMNO and private “crony” companies is a farce. (Najib has not even consider this to be wrong – thats one of the reasons, I think the NEM, GTP etc are just nicely done writeups)
4. He doesn’t have to. If he treat all states according to no. 3 above, Perkasa and Mahathir will be too busy to bother him. Secondly, he can take a leaf out of Mahathir handbook and do an “operation lalang” on Perkasa.
#26 “However, I believe the fair question should be – why just get mad at Taksin and not those who came before?”
Have you got a post long enough for me to list all of the ones I am mad with who who went before? But as Thaksin himself seems prepared to cut them ALL a piece of slack (as such precedent would also make him highly punishable), I think we can safely say that he continues to exemplify everything bad in Thai politics. Indeed, even his ability to create reactionary enemies should be marked down against him, for its obvious incompetence and thoughtlessness.
During the colonial period, Siam was influenced by various European colonial powers such as France, Great Britain, the Netherlands, and Italy. Whereas Burma, Vietnam, and Indonesia experienced direct colonial rule (Britain, France, Dutch), Siam belonged to the indirect rule like Malaya. Indirect rule means the colonial powers rule via local men. The British utilized the Sultan and the King system in Malaysia and Thailand respectively. Thus, Chulalongkorn adopted the British centralized system. The sample of the British imprint would be Chulalongkorn’s equestrian statue. There are many similar equestrian statues in London. The influence of France and Italy would be the making of Bangkok ruling elites via education in Catholic schools. The 1932 coup d’ etat leaders were studied in France i.e. Pridi and Phibulsongkram. An Italian architect designed all the major European-style government buildings such as the Parliament, the Ministry of Defense, etc. The imprint of the Netherlands would be van der Heide’s irrigation system, the East Asiatic Co. Bangkok central train station was the direct copy of the Central Train Station in Amsterdam. Siam was the product of the indirect European rule via Chulalongkorn.
The postwar to present was the influence of the United States and the British. During the Cold War, the U.S. needed Thailand as the logistic support base for its Vietnam War. So the U.S. built freeways for Thailand; freeways in Thailand look identical to the U.S. freeways. Since Bangkok is the center of the Thai military command, the U.S. expanded it to become the SEATO headquarter command. So out of the sudden Bangkok became the regional hub of Southeast Asia air link and the city expanded exponentially.
During the colonial and post-colonial periods, the monarchy was able to manipulate the situation to become the richest family in the world with absolute military power unchallenged by any groups.
#25 Well Ralph. You didn’t really have to be a pro political pundit back in the mid-1990s to figure that Thaksin’s biggest weakness was his total inability to countenance the pursuance of any other interests than his own very narrow set. Maew has managed to cause almost all of this reaction against himself, by being such a complete blowhard. As such, I have ZERO sympathy with either him or the short-term thinkers (many now his enemies in the elite) who were prepared to tolerate his brand of simp CEO-style politics for the sake of a few lousy dollars more.
Thaksin really is too headstrong for his own good. He had the elite eating out of his hand at one point a few years back. You really should be asking yourself what is so wonderful about a man who can alienate so many in the elite in such a short space of time. Any politician worth a damn should be aware that his/hers is a balancing act with the desires of conservatives. If he couldn’t figure out that plain & simple truth, he should never have entered politics. That is a hard fact, regardless of what politics you espouse. so now he has created his own burden And one which he has to keep lying about, if he wants to keep his sorry backside out of the pen. Why should I support such a recalcitrant parasite?
I constantly wonder why so many NMers continue to be so supportive of this bent cop and his faked-up version of politics. I am convinced that expats can do more good by not taking sides in this conflict. One can have some sympathy with the ordinary folks who have been duped, and still have no wish to support any of the successionist goon squads. If we sell ourselves too cheaply to either faction, they will continue to assume that we are their lowly servants.
#29 “To say that Jiw was bought by Taksin with money is a very naive way of looking at the whole. It is true that Taksin’s wealth bought him some allies, but by and large, the most powerful that sided with Taksin is motivated by more than money – it is power, and long term power after Prem that all the big players are looking at. ”
Money or Power? Who cares what really spoils them. The net effect is the same.
I would contend it is also very naive of you to make such statements about Thaksin’s money. You don’t have to look very far to find the dirt trails. But of course we can’t ever prove it with a police force and judiciary that usually works for the highest bidder.
So what is it that you NMers are frightened of here. Perhaps it’s waking up one morning and finding that there isn’t a single party here worthy of your support. Do you ever get lonesome because you are left with no one to grayngjai?
My advice to Thai politicians is simple. It is up to YOU to prove your innocence to ME. Not the other way round. That is your burden for operating a system which you have deliberately tampered with to obscure the facts. Thus, “Thaksin bought Big Jiew ” in my book, until such time as they are both prepared to stoop to comprehensively prove their innocence. But of course neither of them will ever do that, since they are both locked into a vicious cicle of compulsive lying to save their own skins.
When the governing give in to the whims of those who refuse to discuss in reasoned debate, the uncompromising, and unrepentant violent then we have anarchy.
Let us be wary of those who discuss sharing or redistribution of wealth. It’s the sharing of prosperity for all that should be the goal – not taking from one and giving to another, but the empowerment and opportunity for personal and community success.
Equal rights; Equal Justice under rule of law; and recognition that debate strengthens us and leads us toward more informed decisions. On all sides of a topic, whether for or against, it’s when we stop listening, stop being willing to discuss and debate in open comity, that we fail the dream of democracy.
No you are wrong. It was a court, a judge’s, decision to grant Jataporn bail. The immunity for being an MP run out at the end of the parliamentary session. The prosecution, read government, were calling for no bail. The bail was granted because the court decided that being an MP implied that he was an honourable man.
Yes, let’s ignore moderates like Sukhumbhand. Poor fool, he is so lost in the real world or “let’s shut Thaksin up for ever.” Better still, why not keep the red shirt media off the air forever and hunt down the “extremists” so they can’t possibly influence anyone else. This is really beginning to sound like a kind of fascist extremism. But what the heck, the middle class wants it, so it must be good. Once the extremists are all shut up for ever, it will be easier. Shutting up can be censorship, arrest and murder or whatever the royalists/yellows/StooG’s want because we hate them all.
Good news, Somyos has been released and his interview about his illegal detention is carried by thaienews. Those who understand Thai can see from the interview how desperate this Mark govt, which depends its existence on a law called State of Emergency so as to stay in power longer.
This govt also wants to muzzle its critics, including by trying to re-buy the Thaicom satellite from the Singapore company Temasek. See below:
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Here lies a toppled god – Bangkok
They are readying, once again, to “harvest” the last remaining Teak forest in Phrae as we speak. It’s hard to imagine a more ruthless and greedy collection of people than those who make up the Thai governing class. Thaksin… Abhisit… makes no difference. Their center of gravity is not in Thailand and they no the value of absolutely nothing.
Here lies a toppled god – Bangkok
A very good article to see. The reification of Thailand’s obscene, neocolonial social structure in Bangkok is stupifying. Of course… cui bono… you know who.
After the upcoming peoples’ civilian coup Bangkok ought to be razed… at the very least the lowest, worst stinking, most-rapidly sinking parts abandoned… and the idea of primate city itself formally disavowed.
I remember being absolutely stupified at the construction of Suvarnabhumi Airport… why? Why not leave Don Mueang, operating for a century, and put the money into Chiang Mia, Korat, and Hat Yai airports, if you must, and the rest, the lion’s share, into the railroads?
Because the country is run for the benefit of “the government” and not the other way ’round. Of course.
Reconciliation: climbing the mountain
FredKorat – 27
I constantly wonder why so many NMers continue to be so supportive of this bent cop and his faked-up version of politics
I’m old enough to remembered what Chuan and Bunharn government did back in the 90s (Chaovalit didn’t have enough time in the office to be of any significant or to stop the inevitable) I recalled the Chuan government Sor-Por-Gor 4-01 corruption case and how they manage to escape the charge just because of Kanit Na Nakorn (the one who over see the April-May riot investigation) turn down the case simply because he cannot find any “intention” of wrong doing. I still recalled how Chuan and subsequently Bunharn spent “Billion” just to come up with the construction plan for the new air port and how they spend another “Billion” and about eight years to build a low quality parking lot for the airport. Fortunately for me that my memory is not so short like many Bangkokians who simply forgot everything that happened prior to 2001 and refused to mention anything about it.
Anyway, from the past experience Thaksin was the better choice to pick for the 2001 election, I never politically supporting him since I wasn’t even in Thailand during his time in office. However, I decided to be the red sympathizer not because of Thaksin, but because I hate coup detat and I want the country to be full grown and mature democracy. Make no mistake, I don’t think hard-line royalist like Thaksin is suitable to be the spiritual leader like Sun Yat Sen or Lenin but many people still cannot let loose of him, which is culturally understandable like how the Southerner cannot seem to forget about Chuan. All I can do is sit and wait for the red to mature and able to move on their own without Thaksin, I think this April-May riot has teach them a hard earn lesson, thanks to Abhisit for not dissolving the house and the military to suppress the red.
Thailand in crisis – Episode 3
LesAbbey – 11
Well, I didn’t say that he has infinite immunity, I just said that he has immunity and he used his position to guarantee the bail.
Anyway, bailing is just small detail here, I think I want to talk about the supposedly “independent” jurisdiction that you said has been independent since 2007. The fact that people have been charge with “terrorism” act is ridiculous, the Royal Institute of Thailand never formally give a definite meaning to the word “terrorist” for legality use so how does the court even define people with “terrorism” act is beyond me, there’s no due process in Thailand anymore. However, since the charge has been fired away already so now the Royal Institute has to write up the definition of “terrorism” to fit the government agenda, this is not independent.
Reconciliation: climbing the mountain
Well, Ralph, at least you seem to agree that talking to reds is a waste of time unless the govt is prepared to make a deal with Thaksin himself.
Yes, that would solve many problems but there are many arguments against it, too.
Here lies a toppled god – Bangkok
Should we move the capital to Saraburi as FM Plaek suggested during WWII?
Violating human rights? Yes, indeed!
Somsak #98: Thank you for the link.
Reconciliation: climbing the mountain
FredKorat: you miss my point, but make it for me at the same time. Thanks.
Thanong on King Bhumibol
Dear Nuomi,
By now you would have realised, Thailand’s modern history, for people like StanG etc, starts with Thaksin. With that premise, all that is evil begins and ends with Thaksin.
How does one even begin to debate with people holding on to that kind of premise?
Najib, what’s the political strategy?
Let me answer the questions one at a time –
1. Reform at as wide a scope as possible – massive immediate change. Small incremental changes are easily sabotage. If you want to win a fight, you attack with an immediate and overwheming force. The status quo is too entrenched to be changed by anything but a tsunami.
2. Start from the top – EPU, MITI, MIDA and MDEC Iincharge of ICT). Unless the top changes, there can be no real change. Half the problems with implementations have been “instructions” , “introductions” “recommendations” letters from the top. The lower ranks have to follow thise, even if it flies in the face of logic or sensibilities. There are some technocrats that exist within the lower ranks, but they are powerless to really effect change.
3. He does not need to reach out to “civil” society as you put it. A large number of NGOs etc have very narrow focus. The changes needed in Malaysia is structural, well beyond the scope of the “civil” society. On the opposition states, Najib have to treat all states the same and respect the peoples choice, by first recognising tha the Federal is a custodian of funds not the owner. The idea of funneling development funds through UMNO and private “crony” companies is a farce. (Najib has not even consider this to be wrong – thats one of the reasons, I think the NEM, GTP etc are just nicely done writeups)
4. He doesn’t have to. If he treat all states according to no. 3 above, Perkasa and Mahathir will be too busy to bother him. Secondly, he can take a leaf out of Mahathir handbook and do an “operation lalang” on Perkasa.
Thanong on King Bhumibol
#26 “However, I believe the fair question should be – why just get mad at Taksin and not those who came before?”
Have you got a post long enough for me to list all of the ones I am mad with who who went before? But as Thaksin himself seems prepared to cut them ALL a piece of slack (as such precedent would also make him highly punishable), I think we can safely say that he continues to exemplify everything bad in Thai politics. Indeed, even his ability to create reactionary enemies should be marked down against him, for its obvious incompetence and thoughtlessness.
Here lies a toppled god – Bangkok
During the colonial period, Siam was influenced by various European colonial powers such as France, Great Britain, the Netherlands, and Italy. Whereas Burma, Vietnam, and Indonesia experienced direct colonial rule (Britain, France, Dutch), Siam belonged to the indirect rule like Malaya. Indirect rule means the colonial powers rule via local men. The British utilized the Sultan and the King system in Malaysia and Thailand respectively. Thus, Chulalongkorn adopted the British centralized system. The sample of the British imprint would be Chulalongkorn’s equestrian statue. There are many similar equestrian statues in London. The influence of France and Italy would be the making of Bangkok ruling elites via education in Catholic schools. The 1932 coup d’ etat leaders were studied in France i.e. Pridi and Phibulsongkram. An Italian architect designed all the major European-style government buildings such as the Parliament, the Ministry of Defense, etc. The imprint of the Netherlands would be van der Heide’s irrigation system, the East Asiatic Co. Bangkok central train station was the direct copy of the Central Train Station in Amsterdam. Siam was the product of the indirect European rule via Chulalongkorn.
The postwar to present was the influence of the United States and the British. During the Cold War, the U.S. needed Thailand as the logistic support base for its Vietnam War. So the U.S. built freeways for Thailand; freeways in Thailand look identical to the U.S. freeways. Since Bangkok is the center of the Thai military command, the U.S. expanded it to become the SEATO headquarter command. So out of the sudden Bangkok became the regional hub of Southeast Asia air link and the city expanded exponentially.
During the colonial and post-colonial periods, the monarchy was able to manipulate the situation to become the richest family in the world with absolute military power unchallenged by any groups.
Reconciliation: climbing the mountain
#25 Well Ralph. You didn’t really have to be a pro political pundit back in the mid-1990s to figure that Thaksin’s biggest weakness was his total inability to countenance the pursuance of any other interests than his own very narrow set. Maew has managed to cause almost all of this reaction against himself, by being such a complete blowhard. As such, I have ZERO sympathy with either him or the short-term thinkers (many now his enemies in the elite) who were prepared to tolerate his brand of simp CEO-style politics for the sake of a few lousy dollars more.
Thaksin really is too headstrong for his own good. He had the elite eating out of his hand at one point a few years back. You really should be asking yourself what is so wonderful about a man who can alienate so many in the elite in such a short space of time. Any politician worth a damn should be aware that his/hers is a balancing act with the desires of conservatives. If he couldn’t figure out that plain & simple truth, he should never have entered politics. That is a hard fact, regardless of what politics you espouse. so now he has created his own burden And one which he has to keep lying about, if he wants to keep his sorry backside out of the pen. Why should I support such a recalcitrant parasite?
I constantly wonder why so many NMers continue to be so supportive of this bent cop and his faked-up version of politics. I am convinced that expats can do more good by not taking sides in this conflict. One can have some sympathy with the ordinary folks who have been duped, and still have no wish to support any of the successionist goon squads. If we sell ourselves too cheaply to either faction, they will continue to assume that we are their lowly servants.
The challenges for Thailand’s arch-royalist military
#29 “To say that Jiw was bought by Taksin with money is a very naive way of looking at the whole. It is true that Taksin’s wealth bought him some allies, but by and large, the most powerful that sided with Taksin is motivated by more than money – it is power, and long term power after Prem that all the big players are looking at. ”
Money or Power? Who cares what really spoils them. The net effect is the same.
I would contend it is also very naive of you to make such statements about Thaksin’s money. You don’t have to look very far to find the dirt trails. But of course we can’t ever prove it with a police force and judiciary that usually works for the highest bidder.
So what is it that you NMers are frightened of here. Perhaps it’s waking up one morning and finding that there isn’t a single party here worthy of your support. Do you ever get lonesome because you are left with no one to grayngjai?
My advice to Thai politicians is simple. It is up to YOU to prove your innocence to ME. Not the other way round. That is your burden for operating a system which you have deliberately tampered with to obscure the facts. Thus, “Thaksin bought Big Jiew ” in my book, until such time as they are both prepared to stoop to comprehensively prove their innocence. But of course neither of them will ever do that, since they are both locked into a vicious cicle of compulsive lying to save their own skins.
Reconciliation: climbing the mountain
When the governing give in to the whims of those who refuse to discuss in reasoned debate, the uncompromising, and unrepentant violent then we have anarchy.
Let us be wary of those who discuss sharing or redistribution of wealth. It’s the sharing of prosperity for all that should be the goal – not taking from one and giving to another, but the empowerment and opportunity for personal and community success.
Equal rights; Equal Justice under rule of law; and recognition that debate strengthens us and leads us toward more informed decisions. On all sides of a topic, whether for or against, it’s when we stop listening, stop being willing to discuss and debate in open comity, that we fail the dream of democracy.
Najib, what’s the political strategy?
Thanks very much Neptunian for sharing your experience.
Assuming that Najib does indeed want to implement reforms:
1. How wide should the scope be (Big bang or incremental?)
2. How should he prioritise it (starting with selected areas in the economy -e.g. smaller Ministries – as opposed to central agencies such as EPU?
3. Should he reach out to civil society, opposition, etc?
4. How can he outflank PERKASA & Dr. Mahathir?
Thailand in crisis – Episode 3
Tarrin – 10
Jatuporn is a MP, he’s has parliament immunity.
No you are wrong. It was a court, a judge’s, decision to grant Jataporn bail. The immunity for being an MP run out at the end of the parliamentary session. The prosecution, read government, were calling for no bail. The bail was granted because the court decided that being an MP implied that he was an honourable man.
Violating human rights? Yes, indeed!
Somsak – 98
Thanks for the link.
Reconciliation: climbing the mountain
Yes, let’s ignore moderates like Sukhumbhand. Poor fool, he is so lost in the real world or “let’s shut Thaksin up for ever.” Better still, why not keep the red shirt media off the air forever and hunt down the “extremists” so they can’t possibly influence anyone else. This is really beginning to sound like a kind of fascist extremism. But what the heck, the middle class wants it, so it must be good. Once the extremists are all shut up for ever, it will be easier. Shutting up can be censorship, arrest and murder or whatever the royalists/yellows/StooG’s want because we hate them all.
Violating human rights? Yes, indeed!
Good news, Somyos has been released and his interview about his illegal detention is carried by thaienews. Those who understand Thai can see from the interview how desperate this Mark govt, which depends its existence on a law called State of Emergency so as to stay in power longer.
This govt also wants to muzzle its critics, including by trying to re-buy the Thaicom satellite from the Singapore company Temasek. See below:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/telecom/181132/government-pursues-plan-to-buy-thaicom
Pls read the comments given by the readers too.