Its interesting to note that the same economists that produce such reports have led the western world to the brink of economic collapse.
Adam Smith summed up the true situation years ago when he stated that economic growth is dependent upon production. A country that is at work will prosper.
The best way to put a country to work is by allowing opportunities to exist… people will do the rest all by themselves.
Government dabbling in the economy has a proven track record of failure, whether that be socialist dabbling or capitalist.
The fact is, economic policies are in reality a gateway to graft and corruption. Usually these policies are created by bankers for the profit of banks. Shrouding their efforts in impenetrable logic and high sounding ideals is de rigor.
This is unrelated to the debate and discussion here but I would love to see what other ppl think about lack of student movements these days, don’t know where I should ask about this 🙂
As Somsak Jeamteerasakul wrote about reason of costs as for lack of student protests. I have wondered lack of protests in general among students too but I would not put it as cost factor for what seems lack of student activity, because in the contrary of lets say 1960s and 1970s, publication of materials have become virtually free due to internet. Then taking into account the risen living costs but also INCOME, that 1 baht magazine might cost now 15 baht but same time students would have more money (and again, internet has made publication of materials free).
(Btw, SFT took part in 1992 more visibly than this time)
Now, organizing rally, sound systems etc. actually the (unfortunate?) thing is that this would be an attributed to requirements of hmm lets say pampered and eXperience lifestyles of ours now? Everything has to be bigger and better just to get our short attention!
AND this would lead actually what I have thought about – could the lack of students movements be more a reason of lifestyle and media scene change – we are so bombarded with multimedia messages of consuming things everywhere that you see around you an apathy of interest in politics and social issues of everyday life or long term issues?
Second thing is: is it actually even TRUE the common notion that there is few student movement actions etc? On what basis that is even measured? Just gut feeling? I recognize myself saying that too, “student movement days are over”.
Actually Naomi Klein in her book No Logo touches this subject imho when she details all so many small groups of activists against all sort of issues that there is less traction for “big things” and big movements. This being highlighted in the context of her book. Well her book also talks about the huge commercialization of student environments and environment in general where instead of activity pamphlets on uni halls you see ads for new M-150 taste or brand of snacks. Maybe that is a factor too. I also believe that especially the western situation has gotten such that there is “nothing to protest about” combined with the numbness of senses from all the messages and sleek government media machines, all there is left is some small time pockets of activity groups when everyone else watches new reality show. Thai students having imho potentially much more and big reasons to protest (big exception: Greece, there students are in strike every so often or so it feels)….
saying police raided GT200 manufacturer’s office. The GT200 is a device used by Thai military to detect the bomb in the south. Maj. Gen. Kattiya (Sae Dang) once said it’s useless and the Army had made some profit from purchasing this. The Thai government asked Ministry of Science to test the detector, it found 4 out of 20 or 25% accurate. However, the Army insisted it is working just fine, despite the British government said it is a fraud one.
If I recall it correctly, one of the reasons of the Reds protests was to prevent General Prayuth from succeeding General Anuphong as Army Chief. The Reds actually rejected Abhisit’s Nov. 14th election date offer because by that time the army shuffle would be over with General Prayuth taking over as Army Chief.
Why NOT General Prayuth and who was the Reds Army Chief preference?
A great description of what is really at the core of politics. But could we avoid bringing “Privy Premocracy” into common usage? “Network Monarchy” was bad enough. 🙂
The source is his sister. She once told in a local newspaper interview when he was Opposition leader. The interview happened after Abhisit’s credit card was secretly used by his housemaid. It took awhile before he noticed that. The maid used his credit card to withdraw cash several time, I think almost a million in total.
In his early day in the PM Office, he “showed off” by helping the worker to clean the stairway of the office building, and smiled to camera.
But, the thing is, he didn’t know how to handle the bloom.
This may be such a small thing. But, small thing reflects the bigger image, isn’t it?
Assuming that witness isn’t a plant, I don’t see how his evidence tells us anything at all. Wouldn’t the guards be right to warn people not to go outside, or risk death, considering they were in a gun battle with troops? People that did go outside, or even to the front of the temple, got caught in the crossfire, like Andrew Buncombe. Since the shots could’ve come from any direction, surely it was more likely to be soldiers firing at red guards? If it were red guards, wouldn’t the people in the temple turn against them? I’m sure there’d be more witnesses.
So first we’re asked to believe that the reds started the fires (retrospectively justifying the crackdown because they’re just terrorists that deserve to die anyway), then we’re asked to believe that they shot themselves to gain credibility? So the easiest way to maintain credibility would be not to burn anything rather than shooting themselves. So you’re saying Thaksin planned the arson, but then asked red guards to shoot UDD people? I think he’s a pretty smart guy, he’d know what effect arson would have, and I just don’t think he’s evil enough to have his own supporters shot. You’re clutching at straws in your attempt to defend Abhisit/military.
People talk about Thaksin’s crimes at Tak Bai, Kru Se & so on. Those weren’t Thaksin’s crimes. Those were military crimes. The military didn’t change when Abhisit took power. One only needs to refresh one’s memory of the Rohingya tragedy or even the treatment of the Hmong refugees to be sure of that. I don’t know, what is this? Criticising Thaksin’s human rights record for political points, but minimizing now? No cognitive dissonance at all?
Agree with Somsak Jeamteerasakul’s points on this thread. I’d made pretty much the same assumptions with no insider knowledge (& yes, like him, I’m a red sympathizer).
I would always read the Nation with a grain of salt. This paper likes to use the term “our source” to start their lies, now it begins to use the word “witness”. Even if there is no witness, the Nation will create one.
The victims at Wat Patum were shot at about 6 – 7 pm on the 19th when the reds had disappeared from the area after being totally intimidated by govt snipers, who were roaming the BTS track and firing from above.
Now just wait for the results of the investigation, but wait, the head of the probe team is the one personally selected by Abhisit himself, namely a former attorney general. This guy was already well known for siding with the democrats in the land scandal in Phuket during Chuan’s rule.
I am not good english but I like to tell all of you that thai govt. blocked ” Thailand cisis Thailand on the verge ANU 21 April 2010 in new mandala web site”
since 19 April all Thai medias that controling by Thai Govt. made news and talk about the building burn in Bangkok No Thai medias talk about the 88 dead.
no thai medias go to Hospital to talk with the wounded people. no Thai medias ask the wounded people that who shot them.
Please…Please …. Please … help thai people.Thailand has gone upside down under Thai govt. who bad below than Burma govt.
Please U.N. USA. UK. Red coss, human right watch do some thing to kick out this bad thai govt. and help Thai people.
Please… international medias bring the truth in Thailand to the world I no hope with Thai medais.please all of you do some thing now because I could smell that the govt. easy to kill more because this govt. still run their Jobs.
What Athita said about Abhisit’s ATM expertise is no rumour. Every one in the marketplace here knows that Abhisit even wrote the pin number on the card so his maid could withdraw as much as she liked. Of course this happened long time ago before he became PM and local papers casually reported and saw it as cute.
When he just became PM and there was some cleaning exercise near his office, he held his broom in such a clumsy way that showed his privileged background. This one is no rumor either as it was published as front cover of a weekly magazine.
All these are small things that can be ignored given what he had just done to protect his invisible backers.
The idea that the Burmese military could even remotely pose a proliferation threat is pretty ridiculous. They can’t even keep the lights on in Naypyitaw.
And I agree with N. above – relying on ‘defectors’ was bad enough in Iraq, in Burma it’s silly I no single government, even the US, has come out to give any credence to these claims.
Don’t get me wrong – there’s a lot of nastiness in Burma and nasty people in the army, but this nuclear story has two problems (beyond the obvious lack of real evidence):
(1) its conjured up and being put forward by people who’s dream is to invite US/Western intervention (a la Iraq), and at the very least scupper attempts to engage the regime.
(2) it plays directly into the hands of hardliners in the regime who are trying to convince the rest that they may be paranoid, but they really do have enemies. I’m sure there are people in the regime who love this attention because it basically detracts from the real issues (like bad economic governance), they at least have the option of pulling off a Libya, with no more democratic questions asked.
Who loses out from peddling half-baked stories? The Burmese people (again).
Del(#66)-Yes, I read the Nation article, but it’s not clear that you did. Try reading past the first paragraph. Please explain how a witness could know that Red Shirt guards, not soldiers, did the shooting, and at the same time not know from which direction the shots came. The article certainly doesn’t explain it. No one is denying they have some sort of witness. But that by itself proves nothing.
That’s my point… I don’t think elections will solve anything either, like I said, they have already had them and look what happened. To Thais reading this don’t be offended, but its time Thailand and Thais grew up politically. You have yet to understand that in a democracy you can have 49% of the population not getting what they want…BUT, they still abide by the agreed social contract. Not so in Thailand. Too many people only intersted in their own advancement at the cost of the country….and I put Thaksin and PAD and UDD all in the same basket here.
Interesting to see Prem and Sarayud classed as royal “civilians”
Particularly as the King is also nominally “military” as commander of the armed forces
A fine distinction perhaps but crucial to the claim of two ranks of civilians vs the military
I think its more correct to say the political civilians (some of whom are retired military of course) are sandwiched between an unarmed but ultimately powerful military and the armed military
also, perhaps quite close to home is the probability that the two most significant of the royal “civilians”, the King and hoping-to-be-regent Prem may die, it would be interesting to speculate on the impact that would have
Tarrin, superanonymous and Roger must be really worried about The Nation article. If they read that article, it says there is A WITNESS. When there is one witness, there are bound to be more because there were lots Reds taking sanctuary at that temple when the massacre (by other Reds) occurred.
After I saw that young Red brains blown out on TV, with the shot clearly coming from the Red camp during the April 10th riots, I am convinced the ‘civil war’ plan so cavalierly announced by Thaksin’s terror-man General Khattiya in his many press interviews, must be deadly real. Thaksin after all never disowned the statement of General Khattiya that he was hired by Thaksin . . . up to the time General Khattiya was assassinated.
The Reds leadership were deadly serious in getting as many followers at Rachaprasong martyred believing with enough Red martyrs would trigger mass uprising and ‘civil war’.
Thanks for that info on the Social Democrat/Socialist Party. I had missed that. In the UK, where Marx saw the best hope for a socialist party, the Labour Party was built on the fledgling trade union movement. Maybe that’s where it’s need to start from here.
In most European countries you have socialist and communist parties – they are part of the democratic kaleidoscope there. Their existence as political parties is not “far different to mine or much of the west” in terms of understanding of Democracy.
Here we can find a differences in outlook towards democracy between those parties still following the reformist 2nd. International line, more often the European social democrat parties, and those following the revolutionary 3rd. or 4th. Internationals, the old communist parties. The latter really have no traditional ties to the concept of Western democracy having been built on the idea of the dictatorship of the proletariat. Locally we could look at the difference between how it’s meant to work in Thailand compared to how it works in Laos or how it worked in Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge.
Re c1 & c20 about that Asia Times Online “exclusive” published two weeks after the event, I too have been struck by the absence of any follow-up by other media. Certainly, the story has been enthusiastically promoted on blogs by those whose agenda it self-evidently suits to do so – but, AFAIK, has not been picked up on or even referred to by any mainstream media.
To be fair, it’s difficult to see how anyone could provide confirmation of what’s described – but the absence of even any MSM reference to what’s claimed does seem strange. Kenneth Todd Ruiz (writer) tweeted:
In my sentbox are pitch letters stretching back more than a week. But very valid question, thank you. 12:59 PM May 29th via web
Good questions asked. Story wasn’t ‘held,’ but I’m from LA newspapering; new to freelance market in BKK. Freelance = publishes when sold. 12:58 PM May 29th via web
(nothing further on the subject since then).
I’ve wondered before why those others to whom Ruiz’s “gripping story” (his words) was pitched decided to pass on it. Cost? If they were outbid, are we to assume that ATO is flush with cash? Credibility?
On whether PM Abhisit should step down within 1-3 months is debatable but I still think 1-3 months is still achievable. You made it seems like if a PM quite the whole country will collapse, that’s hardly the case since the government still retain the ability to run the day-to-day operation just not making anymore decision or project.
About the democratic value, I dont think we shouldn’t discuss about that since many of the mechanic is not in place, let me reminded you that Thailand had seen a fair amount of bloodshed from the crackdown on democratic movement; 1973, 1976 and 1992. I’m more than certain that people, at least among the poor Thais, are well aware of Democratic value that’s why they felt angry and betrayed in the eve of the 2006 coup, that’s why they came out and demand the dissolution of this government because they felt that there were not being treat fairly since the representative that they elected themselves (Newin’s gang) betrayed them.
Now, the point that you raise about how UK and Canada go about their political play is understandable, but this is not the case with Thailand, where we have so many people and organization that doesn’t hold any accountability to their action and those people can manipulated the legislation and the jurisdiction at will. You just can’t compare UK to Thailand in that sense because we are not even there yet, in term of mechanism.
Del @56,
I am sorry to toss iced water on the Nation’s article, but as a once professional soldier I have seen many people killed by pistols, M79’s etc and none of the people in the temple were killed by any of those, they were all killed by high powered rounds that came from the barrel of a rifle.
So far in all the videos/photos I have seen only the Thai army armed with these.
To add to this I have seen photos of police investigators (not DSI) using string etc to determine the angle people were shot from in the temple. Three of these photos clearly show that the shots came from up high.
Unfortunately the Nation is no longer a reliable source and lost what little credibility it had left when its editor (Thanong) claimed that Thaksin, had cancer, was dead, was dying of cancer, was sick from chemotherapy, the British government had frozen 4 million pounds etc etc.
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Lao development debates in the news
Its interesting to note that the same economists that produce such reports have led the western world to the brink of economic collapse.
Adam Smith summed up the true situation years ago when he stated that economic growth is dependent upon production. A country that is at work will prosper.
The best way to put a country to work is by allowing opportunities to exist… people will do the rest all by themselves.
Government dabbling in the economy has a proven track record of failure, whether that be socialist dabbling or capitalist.
The fact is, economic policies are in reality a gateway to graft and corruption. Usually these policies are created by bankers for the profit of banks. Shrouding their efforts in impenetrable logic and high sounding ideals is de rigor.
Violating human rights? Yes, indeed!
This is unrelated to the debate and discussion here but I would love to see what other ppl think about lack of student movements these days, don’t know where I should ask about this 🙂
As Somsak Jeamteerasakul wrote about reason of costs as for lack of student protests. I have wondered lack of protests in general among students too but I would not put it as cost factor for what seems lack of student activity, because in the contrary of lets say 1960s and 1970s, publication of materials have become virtually free due to internet. Then taking into account the risen living costs but also INCOME, that 1 baht magazine might cost now 15 baht but same time students would have more money (and again, internet has made publication of materials free).
(Btw, SFT took part in 1992 more visibly than this time)
Now, organizing rally, sound systems etc. actually the (unfortunate?) thing is that this would be an attributed to requirements of hmm lets say pampered and eXperience lifestyles of ours now? Everything has to be bigger and better just to get our short attention!
AND this would lead actually what I have thought about – could the lack of students movements be more a reason of lifestyle and media scene change – we are so bombarded with multimedia messages of consuming things everywhere that you see around you an apathy of interest in politics and social issues of everyday life or long term issues?
Second thing is: is it actually even TRUE the common notion that there is few student movement actions etc? On what basis that is even measured? Just gut feeling? I recognize myself saying that too, “student movement days are over”.
Actually Naomi Klein in her book No Logo touches this subject imho when she details all so many small groups of activists against all sort of issues that there is less traction for “big things” and big movements. This being highlighted in the context of her book. Well her book also talks about the huge commercialization of student environments and environment in general where instead of activity pamphlets on uni halls you see ads for new M-150 taste or brand of snacks. Maybe that is a factor too. I also believe that especially the western situation has gotten such that there is “nothing to protest about” combined with the numbness of senses from all the messages and sleek government media machines, all there is left is some small time pockets of activity groups when everyone else watches new reality show. Thai students having imho potentially much more and big reasons to protest (big exception: Greece, there students are in strike every so often or so it feels)….
The challenges for Thailand’s arch-royalist military
Great article.
I found Bangkok Pundit has just brought a news from the Independent
(http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/inquiry-into-sale-of-fake-bomb-detectors-expanded-1994769.html)
saying police raided GT200 manufacturer’s office. The GT200 is a device used by Thai military to detect the bomb in the south. Maj. Gen. Kattiya (Sae Dang) once said it’s useless and the Army had made some profit from purchasing this. The Thai government asked Ministry of Science to test the detector, it found 4 out of 20 or 25% accurate. However, the Army insisted it is working just fine, despite the British government said it is a fraud one.
The challenges for Thailand’s arch-royalist military
What was it about General Prayuth?
If I recall it correctly, one of the reasons of the Reds protests was to prevent General Prayuth from succeeding General Anuphong as Army Chief. The Reds actually rejected Abhisit’s Nov. 14th election date offer because by that time the army shuffle would be over with General Prayuth taking over as Army Chief.
Why NOT General Prayuth and who was the Reds Army Chief preference?
The challenges for Thailand’s arch-royalist military
A great description of what is really at the core of politics. But could we avoid bringing “Privy Premocracy” into common usage? “Network Monarchy” was bad enough. 🙂
Abhisit’s human rights education
To “NoDoubt” #6
The source is his sister. She once told in a local newspaper interview when he was Opposition leader. The interview happened after Abhisit’s credit card was secretly used by his housemaid. It took awhile before he noticed that. The maid used his credit card to withdraw cash several time, I think almost a million in total.
In his early day in the PM Office, he “showed off” by helping the worker to clean the stairway of the office building, and smiled to camera.
But, the thing is, he didn’t know how to handle the bloom.
This may be such a small thing. But, small thing reflects the bigger image, isn’t it?
Violating human rights? Yes, indeed!
Assuming that witness isn’t a plant, I don’t see how his evidence tells us anything at all. Wouldn’t the guards be right to warn people not to go outside, or risk death, considering they were in a gun battle with troops? People that did go outside, or even to the front of the temple, got caught in the crossfire, like Andrew Buncombe. Since the shots could’ve come from any direction, surely it was more likely to be soldiers firing at red guards? If it were red guards, wouldn’t the people in the temple turn against them? I’m sure there’d be more witnesses.
So first we’re asked to believe that the reds started the fires (retrospectively justifying the crackdown because they’re just terrorists that deserve to die anyway), then we’re asked to believe that they shot themselves to gain credibility? So the easiest way to maintain credibility would be not to burn anything rather than shooting themselves. So you’re saying Thaksin planned the arson, but then asked red guards to shoot UDD people? I think he’s a pretty smart guy, he’d know what effect arson would have, and I just don’t think he’s evil enough to have his own supporters shot. You’re clutching at straws in your attempt to defend Abhisit/military.
People talk about Thaksin’s crimes at Tak Bai, Kru Se & so on. Those weren’t Thaksin’s crimes. Those were military crimes. The military didn’t change when Abhisit took power. One only needs to refresh one’s memory of the Rohingya tragedy or even the treatment of the Hmong refugees to be sure of that. I don’t know, what is this? Criticising Thaksin’s human rights record for political points, but minimizing now? No cognitive dissonance at all?
Agree with Somsak Jeamteerasakul’s points on this thread. I’d made pretty much the same assumptions with no insider knowledge (& yes, like him, I’m a red sympathizer).
Violating human rights? Yes, indeed!
I would always read the Nation with a grain of salt. This paper likes to use the term “our source” to start their lies, now it begins to use the word “witness”. Even if there is no witness, the Nation will create one.
The victims at Wat Patum were shot at about 6 – 7 pm on the 19th when the reds had disappeared from the area after being totally intimidated by govt snipers, who were roaming the BTS track and firing from above.
Now just wait for the results of the investigation, but wait, the head of the probe team is the one personally selected by Abhisit himself, namely a former attorney general. This guy was already well known for siding with the democrats in the land scandal in Phuket during Chuan’s rule.
Thailand in crisis – ANU video series
I am not good english but I like to tell all of you that thai govt. blocked ” Thailand cisis Thailand on the verge ANU 21 April 2010 in new mandala web site”
since 19 April all Thai medias that controling by Thai Govt. made news and talk about the building burn in Bangkok No Thai medias talk about the 88 dead.
no thai medias go to Hospital to talk with the wounded people. no Thai medias ask the wounded people that who shot them.
Please…Please …. Please … help thai people.Thailand has gone upside down under Thai govt. who bad below than Burma govt.
Please U.N. USA. UK. Red coss, human right watch do some thing to kick out this bad thai govt. and help Thai people.
Please… international medias bring the truth in Thailand to the world I no hope with Thai medais.please all of you do some thing now because I could smell that the govt. easy to kill more because this govt. still run their Jobs.
Thank you very much
Abhisit’s human rights education
Nodoubt, # 6
What Athita said about Abhisit’s ATM expertise is no rumour. Every one in the marketplace here knows that Abhisit even wrote the pin number on the card so his maid could withdraw as much as she liked. Of course this happened long time ago before he became PM and local papers casually reported and saw it as cute.
When he just became PM and there was some cleaning exercise near his office, he held his broom in such a clumsy way that showed his privileged background. This one is no rumor either as it was published as front cover of a weekly magazine.
All these are small things that can be ignored given what he had just done to protect his invisible backers.
Question of the month: Burma and WMD?
The idea that the Burmese military could even remotely pose a proliferation threat is pretty ridiculous. They can’t even keep the lights on in Naypyitaw.
And I agree with N. above – relying on ‘defectors’ was bad enough in Iraq, in Burma it’s silly I no single government, even the US, has come out to give any credence to these claims.
Don’t get me wrong – there’s a lot of nastiness in Burma and nasty people in the army, but this nuclear story has two problems (beyond the obvious lack of real evidence):
(1) its conjured up and being put forward by people who’s dream is to invite US/Western intervention (a la Iraq), and at the very least scupper attempts to engage the regime.
(2) it plays directly into the hands of hardliners in the regime who are trying to convince the rest that they may be paranoid, but they really do have enemies. I’m sure there are people in the regime who love this attention because it basically detracts from the real issues (like bad economic governance), they at least have the option of pulling off a Libya, with no more democratic questions asked.
Who loses out from peddling half-baked stories? The Burmese people (again).
Violating human rights? Yes, indeed!
Del(#66)-Yes, I read the Nation article, but it’s not clear that you did. Try reading past the first paragraph. Please explain how a witness could know that Red Shirt guards, not soldiers, did the shooting, and at the same time not know from which direction the shots came. The article certainly doesn’t explain it. No one is denying they have some sort of witness. But that by itself proves nothing.
Thailand in crisis – ANU video series
To Colin
That’s my point… I don’t think elections will solve anything either, like I said, they have already had them and look what happened. To Thais reading this don’t be offended, but its time Thailand and Thais grew up politically. You have yet to understand that in a democracy you can have 49% of the population not getting what they want…BUT, they still abide by the agreed social contract. Not so in Thailand. Too many people only intersted in their own advancement at the cost of the country….and I put Thaksin and PAD and UDD all in the same basket here.
The challenges for Thailand’s arch-royalist military
Interesting to see Prem and Sarayud classed as royal “civilians”
Particularly as the King is also nominally “military” as commander of the armed forces
A fine distinction perhaps but crucial to the claim of two ranks of civilians vs the military
I think its more correct to say the political civilians (some of whom are retired military of course) are sandwiched between an unarmed but ultimately powerful military and the armed military
also, perhaps quite close to home is the probability that the two most significant of the royal “civilians”, the King and hoping-to-be-regent Prem may die, it would be interesting to speculate on the impact that would have
Violating human rights? Yes, indeed!
Tarrin, superanonymous and Roger must be really worried about The Nation article. If they read that article, it says there is A WITNESS. When there is one witness, there are bound to be more because there were lots Reds taking sanctuary at that temple when the massacre (by other Reds) occurred.
After I saw that young Red brains blown out on TV, with the shot clearly coming from the Red camp during the April 10th riots, I am convinced the ‘civil war’ plan so cavalierly announced by Thaksin’s terror-man General Khattiya in his many press interviews, must be deadly real. Thaksin after all never disowned the statement of General Khattiya that he was hired by Thaksin . . . up to the time General Khattiya was assassinated.
The Reds leadership were deadly serious in getting as many followers at Rachaprasong martyred believing with enough Red martyrs would trigger mass uprising and ‘civil war’.
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
Nick Nostitz – 92
Thanks for that info on the Social Democrat/Socialist Party. I had missed that. In the UK, where Marx saw the best hope for a socialist party, the Labour Party was built on the fledgling trade union movement. Maybe that’s where it’s need to start from here.
In most European countries you have socialist and communist parties – they are part of the democratic kaleidoscope there. Their existence as political parties is not “far different to mine or much of the west” in terms of understanding of Democracy.
Here we can find a differences in outlook towards democracy between those parties still following the reformist 2nd. International line, more often the European social democrat parties, and those following the revolutionary 3rd. or 4th. Internationals, the old communist parties. The latter really have no traditional ties to the concept of Western democracy having been built on the idea of the dictatorship of the proletariat. Locally we could look at the difference between how it’s meant to work in Thailand compared to how it works in Laos or how it worked in Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge.
Thailand in crisis – ANU video series
Re c1 & c20 about that Asia Times Online “exclusive” published two weeks after the event, I too have been struck by the absence of any follow-up by other media. Certainly, the story has been enthusiastically promoted on blogs by those whose agenda it self-evidently suits to do so – but, AFAIK, has not been picked up on or even referred to by any mainstream media.
To be fair, it’s difficult to see how anyone could provide confirmation of what’s described – but the absence of even any MSM reference to what’s claimed does seem strange. Kenneth Todd Ruiz (writer) tweeted:
In my sentbox are pitch letters stretching back more than a week. But very valid question, thank you. 12:59 PM May 29th via web
Good questions asked. Story wasn’t ‘held,’ but I’m from LA newspapering; new to freelance market in BKK. Freelance = publishes when sold. 12:58 PM May 29th via web
(nothing further on the subject since then).
I’ve wondered before why those others to whom Ruiz’s “gripping story” (his words) was pitched decided to pass on it. Cost? If they were outbid, are we to assume that ATO is flush with cash? Credibility?
Violating human rights? Yes, indeed!
Ben // Jun 9, 2010 at 5:59 pm – 64
On whether PM Abhisit should step down within 1-3 months is debatable but I still think 1-3 months is still achievable. You made it seems like if a PM quite the whole country will collapse, that’s hardly the case since the government still retain the ability to run the day-to-day operation just not making anymore decision or project.
About the democratic value, I dont think we shouldn’t discuss about that since many of the mechanic is not in place, let me reminded you that Thailand had seen a fair amount of bloodshed from the crackdown on democratic movement; 1973, 1976 and 1992. I’m more than certain that people, at least among the poor Thais, are well aware of Democratic value that’s why they felt angry and betrayed in the eve of the 2006 coup, that’s why they came out and demand the dissolution of this government because they felt that there were not being treat fairly since the representative that they elected themselves (Newin’s gang) betrayed them.
Now, the point that you raise about how UK and Canada go about their political play is understandable, but this is not the case with Thailand, where we have so many people and organization that doesn’t hold any accountability to their action and those people can manipulated the legislation and the jurisdiction at will. You just can’t compare UK to Thailand in that sense because we are not even there yet, in term of mechanism.
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
LesAbbey #89
The same group of people from those events are also present in PAD, yellow shirt movement. This argument isn’t very convincing.
Though you may be right about ‘their idea of democracy is far different to mine or much of the west’ part, at least the PAD version of it anyhow.
Violating human rights? Yes, indeed!
Del @56,
I am sorry to toss iced water on the Nation’s article, but as a once professional soldier I have seen many people killed by pistols, M79’s etc and none of the people in the temple were killed by any of those, they were all killed by high powered rounds that came from the barrel of a rifle.
So far in all the videos/photos I have seen only the Thai army armed with these.
To add to this I have seen photos of police investigators (not DSI) using string etc to determine the angle people were shot from in the temple. Three of these photos clearly show that the shots came from up high.
Unfortunately the Nation is no longer a reliable source and lost what little credibility it had left when its editor (Thanong) claimed that Thaksin, had cancer, was dead, was dying of cancer, was sick from chemotherapy, the British government had frozen 4 million pounds etc etc.