After Kukrit established diplomatic ties with China in 1975, able to do so after Nixon and Kissinger’s visits a few years earlier, all US military facilities in Thailand were turned over to the Thais by December of 1975.
The last US airforce personnel left Thailand in July 1976 (other than the advisors at the JUSMAG mission and a small medical research unit).
The war was over, the Thais were finally able to establish ties with the Chinese and there was little reason for any US presence.
Seni and his brother played musical chairs in the PM position in 1975 and 1976 and though it happened to be Seni in the chair when the last of the troops left, I also fail to see how the Americans left Seni hanging in the wind during the events of a few months later.
The most noble thing I have ever experienced in Thailand is an elderly couple on a soi off of Sukumvit who must have been 80 years old, playing a Chinese cello for money, both sitting on the sidewalk in utter humility, wai-ing.
I gave them money thinking they’ve got nothing but each other.
Thanong is off with the fairies again. He appears completely unable to distinguish between what is real and what he would like to be real, thus he confuses to 2 things and witters on in this half-baked way. Sady he is getting a reputation for this sort of thing.
As a clinical psychologist I can say that an inability to differentiate between the external reality which we all see, and some imagined internal vision of reality is the beginning of psychosis.
Someone ought to kick his ass – perhaps that might stimulate the blood flow to his brain. Mind you, he works for the Nation – perhaps that is significant.
I really think that one should leave Thanong alone. Everybody knows that he has serious problems, and that The Nation keeps him in his job out of a laudable sense of social responsibility.
It is not only the Thai military that has a serious capacity/competence problem. In fact, this is an overall problem affecting the civil bureaucracy, academia, the business sectors, and the mass media as well. Do not forget: Thailand is a developing country. This translates into an across-the-board lack if professionalism, competence, effectiveness, and efficiency.
Is New Mandala really a ‘Red’ site as Colin above maintains?
I’ll disagree. Because New Mandala was already running long before the Red movement. New Mandala was born at about the same time Thaksin Shinawatra was on the ungraceful exit . . . and New Mandala conveniently carried on the pro-Thaksin cause . . . which so happens had been ‘sanitized’ as the Red cause lately.
But for the Thaksin hardcores at New Mandala, you’ll all like this take from The Wall Street Journal May 21, 2010 issue:
” . . .People on both sides of Thailand’s political divide with knowledge of the negotiations say that Mr. Thaksin’s interventions–which they say included a number of new demands that ended up slowing the talks intended to end the standoff–delayed an agreement for elections that might have enabled the protesters to call off their monthslong rally. His machinations prompted the most senior Red Shirt negotiator to quit in frustration, according to these people. . . .”
I still suspect a few killed last year, nothing changes my suspicions, but there is no proof either. Therefore i have suspicions based on partly corroborated witness accounts, and not just from Red Shirts.
There are reasons of missing corpses this year. It’s is not just the number but the circumstances that can be quite damning. Yet “hundreds” is an exaggeration.
I quite disagree though on speculating what Thaksin’s “intentions” may or may not have been. Hanging the whole Red Shirt movement on Thaksin’s “intentions” is not logical if you look at the mechanics of this movement, including inner conflicts and decision making processes, especially how the protesters themselves have influenced decision making processes.
Father Joe Meier is a friend of mine since many years. I haven’t read his letter yet. Nevertheless, Father Joe is an expert on all Klong Toey affairs, though not on the political movements of either Red or Yellow.
Dr. Khunying something had something wrong about GT200 please check.
And if you have eye and don’t be to dumb please go to visit the place that Suthep told you that luanch from that’s place you will see a lot of thing that can be interrubt this bomb exp. bridge and sky walk and please check the range for M79 (if that’s be like Suthep said) and go to make meter to BTS station please.
Now just only this thing I’ll ask you again Who can responsibility on every dead people and what they’ve got from the fact. They want to re-election but they’ve got bullet and death if who had died be your friend or your family what is the fact and what do you think about this.
You are quite wrong in your assessment on the recent events.
First of all – on May 19 only one single such militant was shot and killed, the rest were ordinary protesters, guards, a journalist and medics. The “firefights” were quite lopsided, with the military doing most of the firing until the militants (“Black Shirts”) launched a series of grenades against the military (also wounding a journalist) at Sarasin intersection, after which the military was picked up by APC’s and we journalists had to make our own way back through no-man’s land.
There may, or may not have been several other firefights later on, but details are still very sketchy. The temple issue is also still not fully investigated, and we will have to save judgment until more evidence has surfaced.
There never were “hundred’s of heavily armed militants” involved.
There was not only May 19, by the way. The operations began on May 13 in earnest, during which days there were more than a few instances were rules of engagement were clearly broken by the military. The first unarmed protester i have seen killed was at Rama IV just hours after the Sae Daeng assassination (also the EMS vehicle that picked up the corpse was shot at by the army), the following day i have seen several such and a few journos being shot at Wireless, and the day after i was in the middle of the military firing without warning shots directly at protesters (and me) at Rachaprarop Road. Several were killed, many wounded (including a photographer from the Nation), including locals who had nothing to do with the protests.
We do know that the army had a difficult task. There were groups of militants firing at the army. That though does not excuse the army of its own wrongdoings. Of which there were many that the government and the army top-brass now tries to obfuscate.
I would be quite interested after how many deaths you define a crackdown as “bloody” – for me the dozens of killed (still many missing people as well) do fulfill that definition. Yes, it could have been bloodier. But also the ’92 events could have been, if you compare them with Burma ’88, etc.
Here is a post written shortly after the crackdown and reading Andrew Walker’s piece in the WSJ on the plane home. It was pure coincidence that I planned returning to the US during this time.
As I wait to fly home tomorrow, the “final crackdown” is taking place in central Bangkok. Protesters willing to fight to the death are destroying public and private property after a week-long, violent struggle with police and military. After working with the AAN for the past few years, I will be returning to a quiet, peaceful part of the U.S. to grow organic vegetables. These years have also been the start of a new time in Thai politics. Things will probably only get much worse before they get any better.
Before this week of violence began, waiting for a ride to Chiang Mai, I received a few of my daily “TheNation” text messages:
“Royal Ploughing Ceremony Thur., abundant water resources, foods predicted.”
“Govt revoked Nov. 14 general election offer, after UDDs refused to move out of Rajprasong late Wed.”
In Yasothon it has rained three times in the past six months. Farmers who planted a second rice crop now let their cows and buffaloes graze in the paddies, eating dried up young rice plants. This is not the picture of a healthy agro-ecological system. Yet we are promised abundance by the royal cows. There are many things wrong with Thailand’s food and agriculture system – small farmers in Esan face a crisis of livelihood, culture, environment and politics. The irony of the Ploughing Ceremony is both environmental and political – as Thailand is elected to the UN Human Rights Council the government sends troops to kill Thai citizens in the streets. As I exchanged some cash at one of the bank branches in the airport, the teller asked me how I would explain the current crisis to people in America. I told him it would take some time to explain the background and certain complexities not reported in the mainstream media. He responded immediately, “and tell them that these people aren’t Thais.” This must be how the government views the Reds as well.
Of course joining with the Red shirts would be appealing or hopeful to those who saw Thaksin come out to find the people and actually enact policies. Now, as I write, the Rajprasong area of Bangkok, a space symbolic of both Thaksin’s “CEO” approach to governance and the massive inequalities still present in Thai society, has been taken back by the government.
As people are murdered by the military, we must speak out against this injustice. The government is staying in power through violence – a massacre is currently taking place. Reds are responding, destroying public and private property in Bangkok, Udon and Khon Kaen. The city hall in Khon Kaen is up in flames and villagers are fighting with the police.
As a network, movement and organization, the Alternative Agriculture Network (AAN) doesn’t yet have enough mass to change society. We agree with the need for structural change in the government. Thailand’s non-transparent wealth-accumulation without good governance or citizen’s equality is part of a long-term economic crisis. This political crisis is short-term by comparison – the expansion of private capital into rural Thailand is a trend that has destroyed local peoples’ opportunity and has fueled the anger of many struggling people in Esan.
Over the long-term, this “rural transformation” has brought a response from “civil society advocates…but many of them got sidetracked by their anti-capitalist agenda and constructed an anachronistic stereotype of communal lifestyles and subsistence-oriented farming. This compounded the middle-income peasantry’s cultural marginalization.” Andrew Walker rightly points out that Thai civil society has lost it’s chance to be a bigger voice for social change. But I have come to understand that the AAN orients itself towards creating sustainable livelihoods together with small farmers. This is a process of empowerment that both political movements lack. These farm-based livelihoods are also closely connected to alternative markets that support local, fair systems of connecting producers to urban consumers. This is not a subsistence-orientation, but a recognition of farmers’ interdependence with markets. AAN farmers are actively building networks and strengthening community.
Perhaps we are idealist, with little reach thus far. But for farmers themselves to take a stand against the injustices inherent to Thailand’s economy is to actively promote a progressive agenda aimed at raising awareness in society while supporting farmers rights to food and livelihood. In this “modern rural world of contract farming,” this is activism at it’s best – a problematic system in which agribusiness like CP has benefited and left farmers with new risk and more debt is openly criticized by small fish, sugarcane, vegetable and pig farmers and in response, sustainable practices are developed as solutions to this problematic system. Dissatisfaction with government policy is meaningless without proposals based in concrete alternatives – civil society and Red shirts agree on the need for reform, but the AAN believes that an alternative future is possible.
A different kind of development is possible: a development that empowers local communities to participate in the political and infrastructural changes taking place, values educational institutions as civic centers for next generation of community leaders (and not private investment opportunities) and supports an integrated rural economy with a genuinely local food system. 80% of Thailand’s farmers are small scale – are we going to work to support these communities or sit back and watch this injustice continue?
Can I just twist Thanon ‘s comment a bit so it will make a perfect sense?
But our King has failed us by pursuing his narrow interests above those of the country. We no longer recognise the strength and merit of our country because he embraces nihilism and decadence and the craving for material gain and power.
For starters, there is (deliberate?) confusion over being king of Suvarnabhumi and Thailand. Last time I checked I believe it was only Thailand, Suv. being a term loosely used for a large portion of SE Asia in the past. Thailand is stated as being the centre of Suv. but where in the history books does it state that? The only place I have seen mentioned as the possible origin (centre) of the term is Lower Burma.
Please someone direct me to the theory that the next Buddha will come to live in Thailand!
Or did I miss him and he has arrived working undercover for the TAT!
And what on earth is this concept of ” Chat” – nationhood through the sacred land of Suvarnabhumi.
In other words for this article a translator might be in order.
The final death toll may be quite higher than the official number, many protesters are still missing, and there is increasing evidence of missing corpses in several areas of combat.
Well Nick at least you are consistent and I hope wrong again. You were suspecting missing bodies last year as well. Jim Taylor has the army throwing a hundred bodies into the burning Central World. This time I can see no gain for the government or the army on hiding bodies. Whether the count is 88 or 188 the PR damage has been done, which was the intention of Thaksin some of us may think.
If there is a worry it would be with arrested red shirts in army custody, but it’s hard to see an army motivation to kill prisoners unless of course they have some of the grenade firing tahan prahn. In that case revenge would be the motivation, but producing them for trial would better politically.
Nick have you read the letter from the priest Joe Maier at the Mercy Mission in Klong Toey yet? I’m hoping Andrew will publish it in a post I made. If not I would like to have your take on it as you spent so much time at the protest.
I’m surprised you didn’t know before hand about Chamlong’s road to Damascus moment while serving in Laos I think, where Thai troops were helping the Americans, for which you can read CIA.
He became a fervent Buddhist and renounced wealth in many ways. That added to his popularity. As a teacher in the military academy he also had a following among young officers.
The downside is that in many ways he is a religious extremist and has some rather crazy and unpleasant ideas, which is probably why he lost his second run at being Bangkok Governor. At the same time it’s hard to find anyone saying he is either dishonest or corrupt in Bangkok. He reluctantly joined the PAD after Thaksin, who he introduced to politics, refused to pay tax on the gains from the telecoms sale to Singapore government owned company.
As for 1992 I suspect it would be equally hard to find anyone who said he showed anything except bravery and that the outcome of not having Suchinda as prime minister would have occurred without his leadership.
And yes, he has said many of the things he did before his Damascus moment were evil.
LesAbbey (47). I remeber how your lot used to slag off about Newin, but now that you’ve bought him off and he’s one of your own– dead silence. There’s a word for this.
Yes RN there is a word for it. It’s dishonesty.
First you will not be able to find a comment with me slagging off Newin in particular except for possibly this one. Second, I have very little time for the provincial politicians like Newin and I must add, many in the Democrats. They are usually from local influential families, often local Thai-Chinese merchant families and sometimes very mafia like in their outlook.
Also RN quite what you mean by “your lot” I’m not at all sure. Do you mean anyone who disagrees with Thaksin, or the red shirts, or even those like Red Siam who don’t agree with the red shirt leadership? How about Veera, is he part of “your lot” now after breaking with the hardliners?
Anyone an little apology is due for your little dishonesty, but up to you.
I think Nuomi was saying this is a Red leaning site so why would a Yellow come here, especially when they cannot bring anything other than Monarchy politics to the table for debate. So basically, this is a Red site if you don’t like it leave.
Nuomi,
Hitler used the Jews to propagate hatred and fear. Look at what Hitler did once in power, in hind sight maybe easy to see, but who were his easiest followers to brainwash? Thaksin is a criminal and if he was not in exile these demonstrations and the UDD would not exist…and your disparity of wealth may have even be worse than it is today. So basically, you refuse to acknowledge Thaksin as an argument in the ordeal, how can anyone argue with your logic…maybe all Yellow’s should just resort to nasty insults?
Tell me more about the disparity of the poor and corruption in Thailand please!!!
Khun Thanong personifies idelogical repression of the system based on propaganda and censorship. He abuses his Buddhist allegiances in a way similar to Marxist-Leninist demagogues of the past and present.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Thanong on King Bhumibol
Can’t really argue with his final point though:
“In the end, we have to look into the mirror to see the worst enemy of the land. Yes, the worst enemy of this land is us.”
Sondhi – return parliamentary powers to the king
Chris Beale @37 &
BKK lawyer @ 39
After Kukrit established diplomatic ties with China in 1975, able to do so after Nixon and Kissinger’s visits a few years earlier, all US military facilities in Thailand were turned over to the Thais by December of 1975.
The last US airforce personnel left Thailand in July 1976 (other than the advisors at the JUSMAG mission and a small medical research unit).
The war was over, the Thais were finally able to establish ties with the Chinese and there was little reason for any US presence.
Seni and his brother played musical chairs in the PM position in 1975 and 1976 and though it happened to be Seni in the chair when the last of the troops left, I also fail to see how the Americans left Seni hanging in the wind during the events of a few months later.
Thanong on King Bhumibol
I don’t think we can say anything much with 112 hanging over our heads.
Thanong on King Bhumibol
The most noble thing I have ever experienced in Thailand is an elderly couple on a soi off of Sukumvit who must have been 80 years old, playing a Chinese cello for money, both sitting on the sidewalk in utter humility, wai-ing.
I gave them money thinking they’ve got nothing but each other.
Walking away I thought, “and that’s a lot…”
Thanong on King Bhumibol
Thanong is off with the fairies again. He appears completely unable to distinguish between what is real and what he would like to be real, thus he confuses to 2 things and witters on in this half-baked way. Sady he is getting a reputation for this sort of thing.
As a clinical psychologist I can say that an inability to differentiate between the external reality which we all see, and some imagined internal vision of reality is the beginning of psychosis.
Someone ought to kick his ass – perhaps that might stimulate the blood flow to his brain. Mind you, he works for the Nation – perhaps that is significant.
Thanong on King Bhumibol
I really think that one should leave Thanong alone. Everybody knows that he has serious problems, and that The Nation keeps him in his job out of a laudable sense of social responsibility.
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
Doyle49
It is not only the Thai military that has a serious capacity/competence problem. In fact, this is an overall problem affecting the civil bureaucracy, academia, the business sectors, and the mass media as well. Do not forget: Thailand is a developing country. This translates into an across-the-board lack if professionalism, competence, effectiveness, and efficiency.
Thailand in crisis – ANU video series
Is New Mandala really a ‘Red’ site as Colin above maintains?
I’ll disagree. Because New Mandala was already running long before the Red movement. New Mandala was born at about the same time Thaksin Shinawatra was on the ungraceful exit . . . and New Mandala conveniently carried on the pro-Thaksin cause . . . which so happens had been ‘sanitized’ as the Red cause lately.
But for the Thaksin hardcores at New Mandala, you’ll all like this take from The Wall Street Journal May 21, 2010 issue:
” . . .People on both sides of Thailand’s political divide with knowledge of the negotiations say that Mr. Thaksin’s interventions–which they say included a number of new demands that ended up slowing the talks intended to end the standoff–delayed an agreement for elections that might have enabled the protesters to call off their monthslong rally. His machinations prompted the most senior Red Shirt negotiator to quit in frustration, according to these people. . . .”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704852004575257790134925082.html?mod=WSJ_World_LeadStory
Translation: Thaksin Shinawatra was responsible for every blood spilled during the Reds-protests-turned-rebellion in Black May of year 2010.
Thanong on King Bhumibol
Well in posting from the censored centre of Suvarnabhumi I can only add that the last sentence in the full article is spot on (if not rhetorical).
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
“LesAbbey”:
I still suspect a few killed last year, nothing changes my suspicions, but there is no proof either. Therefore i have suspicions based on partly corroborated witness accounts, and not just from Red Shirts.
There are reasons of missing corpses this year. It’s is not just the number but the circumstances that can be quite damning. Yet “hundreds” is an exaggeration.
I quite disagree though on speculating what Thaksin’s “intentions” may or may not have been. Hanging the whole Red Shirt movement on Thaksin’s “intentions” is not logical if you look at the mechanics of this movement, including inner conflicts and decision making processes, especially how the protesters themselves have influenced decision making processes.
Father Joe Meier is a friend of mine since many years. I haven’t read his letter yet. Nevertheless, Father Joe is an expert on all Klong Toey affairs, though not on the political movements of either Red or Yellow.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Simonsays #226
Dr. Khunying something had something wrong about GT200 please check.
And if you have eye and don’t be to dumb please go to visit the place that Suthep told you that luanch from that’s place you will see a lot of thing that can be interrubt this bomb exp. bridge and sky walk and please check the range for M79 (if that’s be like Suthep said) and go to make meter to BTS station please.
Now just only this thing I’ll ask you again Who can responsibility on every dead people and what they’ve got from the fact. They want to re-election but they’ve got bullet and death if who had died be your friend or your family what is the fact and what do you think about this.
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
“Matt Grant”:
You are quite wrong in your assessment on the recent events.
First of all – on May 19 only one single such militant was shot and killed, the rest were ordinary protesters, guards, a journalist and medics. The “firefights” were quite lopsided, with the military doing most of the firing until the militants (“Black Shirts”) launched a series of grenades against the military (also wounding a journalist) at Sarasin intersection, after which the military was picked up by APC’s and we journalists had to make our own way back through no-man’s land.
There may, or may not have been several other firefights later on, but details are still very sketchy. The temple issue is also still not fully investigated, and we will have to save judgment until more evidence has surfaced.
There never were “hundred’s of heavily armed militants” involved.
There was not only May 19, by the way. The operations began on May 13 in earnest, during which days there were more than a few instances were rules of engagement were clearly broken by the military. The first unarmed protester i have seen killed was at Rama IV just hours after the Sae Daeng assassination (also the EMS vehicle that picked up the corpse was shot at by the army), the following day i have seen several such and a few journos being shot at Wireless, and the day after i was in the middle of the military firing without warning shots directly at protesters (and me) at Rachaprarop Road. Several were killed, many wounded (including a photographer from the Nation), including locals who had nothing to do with the protests.
We do know that the army had a difficult task. There were groups of militants firing at the army. That though does not excuse the army of its own wrongdoings. Of which there were many that the government and the army top-brass now tries to obfuscate.
I would be quite interested after how many deaths you define a crackdown as “bloody” – for me the dozens of killed (still many missing people as well) do fulfill that definition. Yes, it could have been bloodier. But also the ’92 events could have been, if you compare them with Burma ’88, etc.
Commentary on roots of the Thai crisis
Here is a post written shortly after the crackdown and reading Andrew Walker’s piece in the WSJ on the plane home. It was pure coincidence that I planned returning to the US during this time.
From http://aanesan.wordpress.com/2010/05/26/reflections-upon-return-aan-the-thai-crisis/
As I wait to fly home tomorrow, the “final crackdown” is taking place in central Bangkok. Protesters willing to fight to the death are destroying public and private property after a week-long, violent struggle with police and military. After working with the AAN for the past few years, I will be returning to a quiet, peaceful part of the U.S. to grow organic vegetables. These years have also been the start of a new time in Thai politics. Things will probably only get much worse before they get any better.
Before this week of violence began, waiting for a ride to Chiang Mai, I received a few of my daily “TheNation” text messages:
“Royal Ploughing Ceremony Thur., abundant water resources, foods predicted.”
“Govt revoked Nov. 14 general election offer, after UDDs refused to move out of Rajprasong late Wed.”
In Yasothon it has rained three times in the past six months. Farmers who planted a second rice crop now let their cows and buffaloes graze in the paddies, eating dried up young rice plants. This is not the picture of a healthy agro-ecological system. Yet we are promised abundance by the royal cows. There are many things wrong with Thailand’s food and agriculture system – small farmers in Esan face a crisis of livelihood, culture, environment and politics. The irony of the Ploughing Ceremony is both environmental and political – as Thailand is elected to the UN Human Rights Council the government sends troops to kill Thai citizens in the streets. As I exchanged some cash at one of the bank branches in the airport, the teller asked me how I would explain the current crisis to people in America. I told him it would take some time to explain the background and certain complexities not reported in the mainstream media. He responded immediately, “and tell them that these people aren’t Thais.” This must be how the government views the Reds as well.
Of course joining with the Red shirts would be appealing or hopeful to those who saw Thaksin come out to find the people and actually enact policies. Now, as I write, the Rajprasong area of Bangkok, a space symbolic of both Thaksin’s “CEO” approach to governance and the massive inequalities still present in Thai society, has been taken back by the government.
As people are murdered by the military, we must speak out against this injustice. The government is staying in power through violence – a massacre is currently taking place. Reds are responding, destroying public and private property in Bangkok, Udon and Khon Kaen. The city hall in Khon Kaen is up in flames and villagers are fighting with the police.
As a network, movement and organization, the Alternative Agriculture Network (AAN) doesn’t yet have enough mass to change society. We agree with the need for structural change in the government. Thailand’s non-transparent wealth-accumulation without good governance or citizen’s equality is part of a long-term economic crisis. This political crisis is short-term by comparison – the expansion of private capital into rural Thailand is a trend that has destroyed local peoples’ opportunity and has fueled the anger of many struggling people in Esan.
Over the long-term, this “rural transformation” has brought a response from “civil society advocates…but many of them got sidetracked by their anti-capitalist agenda and constructed an anachronistic stereotype of communal lifestyles and subsistence-oriented farming. This compounded the middle-income peasantry’s cultural marginalization.” Andrew Walker rightly points out that Thai civil society has lost it’s chance to be a bigger voice for social change. But I have come to understand that the AAN orients itself towards creating sustainable livelihoods together with small farmers. This is a process of empowerment that both political movements lack. These farm-based livelihoods are also closely connected to alternative markets that support local, fair systems of connecting producers to urban consumers. This is not a subsistence-orientation, but a recognition of farmers’ interdependence with markets. AAN farmers are actively building networks and strengthening community.
Perhaps we are idealist, with little reach thus far. But for farmers themselves to take a stand against the injustices inherent to Thailand’s economy is to actively promote a progressive agenda aimed at raising awareness in society while supporting farmers rights to food and livelihood. In this “modern rural world of contract farming,” this is activism at it’s best – a problematic system in which agribusiness like CP has benefited and left farmers with new risk and more debt is openly criticized by small fish, sugarcane, vegetable and pig farmers and in response, sustainable practices are developed as solutions to this problematic system. Dissatisfaction with government policy is meaningless without proposals based in concrete alternatives – civil society and Red shirts agree on the need for reform, but the AAN believes that an alternative future is possible.
A different kind of development is possible: a development that empowers local communities to participate in the political and infrastructural changes taking place, values educational institutions as civic centers for next generation of community leaders (and not private investment opportunities) and supports an integrated rural economy with a genuinely local food system. 80% of Thailand’s farmers are small scale – are we going to work to support these communities or sit back and watch this injustice continue?
Thanong on King Bhumibol
Can I just twist Thanon ‘s comment a bit so it will make a perfect sense?
But our King has failed us by pursuing his narrow interests above those of the country. We no longer recognise the strength and merit of our country because he embraces nihilism and decadence and the craving for material gain and power.
Thanong on King Bhumibol
For starters, there is (deliberate?) confusion over being king of Suvarnabhumi and Thailand. Last time I checked I believe it was only Thailand, Suv. being a term loosely used for a large portion of SE Asia in the past. Thailand is stated as being the centre of Suv. but where in the history books does it state that? The only place I have seen mentioned as the possible origin (centre) of the term is Lower Burma.
Please someone direct me to the theory that the next Buddha will come to live in Thailand!
Or did I miss him and he has arrived working undercover for the TAT!
And what on earth is this concept of ” Chat” – nationhood through the sacred land of Suvarnabhumi.
In other words for this article a translator might be in order.
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
Nick Nostitz – 48
The final death toll may be quite higher than the official number, many protesters are still missing, and there is increasing evidence of missing corpses in several areas of combat.
Well Nick at least you are consistent and I hope wrong again. You were suspecting missing bodies last year as well. Jim Taylor has the army throwing a hundred bodies into the burning Central World. This time I can see no gain for the government or the army on hiding bodies. Whether the count is 88 or 188 the PR damage has been done, which was the intention of Thaksin some of us may think.
If there is a worry it would be with arrested red shirts in army custody, but it’s hard to see an army motivation to kill prisoners unless of course they have some of the grenade firing tahan prahn. In that case revenge would be the motivation, but producing them for trial would better politically.
Nick have you read the letter from the priest Joe Maier at the Mercy Mission in Klong Toey yet? I’m hoping Andrew will publish it in a post I made. If not I would like to have your take on it as you spent so much time at the protest.
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
David Brown – 52
I’m surprised you didn’t know before hand about Chamlong’s road to Damascus moment while serving in Laos I think, where Thai troops were helping the Americans, for which you can read CIA.
He became a fervent Buddhist and renounced wealth in many ways. That added to his popularity. As a teacher in the military academy he also had a following among young officers.
The downside is that in many ways he is a religious extremist and has some rather crazy and unpleasant ideas, which is probably why he lost his second run at being Bangkok Governor. At the same time it’s hard to find anyone saying he is either dishonest or corrupt in Bangkok. He reluctantly joined the PAD after Thaksin, who he introduced to politics, refused to pay tax on the gains from the telecoms sale to Singapore government owned company.
As for 1992 I suspect it would be equally hard to find anyone who said he showed anything except bravery and that the outcome of not having Suchinda as prime minister would have occurred without his leadership.
And yes, he has said many of the things he did before his Damascus moment were evil.
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
R. N. England – 50
LesAbbey (47). I remeber how your lot used to slag off about Newin, but now that you’ve bought him off and he’s one of your own– dead silence. There’s a word for this.
Yes RN there is a word for it. It’s dishonesty.
First you will not be able to find a comment with me slagging off Newin in particular except for possibly this one. Second, I have very little time for the provincial politicians like Newin and I must add, many in the Democrats. They are usually from local influential families, often local Thai-Chinese merchant families and sometimes very mafia like in their outlook.
Also RN quite what you mean by “your lot” I’m not at all sure. Do you mean anyone who disagrees with Thaksin, or the red shirts, or even those like Red Siam who don’t agree with the red shirt leadership? How about Veera, is he part of “your lot” now after breaking with the hardliners?
Anyone an little apology is due for your little dishonesty, but up to you.
Thailand in crisis – ANU video series
Les Abbey,
I think Nuomi was saying this is a Red leaning site so why would a Yellow come here, especially when they cannot bring anything other than Monarchy politics to the table for debate. So basically, this is a Red site if you don’t like it leave.
Nuomi,
Hitler used the Jews to propagate hatred and fear. Look at what Hitler did once in power, in hind sight maybe easy to see, but who were his easiest followers to brainwash? Thaksin is a criminal and if he was not in exile these demonstrations and the UDD would not exist…and your disparity of wealth may have even be worse than it is today. So basically, you refuse to acknowledge Thaksin as an argument in the ordeal, how can anyone argue with your logic…maybe all Yellow’s should just resort to nasty insults?
Tell me more about the disparity of the poor and corruption in Thailand please!!!
Thanong on King Bhumibol
Khun Thanong personifies idelogical repression of the system based on propaganda and censorship. He abuses his Buddhist allegiances in a way similar to Marxist-Leninist demagogues of the past and present.