Thank you. This article was very well written and informative, particularly the coverage about the Southerners’ strong personal loyalty to former PM Chuan Leekpai, and how this factor seems to be the lynchpin of Democrat party support in the South. Also, the contrast in the voters’ minds between what Barnhan Silpa-archa was able to deliver for his home province of Suphanburi versus the lack of tangible rewards provided to them in the form of public works by their own local Southern Democrat politicians was especially telling, and suggests that a disillusionment has set in about continuing their lockstep one-party loyalty. In brief, the sentiment appears to be widespread that they feel taken for granted by the Bangkok elite.
Up to that point, I was optimistic about what I was reading for the future of Thai politics, because if they can focus on the typical politics of horse trading and porkbarrel then there could be some hope for things returning to some level of normalcy. However, that all changed when I read how the tone of the discussion and atmosphere was poisoned following the crackdown and Abhisit’s new policy of “Prab-Pram” (Suppression). At that point the political debate became one-sided and dominated by the radical opinions of a few, who are being informed by watching ASTV news. In my mind this is a lot like what happens to Americans when they get all of their news from FOX News: they stop listening to messages that do not fit with the propaganda and only seek to reinforce their own bigotries and prejudices. This leaves me pessimistic about any reconciliation in the near future for the North-South divide, which may only become more pronounced in the months ahead.
better that the chinese are doing aid than the west. most of the funds that go into laos are just there to support the NGO staff themselves and members of the communist party. the NGO staff with their western salaries and hardship allowances live in luxury and the communists are enjoying manna from heaven. nobody wants to rock the boat so nobody complains, but nothing is ever done there. they do the same study over and over again and make the same recommendations over and over again. it’s an endless cycle that benefits everybody concerned except the people of laos.
Yesterday I have called up the Ministry of ICT, and asked for an explanation of the blocking. A very nice and reasonable man called me back, and promised to try to get my article unblocked. Which seems to have worked.
Within the Northern diaspora you can also find antipathy from northern Thais usually in outlying or southerly Northern areas towards the Chaing Mai based central Lanna notion of Northern culture. Often those that speak the northern dialect with harsher tones and differing usage and whose other cultural norms vary from what is regarded as Northern by whoever decides on these things are quite hostile to the definiton of northern originating from the center of the ex-lanna empire.
While there are notions of discrimination from Bangkok ibn these areas, there are also notions that those who have seized ownership of what it is to be Northern also regard many actual northerners who dont exaclty fit the stereotype as second class Northerners.
Interesting topic which is of much interest to discuss around various places in the North and among northern groups that can be found outside of the North.
I will mention this material to my Octoberist mates next time I have a drink with them. I am sure the notion of him being a possible unnoticed hero will be of great interest.
Very good post. It would be a positive development if the West could reevaluate its general attitude towards development. Trying to impose western values (such as feminism and multiculturalism) either by “hard power” or “soft power” really isn’t the way to go. Ideally, there should be a meeting of the minds where Asians and westerners (including “NGO’s”) meet somewhere in the middle, such as around environmental issues and sustainable development and agree to scrap the rest, like most of the “human rights” agenda.
TOT has unblocked the original post this morning. Someone saw sense. Blocking this thread was counter-productive and an embarrassment to the government you work for.
Yes, what principles are involved? Are you implying that the West’s principles are somehow better than China’s? If so, you ought to list them! I can’t.. It all seems fairly vacuous. What about Thailand whose economic involvement (acc. to the IMF) with Laos easily surpasses Vietnam six fold and surpasses that of China by around a fifth… ? Why would the Lao govt approve anything it would feel delegitimizes their rule?
In Laos, meanwhile, our respondent highlighted the fact that government leaders will act unilaterally, outside of its own checks and balances when it deems this politically or economically necessary. Of course? What government with limited public accountability wouldnt?
The role of the Western aid sector will be increasingly limited because they don’t contribute nearly as much as the surrounding countries to Laos. And nor should they – save being asked. Too many cooks in the kitchen. Western aid to Laos should be focused more on educational exchanges.
I guess their “Big Brothers” in Bangkok let them down, eh? Their Big Brothers in Bangkok are more closely related to the Chinese and Vietnamese than to the Tai-Lao of Lao itself, and have “let down” the people of Lanna and Isaan recently as well.
As far as the West is concerned, the loss of very pleasant, comfortable, and well-paid NGO jobs in Lao will be a very tough loss.
The Lao themselves will continue to suffer through, no matter the machinations of their exploiters.
[…] that this important post by Nick Nostitz appears to have been blocked by the Thai government, we are posting it again here. [UPDATE: and the Thai translation is […]
This sounds like the typical problem in Thailands political system.
There are no political parties. Just persons and they only stand for their own (frequently changing) opinions. No political program, no political parliamentary groups. Nothing like this since the annihilation of the thai communist party.
That’s the answer why politics in Thailand is so bad!
Report from the South: From the day of Prong-Dong (Harmony) to the day of Prab-Pram (Suppression)
Thank you. This article was very well written and informative, particularly the coverage about the Southerners’ strong personal loyalty to former PM Chuan Leekpai, and how this factor seems to be the lynchpin of Democrat party support in the South. Also, the contrast in the voters’ minds between what Barnhan Silpa-archa was able to deliver for his home province of Suphanburi versus the lack of tangible rewards provided to them in the form of public works by their own local Southern Democrat politicians was especially telling, and suggests that a disillusionment has set in about continuing their lockstep one-party loyalty. In brief, the sentiment appears to be widespread that they feel taken for granted by the Bangkok elite.
Up to that point, I was optimistic about what I was reading for the future of Thai politics, because if they can focus on the typical politics of horse trading and porkbarrel then there could be some hope for things returning to some level of normalcy. However, that all changed when I read how the tone of the discussion and atmosphere was poisoned following the crackdown and Abhisit’s new policy of “Prab-Pram” (Suppression). At that point the political debate became one-sided and dominated by the radical opinions of a few, who are being informed by watching ASTV news. In my mind this is a lot like what happens to Americans when they get all of their news from FOX News: they stop listening to messages that do not fit with the propaganda and only seek to reinforce their own bigotries and prejudices. This leaves me pessimistic about any reconciliation in the near future for the North-South divide, which may only become more pronounced in the months ahead.
The Western aid sector in Laos – days numbered?
better that the chinese are doing aid than the west. most of the funds that go into laos are just there to support the NGO staff themselves and members of the communist party. the NGO staff with their western salaries and hardship allowances live in luxury and the communists are enjoying manna from heaven. nobody wants to rock the boat so nobody complains, but nothing is ever done there. they do the same study over and over again and make the same recommendations over and over again. it’s an endless cycle that benefits everybody concerned except the people of laos.
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
“LesAbbey”:
Yesterday I have called up the Ministry of ICT, and asked for an explanation of the blocking. A very nice and reasonable man called me back, and promised to try to get my article unblocked. Which seems to have worked.
Hero or villain? The life of Samak
When Samak was Prime Minister, I actually began to miss Thaksin.
From the archives: Northern Thai sentiments
Within the Northern diaspora you can also find antipathy from northern Thais usually in outlying or southerly Northern areas towards the Chaing Mai based central Lanna notion of Northern culture. Often those that speak the northern dialect with harsher tones and differing usage and whose other cultural norms vary from what is regarded as Northern by whoever decides on these things are quite hostile to the definiton of northern originating from the center of the ex-lanna empire.
While there are notions of discrimination from Bangkok ibn these areas, there are also notions that those who have seized ownership of what it is to be Northern also regard many actual northerners who dont exaclty fit the stereotype as second class Northerners.
Interesting topic which is of much interest to discuss around various places in the North and among northern groups that can be found outside of the North.
Hero or villain? The life of Samak
I will mention this material to my Octoberist mates next time I have a drink with them. I am sure the notion of him being a possible unnoticed hero will be of great interest.
Report from the South: From the day of Prong-Dong (Harmony) to the day of Prab-Pram (Suppression)
This government should carry out the same operation: claiming the territory back, in the South as they did at Rajprasong.
Hero or villain? The life of Samak
Samak should appear more often on the screen of the Parliament and put the present prime minister in his place.
The Western aid sector in Laos – days numbered?
Very good post. It would be a positive development if the West could reevaluate its general attitude towards development. Trying to impose western values (such as feminism and multiculturalism) either by “hard power” or “soft power” really isn’t the way to go. Ideally, there should be a meeting of the minds where Asians and westerners (including “NGO’s”) meet somewhere in the middle, such as around environmental issues and sustainable development and agree to scrap the rest, like most of the “human rights” agenda.
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
TOT has unblocked the original post this morning. Someone saw sense. Blocking this thread was counter-productive and an embarrassment to the government you work for.
The Western aid sector in Laos – days numbered?
Yes, what principles are involved? Are you implying that the West’s principles are somehow better than China’s? If so, you ought to list them! I can’t.. It all seems fairly vacuous. What about Thailand whose economic involvement (acc. to the IMF) with Laos easily surpasses Vietnam six fold and surpasses that of China by around a fifth… ? Why would the Lao govt approve anything it would feel delegitimizes their rule?
In Laos, meanwhile, our respondent highlighted the fact that government leaders will act unilaterally, outside of its own checks and balances when it deems this politically or economically necessary. Of course? What government with limited public accountability wouldnt?
The role of the Western aid sector will be increasingly limited because they don’t contribute nearly as much as the surrounding countries to Laos. And nor should they – save being asked. Too many cooks in the kitchen. Western aid to Laos should be focused more on educational exchanges.
Hero or villain? The life of Samak
I once had the pleasure of being quite rude to Samak. I suspect it will stay a pleasure no matter what revisionist history is written.
The Western aid sector in Laos – days numbered?
I guess their “Big Brothers” in Bangkok let them down, eh? Their Big Brothers in Bangkok are more closely related to the Chinese and Vietnamese than to the Tai-Lao of Lao itself, and have “let down” the people of Lanna and Isaan recently as well.
As far as the West is concerned, the loss of very pleasant, comfortable, and well-paid NGO jobs in Lao will be a very tough loss.
The Lao themselves will continue to suffer through, no matter the machinations of their exploiters.
From the archives: Northern Thai sentiments
Is it any different anywhere else in Thailand outside the Imperial City?
Lao development on track?
[…] month I wrote a short post on the announcement that China will fund a railway in Laos. Drawing a parallel with French […]
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
[…] want to have a look at this recent report from Prachatai. It deals with the blocking of “In the killing zone” by Nick Nostitz (re-posted […]
Is 2 trillion baht populist enough?
“compared with defence ministries in neighbouring countries, Thailand spent less on military affairs”
Compared to Burma, no doubt this is true. They’re working hard on correcting the imbalance, though.
Is 2 trillion baht populist enough?
Leopold – It was Bunharn,
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
[…] that this important post by Nick Nostitz appears to have been blocked by the Thai government, we are posting it again here. [UPDATE: and the Thai translation is […]
Report from the South: From the day of Prong-Dong (Harmony) to the day of Prab-Pram (Suppression)
This sounds like the typical problem in Thailands political system.
There are no political parties. Just persons and they only stand for their own (frequently changing) opinions. No political program, no political parliamentary groups. Nothing like this since the annihilation of the thai communist party.
That’s the answer why politics in Thailand is so bad!