I would suggest not derailing the discussion any further than already, and stick to the topic.
Apologies Nick for bringing up Thaksin who obviously has nothing to do with recent events. What I was trying to say, on topic I guess, is that Abhisit hasn’t thrown any of the Western journalists out for their coverage. That in itself is positive when we compare Thailand to its neighbours I suspect. The fact that Abhisit spoke with you is again positive. All this does tend to remove the “Thailand equals Burma” line being peddled by some. (I know not by you and I admire your accuracy in reporting what you saw.)
To Superanonymous, yes I should have said for those that weren’t around that the two FEER journalists were not in the end expelled although that was the original government decision.
Seems you are not from the USA, land of the first amendment and do not believe in freedom of speech.
Could you kindly post the weblinks to the videos which so offended you? Have the links been blocked by the censors?
Well isn’t this what all these political machinations over the past two years is all about, the issue of succession. And just which faction within the palace is backing Sondhi? This becomes all a bit frightening considering the rumored violence that has already occurred between the competing palace factions.
I have only met but a single person who was personally familiar with all the primary palace actors, the late former BBC Southeast Asian corespondent, Ms. Judy, and her observations of the Royal family was that there was not a bright bulb in the bunch. Having attended one of Sondhi’s US lectures in the fall of 2009 at the University of Washington, and heard his callous remarks about the rural populace, the type of derogatory remarks referred to in Prof. Keyes recent letter to an editor, well Sondhi’s remarks just send shivers up my spine.
Sounds to me like another horror from The Cabinet of Dr. Chai-anan-igari.
BTW, has anyone had the time to compare this “official” version with the actual address delivered by Sondhi? I’m not alleging anything, but I’ve always been curious to what extent the PAD crowd might be “revising” history. Does anyone know of any examples of that? Any apostates airbrushed out of photos?
Let me begin by saying that Thaksin was and is a “bad man.”
He did not respect democratic procedure when he was in power; he used his political power to enrich himself, his family and select members of his government and of his wider group of “friends”.
He initiated violence against farmers who dared to protest against his policy decisions, he ramped up the Southern problem by increasing state violence there, and he was responsible for the deaths and human rights abuses of the War on Drugs.
It would be insane to deny any of this, just as it would be to suggest that these horrors are all he was responsible for as PM of Thailand.
The Redshirts are a pro-democracy, anti-dictatorship movement in part, possibly in great part, funded by Thaksin and lead, in part, by present and former Thaksin associates; many of the Red rank and file are Thaksin supporters who would love to see him back at the helm of the country. These too are things that cannot be denied.
And Thaksin’s motives for backing this movement and playing whatever leadership role he plays in it are no doubt as venal and as indifferent to democracy as an ideal as were many of his actions when he was PM. It’s doubtful that any leopard’s spot-changing miracles have taken place over the past four years.
I hope I haven’t left out anything significant, because I suspect that, if I haven’t, the anti-Red posters on this thread, and just about every other similar thread on every Thailand-related web-board, will have absolutely nothing to say in opposition to what I have said and have to say.
That is unless, of course, they are willing to come out of the closet and admit that they are quite simply anti-democracy and pro-dictatorship, much like the PAD and the numerous elements in the media and the wider middle and upper classes in Thailand who abhor the thought of what democracy would mean in this country.
Like every functioning democracy on the face of planet the Redshirt movement is a complex and far from ethically pure phenomenon, but to claim that they are not at all interested in democracy is the height of absurdity, if for no other reason than that it flies in the face of the “it’s all about Thaksin” meme that has been in viral overdrive in Thailand since September 20th, 2006.
Even if we accept the blanket denials of what tens of thousands of Thais have “said” by rallying with the UDD, and agree that all this is and has been about Thaksin and nothing else, there remains the sticky issue of Thaksin or a proxy/avatar of Thaksin needing to win an election to get what he and they want.
In other words, unlike the present regime whose very existence as such is dependent on the Royal Thai Army and the “Palace” that it is so loudly and hysterically committed to “defending”, the Reds are 100% dependent on democratic process to get into power. They need an election.
When they say they want Abhisit out and to force an election they mean just that, hence the anti-dictatorship, pro-democracy slant of everything they say and do. To suggest otherwise is to fly in the face of a rather simple reality: the only road open to Thaksin and his phuak to return to power is to somehow contrive to have democracy, such as it has been in Thailand, re-instituted.
I don’t accept this “It’s all about Thaksin” view of the Reds, but even if I did, I would have to side with those demanding democratic elections and give my support to people, like the Reds, who would have to allow themselves to be “used” by Thaksin in order to use him to engineer a democratic system in Thailand.
And that would not and does not make me a “Thaksin supporter”; it simply means that I accept and believe that democracy, with all its imperfections, is better than any of the alternatives, even in Thailand. It also means that I am a Thai people supporter and respect utterly their right to choose who they will be governed by, whether or not their choices would reflect my values and aspirations.
Like all the other non-Thais engaged in this debate, I can always pack up and go home if I don’t like what an electoral majority of Thais finally make of Thailand when they are empowered to do so.
I don’t think I’ll be doing anything of the kind, but not having that option is really what popular sovereignty is all about in a way. Many of the blatantly anti-democratic elements in Thailand do have that option; and that, in a way, is what makes it so easy for them to dismiss the value of electoral procedure and democratic government. Living here, they’re not really governed by anyone. As long, that is, as they can hold back the Red tide.
SimonSays (#222) The Western press here in Thailand is hopelessly (and condescendingly) pro-Red>pro-Thaksin.
I don’t know about SimonSays, but I have spoken to many Western journalists in Thailand and don’t know a single one who isn’t critical of Thaksin. I think you mean: the Western press is critical of the the coup and the PAD and/or government lines, and therefore they are pro-Thaksin. This is the Manichean approach typical of the PAD, which slandered and denigrated virtually anyone even mildly critical of them.
LesAbbey(#228) And to finish your tale, you should note that Thaksin in the end did not throw out the FEER reporters. Readers unfamiliar with the case might not realize that from your account. The incident is not to Thaksin’s credit at all; no one with any sense would ever call him a defender of freedom of speech. In retrospect, though, it is grimly amusing to recall what excuse Thaksin used to go after FEER. “The more things change,…”
No, Bangkok middle class is not 50/50 divided. I shall just use my family for comparison: My mother is anti-yellow, my father is pro-yellow, my brother is pro-Red, my grandmother is pro-Taksin, my 2 uncles are pro-Taksin and pro-yellow respectively and my grandaunt prefers to watch soap opera and pretends nothing affects her.
I suppose I would rate myself anti-PAD.
For one who spend much of the Taksin years trying to convince her grandmother Taksin is a politician and is just as corrupt as all previous Thai PMs, I am now in a rather embarrassing situation actually defending some of Taksin’s policies and some of the ridiculous accusations thrown at him.
The point is, the Red-Yellow divide is more layered and nuanced than Red vsYellow. There is a growing proportion of people who are being dragged into this tug of war (will elaborate later), and do not comfortably site with either camp. Some are Red leaning, others Yellow leaning. And of course there will be ostriches who prefer to keep their heads in the sands.
The PAD, by claiming that if one sides Taksin, one do not love the King, started the snowball rolling. It looked a good strategy: leveraging the King’s popularity vs Taksin to unseat Taksin. In reality, this situation is not mutually exclusive. One can like Taksin and still love the King. But PAD framed the situation into an either or: “If you vote Taksin, then you do not love the King” Most people, not understanding the abstractness of the situation was ‘talked’ into taking sides. At first, most ‘Reds’ simply vote for Taksin (or pro-Taksin), or vote against Ahbisit while still ‘loving’ the King. The Royalists unfortunately took that line to heart and too hard. And then came that wear yellow on Monday to show your devotion to the King. Pro-King citizens started hanging yellow flags on their gates. This physical manifestation of ‘love’ resulted in the flawed ability to identify those who ‘do not love the King’ when it could be just a simple case of ‘I do not care’. Those who hang yellow flags outside their gates started to questioningly eye those who do not if they love the King. The result? Some were embarrassed or coerced into hanging yellow flags, some were agitated into wearing red, some were disciplined enough to stay neutral, and some are just blissfully ignorant. The above written process is what happened to the middle class families on the Soi I used to live on in Bangkok. It used to be flag-free. Then it used to have some yellow, later a mix of yellow and red. Now according to my ex-neighbor, it is mainly yellow or nothing.
I find the entire situation distressful and sad. I feel that, if there is to be any flags hanging, that flag should be red, blue, and white.
Del – You quote AsiaOnline. Perhaps you should read their “About Us” page. In part it states, “we are the successor of Asia Times, the Hong Kong/ Bangkok-based daily print newspaper founded in 1995 and associated with the Manager Media Group”. It’s possibly not the best media source to find unbiased reporting. Perhaps you could quote ASTV or Manager Online as well.
During the protest I asked a number of Photojournalists to get me a picture of a normal protester firing a war weapon or carrying one. I’m still waiting.
You have to also ask yourself this. If a government will give the orders to shoot it’s own citizens and call them all Terrorists, is it such a stretch to believe that that same Government would suppress the truth?
– Do you know for a fact that the government used snipers (not just regular troops on the street) to kill unarmed civilians? If so, to what extent?
– Do you know for a fact that the Black Shirt snipers killed innocent civilians? If so, to what extent?
– To what extent do you know, as opposed to believe, that the government troops knowingly fired on unarmed civilians? I.e. how widespread, how many deaths for sure?
– If you had not experienced being shot at how would your view of the Reds be any different or would it have remained the same?
Ahh, you started out so strong, but then followed “Two Red Shirt-affiliated foreigners were arrested Wednesday.” with “…unjustified detentions…” and you quickly lost it. We all saw the videos of those two characters. I haven’t seen stronger evidence for justified detention in a long time. lulz
Please look ater this on 6th October 2516, Situation and roll play as the same please check for this.
I am be the one that attent in the mob everyday in the night I know the situation everyday I stay theire since 8 pm until 7 am in the morning almost everyday. I saw Si-lom mob (that’s i know this is PAD) they come and try to provoke us to fight with them. In that’s case everybody need to go and fight with them but we know the situation that’s if we do something that ruin Gov. will had right to clear our protestor area. After 2 days since Si-lom mob came in their area had M79 (That Gov. announce that luanch from red shirt side) luanch to them I just only ask you that gov. announce on Television that M79 luanch from Rama 6 statue. I just want to know that what is the good result if we did this to them. Before they got M79 they trow Soda bottle a lot of bottle and Slingshot to us a lot. About 15 red shirt protestor had hurt from this situation but Free T.V. give just only information that they got slingshot from red shirt. This is the fact from Thai Media.
Everybody in red shirt protestor we got respect to our King and just want to know who said that I don’t love and royalty to my “KING”
In your whole life before you said that you love our KING before Red shirt come what is the thing that you used to did that shown you respect and did this to Monarchy and Our King.
I used to be the one that be ordrianed for Her Royal Highness Princess Galyani Vadhana, the Princess of Naradhiwas this is the truth for the respect to Our monarchy and our King don’t just only said and Think please find something proved from abstract to be Reality.
Am I being immoderate in asking why a comment I made?
# 33
about the Red Shirts action which “brought forth ENTIRELY PREDICTABLE violence from the state” according to another.
Is Awaiting Moderation while later comments are not in limbo?
A bizarre computer or odd form of censorship I wonder?
[Fixed now, AW.]
As to the FEER incident – i would suggest to reread the article that caused the problems. Other than bad journalism – stating business relations between Thaksin and a certain other person without offering one single bit of proof, such as companies, contracts, statistics, etc. – the responsible were more than lucky to escape an outright lese majeste case, which they might not have done since after the coup lese majeste became a popular method to shut up political opponents.
Thaksin was then, this government is now. Whatever Thaksin did wrong does not excuse the wrongdoings of this government. Presently the discussion does not revolve around what happened under Thaksin, but that the army during the crackdown has on many occasions, clearly violated even their own rules of engagement. I would suggest not derailing the discussion any further than already, and stick to the topic. To remind you – it is not what Thaksin has done during his terms as PM, but lots of dead and injured people very recently.
It appears I have touched some very sensitive nerves among New Mandala readers by the General Khattiya ‘civil war’ poster. Truth always does that to most people.
StanG made his observation elsewhere that the Red Shirts had disappeared literally after their failed violent rebellion and widespread arson at Rachaprasong; and I must agree. Overcome by shame and disgust very likely are the common sentiments by the peaceful Reds after being betrayed and manipulated by their leaders.
And to JohnH, yes of course I agree, General Khattiya’s civil war idea was stupid from the very start, and I am not saying that because of hindsight either. For foresight, any idea to move the failed Reds rebellion into an underground/guerilla type of insurgency will too be very stupid. More foresight would too suggest, despite one very determined Chris Beale’s repeating posters, that an Isaarn secession would be very stupid.
But stupid ideas appear to be standard fare over at the Red shirts camp. Perhaps Srithanonchai should redirect his ‘start thinking’ motto to the Reds who surely could profit from Srithanonchai’s counsel.
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Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Nick Nostitz – 229
I would suggest not derailing the discussion any further than already, and stick to the topic.
Apologies Nick for bringing up Thaksin who obviously has nothing to do with recent events. What I was trying to say, on topic I guess, is that Abhisit hasn’t thrown any of the Western journalists out for their coverage. That in itself is positive when we compare Thailand to its neighbours I suspect. The fact that Abhisit spoke with you is again positive. All this does tend to remove the “Thailand equals Burma” line being peddled by some. (I know not by you and I admire your accuracy in reporting what you saw.)
To Superanonymous, yes I should have said for those that weren’t around that the two FEER journalists were not in the end expelled although that was the original government decision.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Emjay, #233
You missed a very important fact about Thaksin — this guy seized power from Sonthi Bunyaratkalin when the latter was playing golf.
Thailand’s terrorists
geomark #37
Seems you are not from the USA, land of the first amendment and do not believe in freedom of speech.
Could you kindly post the weblinks to the videos which so offended you? Have the links been blocked by the censors?
Sondhi – return parliamentary powers to the king
Well isn’t this what all these political machinations over the past two years is all about, the issue of succession. And just which faction within the palace is backing Sondhi? This becomes all a bit frightening considering the rumored violence that has already occurred between the competing palace factions.
I have only met but a single person who was personally familiar with all the primary palace actors, the late former BBC Southeast Asian corespondent, Ms. Judy, and her observations of the Royal family was that there was not a bright bulb in the bunch. Having attended one of Sondhi’s US lectures in the fall of 2009 at the University of Washington, and heard his callous remarks about the rural populace, the type of derogatory remarks referred to in Prof. Keyes recent letter to an editor, well Sondhi’s remarks just send shivers up my spine.
Thailand in crisis – ANU video series
Re Central World, perhaps it is also possible that the feng shui arrangements were not sufficient.
http://www.dc-international.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=632:the-erawan-corner&catid=123&Itemid=42
http://blog.tourismthailand.org/EugeneTang/?p=1200
Sondhi – return parliamentary powers to the king
Sounds to me like another horror from The Cabinet of Dr. Chai-anan-igari.
BTW, has anyone had the time to compare this “official” version with the actual address delivered by Sondhi? I’m not alleging anything, but I’ve always been curious to what extent the PAD crowd might be “revising” history. Does anyone know of any examples of that? Any apostates airbrushed out of photos?
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Let me begin by saying that Thaksin was and is a “bad man.”
He did not respect democratic procedure when he was in power; he used his political power to enrich himself, his family and select members of his government and of his wider group of “friends”.
He initiated violence against farmers who dared to protest against his policy decisions, he ramped up the Southern problem by increasing state violence there, and he was responsible for the deaths and human rights abuses of the War on Drugs.
It would be insane to deny any of this, just as it would be to suggest that these horrors are all he was responsible for as PM of Thailand.
The Redshirts are a pro-democracy, anti-dictatorship movement in part, possibly in great part, funded by Thaksin and lead, in part, by present and former Thaksin associates; many of the Red rank and file are Thaksin supporters who would love to see him back at the helm of the country. These too are things that cannot be denied.
And Thaksin’s motives for backing this movement and playing whatever leadership role he plays in it are no doubt as venal and as indifferent to democracy as an ideal as were many of his actions when he was PM. It’s doubtful that any leopard’s spot-changing miracles have taken place over the past four years.
I hope I haven’t left out anything significant, because I suspect that, if I haven’t, the anti-Red posters on this thread, and just about every other similar thread on every Thailand-related web-board, will have absolutely nothing to say in opposition to what I have said and have to say.
That is unless, of course, they are willing to come out of the closet and admit that they are quite simply anti-democracy and pro-dictatorship, much like the PAD and the numerous elements in the media and the wider middle and upper classes in Thailand who abhor the thought of what democracy would mean in this country.
Like every functioning democracy on the face of planet the Redshirt movement is a complex and far from ethically pure phenomenon, but to claim that they are not at all interested in democracy is the height of absurdity, if for no other reason than that it flies in the face of the “it’s all about Thaksin” meme that has been in viral overdrive in Thailand since September 20th, 2006.
Even if we accept the blanket denials of what tens of thousands of Thais have “said” by rallying with the UDD, and agree that all this is and has been about Thaksin and nothing else, there remains the sticky issue of Thaksin or a proxy/avatar of Thaksin needing to win an election to get what he and they want.
In other words, unlike the present regime whose very existence as such is dependent on the Royal Thai Army and the “Palace” that it is so loudly and hysterically committed to “defending”, the Reds are 100% dependent on democratic process to get into power. They need an election.
When they say they want Abhisit out and to force an election they mean just that, hence the anti-dictatorship, pro-democracy slant of everything they say and do. To suggest otherwise is to fly in the face of a rather simple reality: the only road open to Thaksin and his phuak to return to power is to somehow contrive to have democracy, such as it has been in Thailand, re-instituted.
I don’t accept this “It’s all about Thaksin” view of the Reds, but even if I did, I would have to side with those demanding democratic elections and give my support to people, like the Reds, who would have to allow themselves to be “used” by Thaksin in order to use him to engineer a democratic system in Thailand.
And that would not and does not make me a “Thaksin supporter”; it simply means that I accept and believe that democracy, with all its imperfections, is better than any of the alternatives, even in Thailand. It also means that I am a Thai people supporter and respect utterly their right to choose who they will be governed by, whether or not their choices would reflect my values and aspirations.
Like all the other non-Thais engaged in this debate, I can always pack up and go home if I don’t like what an electoral majority of Thais finally make of Thailand when they are empowered to do so.
I don’t think I’ll be doing anything of the kind, but not having that option is really what popular sovereignty is all about in a way. Many of the blatantly anti-democratic elements in Thailand do have that option; and that, in a way, is what makes it so easy for them to dismiss the value of electoral procedure and democratic government. Living here, they’re not really governed by anyone. As long, that is, as they can hold back the Red tide.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
SimonSays (#222) The Western press here in Thailand is hopelessly (and condescendingly) pro-Red>pro-Thaksin.
I don’t know about SimonSays, but I have spoken to many Western journalists in Thailand and don’t know a single one who isn’t critical of Thaksin. I think you mean: the Western press is critical of the the coup and the PAD and/or government lines, and therefore they are pro-Thaksin. This is the Manichean approach typical of the PAD, which slandered and denigrated virtually anyone even mildly critical of them.
LesAbbey(#228) And to finish your tale, you should note that Thaksin in the end did not throw out the FEER reporters. Readers unfamiliar with the case might not realize that from your account. The incident is not to Thaksin’s credit at all; no one with any sense would ever call him a defender of freedom of speech. In retrospect, though, it is grimly amusing to recall what excuse Thaksin used to go after FEER. “The more things change,…”
For more information on the case, see:
http://cpj.org/2003/03/attacks-on-the-press-2002-thailand.php
Sondhi – return parliamentary powers to the king
Is SL being sarcastic?
Sondhi – return parliamentary powers to the king
Sondhi is intellectual lazy. He just wants to give all the burdens back to the King again. This proposal will not make Thailand moving forward at all.
Thailand’s full-blown crisis of legitimacy
JohnH:
No, Bangkok middle class is not 50/50 divided. I shall just use my family for comparison: My mother is anti-yellow, my father is pro-yellow, my brother is pro-Red, my grandmother is pro-Taksin, my 2 uncles are pro-Taksin and pro-yellow respectively and my grandaunt prefers to watch soap opera and pretends nothing affects her.
I suppose I would rate myself anti-PAD.
For one who spend much of the Taksin years trying to convince her grandmother Taksin is a politician and is just as corrupt as all previous Thai PMs, I am now in a rather embarrassing situation actually defending some of Taksin’s policies and some of the ridiculous accusations thrown at him.
The point is, the Red-Yellow divide is more layered and nuanced than Red vsYellow. There is a growing proportion of people who are being dragged into this tug of war (will elaborate later), and do not comfortably site with either camp. Some are Red leaning, others Yellow leaning. And of course there will be ostriches who prefer to keep their heads in the sands.
The PAD, by claiming that if one sides Taksin, one do not love the King, started the snowball rolling. It looked a good strategy: leveraging the King’s popularity vs Taksin to unseat Taksin. In reality, this situation is not mutually exclusive. One can like Taksin and still love the King. But PAD framed the situation into an either or: “If you vote Taksin, then you do not love the King” Most people, not understanding the abstractness of the situation was ‘talked’ into taking sides. At first, most ‘Reds’ simply vote for Taksin (or pro-Taksin), or vote against Ahbisit while still ‘loving’ the King. The Royalists unfortunately took that line to heart and too hard. And then came that wear yellow on Monday to show your devotion to the King. Pro-King citizens started hanging yellow flags on their gates. This physical manifestation of ‘love’ resulted in the flawed ability to identify those who ‘do not love the King’ when it could be just a simple case of ‘I do not care’. Those who hang yellow flags outside their gates started to questioningly eye those who do not if they love the King. The result? Some were embarrassed or coerced into hanging yellow flags, some were agitated into wearing red, some were disciplined enough to stay neutral, and some are just blissfully ignorant. The above written process is what happened to the middle class families on the Soi I used to live on in Bangkok. It used to be flag-free. Then it used to have some yellow, later a mix of yellow and red. Now according to my ex-neighbor, it is mainly yellow or nothing.
I find the entire situation distressful and sad. I feel that, if there is to be any flags hanging, that flag should be red, blue, and white.
Thailand’s terrorists
Del – You quote AsiaOnline. Perhaps you should read their “About Us” page. In part it states, “we are the successor of Asia Times, the Hong Kong/ Bangkok-based daily print newspaper founded in 1995 and associated with the Manager Media Group”. It’s possibly not the best media source to find unbiased reporting. Perhaps you could quote ASTV or Manager Online as well.
During the protest I asked a number of Photojournalists to get me a picture of a normal protester firing a war weapon or carrying one. I’m still waiting.
You have to also ask yourself this. If a government will give the orders to shoot it’s own citizens and call them all Terrorists, is it such a stretch to believe that that same Government would suppress the truth?
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
A few questions for Nick N:
– Do you know for a fact that the government used snipers (not just regular troops on the street) to kill unarmed civilians? If so, to what extent?
– Do you know for a fact that the Black Shirt snipers killed innocent civilians? If so, to what extent?
– To what extent do you know, as opposed to believe, that the government troops knowingly fired on unarmed civilians? I.e. how widespread, how many deaths for sure?
– If you had not experienced being shot at how would your view of the Reds be any different or would it have remained the same?
Grateful for any answers you can provide. Thanks.
Sondhi – return parliamentary powers to the king
Something he should do right now is to change the name of his organization to PAAM, People’s Alliance for Absolute Monarchy.
Thailand’s terrorists
Ahh, you started out so strong, but then followed “Two Red Shirt-affiliated foreigners were arrested Wednesday.” with “…unjustified detentions…” and you quickly lost it. We all saw the videos of those two characters. I haven’t seen stronger evidence for justified detention in a long time. lulz
Sondhi – return parliamentary powers to the king
”…bring everything to good order.”
That order being what exactly? Where everyone knows their place in a feudal society?
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Simonsay #217
Thank you for your comments.
Please look ater this on 6th October 2516, Situation and roll play as the same please check for this.
I am be the one that attent in the mob everyday in the night I know the situation everyday I stay theire since 8 pm until 7 am in the morning almost everyday. I saw Si-lom mob (that’s i know this is PAD) they come and try to provoke us to fight with them. In that’s case everybody need to go and fight with them but we know the situation that’s if we do something that ruin Gov. will had right to clear our protestor area. After 2 days since Si-lom mob came in their area had M79 (That Gov. announce that luanch from red shirt side) luanch to them I just only ask you that gov. announce on Television that M79 luanch from Rama 6 statue. I just want to know that what is the good result if we did this to them. Before they got M79 they trow Soda bottle a lot of bottle and Slingshot to us a lot. About 15 red shirt protestor had hurt from this situation but Free T.V. give just only information that they got slingshot from red shirt. This is the fact from Thai Media.
Everybody in red shirt protestor we got respect to our King and just want to know who said that I don’t love and royalty to my “KING”
In your whole life before you said that you love our KING before Red shirt come what is the thing that you used to did that shown you respect and did this to Monarchy and Our King.
I used to be the one that be ordrianed for Her Royal Highness Princess Galyani Vadhana, the Princess of Naradhiwas this is the truth for the respect to Our monarchy and our King don’t just only said and Think please find something proved from abstract to be Reality.
Thailand’s terrorists
Am I being immoderate in asking why a comment I made?
# 33
about the Red Shirts action which “brought forth ENTIRELY PREDICTABLE violence from the state” according to another.
Is Awaiting Moderation while later comments are not in limbo?
A bizarre computer or odd form of censorship I wonder?
[Fixed now, AW.]
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
“LesAbbey”:
As to the FEER incident – i would suggest to reread the article that caused the problems. Other than bad journalism – stating business relations between Thaksin and a certain other person without offering one single bit of proof, such as companies, contracts, statistics, etc. – the responsible were more than lucky to escape an outright lese majeste case, which they might not have done since after the coup lese majeste became a popular method to shut up political opponents.
Thaksin was then, this government is now. Whatever Thaksin did wrong does not excuse the wrongdoings of this government. Presently the discussion does not revolve around what happened under Thaksin, but that the army during the crackdown has on many occasions, clearly violated even their own rules of engagement. I would suggest not derailing the discussion any further than already, and stick to the topic. To remind you – it is not what Thaksin has done during his terms as PM, but lots of dead and injured people very recently.
Enemies, foreign and domestic
It appears I have touched some very sensitive nerves among New Mandala readers by the General Khattiya ‘civil war’ poster. Truth always does that to most people.
StanG made his observation elsewhere that the Red Shirts had disappeared literally after their failed violent rebellion and widespread arson at Rachaprasong; and I must agree. Overcome by shame and disgust very likely are the common sentiments by the peaceful Reds after being betrayed and manipulated by their leaders.
And to JohnH, yes of course I agree, General Khattiya’s civil war idea was stupid from the very start, and I am not saying that because of hindsight either. For foresight, any idea to move the failed Reds rebellion into an underground/guerilla type of insurgency will too be very stupid. More foresight would too suggest, despite one very determined Chris Beale’s repeating posters, that an Isaarn secession would be very stupid.
But stupid ideas appear to be standard fare over at the Red shirts camp. Perhaps Srithanonchai should redirect his ‘start thinking’ motto to the Reds who surely could profit from Srithanonchai’s counsel.