Nuomi #16, “why do some Thais want to boycott this film?”
Some Thais want to entirely inhibit discussion & all cultural expression which will move Thai culture into the 21stC. Kh ladda’s Orwellian ‘Cultural Surveillance Department’ is evidence of this.
Kh Apichatpong’s Palme d’Or is highly significant, much more so than if a French or American had won it. A Thai artist (most of the world doesn’t even know that such an animal exists) has been chosen by a panel of international artists to receive the most prestigious award in the art film world. It must not be allowed to go unnoticed. Thailand is urgently in need of an ‘alternative’ arts movement, especially one which can get young people involved in intelligent discussions of culture & society, & I don’t mean merely Re-vs-Yellow issues.
I strongly urge all NM readers to see the film when it is released, & talk about it as publicly as possible. I’m not asking you to say you like it, if you don’t. Just don’t ignore it or dismiss it.
those who are real Thais and those who are men should know that many countries including european and middle eastern can met out heavy punishment without discussion on basis of lese majeste laws.King of Thailand and monarchy are still very considerate that they bear with so much as it is.This is a man who has given his life and soul for Thailand.
As far as who burnt central world:if not red shirts and Thaksin’s people than Thai govt????are you for real!
In short, and like Lee says, it’s even more of a tragedy when you realise that this is not a populist/democratic political movement – the urban/rural/rich/poor debate is something separate and indeed needs addressing. If something ‘good’ ever comes out of this conflcit, let’s hope it’s that.
The red shirts are pawns in Thaksin’s larger political game, in his ‘strategy for business’ & his driving need to return to power & regain his wealth.
This is why it’s even more disturbing/distressing to see people die and to see Bangkok looted and burnt for his insatiable personal ambitions.
re. my post to Mike #10: I should have mentioned, do it in writing, so that if you need to go further, you can show the officials involved. Your letter doesn’t need to be elaborate – simply state the facts.
Mike #10 – I urge you & the other parents to complain to the school, the Misery of Education and, if no action is taken within 7 days, to the Office of Public Sector Development Commission. OPDC is above the Public Service & very powerful (it’s also populated by an unusually high number of intelligent & well-educated officials, who are struggling to get the civil service serving the public), & it’s likely that you will get action from them, but they will only do so if you have already made an approach to a part of the public service & it has been ignored. They are obliged to do this, under a Royal Proclamation.
The intimidation of children is nothing short of perverted. It must be stopped.
The current Thai monarchy doesn’t want to be a constitutional monarchy, rather they are driven to be an absolute monarchy with the total control of military, government, and judiciary. The concentration of power only to the monarchy is causing serious political, economic, and national security problems across the country. It is time to change the system. Hence, the solution is to change from absolute monarchy manipulating things behind the scene, to “Presidential System” like in the United States, Indonesia, and the Philippines. With the federal system, the power will be decentralized and at the same time drawn from grass roots across the country.
“All the talk now are of reconcilliation. How can be reconcile when one can only hear one side of the story?”
This is a misconception of what “reconciliation” means from the government perspective. It simply means that the majority of Thais submit themselves to the government view, backed by the traditional Thai state ideology.
Rebecca,
you say: “there is nothing complex about corruption and censorship, its state power that is used for suppression.” – the red shirts’ stalwart leader for ‘democracy’ – their ‘donor’ – is Thaksin.
Let’s consider for a moment your point on government ‘censorship.’
1. When Thaksin was in power, he embarked on the most aggressive media control strategy.
After a series of critical reports on the Thaksin government by the Hong Kong-based Far Eastern Economic Review (FEER) – 2003 – “Thailand Inc”, ‘Thaksin Inc’ hammered back.
The January 10th issue of the magazine was deemed by Thai Special Branch police to be a “threat to national security” and the magazine was banned!! if you recall.
After another critical report on the Thai government’s handling of the economy on February 7th, the Special Branch were ordered by the PM’s office to blacklist FEER’s two Bangkok-based reporters and threaten them with deportation!! State security agencies had been used in this way by a Thai government since the dark days of rule by different military juntas!!.
Thaksin Shinawatra, the telecommunications tycoon, believed Thailand should be run in the same way he ran his Shinawatra Corporation boardroom – the boss gives the orders and his minions simply obey. In his vision of the new Thailand, there was/is little room for dissent and opposition.
I would like to ask you if he had been Abhisit, and the red shirts had been on the streets opposing him, I wonder how the situation would have played out!!??
In March 2006, came further evidence that Mr Thaksin’s drive to tame the media was turning the clock back to a previous era of dictatorship, when the government pressured the 24 hour cable news channel UBC8 to drop an independent news service provide by the Nation media group.
Thaksin’s rule, as leader of Thai Rak Thai (Thai Love Thai party) had most media either intimidated or won over with government largesse. Thaksin’s conflict of interests and control over the media – his corporation owned the iTV channel – was comparable to…you said it Rebecca – nazi Germany.
Concerning The Nation news service: once again Thaksin warned the media to be “constructive” in its reports. At the same time Special Branch censors were soon at it again with a threat to seize all copies of the March 2nd (2003) issue of The Economist with its ‘special survey on Thailand’ – if it was distributed.
Thai police spokesman Major General Pongsapat Pongcharoen went further and insisted that the Thai authorities would demand that the London-based weekly remove its “Survey on Thailand” from the Web – in a manner that reeked of Singapore-style media control and internet censorship! The Economist didn’t comply.
When it appeared that Thaksin’s popularity was also on the wane, according to a opinion poll, shortly after the poll was released Assumption University’s Abac Poll team received a series of visits from high-ranking military officers and Special Branch police.
Anger over the anti-independent media campaign was fuelled days later by the revelation that AMLO- the Anti-Money Laundering Organisation – had secretly ordered commercial banks to release confidential details of the assets and transactions of certain Thai journalists, & NGO leaders of rural poor organizations!! They all had one thing in common – they were all vocal critics of the Thaksin government.
Point 2. Corruption.
i) Thaksin’s war on drugs.
This was a brutal killing spree that led to the extrajudicial killings of about 2,500 people while thousands more were arrested.
Police were told to treat persons suspected of drugs charges as security threats and deal with ‘ruthlessly’.
More than 2,000 people were slain in the first three months of the campaign.
People began disappearing while others went into hiding. Innocent people were killed by mistake, such a nine-year-old boy and a pregnant woman who died within one month of the campaign beginning (2003)
Thaksin said the police were acting in self defense; in all cases, corpses were always found to be holding ‘guns’ – the set up & messing with forensic evidence was absurdly and macabrely obvious – the police also said the deaths were simply the result of gang warfare.
A total of 2,656 people were killed during Thaksin’s “war on drugs”, according to his own government. More than 52,000 arrests were made and 3.7 billion baht (about ┬г50m) in assets seized!
“We are now in a position to declare that drugs… can no longer hurt us,” Thaksin proudly announced in 2004. “Many Thai people now have their sons and daughters back.”
Democratic and a representative of the poor indeed!!!!
Now let’s look at his fortune>hmmmm
ii) I’ll just say that the graft allegations against him were 124 pages long. The associated evidence required 180 boxes and needed to be transported to the court in one large lorry (filled)!!
We can all do the research for the facts and figures…..
So Rebecca, you are indeed correct about one thing – ‘there is nothing complex about corruption and censorship, its state power that is used for suppression’
This kind of happenings (though they need verification) are perfectly within the range of possibilities of prescribed behaviors of Thai teachers (especially, obviously, yellow shirted teachers). If they did so, they were sincere in their actions. Only that this would be, unfortunately, sincere fascism. It is getting more scary by the day…
Increasing repression is a logical and inevitable followup to the crackdown.
I had some faint hope that Abhisit would have enough vision and courage to offer reconciliation after scoring a victory, while his side is on the upswing. That is obviously not the case.
Thailand is far too open and advanced to become another Burma. Therefore, increasing repression is almost certain to lead to increasing discontent, boiling over in a far uglier way next time. I’m afraid the crisis we saw was a mild introduction.
Sorry but I originally said that “its a combination of” I didn’t say in this order or anything. Its like saying the assembly of the tail part, the wing, the body, and the wheel will lead to a completion an airplane. Does it matter which came first?
Lee #189 – I don’t deny that Kattiya said that. However, my point is that it is highly likely, based on many reports, as well as photos of black-dressed snipers with conventionally-dressed soldiers, that there was more than one group of blackshirts.
Because of “the reality, that there are other, cynical powers with more influence pulling the strings here”, on all sides, and we don’t know who they are, or what strings they are pulling, I’m keeping my options open for the time being. The only thing that is clear is that this whole thing, not only the men in black, is much more complicated than it seems on the surface.
On verification of the school event – good point and I know I can’t. I’m not saying this is organized by the Govt, nor that it is widespread, I don’t know. Further, 8 year old boys may be a little loose with the truth.
However, from some other parents at the school also noting this, children were asked to identify if they were red, and they were lectured on this.
Mr. V . I can help you for this term if Nick want to know something I can give you interview about this but I’m just be the one who attend in this situation, honestly some of the truth I can’t know something inside for the fact but I really know just only what i’m doing for this. I do not thing concern about Taksin cuase I don’t like him to disturb to our monarchy (the story from PAD) but I like him on be the government cuase they can manage a lot of thing that made Thai to be developt.
I realize one thing that the ruin in Bangkok like burnt Mall burnt building this is not the thing that can be support or accept.
After we past this situation I want just only the justice and responsibility for who’ve got killed. And want everybody in Thailand care about who have died more than the building that had burnt.
Building can be rebuild but life can not be made again who can be respons for this situation.
PS> I want to say that everybody in Thailand think about Black shirt or Sniper who kill red shirt people I wan to say that only Soldier sniper that can be cuaght by Camera, that’s Right? If Red Shirt have this Black shirt or a lot of Weapon and Ammo in this mob, Why do they use when Military storm to they protest area? and Why Sniper that be on Red shirt site don’t shoot to soldier?? Please give me an idea for this.
Tarrin #95 – “I didn’t mean to say all those point in chronological order by the way, it was just in random order.” Interesting, then, that you follow them with, “that eventually lead to the Magna Carta”!
I would like to ask:
Is there a proper forum in English that I can go to for proper discussion and argument on what is happening in Thailand.
NM is a cool site, but I find it difficult to have a proper discussion here using the wordpress comments function.
If there isn’t, can anyone OUTSIDE of Thailand start one?
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Thai style democracy?
Whoops! my 2nd date should have been 17thC, not 18thC. (typo).
Thai style democracy?
Tarrin #99: “Does it matter which came first?” Only if you say that a list of events between the 14thC & 18thC “lead to” the Magna Carta in 13thC.
Chula academics call for “return of justice and academic freedom”
Nuomi #16, “why do some Thais want to boycott this film?”
Some Thais want to entirely inhibit discussion & all cultural expression which will move Thai culture into the 21stC. Kh ladda’s Orwellian ‘Cultural Surveillance Department’ is evidence of this.
Kh Apichatpong’s Palme d’Or is highly significant, much more so than if a French or American had won it. A Thai artist (most of the world doesn’t even know that such an animal exists) has been chosen by a panel of international artists to receive the most prestigious award in the art film world. It must not be allowed to go unnoticed. Thailand is urgently in need of an ‘alternative’ arts movement, especially one which can get young people involved in intelligent discussions of culture & society, & I don’t mean merely Re-vs-Yellow issues.
I strongly urge all NM readers to see the film when it is released, & talk about it as publicly as possible. I’m not asking you to say you like it, if you don’t. Just don’t ignore it or dismiss it.
Enemies, foreign and domestic
those who are real Thais and those who are men should know that many countries including european and middle eastern can met out heavy punishment without discussion on basis of lese majeste laws.King of Thailand and monarchy are still very considerate that they bear with so much as it is.This is a man who has given his life and soul for Thailand.
As far as who burnt central world:if not red shirts and Thaksin’s people than Thai govt????are you for real!
The king and facebook
[…] […]
Chula academics call for “return of justice and academic freedom”
Nuomi: http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/a-conversation-with-the-top-prize-winner-of-cannes/
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
In short, and like Lee says, it’s even more of a tragedy when you realise that this is not a populist/democratic political movement – the urban/rural/rich/poor debate is something separate and indeed needs addressing. If something ‘good’ ever comes out of this conflcit, let’s hope it’s that.
The red shirts are pawns in Thaksin’s larger political game, in his ‘strategy for business’ & his driving need to return to power & regain his wealth.
This is why it’s even more disturbing/distressing to see people die and to see Bangkok looted and burnt for his insatiable personal ambitions.
Enemies, foreign and domestic
re. my post to Mike #10: I should have mentioned, do it in writing, so that if you need to go further, you can show the officials involved. Your letter doesn’t need to be elaborate – simply state the facts.
Enemies, foreign and domestic
Mike #10 – I urge you & the other parents to complain to the school, the Misery of Education and, if no action is taken within 7 days, to the Office of Public Sector Development Commission. OPDC is above the Public Service & very powerful (it’s also populated by an unusually high number of intelligent & well-educated officials, who are struggling to get the civil service serving the public), & it’s likely that you will get action from them, but they will only do so if you have already made an approach to a part of the public service & it has been ignored. They are obliged to do this, under a Royal Proclamation.
The intimidation of children is nothing short of perverted. It must be stopped.
Enemies, foreign and domestic
The current Thai monarchy doesn’t want to be a constitutional monarchy, rather they are driven to be an absolute monarchy with the total control of military, government, and judiciary. The concentration of power only to the monarchy is causing serious political, economic, and national security problems across the country. It is time to change the system. Hence, the solution is to change from absolute monarchy manipulating things behind the scene, to “Presidential System” like in the United States, Indonesia, and the Philippines. With the federal system, the power will be decentralized and at the same time drawn from grass roots across the country.
Chula academics call for “return of justice and academic freedom”
TV:
“All the talk now are of reconcilliation. How can be reconcile when one can only hear one side of the story?”
This is a misconception of what “reconciliation” means from the government perspective. It simply means that the majority of Thais submit themselves to the government view, backed by the traditional Thai state ideology.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Rebecca,
you say: “there is nothing complex about corruption and censorship, its state power that is used for suppression.” – the red shirts’ stalwart leader for ‘democracy’ – their ‘donor’ – is Thaksin.
Let’s consider for a moment your point on government ‘censorship.’
1. When Thaksin was in power, he embarked on the most aggressive media control strategy.
After a series of critical reports on the Thaksin government by the Hong Kong-based Far Eastern Economic Review (FEER) – 2003 – “Thailand Inc”, ‘Thaksin Inc’ hammered back.
The January 10th issue of the magazine was deemed by Thai Special Branch police to be a “threat to national security” and the magazine was banned!! if you recall.
After another critical report on the Thai government’s handling of the economy on February 7th, the Special Branch were ordered by the PM’s office to blacklist FEER’s two Bangkok-based reporters and threaten them with deportation!! State security agencies had been used in this way by a Thai government since the dark days of rule by different military juntas!!.
Thaksin Shinawatra, the telecommunications tycoon, believed Thailand should be run in the same way he ran his Shinawatra Corporation boardroom – the boss gives the orders and his minions simply obey. In his vision of the new Thailand, there was/is little room for dissent and opposition.
I would like to ask you if he had been Abhisit, and the red shirts had been on the streets opposing him, I wonder how the situation would have played out!!??
In March 2006, came further evidence that Mr Thaksin’s drive to tame the media was turning the clock back to a previous era of dictatorship, when the government pressured the 24 hour cable news channel UBC8 to drop an independent news service provide by the Nation media group.
Thaksin’s rule, as leader of Thai Rak Thai (Thai Love Thai party) had most media either intimidated or won over with government largesse. Thaksin’s conflict of interests and control over the media – his corporation owned the iTV channel – was comparable to…you said it Rebecca – nazi Germany.
Concerning The Nation news service: once again Thaksin warned the media to be “constructive” in its reports. At the same time Special Branch censors were soon at it again with a threat to seize all copies of the March 2nd (2003) issue of The Economist with its ‘special survey on Thailand’ – if it was distributed.
Thai police spokesman Major General Pongsapat Pongcharoen went further and insisted that the Thai authorities would demand that the London-based weekly remove its “Survey on Thailand” from the Web – in a manner that reeked of Singapore-style media control and internet censorship! The Economist didn’t comply.
When it appeared that Thaksin’s popularity was also on the wane, according to a opinion poll, shortly after the poll was released Assumption University’s Abac Poll team received a series of visits from high-ranking military officers and Special Branch police.
Anger over the anti-independent media campaign was fuelled days later by the revelation that AMLO- the Anti-Money Laundering Organisation – had secretly ordered commercial banks to release confidential details of the assets and transactions of certain Thai journalists, & NGO leaders of rural poor organizations!! They all had one thing in common – they were all vocal critics of the Thaksin government.
Point 2. Corruption.
i) Thaksin’s war on drugs.
This was a brutal killing spree that led to the extrajudicial killings of about 2,500 people while thousands more were arrested.
Police were told to treat persons suspected of drugs charges as security threats and deal with ‘ruthlessly’.
More than 2,000 people were slain in the first three months of the campaign.
People began disappearing while others went into hiding. Innocent people were killed by mistake, such a nine-year-old boy and a pregnant woman who died within one month of the campaign beginning (2003)
Thaksin said the police were acting in self defense; in all cases, corpses were always found to be holding ‘guns’ – the set up & messing with forensic evidence was absurdly and macabrely obvious – the police also said the deaths were simply the result of gang warfare.
A total of 2,656 people were killed during Thaksin’s “war on drugs”, according to his own government. More than 52,000 arrests were made and 3.7 billion baht (about ┬г50m) in assets seized!
“We are now in a position to declare that drugs… can no longer hurt us,” Thaksin proudly announced in 2004. “Many Thai people now have their sons and daughters back.”
Democratic and a representative of the poor indeed!!!!
Now let’s look at his fortune>hmmmm
ii) I’ll just say that the graft allegations against him were 124 pages long. The associated evidence required 180 boxes and needed to be transported to the court in one large lorry (filled)!!
We can all do the research for the facts and figures…..
So Rebecca, you are indeed correct about one thing – ‘there is nothing complex about corruption and censorship, its state power that is used for suppression’
Let’s hope he doesn’t return!!
Enemies, foreign and domestic
Mike,
This kind of happenings (though they need verification) are perfectly within the range of possibilities of prescribed behaviors of Thai teachers (especially, obviously, yellow shirted teachers). If they did so, they were sincere in their actions. Only that this would be, unfortunately, sincere fascism. It is getting more scary by the day…
Enemies, foreign and domestic
Increasing repression is a logical and inevitable followup to the crackdown.
I had some faint hope that Abhisit would have enough vision and courage to offer reconciliation after scoring a victory, while his side is on the upswing. That is obviously not the case.
Thailand is far too open and advanced to become another Burma. Therefore, increasing repression is almost certain to lead to increasing discontent, boiling over in a far uglier way next time. I’m afraid the crisis we saw was a mild introduction.
Thai style democracy?
michael – 98
Sorry but I originally said that “its a combination of” I didn’t say in this order or anything. Its like saying the assembly of the tail part, the wing, the body, and the wheel will lead to a completion an airplane. Does it matter which came first?
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Lee #189 – I don’t deny that Kattiya said that. However, my point is that it is highly likely, based on many reports, as well as photos of black-dressed snipers with conventionally-dressed soldiers, that there was more than one group of blackshirts.
Because of “the reality, that there are other, cynical powers with more influence pulling the strings here”, on all sides, and we don’t know who they are, or what strings they are pulling, I’m keeping my options open for the time being. The only thing that is clear is that this whole thing, not only the men in black, is much more complicated than it seems on the surface.
Enemies, foreign and domestic
On verification of the school event – good point and I know I can’t. I’m not saying this is organized by the Govt, nor that it is widespread, I don’t know. Further, 8 year old boys may be a little loose with the truth.
However, from some other parents at the school also noting this, children were asked to identify if they were red, and they were lectured on this.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Thank you for all comments about me.
Mr. V . I can help you for this term if Nick want to know something I can give you interview about this but I’m just be the one who attend in this situation, honestly some of the truth I can’t know something inside for the fact but I really know just only what i’m doing for this. I do not thing concern about Taksin cuase I don’t like him to disturb to our monarchy (the story from PAD) but I like him on be the government cuase they can manage a lot of thing that made Thai to be developt.
I realize one thing that the ruin in Bangkok like burnt Mall burnt building this is not the thing that can be support or accept.
After we past this situation I want just only the justice and responsibility for who’ve got killed. And want everybody in Thailand care about who have died more than the building that had burnt.
Building can be rebuild but life can not be made again who can be respons for this situation.
PS> I want to say that everybody in Thailand think about Black shirt or Sniper who kill red shirt people I wan to say that only Soldier sniper that can be cuaght by Camera, that’s Right? If Red Shirt have this Black shirt or a lot of Weapon and Ammo in this mob, Why do they use when Military storm to they protest area? and Why Sniper that be on Red shirt site don’t shoot to soldier?? Please give me an idea for this.
Thai style democracy?
Tarrin #95 – “I didn’t mean to say all those point in chronological order by the way, it was just in random order.” Interesting, then, that you follow them with, “that eventually lead to the Magna Carta”!
Enemies, foreign and domestic
I would like to ask:
Is there a proper forum in English that I can go to for proper discussion and argument on what is happening in Thailand.
NM is a cool site, but I find it difficult to have a proper discussion here using the wordpress comments function.
If there isn’t, can anyone OUTSIDE of Thailand start one?
***