Listening to the rural poor is very important. That is subtley a little different from talking to them. It is however a little difficult as in general strangers are not always privvy to what people really think or even to real discussion with a lot of tell them what they want to hear. This can also be further complicated by who else is present too. The presence of a person known with affiliation to one group or another who is known to have some influence can create conditions for a complete 180 of real feelings. However listening is important.
By the way talking (or better still listening) to the red shirts and talking to the rural poor are two different things. We shouldnt after all be assuming all rural poor are red or assuming all reds are rural poor or even that all rural poor hail from only parts of certain regions.
The urban poor also deserve listening to as their needs and wants can often be very different form the rural poor. And within this group there are at least three subtley different sub sets: those who still regard themselves as villagers making some temporary cash away from home, those that were born into urban areas as poor and those that have left the villages and are trying to establish themselves as urban dwellers without having to return to village life.
Forgetting the power struggles and usually oversimplified scenarios of what the poltical struggle in Thailand is about and we can actually see there are lots of dynamics in play and many groups that may at a certain time have a shared interest but that which really have as much in difference in needs and wants as in common. This is a complicated time of transition for Thailand and as Thailand was not colonised and isnt going through the transition in the same time frame as other uncolonized nations it is almost a unique case study as their are groups and forces that are different from other places currently going through change. Maybe that in part is what makes it so complicated, difficult to predict, understand and so very interesting. Apologies for finally going off topic.
Re Uncle Boonmee film:
I have been trying to get some critique that will give me some background into this film. Still one thing mystify me: why do some Thais want to boycott this film? Am I dense for not seeing the connection?
Finally, congrates to Khun Apichartpong for winning such a prestigious prize ‘for Thailand’. You did great.
Thanks for the support
unfortunately i am based in Bangkok and i cannot be up there following the events but i really think the provinces are now where the politicize core of the country is. So upcoming graduate students, research in Isaan is the answer. It seems to me that there is, indeed, a lack of information and flows coming from there, at least for a couple of reasons.
a) I know of at least another foreign academic, and at least three groups of Thai academics and Thai videographers doing the kind of work that my blog only begins to do. Problem is what also some comments here show: paranoia, fear, and somehow perception that by going out talking to people somebody could pop out at your door and “take out a good guy.” So people wait for a more safe time to voice their observations.
b) Many Thai Ngos, which historically have had a massive role in times of protests collecting reports, stories, facts and documenting, in this case seem to many biased, lacking faith in the “villagers”, or just not particularly interested in fulfilling this role.
“<i.Government progranda is getting into the classrooms of 5-9 year olds, a new low for Thialand.”
No, it’s always been that low, it’s just been less obvious.
By the time a child is 12 years old, their value system is almost developed which will be very hard to change when adolescent and adult.
This is the secret to propagandising people, get them while they’re children and they’re tuned to accept what they’re told by authority figures rather than question it.
As the Jesuits used to say “give me the child and I’ll give you the man”.
Perhaps a document can be prepared charging the King, the royal family, monarchists, and this government with “lese les gens.” I googled the French word for “people.” They all have “injured” the people so let’s start our own witch hunt and we can also make a list of the crimes against the people.
As I’ve always said, Thailand is 1984 meets The Wizard of Oz.
And Abhisit is asking for suggestions? We can add Kafka.
The ruling class just doesn’t get it. They have no idea that they are unwittingly solidifying and deepening opposition. This ideological cleansing is a gift to the development of democracy here.
“This man has done much more for Thailand than Thaksin will ever do.”
Well, in this you differ from most of the commentators who have researched the matter much better than you or I.
They are pretty much all agreed that Thaksin was ousted because he did more for the poor in Thailand in his first term of government than the king had done in 60 years, and the palace was concerned that Thaksin would supplant the king in the hearts of Thais.
There was no high and lofty motive for the coup, just jealousy from a jealous and cunning man.
Your conditioning has kicked in. You need to examine why it is that you think you ‘know’ this stuff, I suspect you’ll find that you ‘know ‘ it because you have been told it. Repeatedly. This is how conditioning is done.
Neither Apisit nor Thaksin can control himself, let alone the rest of Thailand. Actually, this is the problem with Thai politicians. Their public sense is miniscule.
At my child’s school in Bangkok yesterday (in mor 2) the teacher asked all the children from red shirt families to put up their hands. The class was then told that the red shirts were the ones who burned down the city. They were also told that the army will shoot red supporters. Apparently this happened in many classes. Government progranda is getting into the classrooms of 5-9 year olds, a new low for Thialand.
We can say that Bhumibolism and royalism are equally stagnant. Look out for any propaganda designed to augment the image of this king. Try to see through this glorified image. Many Thais are not wise to this trick and come to worship this one-eye human as a deity. All I can say is “Poor Thailand”.
@ laoguy (9): Fear is the glue that holds Thailand together. You are on the mark.
Having listen to interview given by ordinary Thai and TV/Radio personalities over the past few days, this was the impression I got. No one dare to speak out against the govt. or the Establishment.
At present, anyone voicing a sympathetic remark for the Red Shirt is branded as a traitor and un-Thai.
@Jim Taylor (10): The witch hunt is on. The next victim I predict is Khun Apichartpong, the Director of “Uncle Boonmee”. There are now groups asking Thai to boycott his films. I don’t think he care one way or another as his films were always in trouble with the Ministry of Culture.
All the talk now are of reconcilliation. How can be reconcile when one can only hear one side of the story?
Spot on. fear is the essential and principle ingredient in Thai society and in Thai culture.
Shameful though it is, Thai society and culture have been carefully moulded to suit the purposes of just a few at the top. The same few at the top who are now desperately trying to cling on to power.
But the Thai people are waking from their propaganda-unduced dream and are aghast at what they have become.
Univeristies are big institutions, and like any big institution in Thailand, Chula is split, though not 50/50. To call them government stooges and is ridiculous. The problem now is this elevated level of rhetoric, vitriol, and propaganda. The Thai government has mastered it, but the red supporters are joining in. It makes it harder to find some kind of solution.
This link has been blocked in Thailand – it cannot be accessed via New Mandala. It turns up the fern. However, if you type the url into the proxy service http://cooloo.org/ it should come up. This has been a recommendation from PPT. So please in future give urls as links so that they can be cut and pasted if necessary.
Well, the Abhisit government, in all of its quaint naivete thinks that by uttering the magic spell ‘terrorist’. the rest of the world will panic and extradite Thaksin to Thailand.
What we’ve got at posts 1 and 2 is the usual vacous, patronising, ignorant, and stupid attitudes of neo-colonials.
Believe me, I know – I grew up among them !
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Why aren’t more Thai social scientists doing this?
Listening to the rural poor is very important. That is subtley a little different from talking to them. It is however a little difficult as in general strangers are not always privvy to what people really think or even to real discussion with a lot of tell them what they want to hear. This can also be further complicated by who else is present too. The presence of a person known with affiliation to one group or another who is known to have some influence can create conditions for a complete 180 of real feelings. However listening is important.
By the way talking (or better still listening) to the red shirts and talking to the rural poor are two different things. We shouldnt after all be assuming all rural poor are red or assuming all reds are rural poor or even that all rural poor hail from only parts of certain regions.
The urban poor also deserve listening to as their needs and wants can often be very different form the rural poor. And within this group there are at least three subtley different sub sets: those who still regard themselves as villagers making some temporary cash away from home, those that were born into urban areas as poor and those that have left the villages and are trying to establish themselves as urban dwellers without having to return to village life.
Forgetting the power struggles and usually oversimplified scenarios of what the poltical struggle in Thailand is about and we can actually see there are lots of dynamics in play and many groups that may at a certain time have a shared interest but that which really have as much in difference in needs and wants as in common. This is a complicated time of transition for Thailand and as Thailand was not colonised and isnt going through the transition in the same time frame as other uncolonized nations it is almost a unique case study as their are groups and forces that are different from other places currently going through change. Maybe that in part is what makes it so complicated, difficult to predict, understand and so very interesting. Apologies for finally going off topic.
Chula academics call for “return of justice and academic freedom”
Re Uncle Boonmee film:
I have been trying to get some critique that will give me some background into this film. Still one thing mystify me: why do some Thais want to boycott this film? Am I dense for not seeing the connection?
Finally, congrates to Khun Apichartpong for winning such a prestigious prize ‘for Thailand’. You did great.
Enemies, foreign and domestic
@Mike 4, this gotta be verified by more sources!
Enemies, foreign and domestic
as I’m 100% Thai..
I should keep my mouth shut.
or they might hunting and burning me :((
Why aren’t more Thai social scientists doing this?
Thanks for the support
unfortunately i am based in Bangkok and i cannot be up there following the events but i really think the provinces are now where the politicize core of the country is. So upcoming graduate students, research in Isaan is the answer. It seems to me that there is, indeed, a lack of information and flows coming from there, at least for a couple of reasons.
a) I know of at least another foreign academic, and at least three groups of Thai academics and Thai videographers doing the kind of work that my blog only begins to do. Problem is what also some comments here show: paranoia, fear, and somehow perception that by going out talking to people somebody could pop out at your door and “take out a good guy.” So people wait for a more safe time to voice their observations.
b) Many Thai Ngos, which historically have had a massive role in times of protests collecting reports, stories, facts and documenting, in this case seem to many biased, lacking faith in the “villagers”, or just not particularly interested in fulfilling this role.
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
I am very sure,what ever how good suggestions we are trying, if person behind him is not “say yes”. It is never happened.
International court is only way the ploblems will be solve .
Enemies, foreign and domestic
@Mike (4):
“<i.Government progranda is getting into the classrooms of 5-9 year olds, a new low for Thialand.”
No, it’s always been that low, it’s just been less obvious.
By the time a child is 12 years old, their value system is almost developed which will be very hard to change when adolescent and adult.
This is the secret to propagandising people, get them while they’re children and they’re tuned to accept what they’re told by authority figures rather than question it.
As the Jesuits used to say “give me the child and I’ll give you the man”.
Enemies, foreign and domestic
Perhaps a document can be prepared charging the King, the royal family, monarchists, and this government with “lese les gens.” I googled the French word for “people.” They all have “injured” the people so let’s start our own witch hunt and we can also make a list of the crimes against the people.
As I’ve always said, Thailand is 1984 meets The Wizard of Oz.
And Abhisit is asking for suggestions? We can add Kafka.
The ruling class just doesn’t get it. They have no idea that they are unwittingly solidifying and deepening opposition. This ideological cleansing is a gift to the development of democracy here.
Why aren’t more Thai social scientists doing this?
@ Puak (2):
“This man has done much more for Thailand than Thaksin will ever do.”
Well, in this you differ from most of the commentators who have researched the matter much better than you or I.
They are pretty much all agreed that Thaksin was ousted because he did more for the poor in Thailand in his first term of government than the king had done in 60 years, and the palace was concerned that Thaksin would supplant the king in the hearts of Thais.
There was no high and lofty motive for the coup, just jealousy from a jealous and cunning man.
Your conditioning has kicked in. You need to examine why it is that you think you ‘know’ this stuff, I suspect you’ll find that you ‘know ‘ it because you have been told it. Repeatedly. This is how conditioning is done.
Ambassador Kriangsak in the SMH
Truth – 16
“Paying back or not paying back early was irrevelant to prosperity.”
Honestly, do some analysis.
We did, and did you?
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
Neither Apisit nor Thaksin can control himself, let alone the rest of Thailand. Actually, this is the problem with Thai politicians. Their public sense is miniscule.
Enemies, foreign and domestic
At my child’s school in Bangkok yesterday (in mor 2) the teacher asked all the children from red shirt families to put up their hands. The class was then told that the red shirts were the ones who burned down the city. They were also told that the army will shoot red supporters. Apparently this happened in many classes. Government progranda is getting into the classrooms of 5-9 year olds, a new low for Thialand.
On Bhumibolists and Royalists
We can say that Bhumibolism and royalism are equally stagnant. Look out for any propaganda designed to augment the image of this king. Try to see through this glorified image. Many Thais are not wise to this trick and come to worship this one-eye human as a deity. All I can say is “Poor Thailand”.
Chula academics call for “return of justice and academic freedom”
@ laoguy (9): Fear is the glue that holds Thailand together. You are on the mark.
Having listen to interview given by ordinary Thai and TV/Radio personalities over the past few days, this was the impression I got. No one dare to speak out against the govt. or the Establishment.
At present, anyone voicing a sympathetic remark for the Red Shirt is branded as a traitor and un-Thai.
@Jim Taylor (10): The witch hunt is on. The next victim I predict is Khun Apichartpong, the Director of “Uncle Boonmee”. There are now groups asking Thai to boycott his films. I don’t think he care one way or another as his films were always in trouble with the Ministry of Culture.
All the talk now are of reconcilliation. How can be reconcile when one can only hear one side of the story?
Chula academics call for “return of justice and academic freedom”
@Laoguy: (9)
“Fear is the glue that holds Thailand together. ”
Spot on. fear is the essential and principle ingredient in Thai society and in Thai culture.
Shameful though it is, Thai society and culture have been carefully moulded to suit the purposes of just a few at the top. The same few at the top who are now desperately trying to cling on to power.
But the Thai people are waking from their propaganda-unduced dream and are aghast at what they have become.
Chula academics call for “return of justice and academic freedom”
Univeristies are big institutions, and like any big institution in Thailand, Chula is split, though not 50/50. To call them government stooges and is ridiculous. The problem now is this elevated level of rhetoric, vitriol, and propaganda. The Thai government has mastered it, but the red supporters are joining in. It makes it harder to find some kind of solution.
Enemies, foreign and domestic
This link has been blocked in Thailand – it cannot be accessed via New Mandala. It turns up the fern. However, if you type the url into the proxy service http://cooloo.org/ it should come up. This has been a recommendation from PPT. So please in future give urls as links so that they can be cut and pasted if necessary.
Chula academics call for “return of justice and academic freedom”
Well, the Abhisit government, in all of its quaint naivete thinks that by uttering the magic spell ‘terrorist’. the rest of the world will panic and extradite Thaksin to Thailand.
It’s sad, but touching in a way really…
A curse on the enemies of Thaksin!
What we’ve got at posts 1 and 2 is the usual vacous, patronising, ignorant, and stupid attitudes of neo-colonials.
Believe me, I know – I grew up among them !
Enemies, foreign and domestic
Rather, the Thai monarchy is its own worst nenemy!