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The fundamental problem underlying the succession is that Thailand has few royalists, but many many Bhumibolists.
A Bhumibolist is one who loves and respects Bhumibol Adulyadej, King of Thailand. Hard royal work, great propaganda, and frequent use of lese majeste laws assure that the vast majority of Thais are Bhumibolists.
Love and respect for Bhumibol Adulyadej does not necessarily mean respect for the royal institution, including the constitutional succession and the constitutional prerogatives and responsibilities. In fact, a true Bhumibolist will grant him extra-constitutional prerogatives, under the assumption that the wise king can do no wrong, even though it might be unconstitutional. His interventions in 1976 and 1992 are good examples of this, as are his rejection of coups in the 1980s and his acceptance of other “righteous” coups. Many, but not all, Bhumibolists also bow before the extra-constitutional prerogatives of his network monarchy, specifically, the Privy Council. Privy Council chairman General Prem Tinsulanonda’s interventions prior to the 2006 coup are a controversial example of this. The continuing political role of the network monarchy will test some Bhumibolists, but will not reduce the core adoration that most feel for Bhumibol himself. Most Red Shirts are Bhumibolists, even though nearly all of them reject the role of the network monarchy.
Currently, Bhumibolists can claim that they are royalists, but the true test will be when he passes away. Will his extra-constitutional prerogatives pass on to his successor? Will the extra-constitutional powers of the network monarchy also be passed on? Or will Thailand’s 60 million Bhumibolists suddenly transform into strict monarchists, demanding that their monarch strictly abide by his constitutional responsibilities?
Only time will tell.
Chakrism is a fundamentalist religion replete with its sacred claims, unquestionable truths, rigid adherence, apostates, heretics, and violent enforcement by true believers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalism
I don’t think I’m the first to compare the Thai attacks on the foreign press with Muslim attacks on those who draw cartoons of the prophet. If you doubt the analogy, think of the verbal attacks on the Thai restaurant in the US that used a cartoon of the King several years ago, the various embassyies assailing any slight (apparently using the Iran model), or just imagine standing in downtown Bangkok with a critical cartoon of the old guy.
Bhumibolism seems like an accidental sect, or cult that has gained so much power it has cannibalized Chakrism and linked a long-term plan with a short-term guy. Turning this cult back into a country (and hopefully a democratic one) is the single biggest challenge facing Thailand.
I usually post under a different name, but this issue scares me so much I need to use an alias for my alias, even though I’m not in Thailand. Sounds like the cartoons of the prophet all over again.
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Oh my Buddha – not another invitation to bash the Crown Prince.
Give the man break !!
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Da Torpedo is neither a Bhumibolist or a Royalist. But most reds on the ground are Bhumbolists. I saw a moustached man with an old army jacket and long hair and a beret waving a red flag with a portrait of Che on it. We chatted and I subtly probed his views on the monarchy, thinking that this man was most obviously a republican revolutionary. Instead, he pointed to his beret: on it was the royal seal. “Thailand is nothing without our royal father,” he said with what seemed Luke sincerity. In Thailand even the revolutionaries can love Bhumibol.
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as worship of *** is inscribed on top of the thai constitution, not only criticism but also non-worship is severely sanctioned by law.
Thais have trapped themselves in a vicious circle by accepting to play this dangerous game, they therefore have to take responsibility for what happens to them now. Only the younger generation seem to want to avoid getting invoved in this relationship.
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Is it just me, but I’m sick and getting tired of the wanton use of the meaningless phrase ‘network monarchy’. Tell me, which royalty is not networked as it were? Duncan McCargo’s phrase, now adopted by a segment of self-styled ‘Thailand area specialists’, is just puffery; vacuous.
In any case, recent events point to the need for all those ‘specialists’ to re-write whatever they know about Thailand if they are to remain of any relevance.
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You guys are mad posting this stuff
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Something of essence is amiss in the New Mandala site. I could not put my finger on it before . . . but I could sense the strong anti-Thai establishment theme in New Mandala.
It is so strong New Mandala had lost the very essence of its humanity and decency.
Take a look at your current theme – – no mention, no highlight and a deliberate evasion of the devastation on lives and properties of the Thais as a result of the violence and rampage of the violent Reds.
Is the left-leaning politics of New Mandala so one-sided as to ignore the wrongs and dark side of the Thai Reds, a movement New Mandala so openly champions?
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Adoration of the monarchy in Thailand is fundamentally unstable. People must certainly be aware that they are descendants of conquered peoples. Phaya Chakri conquered their kingdoms, then the third Chakri king destroyed their capital of Vientiane, dispersing them throughout the hinterlands (Isaan) or enslaving them, sending some to build the canals in Bangkok, the Chao Phraya fortifications, the royal barges (all of these projects entailed vast casualties) and to work sugar plantations in the South. While they spent two hundred years in hardship, the Chakri house accumulated a fortune that has become one of the largest in the world. It would be surprising if they felt no resentment.
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Why do the red shirts have to be implicated in everything? There arguably has been a distinction between Bhumibolists and Royalists since before the UDD movement even came about.
Andrew and Nicholas, you should start a new open thread called “The Epic Flame Red Shirts Forum.” Meanwhile, there are many other areas of contemporary Thai studies that are worthy of exploration.
@obno1, how is this discussion of Bhumibolism and Royalism lese majeste?
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Del,
When the only point you can make is to criticize the medium, you are confirming the point I made at the top.
What is the connection between anti-establishment and having “lost the very essence of its humanity and decency.” I suspect that what you want to say is “this article is questioning my faith in Chakrism and you are an apostate”. If so, you are right. And there will be many more. Get used to it.
Why does every article have to deal with the reds. Isn’t the the collapse of the great cult a big enough issue to warrant its own story?
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I don’t think there are any serious studies to explain what “network monarchy” really is, the term was coined after McCargo extensively studied the southern problem, not Bangkok power play, which was practically non-existent at that time anyway.
It is a convenient term nevertheless, especially if you talk about “elites” opposition to Thaksin’s own network.
The limitation is that it fails to include the massive grass roots movement against Thaksin, and it implies that all decision making within this network is strictly one way, from the top, Handley’s book certainly helps to perpetuate this thinking.
So far people here are spending all their energy on building it into a working theory rather than trying to critically analyze its foundations.
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Del # 7 – that’s a bit rich :
everything you say could be turned around to apply to the Thai wealthy classes’ treatment of their poor.
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The Occidental Cult of Bhumibolism will end when the octogenarian and nonagenarian high priests in the privy council expire. According to insurance actuarial tables, that will be soon.
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It’s a false distinction, and you strain very much to try to define differences. No one in Thailand knows another monarch and monarchy but Bhumibol’s. So no one knows what it is like to support the institution beyond the person, or vice-versa. They are going to find out though.
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[Editor – NSF: Normally we probably wouldn’t allow this comment because of its abusive language. But I anticipate that right now it will be of wider interest and have, as such, allowed it through unedited.]
I can see that those white men who stick noses into Thai’s business ,and have tried to keep up do this stupid network with asshole Thaksin and his allies; you guys had better watch out your own domestic problems. White folks are just like the snakes spread world wild, especailly, those are waiting for a good time to jump into whenever see the chance. This’s call caucasian raptiles ! Go to fuck yourselves in hell !
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chris beale (#12) and someone else (#10),
That’s exactly my point.
The violent radical Reds had just committed a murderous rampage of arson, bombings and killings. And the recent devastation of Bangkok thereof is being compared to the 9/11 attack of New York city.
I am beginning to think that the comparison is very apt . There are common denominators in (a) the burnings/gutting of the buildings, and, (b) the attacks by remote commands by BinLaden and by Thaksin S. There is even a third denominator: the defenders of the vicious attacks cite righteousness as their justification. In the case of the AlQaeda attack, they cite the Koran. In the case of the May2010 Bangkok attacks, should the defenders cite New Mandala?
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The analogy with 9/11 is ludicrous, … and crule. 3000 innocent people died in WTC then – who many did in the “Thai (former) WTC? And how many at the hands of Thai military, on the order of the Thai “elite”?
The only thing that would make me change my mind from supporting the UDD protest/upprising of 2010 is if any sustance can be given to repeated claims that anti-Reds (Thai government, Thai media, some Western media) is the whole thing was masterminded by Thaksin, with orders which buildings to burn, orders for UDD snipers to shoot civilians, orders to provoke a massacre on the peaceful protesters by the military, so that a coup/revolution (I have read both versions) would take place to let him return. How credible is this?
Here is another analogy, more pertinant for the theme of this thread:
May 19 2010 – October 6 1976:
Major causes of protest: social injustice, fundamental non-democracy of Thailand (both cases)
Justification of crackdown/massacre/repression: “It is not a sin to kill communists” (1976) – “Put down the damn terrorists” (2010)
Trigger of hatred from the Thai populace: “They want to bring down the monarchy” (both cases)
Role of Palace: (at least) condoning the massacre
Outcome: official cover up, suppression – radicalization (of student movement, “red shirts”)
Yes, there was not “Thaksin factor” in 1976. Also: 1976 was the beginning of long dark years for Thailand – I think we all hope that it will be different this time!
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Don’t forget that under current condition where lese majeste law being use to suppress the open criticism of the beloved monarch, everyone in Thailand is forced to be a Bhumibolist.
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Del,
Your are not making exactly the same point, you are making the opposite one.
I have said that Chakrism is a fundamentalist religion or cult that is the single largest barrier to returning Thailand to some form of normalcy, as defined by the economic and social platform Thais have had historically and how other successful countries in their peer group operate.
I am claiming that the red shirt movement has as a root the natural and righteous causes that the oppressed experience in any circumstance in which a dictatorship in its doomed attempts to survive increases the level of dominance it has had on all other entities in society (except in this case for the military and feudal elite who they have made deals with).
I have applied the Muslim analogy to the Chakrists who I have claimed are a fundamentalist cult, not to the red shirts.
We do agree that the reds have flaws, that they also are overly personality driven, and that Thaksin’s role is important and negative. But that seems to be it.
Regarding your 9/11, Bin Laden, Al Queda analogies, I agree with Jordon that they are ludicrous and crude. I would also consider adding disingenuous and malicious, but that would be speculation.
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@Rose:
“I can see that those white men who stick noses into Thai’s business ,and have tried to keep up do this stupid network with asshole Thaksin and his allies; you guys had better watch out your own domestic problems. White folks are just like the snakes spread world wild, especailly, those are waiting for a good time to jump into whenever see the chance. This’s call caucasian raptiles ! Go to fuck yourselves in hell !”
Nice.
Have a wander through downtown Bangkok. See all the nice buildings to western design? Paid for with western money.
See all the nice western dressed business folk?
See al the Thai hi-so wearing fashions the rest of the (western) world grew out of 40 years ago? Just discovered in Thailand.
See all the nice western-based businesses helping to enrich Thai ingrates like Rose?
See all the street signs, in Thai and in English?
See the results of Rose’s western fine education in her comments?
What would happen if western influence were to disappear overnight, western countries and the western people you hate stopped buying Thai rice and stopped coming to visit the Thai brothels you populate with the daughters of your uncared-for poor.
Thailand would return to the stone age Rose, so keep a civil tongue in your uneducated and foul-mouthed head.
Oh, and try to get a clue somewhere would you – if you aren;t sure where to get one, ask a farang.
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@15 – your comment is entertaining, thank you 🙂
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I failed to get a response in another thread, so I’ll try here instead. Can anyone direct me to an article which offers a balanced and detailed academic analysis of Handley’s book? Many thanks.
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Peter, you might just as well ask for Richard Dawkins in a church library.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBDm-jA3N80
The common thread between AlQaeda’s NY 9/11 attack and The Reds Bangkok May/2010 attack are its ‘venom-hate’ theme (sample Red utube Burn Bangkok theme attached.)
Bangkok was fortunate (thanks to military intervention) that lives lost did not nearly approach the 3,000 innocents killed at NY . . but those violent Red radicals hard murder in their eyes and the deadly determination to carry that out. (And to the Reds sympathizers telling me that PM Abhisit/military provoked the arsons and rampage I’d reply you’ve been radicalized too.)
The main of my post above (#7) is to remind you all NM gentlemen/ladies that your non-violent Reds had: (1) murdered and killed and maimed, (2) gutted 39 Bangkok buildings (3) caused untold miseries to the survivors of the victims and to tens of thousands deprived of their jobs. (And to the Reds sympathizers who kept repeating that insurance covered the losses . . . I say you’ve lost not only your minds but also your souls).
How on earth could NM cheer on these murderous Reds after the Bangkok burnings in May 2010?
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Rose – thanks for your well thought out comments.
By the way, what are your views on Thailand, past, present and future?
I’d love to hear them.
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Peter #22 :
Grant Evans wrote a good review of Handley, in my opinion.
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Rose shocked me and Stuart’s reply is really harsh. Farangs and Thais are alike. We are all human who can be both virtuous and malicious. It’s personal and not racial.
Also, Thais do indeed benefit from Farangs’ capital and technology however, I am certain that we have paid back more than what we took. Perhaps, one of the determinants to this chaos could also be that we did not implement the Western ideology appropriately but then who else can be blamed but ourselves!
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@Rose nr. 15
This is our burden:-). Excellent grammar by the way.
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If not yet clear my #7, #16 and #24, the ideology of the Reds, for the benefit of its New Mandala cheerers, could be summed up in three words:
Burn Bangkok Burn
Right?
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McCargo made it quite clear he believed that Thaksin was envious of what he calls the “network monarchy” and wanted to take over large chunks of it for himself. He started in the South of which he had limited knowledge and where he naively thought it would easy to use the police to grab control of everything including the lucrative cash flows from smuggling and other criminal activities. He gave the police the green light to use violence to get quick results in establishing their influence over the military. The series of atrocities committed against Muslims in the South that followed, as well as the thousands of extrajudicial killings in the sham “war against drugs” foreshadowed the cult of violence we see today as a the core strategy of the red shirts, following the Maoist manual to use violence as an effective political tool. Also in line with the manual the adoring faithful are indoctrinated to repeat simple and pithy but meaningless maxims, such as “class war against amats”, “double standards”, “Thaksin helps the poor” etc but cannot answer simple questions such as, “What is the red shirts’ manifesto to improve the situation of the rural poor?”, or explain the contradiction that their political arm is essentially a feudal structure of corrupt politicians dedicated to exploiting the poor.
Perhaps we should have a thread entitled, “Adoring Thaksinistas (Foreign and Thai), the Cult of Violence and the Money Trail” t0 balance this one.
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That’s truth. Many Thais are Bhumibolist.
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anyone got a link please for the Paul Handley pdf?
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Portman,
I don’t disagree with much of what you have to say in comment #30 above. But hasn’t this all been reported on at a level that could be described as obsessive and omnipresent?
I do think that Thaksin’s many flaws need to be aired fully and fairly, which strangely hasn’t happened. I think he is a big part of the problem and probably not part of the solution.
But the other side of the equation has really not been discussed at all. These threads are a very helpful way of addressing that imbalance.
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Nick! How could you post this article written by an anonymous on this edutional website?
If so, can I anonymously say that New Mandala is part of Red-shirt Terrorist group against Thailand funded by Australian National University?
Seriously, this forum standard has hit the new low. It’s not about education in South East Asia anymore. It’s more like a group of hatred people against Thailand.
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Come on you New Mandala guys. Acknowledge your conscience for a moment.
And declare your condemnation of the radical violent elements of the Reds movement, and, acknowledge that the Thailand Reds movement ‘ideology of hatred’ exists and is nurtured by their mastermind Thaksin Shinawatra.
Otherwise as pointed out by ‘I’m not that anonymous’ (#34) – ‘It (New Mandala) is more like a group of hatred people against Thailand.’
To jolt New Mandala’s conscience further:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBDm-jA3N80
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The author of the “On Bhumibolists and Royalists” is a Thai, educated in Thailand, and living and working in Thailand. For reasons that should be obvious, the author had to disguise his identity.
The author has no hatred of Thais or Thailand.
The author did not and does not condone violence or terrorism attributed to neither the yellow or red camps.
The distinction between Bhumibolists and Royalists predates the yellow/red color coding of Thai politics. There are Bhumibolists (who might or might not be Royalists) in both camps, and there are Royalists (who are not Bhumibolists) in both camps.
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While ASTV is permitted to keep spewing hatred, the opposition (which once upon a time won the last elections, a fact not attributable to 100% of vote buying), UDD websites and their TV channel were shut down.
Central World is fully insured. And as was to be expected, the rich mall owners will get compensation from losses due to protests.
Arson and terrorism = now it’s all clear and easy to understand. It’s Animal Farm time – again.
Handley published a paper on the Privy Council in 2008. apparently, certain powers wanted to extend lese majeste laws to council members, too. Way to go: extend the curfew for a year / extend the lese majeste punishments / make it official that no Thai can get a lese majeste pardon (unlike many foreigners) / adopt the PAd’s interpretation of “democracy” and never again look back or face an electorate disrupting politicking by voting “wrongly”.
The brainwashing begins at school level – and it’s all about the institution, not single personalities. Interestingly, Paul Handley’s banned book triggered a severe response by officialdom. But they failed to find a lot of fault with the facts. But then, it’s all about BELIFS and make-belief, isn’t it?
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HM the King’s new legend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMtRCRAxq_M
See for yourself.
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Leeyiankun: I wonder if the Dalai Lama praised HMK before or after Thailand denied a visa to the DL’s sister?
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[…] http://www.newmandala.org/2010/05/21/on-bhumibolists-and-royalists/ […]
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As CRES continues to pursue the members of the far-reaching anti-monarchy conspiracy outlined in the “conspiracy map” (still under-emphasized in the media) we will probably see a transition from emphasis on strictures on speech and the expression of criticism to the arousal of suspicion of republican tendencies solely due to insufficiently zealous expression of pro-monarchy thinking. If you aren’t proclaiming your love from the mountaintops it could very well mean that you are harboring some doubts or otherwise impure thoughts. Whereas wearing the wrong color is an issue today, not wearing the correct color (badge, slogan, decal on your car, etc.) could in the future also be a problem. Refraining from criticism will no longer be enough; in fact, it probably isn’t enough now. Next time Pongpat Wachirabanjong makes a speech, you’d better remember to cry.
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We can say that Bhumibolism and royalism are equally stagnant. Look out for any propaganda designed to augment the image of this king. Try to see through this glorified image. Many Thais are not wise to this trick and come to worship this one-eye human as a deity. All I can say is “Poor Thailand”.
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Peter @22: Kevin Hewison has two reviews of Handley’s book:
http://www.ufv.ca/jhb/Volume_4/Volume_4_Hewison.pdf
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all?content=10.1080/00472330701652026
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[…] in contemporary Thailand, even the king’s remaining supporters tend to be mostly “Bhumibolists” – who respect him personally because of his perceived goodness, dedication and […]
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