Comments

  1. G. Hopper says:

    By the way, … can’t comment on this one due to LM law.

  2. G. Hopper says:

    @Anita : Questions asked by Thai middle-class, why burned the buildings, etc. Some even cursed or scolled the Red. The propaganda made by CRES seems work, middle-class think those Red deserve death execution by soldiers

    Answer: by Thai middle-class
    1) Building can be re-built, but Life cannot be resurrection.
    2) Soldiers should not blowing Thai people brain off their head.
    3) Thai middle-class should stop thinking where they will go for shopping.

    and yes, with no surprise CRES propaganda works on university educated Thai middle-class. See? Education doesn’t mean much here for some people.

  3. Mick says:

    Downer seems to have nailed it.

    For peace to reign in Thailand, the elites must accept the will of the majority of the electorate whether they personally feel the chosen candidates are evil or not.

    Maintaining power through the traditional yellow tactics of military coups, emergency laws, coup installed judiciary, coup written constitutions, government controlled media, snipers, political assasinations etc etc is no longer considered acceptable to the increasingly sophisticated thai electorate.

    Until the elitists can come to terms with this reality, ever increasing quantities of blood will be spilled as the electorate fights for their democratic rights.

    I hope the elites start to read some non Thai history books soon so they can gain an understanding of what typically happens when an elite clique tries to illigitimately and violently hang on to the reigns of power for that little bit too long…

  4. Simon says:

    A royal intervention isn’t going to happen. The immediate crisis is past and there’s nothing sufficiently desperate to intervene in.

    Articles on this site tend to portray the King as an an anti-democratic and political figure who meddles behind the scenes and occasionally directly. I think you have this totally wrong.

    He does what good head of states are supposed to do under this form of government: He intervenes as the measure of *last* resort, when all other options have failed.

    We still have a working government, it’s their job to sort this out.

  5. joy says:

    Submarine, I think we need your blog on nation & nationalism now. Are you on twitter? All Thai TV channels have stuff about “Thais love Thais “going on most of the time now.. for harmony, for peace etc..I admit i have read too much stuff from here (NM) and elsewhere to believe that what they are doing is not part of the establishment’s propaganda..but then when one lives in Thailand, and people around you , your close friends included, are mostly against the red-shirts, sometimes it’s hard not to be wavering or influenced by them.

  6. M. Packman says:

    Today’s office gossip was more mournful than yesterday’s. Ms. Drama Queen was upset as she spoke of the burning of the grand temple of consumerism. We all shared memories of walking those glitzy aisles in the good ol’ days. Ms. Oldtimer reminsiced about the endless selection of clothes at Zen, and I described the regional Japanese exhibitions at Isetan. Ms. DQ then started counting off luxury cosmetic brands on her fingers. “Don’t you wish you were there right now?” I teased.

    “Yes!” She seemed surprised that I even had to ask.

    “Next to the ‘buffaloes’ and ‘home-out’ people?” (That last is an inside joke at the expense of another coworker.)

    “Of course! I could take everything I want!”

    Oh humans. Never change.

  7. Mick says:

    Hi Erewhon,
    Yes I do pay taxes in Thailand, and have done so for many years. It’s interesting that you accuse me of unconditional support for Thaksin, a wildly misguided assumption. In fact, it is my opinion that Thaksin deserves to spend many years in prison for his crimes, right alongside the likes of Abbhisit. The rule of law should prevail for both men. As I pointed out quite clearly in my previous post, both men have committed heinous crimes against the Thai nation and are ‘equally unfit’ to rule.

    The point which appears to have gone over your head is the fact that what you and I personally feel about Thai leaders amounts to a couple of opinions. What really matters is what the bulk of the Thai electorate feels and time and time again they have voted out the yellows, to sit back and watch the yellows leap up using the military and or a coup installed judiciary to abduct the reigns of power. The inevitable result, is of course, the uprising we see across Thailand today. After repeatedly going through the electoral process to yet again watch an elite minority steal the reigns of power, the reds are desperate and have quite simply run out of options and patience.

    My point is this:
    For peace to reign in Thailand, the elites must accept the will of the majority of the electorate whether they feel their chosen candidates are evil or not. Maintaining power through the traditional yellow tactics of military coups, emergency laws, coup installed judiciary, coup written constitutions, government controlled media, snipers, political assasinations etc etc is no longer acceptable to the increasingly sophisticated thai electorate. Until they can come to terms with this reality, ever increasing quantities of blood will be spilled as Thais fight for their democratic rights. If the elite still continue to live in denial and deny the rights of the electorate, blood will continue to flow long after Thaksin drops dead of old age because the issue of democracy and freedom are infinitely bigger and more powerful than any man..

    As for your friend who lost his possessions in world plaza, I genuinely feel sorry for him. What happened to him is unjust and I wish it never happened. But if he walks outside today and meets the grieving mother of a stone throwing teenager who was snipered through the head from a distance of 200 meters at the bequest of an unelected government, I hope he is open minded enough to realize that things for him and his family could be a great deal worse.

  8. Nuomi says:

    On the issue of legit successor:

    Actually there are two lines of succession for the Chakri dynasty. The current line, and one other, with rights to the throne. So the current CP is not the only candidate. Unfortunately, this was from an old Thai documentary I watched a long time ago and cannot at the moment recall the name of the other line. Anyone here has any info on that?

  9. Simon says:

    @SmithJones: Your comments about government media censorship are false and ridiculous.

    The main constraint to news publishing at the moment is actually red attacks on journalists and arson of media buildings. Many media companies have been forced to relocate their staff to temporary premises.

    Post-surrender, journalists have been forced to remove their green armbands and hide their cameras because they are being targeted by the red mob.

  10. Nuomi says:

    By that time, the People were already winning.
    Actually, every time I recall that picture, I wonder to myself, What if the King never interfered?
    Sometimes, I still think that interference robbed the people of their victory after all their courageous fight. The King reduced a People’s fight into a petty struggle between two childish egoistic generals. As a result, the magnitude of what happened, all those blood spilled, was trivialized.
    Add to that insult, the army emerged from the entire fiasco relatively unscathed, and a mere 12 years later, overthrew the first truly democratically elected government to win by a landslide out.

  11. kevina says:

    Stang, so you don’t think an election can end the conflict and violence, do you?

    If so, is there any other solution you would like to suggest besides suppressing the demonstration with bullets, or saying “Dissolve and Go Away!” to the protestors?

    Election is not a bad thing. Actually, it is just opposite. Simply put, more often the government is elected, more creditability it has.

  12. Nuomi says:

    SmithJones:
    Why don’t just walk down to a Thai eatery near you and order a meal or two? Chances are the cooks and the waitresses would be pro-red. They might be able to help out.

  13. asiavox says:

    A fresh election if taking place, must be monitored by an international force like UN to ensure that there are no election frauds.
    If any pro “Thaksin” parties win, there will always be claims of election frauds, and “Yellow Shirt” will protest with more destructive actions.
    But I think this is all wishful thinking because the current Thai government will not want to take the risk, knowing that they do not have the majority vote.
    The elites and the middle class people in Bangkok always think that farmers or people in rural provinces are uneducated people and should not have the rights to vote. What they forgotten is that this is the information age, people are more well informed and knowledgeable than 3 decades ago. Internet, mobile phones, Televisions are everywhere in Thailand, they cannot control by the old ways anymore.

  14. Nuomi says:

    Gin Walker:
    No, Ahbisit did not offer the Nov 14 elections from the beginning. Ahbisit always said that holding earlier elections is not the solution. He is actually correct in saying that since the PAD already announced that PAD will take to the streets again IF anyone they percieve is pro-Taksin win. Simply put, no one else can expect to win the next election and run the country if the PAD (and the hidden backers) do not approve. The Nov 14 election offer was offered after the first failed attempt to clear the protesters, and then it was withdrawn, not negotiated. The offer works as a PR attempt to show the international stage ‘hey we tried to negotiate but they refused’. PM Ahbisit could have continued working on negotiating. There are already cracks in the ranks of the reds and the moderates like Veera are willing. PM Ahbisit could have marginalized the hardliners, and gave Thailand a chance at a fresh start at fresh elections on Nov 14 at that point. Then he withdrew the offer, giving the hardliners a stronger hold and led the entire red protest down this tragic route.

    Then there is the question why the haste for new elections? Why can’t some of them wait for Nov? This depends on how powerful one thinks is the army’s influence in Thai politics. Some believe it has always been the case that whomever the army support stays as PM. Note then that in Sept, Ahbisit gets to name the next head of the Thai Army. The current head is viewed as mild compared to a number of the ones joggling to replace him. Hence the reason why some of the reds wanted the elections before September.

  15. LesAbbey says:

    Nuomi – 12

    You make it sound like the TRT was a brand new party that no longer needed to behave badly during elections and that 2001 was a watershed moment. It could have been if Thaksin had built the party from its own rural bases, but in most places he didn’t do this. He took a short cut. He bought out existing parties and provincial influential people. It was the same old guys with a new sticker. Mazdas with Ford logos.

  16. rattawit says:

    Additional to this main topic writer Nicholas Farrelly and all Stuart Goddard and Athita comments.

    I have read all your comments and feel so interested about the information you got from your “insider sources” or something but i really doubted too that how can you know the things you wrote down here are correct,
    how can you know what was happening in the night on 18 years ago such as who spoke this or that or the King wait for the situation to be ripped enough to handle with and made him as a royal peacemaker… how can you know that???

    And for this situation, in your opinion, you hope to see the King play his role again , dont you? or do something? i really dont understand your purpose in this passage.

    I think when we want to talk about this situation which concern to another people whether he is a king, we has to know exactly want we are talking and must be sure that all that information we talk or speak out is true. You wrote it down, you finished it but people who effected by your comment cant defend himself, so you have to have responsibility more….

    Im sure what you guys are talking here, you dont know whether its the fact, You said as you heard like that then put your idea in, like CNN news in situation, then you walk away and let another body get dirty and try so hard to clean himself later.

    All i can say is the present situation is different from 18 years ago in general, yes we still have the same regime as the Constitutional Monarchy which many think its Absolute Monarchy because they think that the King still enjoys his power in politics …My question is How Can You Knoiw That???How Can Ungprakorn Know That? I understand this…Its like we believe that bad Thaksin support the red shirt to domolish Monarchy,, but how can we know? and you guys who dont believe will laugh on this things..well now we are the same that we dont know the fact, we just heard from someone and guess..

    Have you ever know tthat one King of England used to veto the draft from the parliament?, do you ever know that one Queen of England used to revoke the goverenment?>>>if you know , then do you ever think why???

    You should learn more about the role of Manarchy in kind of this regime. Monarchy has to be political neutral, but they still maintain powers to handle the country in order to keep peace or unlock the dead end political situation sometime (1975 Australian Consitutional crisis)

    what King Bhumibol did 18 years ago, if you will open your mind, has only purpose to stop the blood situation cos he has to try to stop the situation, bring society back in peace and yes he has to wait till the time is ripped enough for all the sectors in Thailand feel that they are stucked in the situation and want it to stop. What will happend if the King come out but he cant stop turmoil? For this situation, its not the same like the past the King cant do anything cos there is a large group of people want to demolish monarchy as you can see that they have tried wisely to drag the King into this situation since first time that asking for Thaksin amnesty and later that they ask the king to stop the government session to remove the protestor.
    I ask you, which side the King should take? red or Gov.? he cant choose, right? So what will happen if he speak that…red shirt please go back to your home.That means thae King choose to stand on Gov.side or if he say the Gov. you must stop . That means he choose the red who break the positive law. So what do you want? and next question is if the King speak out but the situation still continues, does that mean the King has no moral power to be the King anymore or not?

    I think you have full absolute right to say what you want but before you speak you should think hard about consequence. Though you are not the correspondent like CNN but you still have to take responsibility for what you have written down. And this is my idea on this situation.

    Last is I dont ow much knowledge you have about Thailand or Thai society or culture or our history, if you realise that you dont know much enough, please think twice before your give your opinion. Its dangerous and irresponsible so much to pretend you know well about this country, I ve never put my comment in situation in Greece, Turkmenistan, North Korea, Nepal, USA, Spain or any country in this world if i am not sure that i know it well.

    Thank you and sorry for my poor skill in English.

  17. SmithJones says:
  18. unfaithfulreader says:

    re Athita No. 8: The 1992 broadcast by the princess was not on CNN, it was on one of the Thai TV channels (just one, at first, probably MCOT, the feeling was that they managed to sneak it past the army). The prince, who was in Korea, had his own broadcast a day or two later.

  19. Joe F says:

    I agree with Mr Downer that Abhisit would probably lose an election if one were called today but any debate about such an issue should consider 2 important points: 1. Anupong will retire in September and his successor appointed – who this is is very important especially when put in context of succession; and 2. the budget needs to be passed and allowed to run for a few months so that money can be allocated and ROI be realised by those in power. This helps to understand why Abhisit offered an election in November and not before.

  20. laoguy says:

    Re: CNN vid. Hey come on! “Out of the mouth’s of babes.” Ok, so in this case the babe is a bimbo but her elegantly “concise” overview of recent Thai political history is basically correct in detail. The king failed Thailand once again.
    The Thai blogs are foaming over this video because of the cavalier presentation of the monarch and the dilettantes here at NM are miffed at an airheads lack of “nuance”. Nuance unfortunately these days means sophistry supported by an sly weasel political position.