Anyone with yellow mind set will said that, no matter where they from, I went to the protest site every day after work never once that I got ask for my ID card. Anyway we should work this logic backward a bit, there were around 2-3000 protesters during noon, the number balloon to 80,000 by 10 and then go down to around 20-30,000 before morning. and then to 2,000 lever again. If what she said is true, then we shouldn’t see this huge fluctuation in protesters throughout the day.
Last question, how much do you think your life worth if you know that one day your life will be at risk of getting shot at?
Yesterday, an acquaintance of my wife from a small village in Petchabun told her that about half of the people in her village support the red shirts. Some went to Bangkok to protest.
They were paid to do so. Their ID cards were also taken as a guarantee against them leaving. Some in recent days have tried to leave the protest site and been refused the return of their ID cards to do so.
My wife has no reason to believe that this woman works for military Psych. Ops or is part of a network of paid government propagandists. Nor is my wife either, by the way; at least, as far as I know, she isn’t.
The conversation was had randomly, while talking about the current situation in Bangkok.
To whomever think that this action is the acceptable for the Thai government to do:
I can understand why you would have this mentality. If you are in Thailand and only able to consume the Thai News (24 hours) and Government announcement (8-10 times a day) repeating things that they want you to know, even has the VDO to support their theory, it’s hard not to believe them.
One sided news
Double Standard
Triple forces: Military, Police,…and the sky power
Government may success in this operation beautifully…
Today, the government ordered the use of force to disperse the peaceful demonstrators at Rajprasong intersection and accusing me as the one who rejected the negotiation. I would like to make the statement as follows:
1. I have never objected any negotiation efforts. On the other hand, I support and urge all parties to enter negotiations to find peaceful way to solve the political conflict and to bring about national reconciliation.
2. UDD and their supporters demand democracy and justice. They did not demand anything for me or on my behalf. I am not UDD leader. Any negotiation to end the demonstration or conflict must be made between the government and UDD leaders. I have no authority to negotiate on behalf of the UDD.
3. Government falsely accused the UDD and protesters of being terrorists and that I am the mastermind of the terrorists. I denied that accusation entirely. I never approve nor agree to any use of violence. I believe in peace. I love my country as much as any member of this government. I believe in peaceful and non-violent means to end conflict and reject any use of force. If there is any act of terrorism, it is the duty of this government to find the wrongdoer and prosecute them in the court of law.
I demand the government to stop all defamation and false accusation. The government should be mindful that these protesters are Thai citizens. Please do not harm them. Please order the cease fire and begin the negotiation with the UDD leaders so there will be no more loss of life.
Many Red Shirt guards are shot dead at head. The army’s getting closer to the main stage where leaders still there.
Sad thing is, many Thai, especially those from middle-class are laughing to the death of the Red Shirt as they think these people are terrorist as told by Government.
I remember the scene from Titanic movie, Kate said “Mother looked at him (Jack Dawson) as if he’s insect to be squeezed”. Those Thai middle-class folks are brain-washed by mass media. Many of Thai TV still plays games show, soap opera, etc…
The myth of the 2nd generation ( someone takes Seh Daeng at his word!) and the monster created by rhetoric is just that– a myth.
The talk of the 2nd generation referring to the likes of Arisman and Kwanchai started long before Seh Daeng talked on Friday. Are you saying there was no split in the leadership last Friday? Are you also saying that Seh Daeng was telling lies when he said that Thaksin told him to replace the 1st. generation leadership last Friday if they tried to stop the protest?
Were you there Emjay on either Friday or last night? I think to ask whether the split occurred again last night is a reasonable question.
If Aussie protestors started tossing grenades at people they would be shot immediately with widespread approval. There is no shortage of footage of armed protestors, check it out for yourself.
How do you support this claim that the government ‘refuses to negotiate’? We’ve just had 2 months of negotiations including nationally televised debates between government and UDD leaders.
The government offered to dissolve the house before the end of the year. Having won their key demand, UDD leaders threw it all away trying to ice the cake with amnesty to save their own skins.
Unfortunately we are stuck in a situation where it is difficult to criticise without being labeled as being a representative of the other side.
I agree – excessive use of force is a gross infringement of basic human rights.
But I also question what the Reds’ strategy is. They knew all along that this would be the outcome – particularly with sporadic acts of violence and not negotiating.
My suspicion is that this is the strategy – that they need blood in the same way the state needs ‘terrorists’. And my concern is that the kind of political force that benefits from chaos – whether the militarists or Thaksin – are not the forces for progressive democratic change that most of us would like to see.
It is hard to find any Thai politician with a good democratic record….certainly when in office.
It is easy to talk about ‘civil war’. Let’s wait and see what happens after we have had to live through a civil war. They tend to bring in even more extreme governments – and I fear that Thailand will go the way of Argentina in the 70s.
Written in the same hysterical, defensive tones as the Apartheid government’s own press releases before it dawned on them, too, that they may actually have cocked it all up.
The local Thai media have had their heads buried in the same sandpit for years, so it’s left to the international community to apply some critical thinking to the debate.
A few weeks ago we had The Economist breaking the ice with the infamous ‘titties and cream’ episode, followed by the ABC’s Foreign Correspondent. And now even a snot-rag like the Sydney Morning Herald is catching on. I suspect this won’t be the last highly-strung letter we’ll see from the Thai embassy.
A big stakes game is now taking place. Thaksin, as usual is going for double or quits and playing with human lives that he sees as casino chips piling up to his PR advantage. If he wins, he will come back to entrench a vengeful dictatorial regime that brooks no dissent and become wealthier than ever before. If he loses, he will continue his comfortable billionaire existence in the ritzy shopping malls of other third world countries. It’s a no brainer to him.
My trouble is that I have no faith in the present regime, the military – and certainly not in an alliance of Thaksin, the Red leaders and the likes of Chavalit and Chalerm. It is hard to believe that this gang would be the defenders of democracy.
Let’s also recognise that Thaksin’s support is not just from the poor rural Reds. They provide the numbers for sure. But Thaksin also had the support of a powerful business elite and the police, gained the support of some in the military and bureaucracy – they provide the money and the clout.
Democracy is not just about elections – although of course free and fair elections are fundamental. Democratic rights are indivisible. We need to look at Thaksin’s record – and it is appalling.
He came to power on the back of the 1997 Constitution and then moved against all the independent institutions that the constitution established to be checks and balances on the extremes of the government. He targeted civil society groups and the media.
In case you have forgotten I am copying a short piece from HRW on the drugs war (yes I know this was immensely popular, but it hardly bodes well for democracy)
From HRW Thailand
A violent 10-week-old state-sponsored “war on drugs” is rapidly undermining Thailand’s long struggle to become one of Southeast Asia’s leading democracies – and the civil rights of Thais. The United Nations and the United States should pressure Bangkok to end its shoot-to-kill policy.
Deviating sharply from Thailand’s previous efforts to build the rule of law, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has called for law enforcement to be conducted on the basis of an “eye for an eye.” Interior Minister Wan Muhamad Nor Matha put it bluntly in January. Referring to drug dealers, he said: “They will be put behind bars or even vanish without a trace. Who cares? They are destroying our country.”
Simon #19
I for one am certainly not hoping for a mass uprising, and I consider it only wise to keep as well informed as possible about the possibility of an escalation of disorder outside the Bangkok. To do otherwise would be plain stupid.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Bangkok: This is a massacre
JohnH – 72
Anyone with yellow mind set will said that, no matter where they from, I went to the protest site every day after work never once that I got ask for my ID card. Anyway we should work this logic backward a bit, there were around 2-3000 protesters during noon, the number balloon to 80,000 by 10 and then go down to around 20-30,000 before morning. and then to 2,000 lever again. If what she said is true, then we shouldn’t see this huge fluctuation in protesters throughout the day.
Last question, how much do you think your life worth if you know that one day your life will be at risk of getting shot at?
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
The soldiers are now stop operating in Ratchaprasong area for lunch break.
12.49 Thai time, Matichon reported that 7-8 UDD leaders will surrender, Prachatai reported that some UDD leaders will surrender at 13.00.
……………………………………………
I wonder what Mr. Lertlat offer to the leaders if they are surrender.
I think that he offer the bail.
What do you think.
Bangkok: This is a massacre
Yesterday, an acquaintance of my wife from a small village in Petchabun told her that about half of the people in her village support the red shirts. Some went to Bangkok to protest.
They were paid to do so. Their ID cards were also taken as a guarantee against them leaving. Some in recent days have tried to leave the protest site and been refused the return of their ID cards to do so.
My wife has no reason to believe that this woman works for military Psych. Ops or is part of a network of paid government propagandists. Nor is my wife either, by the way; at least, as far as I know, she isn’t.
The conversation was had randomly, while talking about the current situation in Bangkok.
Any comments?
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
thaiPBS: UDD leaders will surrender to the authorities at 1 pm.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Thank you SmithJones, for posting a press release from the lawyer/PR man of the criminal fugitive that is funding this protest.
This video interview of the same lawyer by Al Jazeera yesterday is worth watching. I leave it to you to judge his credulity as a source:
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ThaiTalk/2010/05/18/entry-1
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
To whomever think that this action is the acceptable for the Thai government to do:
I can understand why you would have this mentality. If you are in Thailand and only able to consume the Thai News (24 hours) and Government announcement (8-10 times a day) repeating things that they want you to know, even has the VDO to support their theory, it’s hard not to believe them.
One sided news
Double Standard
Triple forces: Military, Police,…and the sky power
Government may success in this operation beautifully…
Bangkok: This is a massacre
I would have accepted the offer of an election in November and Suthep’s appearance at the DSI to face charges.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
PBS – Italian reporter dead in hospital after being shot – sorry no further details as yet.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Statement from Thaksin
http://www.robertamsterdam.com/2010/05/statement_of_thaksin_shinawatra.htm
Statement of Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra, May 19, 2010
Today, the government ordered the use of force to disperse the peaceful demonstrators at Rajprasong intersection and accusing me as the one who rejected the negotiation. I would like to make the statement as follows:
1. I have never objected any negotiation efforts. On the other hand, I support and urge all parties to enter negotiations to find peaceful way to solve the political conflict and to bring about national reconciliation.
2. UDD and their supporters demand democracy and justice. They did not demand anything for me or on my behalf. I am not UDD leader. Any negotiation to end the demonstration or conflict must be made between the government and UDD leaders. I have no authority to negotiate on behalf of the UDD.
3. Government falsely accused the UDD and protesters of being terrorists and that I am the mastermind of the terrorists. I denied that accusation entirely. I never approve nor agree to any use of violence. I believe in peace. I love my country as much as any member of this government. I believe in peaceful and non-violent means to end conflict and reject any use of force. If there is any act of terrorism, it is the duty of this government to find the wrongdoer and prosecute them in the court of law.
I demand the government to stop all defamation and false accusation. The government should be mindful that these protesters are Thai citizens. Please do not harm them. Please order the cease fire and begin the negotiation with the UDD leaders so there will be no more loss of life.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Update again at noon:
Many Red Shirt guards are shot dead at head. The army’s getting closer to the main stage where leaders still there.
Sad thing is, many Thai, especially those from middle-class are laughing to the death of the Red Shirt as they think these people are terrorist as told by Government.
I remember the scene from Titanic movie, Kate said “Mother looked at him (Jack Dawson) as if he’s insect to be squeezed”. Those Thai middle-class folks are brain-washed by mass media. Many of Thai TV still plays games show, soap opera, etc…
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Emjay – 23
The myth of the 2nd generation ( someone takes Seh Daeng at his word!) and the monster created by rhetoric is just that– a myth.
The talk of the 2nd generation referring to the likes of Arisman and Kwanchai started long before Seh Daeng talked on Friday. Are you saying there was no split in the leadership last Friday? Are you also saying that Seh Daeng was telling lies when he said that Thaksin told him to replace the 1st. generation leadership last Friday if they tried to stop the protest?
Were you there Emjay on either Friday or last night? I think to ask whether the split occurred again last night is a reasonable question.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Mick
If Aussie protestors started tossing grenades at people they would be shot immediately with widespread approval. There is no shortage of footage of armed protestors, check it out for yourself.
How do you support this claim that the government ‘refuses to negotiate’? We’ve just had 2 months of negotiations including nationally televised debates between government and UDD leaders.
The government offered to dissolve the house before the end of the year. Having won their key demand, UDD leaders threw it all away trying to ice the cake with amnesty to save their own skins.
They’ve snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Update noon, 19 May
Local TV reports one foreign journalist got shot to chest and fear dead. It says, the guy is from Italy, and another one is shot at arm, I think.
AP correspondent is missing.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Mick
Unfortunately we are stuck in a situation where it is difficult to criticise without being labeled as being a representative of the other side.
I agree – excessive use of force is a gross infringement of basic human rights.
But I also question what the Reds’ strategy is. They knew all along that this would be the outcome – particularly with sporadic acts of violence and not negotiating.
My suspicion is that this is the strategy – that they need blood in the same way the state needs ‘terrorists’. And my concern is that the kind of political force that benefits from chaos – whether the militarists or Thaksin – are not the forces for progressive democratic change that most of us would like to see.
It is hard to find any Thai politician with a good democratic record….certainly when in office.
It is easy to talk about ‘civil war’. Let’s wait and see what happens after we have had to live through a civil war. They tend to bring in even more extreme governments – and I fear that Thailand will go the way of Argentina in the 70s.
Thai Embassy response to Hartcher
Written in the same hysterical, defensive tones as the Apartheid government’s own press releases before it dawned on them, too, that they may actually have cocked it all up.
The local Thai media have had their heads buried in the same sandpit for years, so it’s left to the international community to apply some critical thinking to the debate.
A few weeks ago we had The Economist breaking the ice with the infamous ‘titties and cream’ episode, followed by the ABC’s Foreign Correspondent. And now even a snot-rag like the Sydney Morning Herald is catching on. I suspect this won’t be the last highly-strung letter we’ll see from the Thai embassy.
A chance for peace?
Hi,
If you can’t get this site form inside Thailand, or want to post so your IP is not easily known, go to google and search:
anonymous proxy
You will have to decide which works best.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
A big stakes game is now taking place. Thaksin, as usual is going for double or quits and playing with human lives that he sees as casino chips piling up to his PR advantage. If he wins, he will come back to entrench a vengeful dictatorial regime that brooks no dissent and become wealthier than ever before. If he loses, he will continue his comfortable billionaire existence in the ritzy shopping malls of other third world countries. It’s a no brainer to him.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
SmithJones
My trouble is that I have no faith in the present regime, the military – and certainly not in an alliance of Thaksin, the Red leaders and the likes of Chavalit and Chalerm. It is hard to believe that this gang would be the defenders of democracy.
Let’s also recognise that Thaksin’s support is not just from the poor rural Reds. They provide the numbers for sure. But Thaksin also had the support of a powerful business elite and the police, gained the support of some in the military and bureaucracy – they provide the money and the clout.
Democracy is not just about elections – although of course free and fair elections are fundamental. Democratic rights are indivisible. We need to look at Thaksin’s record – and it is appalling.
He came to power on the back of the 1997 Constitution and then moved against all the independent institutions that the constitution established to be checks and balances on the extremes of the government. He targeted civil society groups and the media.
In case you have forgotten I am copying a short piece from HRW on the drugs war (yes I know this was immensely popular, but it hardly bodes well for democracy)
From HRW Thailand
A violent 10-week-old state-sponsored “war on drugs” is rapidly undermining Thailand’s long struggle to become one of Southeast Asia’s leading democracies – and the civil rights of Thais. The United Nations and the United States should pressure Bangkok to end its shoot-to-kill policy.
Deviating sharply from Thailand’s previous efforts to build the rule of law, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has called for law enforcement to be conducted on the basis of an “eye for an eye.” Interior Minister Wan Muhamad Nor Matha put it bluntly in January. Referring to drug dealers, he said: “They will be put behind bars or even vanish without a trace. Who cares? They are destroying our country.”
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Free to air channels – Operation to secure Lumpini and surrounding areas successful – Red leaders have escaped.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Simon #19
I for one am certainly not hoping for a mass uprising, and I consider it only wise to keep as well informed as possible about the possibility of an escalation of disorder outside the Bangkok. To do otherwise would be plain stupid.
I have no idea where you live, but my family and I are located in Khon Kaen. So far KKC remains quiet, but that may not last long. Trouble does seem to be brewing in Ubon Ratchathani:
http://memock.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/sea-of-red-arriving-in-ubon-ratchathani-to-protest-wednesday-10-30am/