Thank you very much for your understanding of our situation and the help by this article. I do hope it can shed the light to most readers. I am Thai whose friends are the victims of the October 1976 massacre.
Glad you are safe Nick.
You are the best reporter in Thailand, you wrote it on your own feel and your point of view.
As my apologize, I did notice some Thai people who commented here. We should talk about Nick feeling and his life on crisis in BKK. It’s not for who is right to did or did not. Also don’t put your view on others and try to drag them to your own side. I believed that mankind can having their own will. A reasons or feels… ?
PS. You should read War and Peace (Leo Tolstoy, 1869)…once a time in your life. I believed it will open you mind. Better than the Three kingdoms myth from Chaina. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_and_Peace
Also There is the translated book in Thailand at National library.
@In Town. The Reds were not looking for snipers at the Chulalonkorn Hospital specifically, they were looking for the provacateurs who fired the grenades at the BTS station.
We’ve seen enough video clips now to know that the Thai military is going beyond anything the UN “Basic principles on use of lethal force and firearms..” would allow. I find it amazing that so many Western observers condone the shooting of protesters who clearly are not presenting an imminent threat to life. Human Rights Watch is one of the few organisations currently highlighting this aspect of unfolding events. More national governments and international organisations need to get off the fence and condemn the Thai security forces’ disproportionate use of force. The fact that a minority of protesters may be armed makes no difference to the general pattern of shooting from distance at groups of people in the “live fire zones”. If the international community remains silent a lot more people are going to die.
So, these protestors block the elites, royalists, Abhisit wife from buying Gucci, Prada & Furcoats in Ratchaprasong. So Abhisit orders the Army to kill them all…..what Fascist nonsense is this? Where is the government of the people, by the people and for the people?
Sure, Abhisit can sleep at night knowing he murdered so many innocent Thais on the street….sleep well in your gold linen pillows while Thai farmers left to rot.
like you, I was there during May ’92 – close to the Royal Hotel, and had a photographer friend in the crowd directly in front of the hotel.
Nobody ever lives through such events and ever forgets them – they stay with us for the rest of our lives, especially memories of the incredible bravery of unarmed civilians standing up to heavily armed troops.
I think your analysis is almost 100% correct and can see why Australia’s government appointed you as a top political analyst.
Handley’s book is a good one, and a valuable corrective to so much of the propagandist, hagiographic gibberish published about Bumiphol.
But Handley is grossly unfair to Bumphol in relation to May ’92 – and has even had to concede that without the King’s intervention, the bloodshed would have been much worse.
And that Thailand would most likely have reverted to military dictatorship, rather than subsequently enjoying 15 years of democracy.
It is silly of Handley to blame Bumiphol for not intervening, or not stopping the crisis earlier.
The king was in no position to do so, despite Handley’s efforts to argue the contrary.
It speaks volumes about HM’s courage that when he had the chance to further democracy, he took it – by appointing Anand PM.
One of the most telling faults on Handley on May ’92, is where he lambasts Bumiphol for chastising Chamlong, who Handley mistakenly labels “the democracy leader”.
If Chamlong has ever been a genuine “democracy leader”, then pigs do fly !! Just look at Chamlong’s role supporting the thoroughly undemocratic government of South Vietnam, his role in the ’76 Thammasat massacre (as an intelligence officer), and his role now spearheading disenfranchisement of at least 50% of Thailand’s population !!
It seems you are too exaggerative. Nobody said all the Reds are hired. I even said mostly they are not.
I do very regret for all wounded or died. Thounsand are injured, but almost of them were people who started the violence, while the rest, which is not just a little amount, are innocent. However, you cannot say the government made it intentionally.
Do you agree to me that no matter how different your opinion are to the others, and no matter you are pressured by the military force around, you still have no right to fire the others’ house and fire the RPG to the building around and once you did that you will be nearly a torrorist.
Depending on which level of the social ladder you are and if you are capable to separate your own self-indulgent well being from your fellow man, the reactions and opinions are typical and some a response of a natural feel for justice and some just the result of severe brainwashing by the Thai media and government .
The Thai look down at the ISAN people as uneducated, urban morons – well who is responsible for their situation and who has the blame that they are uneducated? As we all know a decent education in Thailand is only possible being backed up by wealthy parents. From 20.000 Baht on per month an education is possible which can compete slightly (not really) with an European education, which is for free. But knowledge is power – this is known since the middle ages in the rest of the world. So who withholds these people knowledge?
‘Never seen so much discrimination against own population as it occurs in the “Buddhist country of Thailand”, where Eurasians rule the cast of the soaps on TV (why are Thai women not pretty enough), where whitening cream is one of the most sold products (Thai which are brown are looked down as ugly – but hey you live in the Tropics what do you expect?) and a highly materialistic attitude is ruling, however based on corruption and unfair means. People are exploit to work for a salary one person can barely live on, but they have to feed a complete family. The farmers should feed the rich but get “no thanks”, however receive an arrogant attitude of superior thinking and practice.
Wonder why they rather get shot, then leaving this place? Simple question: what kind of life is this? They obviously do not want to live like this any longer, treated like the dirt on the shoes of the rich, that even think they are sooooo much better. And only cry about their disturbed peace but do not question one second, how it would be walking in the shoes of the ISAN?
It takes more then a few skyscrapers, sky-train and Gucci bags to be a part of a modern democracy that respects people in general. Censorship and brainwash tactics seem to work on a large group of Thais – however there is also a large group wakening up, questioning this government that hides behind a reasonable face and “showed so much patience” in the last weeks. Patience with what?
They make the rules and if you do not follow up on it – they shoot you. To actually grasp that you cannot live in peace, when your neighbor is suffering and doing miserable, right living next to you, is simple human behavior. You have people acting the same way out of greed or power hungry means. However look at the root and the cause of this demonstrations. There was no open ear at all for their concerns nor to improve their miserable conditions to make a better life for themselves and their children.
People in general are the wealth of a country. Repressing them has two effects: isolation of a country and poverty. Killing them will rob the country’s integrity, trustworthiness and status of reliability. The premier was weak? In my opinion taking up arms against the very own population is “REAL WEAKNESS” it shows the man has no clue nor a vision.
Short about Thakisn – he was set out of office through the military and a coup. There was no election and the people were not asked if he should be removed. His name was dragged into the dirt by random accusations – true or not – you will never know. I just see that the people were taken better care off and the wealth not solely distributed anymore into a few channels of the Elite that saw their influence perish. Thailand was never better then during the time of Thaksin – this I say as an outsider – looking in. Thailand never enjoyed more popularity and credibility abroad then to his time being in office. Thailand climbed from a third world country to a promising nation during his time. Since he his banned chaos prevails, created by power hungry elements that do not comprehend the basics of how to run a country and they abuse a population that is stuck in the traditions of a hierarchical system, a great platform to repress large groups of the population. As long as this problem is not fixed at the root – meaning equal rights to all – banning of corruption – getting rid of superior perception of a few, this country will not go forward. It’s karma – right?
InTown #14: what’s your source for this: “The sniper that shot Seh Daeng was actually in the Dusit Hotel”? Is that comment to a NYT article, which has been discredited?
@ Phrai Daeng #35. It looks like an M79 grenade launcher with a shortened barrel and pistol stock like this replica http://infinitytactical.com/infinitytactical/images/JG-CAW-M79-SO-lg.jpg . In fact it is more likely that it is a sawed off standard M79 launcher for ease of concealment. There is a lot more smoke than the Israeli video but there is clearly a lot of wind in that clip that disperses the smoke much quicker. Anyway we don’t know what kind of shells the Thai shooter is using. Different types of load produce different amounts of smoke. The shooter doesn’t care about the accuracy lost as a result of using a shortened versions because he is firing blindly from behind a wall, using it like a mortar. The grenades are going up in the air about 100 metres and then dropping down probably another 100 metres in front of him, if they are not hitting a building before that. He is not particular about whom or what he hits. His main priority is get off his quota of grenades without being spotted and shot himself.
Surayud Chulanont, a currently Privy Councilor & and former PM (gaining power through the 2006 coup), is the one who was the commander in charge of the violent military crackdown at Rattanakosin Hotel during Bloody May.
UPDATE: ‘Black shirts’ on front line in Thai clashes
By Tim Johnston in Bangkok
Published: May 17 2010 12:24 | Last updated: May 17 2010 12:24
In Thailand’s colour-coded tribal war, they are called the “black shirts”, a shadowy and violent force that has been photographed on the fly but has never come out openly.
They are the men with guns, apparently the armed wing of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship, the “red shirt” protest movement which bases much of its legitimacy on its claim to be a peaceful organisation.
EDITOR’S CHOICE
Rebel Thai army officer dies after attack – May-17
Thai street battles escalate with 35 killed – May-16
In pictures: Bangkok street protests – May-17
Bangkok street battles continue – May-16
Thai protesters edge towards insurrection – May-14
Editorial: Thais need talks, not posturing – May-14
The vast majority of the 5,000 or so demonstrators who remain behind the barricades of tyres and sharpened bamboo staves in central Bangkok are still dedicated to the ideal of peaceful and disciplined protest: for five weeks the protesters, mostly drawn from the poorer end of society, have camped out in the country’s richest shopping precinct, but none of the stores have been broken into.
But militancy is rising.
In the protesters’ sprawling encampment around the Ratchaprasong intersection, young men high on a toxic mix of testosterone and methamphetamines swagger around in dark glasses, their favoured wardrobe black shoes, black trousers, and black t-shirts, preferably with the logo of a pistol manufacturer: Glock or Heckler & Koch are particularly popular.
“It is a problem. It is a thing I don’t want to see, like most of the leaders I want to keep our movement peaceful and to go on like this for ever, but the anger of the people has accumulated, and this operation has exposed their feelings,” Karkaew Pikulthong, one of the leaders of the red movement, says of the current government offensive, in which 35 people, only one of them a soldier, have so far died.
The pacifists among the red shirt movement’s collective leadership seem to have lost out to hard liners. Many of the 20 or so men who lead the organisation wanted to accept the government’s offer two weeks ago of elections in November, but they were overruled.
Most of the red shirts participating in the conflict are fighting the soldiers’ assault rifles and shot guns with catapults, home made explosives and petrol bombs, but there is more and more evidence that the red shirts have an armed wing that may or may not be within the control of the leadership.
“They have armed auxiliaries and I think this has been a conscious effort by the UDD strategists,” said Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a political scientist at Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok.
“The red shirts say they have a right to defend themselves and the government says they are terrorists and it precludes a negotiated solution,” said Prof Thitinan. “The violence is going to be protracted.”
Many people believe that Major General Khattya Sawasdipol, a renegade army officer regarded as an extremist even by his political allies, was behind the black shirts. A confidante of Thaksin Shinawatra, the controversial prime minister who was ousted in a military coup four years ago and who remains the godfather of the protest movement, Gen Khattya was the first casualty of the latest round of violence, shot in the head by an unidentified sniper last Thursday evening. He died on Monday.
Mr Thitinan is not surprised that an armed wing should emerge given that Mr Abhisit has failed to address many of the concerns of that motivate the protesters since he came to power in December 2008.
“Suppression without accommodation begets a better-armed movement,” he says.
One of the central fears of analysts like Prof Thitinan is that the violence will spread beyond Bangkok to the countryside where the majority of Mr Thaksin’s supporters are based.
There have already been demonstrations in towns like Chiang Mai, Ubon Ratchathani and Khon Kaen, and the security situation could deteriorate, possibly by design.
“They are looking beyond Ratchaprasong, they are looking at armed resistance to the Abhisit administration,” Mr Thitinan says of the black shirts.
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2010. You may share using our article tools. Please don’t cut articles from FT.com and redistribute by email or post to the web.
The military named zones of zero tolerance… they delineated which areas would be liable to the use of live round ammunition. They warned people not to go there…
… and people went there. And tried to blockade the street. In front of armed soldiers.
And now you are surprised?
The Thai government has shown patience and restraint dealing with this protest.
2 weeks ago, UDD had won already… they had early dissolution.. they had a fixed election date. They could have dispersed with a victory.
But they continued to ‘demand’. That they get immediate bail if arrested. That Suthep report to the police. That Suthep report to THEIR choice of police…
Patience wore out when government realised they would not disperse.
And they overplayed their hand by bargaining for petty privileges. I feel sorry for the Red Shirts… they are walking towards armed soldiers while their leaders are miles behind them…
They believe they are fighting for democracy… but for them, democracy is a byword for money… they are poor and want to be rich. UDD have promised them that by overthrowing the government their lives will be better… but it’s a lie.
Who is paying for this demonstration?
Do you think they don’t expect to get their money back?
It’s all about one group of rich Thai guys trying to wrestle money and power away from another group of rich Thai guys…
““I stand with my countrymen in this terrible hour in our history. The pictures that I have seen go beyond any nightmares that could have been envisaged. I have no choice but to state resolutely the need for all sides to step back from this terrible abyss and seek to begin a new, genuine and sincere dialogue between the parties.
“The present action of the government dishonours our history and will forever weaken our institutions and democracy.
How can life be revered when the government uses live bullets against innocent non-violent protesters and civilians, many of them women and children.
“I call for the United Nations to immediately engage to act as facilitator for this negotiation. That organisation should not allow itself to be silenced by a prime minister who failed to understand that a right to life is a core universal value that unites us all as one.”
As for the oil tanker reported by the Nation, I am not surprised if this newspaper tried hard again to distort the story and blame the reds. Everyone knows the Nation’s editorial standard.
This may be a repeat of last April (2009) incident in Din Daeng in an attempt to frame the reds again.
@ Srithonchai. You are wrong. Thaksin’s all time record and gold medal are absolutely safe with the 2,000 plus murders from his “war against drugs” alone, without the need even to tap into the Tak Bai massacre.
I have been thinking we are becoming more like Burma each day with the government killing the people.
Then I suddenly realised the difference NO MONKS on the street.
While we should not expect a helpful Royal intervention – the Queens Guard led the killings on 10th April – why aren’t the monks walking into the “live fire zones” to protect the very people who give them alms?
@ David Brown. Your analysis of the troubles in the South is unfortunately incomplete. The most recent round of troubles there erupted after Thaksin transferred much of the responsibility for security from the army to the police. The reasons for this were mainly that he wanted to control the patronage networks and thought he could do this as well as have tighter control over security through the police. As we all know, whoever controls security in the troubled South can also control a multitude of illegal businesses including smuggling of oil and other things from Malaysia. Thaksin sent a lot of brutal police thugs to the South with orders to get quick results and they embarked on a campaign of murder, abductions and other attrocities to please the Boss. Within six months of Thaksin’s new policy the South was in flames. Notable Thaksin achievements in the South include the Tak Bai massacre, the Krue Seh Mosque massacre and the abduction and disappearance of the Muslim human rights Somjai Neelaphalijit.
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Bangkok: This is a massacre
Thank you very much for your understanding of our situation and the help by this article. I do hope it can shed the light to most readers. I am Thai whose friends are the victims of the October 1976 massacre.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Glad you are safe Nick.
You are the best reporter in Thailand, you wrote it on your own feel and your point of view.
As my apologize, I did notice some Thai people who commented here. We should talk about Nick feeling and his life on crisis in BKK. It’s not for who is right to did or did not. Also don’t put your view on others and try to drag them to your own side. I believed that mankind can having their own will. A reasons or feels… ?
PS. You should read War and Peace (Leo Tolstoy, 1869)…once a time in your life. I believed it will open you mind. Better than the Three kingdoms myth from Chaina.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_and_Peace
Also There is the translated book in Thailand at National library.
Day 5 – how much longer?
@In Town. The Reds were not looking for snipers at the Chulalonkorn Hospital specifically, they were looking for the provacateurs who fired the grenades at the BTS station.
The army had set up shop there.
Bangkok: This is a massacre
We’ve seen enough video clips now to know that the Thai military is going beyond anything the UN “Basic principles on use of lethal force and firearms..” would allow. I find it amazing that so many Western observers condone the shooting of protesters who clearly are not presenting an imminent threat to life. Human Rights Watch is one of the few organisations currently highlighting this aspect of unfolding events. More national governments and international organisations need to get off the fence and condemn the Thai security forces’ disproportionate use of force. The fact that a minority of protesters may be armed makes no difference to the general pattern of shooting from distance at groups of people in the “live fire zones”. If the international community remains silent a lot more people are going to die.
Bangkok: This is a massacre
So, these protestors block the elites, royalists, Abhisit wife from buying Gucci, Prada & Furcoats in Ratchaprasong. So Abhisit orders the Army to kill them all…..what Fascist nonsense is this? Where is the government of the people, by the people and for the people?
Sure, Abhisit can sleep at night knowing he murdered so many innocent Thais on the street….sleep well in your gold linen pillows while Thai farmers left to rot.
17 May 1992 and 17 May 2010
Alistair @ 17 :
like you, I was there during May ’92 – close to the Royal Hotel, and had a photographer friend in the crowd directly in front of the hotel.
Nobody ever lives through such events and ever forgets them – they stay with us for the rest of our lives, especially memories of the incredible bravery of unarmed civilians standing up to heavily armed troops.
I think your analysis is almost 100% correct and can see why Australia’s government appointed you as a top political analyst.
Handley’s book is a good one, and a valuable corrective to so much of the propagandist, hagiographic gibberish published about Bumiphol.
But Handley is grossly unfair to Bumphol in relation to May ’92 – and has even had to concede that without the King’s intervention, the bloodshed would have been much worse.
And that Thailand would most likely have reverted to military dictatorship, rather than subsequently enjoying 15 years of democracy.
It is silly of Handley to blame Bumiphol for not intervening, or not stopping the crisis earlier.
The king was in no position to do so, despite Handley’s efforts to argue the contrary.
It speaks volumes about HM’s courage that when he had the chance to further democracy, he took it – by appointing Anand PM.
One of the most telling faults on Handley on May ’92, is where he lambasts Bumiphol for chastising Chamlong, who Handley mistakenly labels “the democracy leader”.
If Chamlong has ever been a genuine “democracy leader”, then pigs do fly !! Just look at Chamlong’s role supporting the thoroughly undemocratic government of South Vietnam, his role in the ’76 Thammasat massacre (as an intelligence officer), and his role now spearheading disenfranchisement of at least 50% of Thailand’s population !!
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Try reading the following for a little piece of information.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/fdbc3ae8-61a3-11df-aa80-00144feab49a.html
Just want to share.
=============================================
Dear Kevina,
It seems you are too exaggerative. Nobody said all the Reds are hired. I even said mostly they are not.
I do very regret for all wounded or died. Thounsand are injured, but almost of them were people who started the violence, while the rest, which is not just a little amount, are innocent. However, you cannot say the government made it intentionally.
Do you agree to me that no matter how different your opinion are to the others, and no matter you are pressured by the military force around, you still have no right to fire the others’ house and fire the RPG to the building around and once you did that you will be nearly a torrorist.
Thanks TonyD for the good brief.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Depending on which level of the social ladder you are and if you are capable to separate your own self-indulgent well being from your fellow man, the reactions and opinions are typical and some a response of a natural feel for justice and some just the result of severe brainwashing by the Thai media and government .
The Thai look down at the ISAN people as uneducated, urban morons – well who is responsible for their situation and who has the blame that they are uneducated? As we all know a decent education in Thailand is only possible being backed up by wealthy parents. From 20.000 Baht on per month an education is possible which can compete slightly (not really) with an European education, which is for free. But knowledge is power – this is known since the middle ages in the rest of the world. So who withholds these people knowledge?
‘Never seen so much discrimination against own population as it occurs in the “Buddhist country of Thailand”, where Eurasians rule the cast of the soaps on TV (why are Thai women not pretty enough), where whitening cream is one of the most sold products (Thai which are brown are looked down as ugly – but hey you live in the Tropics what do you expect?) and a highly materialistic attitude is ruling, however based on corruption and unfair means. People are exploit to work for a salary one person can barely live on, but they have to feed a complete family. The farmers should feed the rich but get “no thanks”, however receive an arrogant attitude of superior thinking and practice.
Wonder why they rather get shot, then leaving this place? Simple question: what kind of life is this? They obviously do not want to live like this any longer, treated like the dirt on the shoes of the rich, that even think they are sooooo much better. And only cry about their disturbed peace but do not question one second, how it would be walking in the shoes of the ISAN?
It takes more then a few skyscrapers, sky-train and Gucci bags to be a part of a modern democracy that respects people in general. Censorship and brainwash tactics seem to work on a large group of Thais – however there is also a large group wakening up, questioning this government that hides behind a reasonable face and “showed so much patience” in the last weeks. Patience with what?
They make the rules and if you do not follow up on it – they shoot you. To actually grasp that you cannot live in peace, when your neighbor is suffering and doing miserable, right living next to you, is simple human behavior. You have people acting the same way out of greed or power hungry means. However look at the root and the cause of this demonstrations. There was no open ear at all for their concerns nor to improve their miserable conditions to make a better life for themselves and their children.
People in general are the wealth of a country. Repressing them has two effects: isolation of a country and poverty. Killing them will rob the country’s integrity, trustworthiness and status of reliability. The premier was weak? In my opinion taking up arms against the very own population is “REAL WEAKNESS” it shows the man has no clue nor a vision.
Short about Thakisn – he was set out of office through the military and a coup. There was no election and the people were not asked if he should be removed. His name was dragged into the dirt by random accusations – true or not – you will never know. I just see that the people were taken better care off and the wealth not solely distributed anymore into a few channels of the Elite that saw their influence perish. Thailand was never better then during the time of Thaksin – this I say as an outsider – looking in. Thailand never enjoyed more popularity and credibility abroad then to his time being in office. Thailand climbed from a third world country to a promising nation during his time. Since he his banned chaos prevails, created by power hungry elements that do not comprehend the basics of how to run a country and they abuse a population that is stuck in the traditions of a hierarchical system, a great platform to repress large groups of the population. As long as this problem is not fixed at the root – meaning equal rights to all – banning of corruption – getting rid of superior perception of a few, this country will not go forward. It’s karma – right?
Day 5 – how much longer?
InTown #14: what’s your source for this: “The sniper that shot Seh Daeng was actually in the Dusit Hotel”? Is that comment to a NYT article, which has been discredited?
Abhisit’s iron fist – Sunday
@ Phrai Daeng #35. It looks like an M79 grenade launcher with a shortened barrel and pistol stock like this replica http://infinitytactical.com/infinitytactical/images/JG-CAW-M79-SO-lg.jpg . In fact it is more likely that it is a sawed off standard M79 launcher for ease of concealment. There is a lot more smoke than the Israeli video but there is clearly a lot of wind in that clip that disperses the smoke much quicker. Anyway we don’t know what kind of shells the Thai shooter is using. Different types of load produce different amounts of smoke. The shooter doesn’t care about the accuracy lost as a result of using a shortened versions because he is firing blindly from behind a wall, using it like a mortar. The grenades are going up in the air about 100 metres and then dropping down probably another 100 metres in front of him, if they are not hitting a building before that. He is not particular about whom or what he hits. His main priority is get off his quota of grenades without being spotted and shot himself.
Day 5 – how much longer?
Red Shirts use baby as human shield! Bangkok Rama 4 Khlong Toei .
http://www.twitvid.com/PIG8F
17 May 1992 and 17 May 2010
Just in case someone didn’t know:
Surayud Chulanont, a currently Privy Councilor & and former PM (gaining power through the 2006 coup), is the one who was the commander in charge of the violent military crackdown at Rattanakosin Hotel during Bloody May.
Day 5 – how much longer?
UPDATE: ‘Black shirts’ on front line in Thai clashes
By Tim Johnston in Bangkok
Published: May 17 2010 12:24 | Last updated: May 17 2010 12:24
In Thailand’s colour-coded tribal war, they are called the “black shirts”, a shadowy and violent force that has been photographed on the fly but has never come out openly.
They are the men with guns, apparently the armed wing of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship, the “red shirt” protest movement which bases much of its legitimacy on its claim to be a peaceful organisation.
EDITOR’S CHOICE
Rebel Thai army officer dies after attack – May-17
Thai street battles escalate with 35 killed – May-16
In pictures: Bangkok street protests – May-17
Bangkok street battles continue – May-16
Thai protesters edge towards insurrection – May-14
Editorial: Thais need talks, not posturing – May-14
The vast majority of the 5,000 or so demonstrators who remain behind the barricades of tyres and sharpened bamboo staves in central Bangkok are still dedicated to the ideal of peaceful and disciplined protest: for five weeks the protesters, mostly drawn from the poorer end of society, have camped out in the country’s richest shopping precinct, but none of the stores have been broken into.
But militancy is rising.
In the protesters’ sprawling encampment around the Ratchaprasong intersection, young men high on a toxic mix of testosterone and methamphetamines swagger around in dark glasses, their favoured wardrobe black shoes, black trousers, and black t-shirts, preferably with the logo of a pistol manufacturer: Glock or Heckler & Koch are particularly popular.
“It is a problem. It is a thing I don’t want to see, like most of the leaders I want to keep our movement peaceful and to go on like this for ever, but the anger of the people has accumulated, and this operation has exposed their feelings,” Karkaew Pikulthong, one of the leaders of the red movement, says of the current government offensive, in which 35 people, only one of them a soldier, have so far died.
The pacifists among the red shirt movement’s collective leadership seem to have lost out to hard liners. Many of the 20 or so men who lead the organisation wanted to accept the government’s offer two weeks ago of elections in November, but they were overruled.
Most of the red shirts participating in the conflict are fighting the soldiers’ assault rifles and shot guns with catapults, home made explosives and petrol bombs, but there is more and more evidence that the red shirts have an armed wing that may or may not be within the control of the leadership.
“They have armed auxiliaries and I think this has been a conscious effort by the UDD strategists,” said Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a political scientist at Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok.
“The red shirts say they have a right to defend themselves and the government says they are terrorists and it precludes a negotiated solution,” said Prof Thitinan. “The violence is going to be protracted.”
Many people believe that Major General Khattya Sawasdipol, a renegade army officer regarded as an extremist even by his political allies, was behind the black shirts. A confidante of Thaksin Shinawatra, the controversial prime minister who was ousted in a military coup four years ago and who remains the godfather of the protest movement, Gen Khattya was the first casualty of the latest round of violence, shot in the head by an unidentified sniper last Thursday evening. He died on Monday.
Mr Thitinan is not surprised that an armed wing should emerge given that Mr Abhisit has failed to address many of the concerns of that motivate the protesters since he came to power in December 2008.
“Suppression without accommodation begets a better-armed movement,” he says.
One of the central fears of analysts like Prof Thitinan is that the violence will spread beyond Bangkok to the countryside where the majority of Mr Thaksin’s supporters are based.
There have already been demonstrations in towns like Chiang Mai, Ubon Ratchathani and Khon Kaen, and the security situation could deteriorate, possibly by design.
“They are looking beyond Ratchaprasong, they are looking at armed resistance to the Abhisit administration,” Mr Thitinan says of the black shirts.
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2010. You may share using our article tools. Please don’t cut articles from FT.com and redistribute by email or post to the web.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Let me see if this is correct…
The military named zones of zero tolerance… they delineated which areas would be liable to the use of live round ammunition. They warned people not to go there…
… and people went there. And tried to blockade the street. In front of armed soldiers.
And now you are surprised?
The Thai government has shown patience and restraint dealing with this protest.
2 weeks ago, UDD had won already… they had early dissolution.. they had a fixed election date. They could have dispersed with a victory.
But they continued to ‘demand’. That they get immediate bail if arrested. That Suthep report to the police. That Suthep report to THEIR choice of police…
Patience wore out when government realised they would not disperse.
And they overplayed their hand by bargaining for petty privileges. I feel sorry for the Red Shirts… they are walking towards armed soldiers while their leaders are miles behind them…
They believe they are fighting for democracy… but for them, democracy is a byword for money… they are poor and want to be rich. UDD have promised them that by overthrowing the government their lives will be better… but it’s a lie.
Who is paying for this demonstration?
Do you think they don’t expect to get their money back?
It’s all about one group of rich Thai guys trying to wrestle money and power away from another group of rich Thai guys…
Neither group will help the poor.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Post TVbras Lux #117
Riots are not tolerated so long in any occidental country -> see G8, OMC and so.
check out:
how western governments handle protests
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/1b6c4l
Day 5 – how much longer?
Thaksin has released a statement.
““I stand with my countrymen in this terrible hour in our history. The pictures that I have seen go beyond any nightmares that could have been envisaged. I have no choice but to state resolutely the need for all sides to step back from this terrible abyss and seek to begin a new, genuine and sincere dialogue between the parties.
“The present action of the government dishonours our history and will forever weaken our institutions and democracy.
How can life be revered when the government uses live bullets against innocent non-violent protesters and civilians, many of them women and children.
“I call for the United Nations to immediately engage to act as facilitator for this negotiation. That organisation should not allow itself to be silenced by a prime minister who failed to understand that a right to life is a core universal value that unites us all as one.”
Day 5 – how much longer?
Updater # 6, Athita # 8
As for the oil tanker reported by the Nation, I am not surprised if this newspaper tried hard again to distort the story and blame the reds. Everyone knows the Nation’s editorial standard.
This may be a repeat of last April (2009) incident in Din Daeng in an attempt to frame the reds again.
Abhisit’s iron fist – Sunday
@ Srithonchai. You are wrong. Thaksin’s all time record and gold medal are absolutely safe with the 2,000 plus murders from his “war against drugs” alone, without the need even to tap into the Tak Bai massacre.
Day 5 – how much longer?
I have been thinking we are becoming more like Burma each day with the government killing the people.
Then I suddenly realised the difference NO MONKS on the street.
While we should not expect a helpful Royal intervention – the Queens Guard led the killings on 10th April – why aren’t the monks walking into the “live fire zones” to protect the very people who give them alms?
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
@ David Brown. Your analysis of the troubles in the South is unfortunately incomplete. The most recent round of troubles there erupted after Thaksin transferred much of the responsibility for security from the army to the police. The reasons for this were mainly that he wanted to control the patronage networks and thought he could do this as well as have tighter control over security through the police. As we all know, whoever controls security in the troubled South can also control a multitude of illegal businesses including smuggling of oil and other things from Malaysia. Thaksin sent a lot of brutal police thugs to the South with orders to get quick results and they embarked on a campaign of murder, abductions and other attrocities to please the Boss. Within six months of Thaksin’s new policy the South was in flames. Notable Thaksin achievements in the South include the Tak Bai massacre, the Krue Seh Mosque massacre and the abduction and disappearance of the Muslim human rights Somjai Neelaphalijit.