What we are seeing now on the streets of Bangkok are the lumpen proletariat at work-smashing ATMs,setting fires and other mindless acts.Mor Weng has called for them to stop.They are out of control.At the root of all society is force.The government has no option but to end this situation.The Red Shirt leadership must enter quickly into negotiations or capitulate.They have laid the foundation for a new social movement;have given a voice to disaffected people;and raised the political consciousness of thousands of people.They should not let these achievements be lost in a useless bloodbath.
Sorry, one more. Regarding your comment about the unlawful actions of the protesters, I agree with you. Entering the hospital to search for snipers was wrong. The sniper that shot Seh Daeng was actually in the Dusit Hotel across Rama IV, not in the hospital.
But as you say, there have been unlawful incidents, behaviour that would be deemed unacceptable in any society, and it is quite right that the government should do something about unlawful protesters. But surely you are not saying that that “something” should be to shoot them in the head?
Bobby, in response to your comment (#7). The current government did not come to power through a “normal democratic process”. The party currently in power boycotted an election they knew they would lose as a first step in their rejection of democracy. Next the elected government was overthown in a military coup, then the junta re-wrote the constitution and used the new law retroactively to dissolve the country’s most popular party and ban senior politicians who had not even been accused (let alone convicted) of any crime.
With their new law and institutions in place, the junta braved elections but when the result again went against them they used their legal code and control of the judiciary to eject a sitting prime minister for appearing to profit from a cooking show, then again dissolved the countries most popular party; and after thus laying waste to the opposition (all politicians elected through a normal democratic process) they were finally able to cobble together a coalition that included Newin’s party, who, although banned fro previous activities, was somehow allowed to continue as leader of his party as long as he switched sides.
I would hardly call that a normal democratic process.
This history may explain, in part, the reds doubting the sincerity of Abhisit’s quickly withdrawn offer of elections in November.
Our PM agreed to a new election in November, it is not that long from now on. His term is supposed to finish in 2012. The reason is very easy to understand, because you need time to prepare for the transfer, if there shall be a new government taking place.
The Red Shirts were not flexible… and they continue to cause problems (including the fact that they are about to blow up this Oil tank in front of my house now) and without reasons. When a question such as So what’s going to happen after there’s a new government in power? …Nobody could answer. Everyone wants power, no body knows what to do with it.
In the non-Olympic Thai discipline of prime ministers being responsible for the killing of protesters, Abhisit Vejjajiva has now moved into second place, ahead of Suchinda Kraprayoon. The silver medal is secure. But will he manage to fetch Thanom Kittikachorn on the final straight, and get the gold medel? Stay tuned–the finishing line is close!
My opinion could be found radical but I insist that no royal intervention is needed here!
The red shirts should fight for themselves and claim the victory solely to themselves. The victory should comes from the red shirts’ own effort as their blood is spread over the Thai soil.
Leave not even a tiny opportunity for the sky to claim for its contribution!
No matter how long it will take, fight until the true revolution happens.
– No one leaving the camp at Rajprasong except those old, women, kids
– There’s some shooting at Bon Kai, where Pratheep (a famous female activist) is leading up a thousand protester there. Explosion heards,
And now there’s a gasoline truck blocking Rama 4 road, source said it’s full of gasoline, but not sure who the driver is, (like last year incident that the Red claimed it was a soldier hired by Newin who got the truck out)
I thank you NM for open the threads so people can be updated. I try not to put so much of my comments on each of my post as I want everyone to judge by themselves. The information I post may not be 100% accurate but hope it would keep all of us informed.
Sae-Daeng’s death, I admit it broke my heart. I didn’t like him that much but late found he was a sincere guy, straightforward, that made him killed. Also heard the Private who shot Sae-Dang was assassinated.
At first I accepted the enthusiasm of the reds; saw the essential non-violence – 300m fom my apt.
But the fortifications (not to mention the elaborate logistics) told me quickly that legitimate aspirations were being hijacked by the big money that could afford an almost 3-month camping trip for 50k people.
with the addition of the ‘tough guys’ swaggering aroung in black,
this completed the picture for me.
it’s hard to imagine a lotta folks
abandoning che guevara theatre to
return home and run a campaign.
I can well imagine the yellows campaign posters – a press photo of UDD violence -with slogan ‘vote UDD’ for a prosperous/stable Thailand.’
Well I guess you will have to check those names yourself Stan G. Perhaps you can do a little research and tell readers of New Mandala? Or are you, like me, considering how close you can go to telling the truth before you become a target for arrest and imprisonment? Perhaps at the same time you should also research the following questions. How many people have been charged with lesse majeste last year? (Clue Its more than 100 and less than… ) Is any comment on a privy counsellor considered to be lesse majeste? (Clue – Google Lesse majeste and privy counsellor) But if you are asking me then I will simply say that the careers of the Privy Counsellors make for some interesting reading as they are men who have had an important role to play in Thailand’s modern history. These men are heavyweights in Thai society and even in their dotage retain an enormous amount of influence and power in the institutions of the state. Thaksin, for all his money and winning of elections, is a lightweight by their standards.
This is not to deny the Thaksin doesn’t have his own career as a creepy authoritarian who buys a lot of his influence and popularity. But the idea that the people opposing him have some kind of moral high ground to stand on is as ludicrous as calling the demonstrators in downtown Bangkok terrorists. Thaksin sanctioned state terror campaigns in Thailand of course. You could argue that Thaksin is terrorist supporter and sympathizer on this basis. But state sanctioned terror campaigns and massacre have been the prerogative of the Thai state for a long time. And political power in Thailand is not familiar with the idea that respect for fundamental human rights is an important limitation on government policy choices. A lifetime dedicated to public service in Thailand means something quite different to what if means in Australia.
Peaceful protest? The answer is not. These people have no right to force their agenda on the rest of the country. The country does not belong to the Reds or the Yellows. They only want their own way, regardless of what other Thais think.
As far as the people not voting for Abhisit:
– The PEOPLE vote for an MP to represent them in the government.
– The party with the majority of elected MPs forms government. If they don’t have a majority, they form a coalition with smaller parties until they have a majority.
– The MPs from the party or coalition of parties that form government select one of the their MPs to be PM. (In most cases the leader of the major party becomes PM.)
That is a perfectly normal democratic process of forming a legitimate government.
By the way, the government offered an early election on Nov. 14 but the UDD decided to backtrack and because of this the government did the same. I don’t know what planet this author is living on. There were quite a few incidents where the protesters behaved unlawfully such as when they raided the hospital. I don’t think this kind of behaviour is deemed acceptable in any society. It is quite right that the government should do something about unlawful protesters.
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Student leaders summoned
[…] Saturday I was alerted to a tweet by a former colleague of mine and at the same time to an article by New Mandala, saying […]
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Im in Bangkok since the beginning of troubles.
Riots are not tolerated so long in any occidental country -> see G8, OMC and so.
Government is upset after two months of impossible negociations, and did announce he will close the zone and army will shoot if people dont go.
Staying here is just suicide. Nick Nostitz seems to like to play with his life for money.
Anyway it concerns only a few streets and a few thousands of people in a city of 15’000’000 …
Why medias are spreading so much fear ?
You dont notice anything ever happened everywhere else in Bangkok,
and you are still safer here than in any big american city.
Shut off your TV, open your eyes !
Day 5 – how much longer?
Please quote your source, Jim! (4)
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Natasha- the needed time was just an excuse, look at how they did it in UK.
Day 5 – how much longer?
What we are seeing now on the streets of Bangkok are the lumpen proletariat at work-smashing ATMs,setting fires and other mindless acts.Mor Weng has called for them to stop.They are out of control.At the root of all society is force.The government has no option but to end this situation.The Red Shirt leadership must enter quickly into negotiations or capitulate.They have laid the foundation for a new social movement;have given a voice to disaffected people;and raised the political consciousness of thousands of people.They should not let these achievements be lost in a useless bloodbath.
Day 5 – how much longer?
Sorry, one more. Regarding your comment about the unlawful actions of the protesters, I agree with you. Entering the hospital to search for snipers was wrong. The sniper that shot Seh Daeng was actually in the Dusit Hotel across Rama IV, not in the hospital.
But as you say, there have been unlawful incidents, behaviour that would be deemed unacceptable in any society, and it is quite right that the government should do something about unlawful protesters. But surely you are not saying that that “something” should be to shoot them in the head?
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
For some odd reasons…. my previous post about what has been going on with our political situation…has been deleted…. Interesting.
It was very unoffensive you know… I will post it again, I know that every logical person can understand if they get to read… 🙂
[Natasha – it wasn’t an original comment. It has been widely posted in numerous places. AW]
Day 5 – how much longer?
Lots of gunfire I have been hearing from my Sukhumvit Condo.
Sounds like it’s coming from the Lumpini area.
Day 5 – how much longer?
Athita (8)
Also heard the Private who shot Sae-Dang was assassinated”
Can you say where you got that report? Likely to be credible?
“Loss of faith in democracy lets hardliners stick in the boot”
[…] […]
Day 5 – how much longer?
Bobby (7)
I doubt you’ll find anyone here disagreeing with you that “It is quite right that the government should do something about unlawful protesters”
I also doubt you’ll find many here who think it’s appropriate that that “something” is to shoot them.
Day 5 – how much longer?
Bobby, in response to your comment (#7). The current government did not come to power through a “normal democratic process”. The party currently in power boycotted an election they knew they would lose as a first step in their rejection of democracy. Next the elected government was overthown in a military coup, then the junta re-wrote the constitution and used the new law retroactively to dissolve the country’s most popular party and ban senior politicians who had not even been accused (let alone convicted) of any crime.
With their new law and institutions in place, the junta braved elections but when the result again went against them they used their legal code and control of the judiciary to eject a sitting prime minister for appearing to profit from a cooking show, then again dissolved the countries most popular party; and after thus laying waste to the opposition (all politicians elected through a normal democratic process) they were finally able to cobble together a coalition that included Newin’s party, who, although banned fro previous activities, was somehow allowed to continue as leader of his party as long as he switched sides.
I would hardly call that a normal democratic process.
This history may explain, in part, the reds doubting the sincerity of Abhisit’s quickly withdrawn offer of elections in November.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Hi Kevina,
Our PM agreed to a new election in November, it is not that long from now on. His term is supposed to finish in 2012. The reason is very easy to understand, because you need time to prepare for the transfer, if there shall be a new government taking place.
The Red Shirts were not flexible… and they continue to cause problems (including the fact that they are about to blow up this Oil tank in front of my house now) and without reasons. When a question such as So what’s going to happen after there’s a new government in power? …Nobody could answer. Everyone wants power, no body knows what to do with it.
Abhisit’s iron fist – Sunday
In the non-Olympic Thai discipline of prime ministers being responsible for the killing of protesters, Abhisit Vejjajiva has now moved into second place, ahead of Suchinda Kraprayoon. The silver medal is secure. But will he manage to fetch Thanom Kittikachorn on the final straight, and get the gold medel? Stay tuned–the finishing line is close!
17 May 1992 and 17 May 2010
My opinion could be found radical but I insist that no royal intervention is needed here!
The red shirts should fight for themselves and claim the victory solely to themselves. The victory should comes from the red shirts’ own effort as their blood is spread over the Thai soil.
Leave not even a tiny opportunity for the sky to claim for its contribution!
No matter how long it will take, fight until the true revolution happens.
Day 5 – how much longer?
@Jim Taylor
Since rally began on March 12, 65 have been killed and 1,669 injured: Public Health Ministry
Day 5 – how much longer?
Update at 6:46 p.m. local time,
– No one leaving the camp at Rajprasong except those old, women, kids
– There’s some shooting at Bon Kai, where Pratheep (a famous female activist) is leading up a thousand protester there. Explosion heards,
And now there’s a gasoline truck blocking Rama 4 road, source said it’s full of gasoline, but not sure who the driver is, (like last year incident that the Red claimed it was a soldier hired by Newin who got the truck out)
I thank you NM for open the threads so people can be updated. I try not to put so much of my comments on each of my post as I want everyone to judge by themselves. The information I post may not be 100% accurate but hope it would keep all of us informed.
Sae-Daeng’s death, I admit it broke my heart. I didn’t like him that much but late found he was a sincere guy, straightforward, that made him killed. Also heard the Private who shot Sae-Dang was assassinated.
Bangkok: This is a massacre
At first I accepted the enthusiasm of the reds; saw the essential non-violence – 300m fom my apt.
But the fortifications (not to mention the elaborate logistics) told me quickly that legitimate aspirations were being hijacked by the big money that could afford an almost 3-month camping trip for 50k people.
with the addition of the ‘tough guys’ swaggering aroung in black,
this completed the picture for me.
it’s hard to imagine a lotta folks
abandoning che guevara theatre to
return home and run a campaign.
I can well imagine the yellows campaign posters – a press photo of UDD violence -with slogan ‘vote UDD’ for a prosperous/stable Thailand.’
17 May 1992 and 17 May 2010
Well I guess you will have to check those names yourself Stan G. Perhaps you can do a little research and tell readers of New Mandala? Or are you, like me, considering how close you can go to telling the truth before you become a target for arrest and imprisonment? Perhaps at the same time you should also research the following questions. How many people have been charged with lesse majeste last year? (Clue Its more than 100 and less than… ) Is any comment on a privy counsellor considered to be lesse majeste? (Clue – Google Lesse majeste and privy counsellor) But if you are asking me then I will simply say that the careers of the Privy Counsellors make for some interesting reading as they are men who have had an important role to play in Thailand’s modern history. These men are heavyweights in Thai society and even in their dotage retain an enormous amount of influence and power in the institutions of the state. Thaksin, for all his money and winning of elections, is a lightweight by their standards.
This is not to deny the Thaksin doesn’t have his own career as a creepy authoritarian who buys a lot of his influence and popularity. But the idea that the people opposing him have some kind of moral high ground to stand on is as ludicrous as calling the demonstrators in downtown Bangkok terrorists. Thaksin sanctioned state terror campaigns in Thailand of course. You could argue that Thaksin is terrorist supporter and sympathizer on this basis. But state sanctioned terror campaigns and massacre have been the prerogative of the Thai state for a long time. And political power in Thailand is not familiar with the idea that respect for fundamental human rights is an important limitation on government policy choices. A lifetime dedicated to public service in Thailand means something quite different to what if means in Australia.
Day 5 – how much longer?
Peaceful protest? The answer is not. These people have no right to force their agenda on the rest of the country. The country does not belong to the Reds or the Yellows. They only want their own way, regardless of what other Thais think.
As far as the people not voting for Abhisit:
– The PEOPLE vote for an MP to represent them in the government.
– The party with the majority of elected MPs forms government. If they don’t have a majority, they form a coalition with smaller parties until they have a majority.
– The MPs from the party or coalition of parties that form government select one of the their MPs to be PM. (In most cases the leader of the major party becomes PM.)
That is a perfectly normal democratic process of forming a legitimate government.
By the way, the government offered an early election on Nov. 14 but the UDD decided to backtrack and because of this the government did the same. I don’t know what planet this author is living on. There were quite a few incidents where the protesters behaved unlawfully such as when they raided the hospital. I don’t think this kind of behaviour is deemed acceptable in any society. It is quite right that the government should do something about unlawful protesters.