Les, maybe because if NM was ‘open to all’, things would be much less sensible and considered. I could just spam the site with an anti-monarchy agenda and get it blocked in Thailand. It works both ways. There’s a fine line to tread.. why do you fail to see this?
I think the ‘posting under your real name’ business sort of implies that Andrew and Nich have taken a considerable and courageous risk with their own identities and careers running this site, and you have not by posting on it anonymously. I’m sure Andrew and Nich have protected peoples identities who have something controversial to say. When was the last time you wrote something controversial?
As happened in 92 the motorbike boys will take casualties. Running on testosterone like young men everywhere they will take more chances than their older sponsors and leaders. The young conscripts will running on the same testosterone and getting more dangerous.
When it’s all over the blood will be on many hands and not just the government, the army, Thaksin and the red shirt leaders. It will also be on the academics, both local and expats, who gave the red shirt movement respectability it didn’t earn and tried to convince the world that this was a class struggle not the ambitions of the richest Thai man trying to buy a revolution.
So guys after this is all over, just sometimes look at your hands and see if you can see the blood. Unfortunately I suspect you will not see it and you will sleep well.
On his Twitter page Alastair Leithead (BBC BKK correspondent) asks –
“Saturday challenge. Can anyone, in one Tweet, explain who the red shirts are and what they want in a fair, balanced and accurate way? “.
Alastair, I don’t have a Twitter account. My reply is ” these are a big part of Thailand and they want RESPECT from the establishment”
Not a threat. We go to considerable lengths to protect contributor’s confidentiality.
Then why bring up that I am posting under alias and you know my real name? There are people on both sides of this dispute that would see their real names being known as being quite dangerous if the future didn’t proceed in way they would like.
StanG, you made your point. We have both – who propose and oppose the crackdown. We understand where you come from. But frankly does this forum be consumed by these discussions? These were meant to be posted last week.
By the way Nation reports that Din Daeng expressway exit is blocked by red shirt taxis. Does it mean that clashes are also occuring outside the main area?
Les, is there a site where Thailand’s chip-on-the-shoulder expats get more coverage in discussion…
So to disagree with the expat academic consensus is to have a chip-on-the-shoulder is it? Or maybe it’s to have been around long enough to actually have a memory of what people like Chavalit and Chalerm were up to not that long ago.
Your ‘previous’ was the use of delay in holding back comments from those again not agreeing with the general mood on the site. I admit you were quite open about doing this. And yes, thank you, you did accept my post, but if New Mandala is going to be open to all and in administration hold a neutral position, then let it. If you want it to follow a certain line then be open on what that line is.
The disappearing comments are obviously not going to be neutral as the majority view among the readership is weighted in favour of view that the red shirt movement is not tied to one man’s political ambitions.
Not a threat. We go to considerable lengths to protect contributor’s confidentiality. But the constant bleating about free expression from those who hide behind their angry avatars gets rather tedious, especially given the time that we put in (night and day) to make their views available as quickly as possible.
From Rajaprarop again – according to our security guard at least 5 are dead from the 8am outburst of gun-shots; one of whom we can see and apparently 4 are on the other side. There is no way to tell if these are red-shirts or simply residents seeing what was happening this morning. The person we can see looks like a woman, but it is too far to tell clearly. The military is positioned further down the street and appears to be shooting at anything or one that moves.
Les, is there a site where Thailand’s chip-on-the-shoulder expats get more coverage in discussion of Southeast Asian affairs than New Mandala? Some of you simply won’t believe it, but we have never censored based on the views people express. We happily and promptly published a post you sent us a couple of weeks ago. Under the current system, which we are trialling, poorly rated comments (and there have been few of them) can still be read. I know this may be hard to believe, but over the past couple of days I have not had a lot of time to tweak the settings to adjust how poorly rated comments are dealt with so we can experiement with various approaches. What in particular do you feel is suppressed (apart from your real name)? AW
StanG I was on rama 4 yesterday, and soldiers definitely were attacking the red camp.
The 30m story is funny, but many people were shot from very far, some by snipers like seen on CNN footage. None I saw had firearm.
What about the 3 journalists injured ? I suppose they provoked the army ? The canadian was shot 2 more times while he was injured lying on the ground.
What about the medic who was shot dead while attending a wounded ? Disgusting taunting too ?
And what about the video showing soldiers shooting inside Lumpini ? They were not attacking ? Who provoked them ?
I am suspicious of your motives with the rating system. It’s not the counting of votes that concerns me, rather it’s the way that count makes a comment disappear.
Andrew, you have what we call in London ‘previous’ on the issue of censorship running the New Mandala blog. I feel this is just more indirect censorship on your part. It would be better to be honest and say you only accept comments that generally agree with the majority view of Thailand among those reading the blog.
Stan G ,
Your cheap rethoric cannot hide the fact that 16 civilians have been killed last night and zero soldiers.
From the pictures I saw , they were all head shots consistent with sniper fire ( like Saeh Daeng).
Who, except the Army, has the sniper rifles and qualified sharpshooters ?
I wonder what a guy like you has to win in the perpetuation of the Thai anachronsim ?
@StanG
You obviously don’t comprehend what is going on here. The Red Guards are trying to prevent the army from locking the rally site down completely. They want to prevent the army from getting too close to the main rally site. Their tactics to use small mobile teams to attack the army from different sides with a hit and run approach is a good way to avoid even heavier casualties. The result is that there is quite some chaos among the soldiers and they always leave some small sois unprotected. The rules of engagement applied by the army are clearly criminal and show the utter disrespect for human life and human rights by the government. Shooting live ammunition into civilians without firearms approaching closer than 30 meters is absolutely never acceptable by any standards. It’s already illegal to use an army trained for war and to fight a foreign invading army against unarmed civil countrymen.
..these youths throw molotov cocktails or fire homemade rockets at the advancing troops. You expect them to fly white flags and kowtow to the well-armed soldiers ?
If you defend their right to fight the army, don’t cry about casualties.
From yesterday’s clashes, we can see a pattern here, namely whenever the military approaches any red defensive line, local youths and taxi motorcyclists rise up and resist (without being asked by red leaders at Rajprasong). This will be the permanent pattern because these guys do not like the military who invade their “territory”. These young guys are rather reckless (remember Songkran annual festival’s death toll where motorcyclists always top the list) n don’t care about dying. See Bkk Post’s version of death toll here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/177936/16-killed-157-injured-in-clashes
I think I can read the military’s mind here — so far they try to attack from the south/southeast (see clashes in Silom intersection, Wireless, Klongtoey, Satorn, Suanphlu, etc) and the north (clashes in Pratunam, Rajprarob, Soi Rangnam, Dindaeng intersection. Wonder why they have not tried to attack from the east (Ploenchit/Sukhumvit) or the west (MBK, Siam Paragon, etc). Is it because there are many commercial buildings or expat residence there ? But I can assure you that resistance will appear from local people in the area, especially youths.
StanG, # 55, you are right these youths throw molotov cocktails or fire homemade rockets at the advancing troops. You expect them to fly white flags and kowtow to the well-armed soldiers ? Last night, when I listened to Panitan, former Chula lecturer, now top CRES official, speaking in perfect English on tv, I thought it was you speaking.
Tarrin, soldiers ARE NOT firing in the barricades, you can’t even see the barricades from the sites of major battles – Wireless, Sathorn, Ding Daeng or Rangnam.
Over& Out, there have been multiple M79 explosions, at BTS station and Rajprarop, and some grenades fired at the army post, too.
I guess now the soldiers treat every potential attack group as carrying a grenade launcher, too.
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Rating comments
Les, maybe because if NM was ‘open to all’, things would be much less sensible and considered. I could just spam the site with an anti-monarchy agenda and get it blocked in Thailand. It works both ways. There’s a fine line to tread.. why do you fail to see this?
I think the ‘posting under your real name’ business sort of implies that Andrew and Nich have taken a considerable and courageous risk with their own identities and careers running this site, and you have not by posting on it anonymously. I’m sure Andrew and Nich have protected peoples identities who have something controversial to say. When was the last time you wrote something controversial?
Bangkok: A dangerous new phase
As happened in 92 the motorbike boys will take casualties. Running on testosterone like young men everywhere they will take more chances than their older sponsors and leaders. The young conscripts will running on the same testosterone and getting more dangerous.
When it’s all over the blood will be on many hands and not just the government, the army, Thaksin and the red shirt leaders. It will also be on the academics, both local and expats, who gave the red shirt movement respectability it didn’t earn and tried to convince the world that this was a class struggle not the ambitions of the richest Thai man trying to buy a revolution.
So guys after this is all over, just sometimes look at your hands and see if you can see the blood. Unfortunately I suspect you will not see it and you will sleep well.
Bangkok: A dangerous new phase
On his Twitter page Alastair Leithead (BBC BKK correspondent) asks –
“Saturday challenge. Can anyone, in one Tweet, explain who the red shirts are and what they want in a fair, balanced and accurate way? “.
Alastair, I don’t have a Twitter account. My reply is ” these are a big part of Thailand and they want RESPECT from the establishment”
Rating comments
Not a threat. We go to considerable lengths to protect contributor’s confidentiality.
Then why bring up that I am posting under alias and you know my real name? There are people on both sides of this dispute that would see their real names being known as being quite dangerous if the future didn’t proceed in way they would like.
Bangkok: A dangerous new phase
StanG, you made your point. We have both – who propose and oppose the crackdown. We understand where you come from. But frankly does this forum be consumed by these discussions? These were meant to be posted last week.
By the way Nation reports that Din Daeng expressway exit is blocked by red shirt taxis. Does it mean that clashes are also occuring outside the main area?
Rating comments
Les, is there a site where Thailand’s chip-on-the-shoulder expats get more coverage in discussion…
So to disagree with the expat academic consensus is to have a chip-on-the-shoulder is it? Or maybe it’s to have been around long enough to actually have a memory of what people like Chavalit and Chalerm were up to not that long ago.
Your ‘previous’ was the use of delay in holding back comments from those again not agreeing with the general mood on the site. I admit you were quite open about doing this. And yes, thank you, you did accept my post, but if New Mandala is going to be open to all and in administration hold a neutral position, then let it. If you want it to follow a certain line then be open on what that line is.
The disappearing comments are obviously not going to be neutral as the majority view among the readership is weighted in favour of view that the red shirt movement is not tied to one man’s political ambitions.
Rating comments
Not a threat. We go to considerable lengths to protect contributor’s confidentiality. But the constant bleating about free expression from those who hide behind their angry avatars gets rather tedious, especially given the time that we put in (night and day) to make their views available as quickly as possible.
Rating comments
What in particular do you feel is suppressed (apart from your real name)? AW
What is that Andrew, a threat? If not there was no need to say it.
Bangkok: A dangerous new phase
So says you.
It’s a wall of people with rocks and molotov cocktails and sharpened bamboo sticks that can easily pierce a body.
Who says the army must fight them only with batons and shields?
Try approaching any american army checkpoint that way, see what happens.
Bangkok: A dangerous new phase
From Rajaprarop again – according to our security guard at least 5 are dead from the 8am outburst of gun-shots; one of whom we can see and apparently 4 are on the other side. There is no way to tell if these are red-shirts or simply residents seeing what was happening this morning. The person we can see looks like a woman, but it is too far to tell clearly. The military is positioned further down the street and appears to be shooting at anything or one that moves.
Rating comments
Les, is there a site where Thailand’s chip-on-the-shoulder expats get more coverage in discussion of Southeast Asian affairs than New Mandala? Some of you simply won’t believe it, but we have never censored based on the views people express. We happily and promptly published a post you sent us a couple of weeks ago. Under the current system, which we are trialling, poorly rated comments (and there have been few of them) can still be read. I know this may be hard to believe, but over the past couple of days I have not had a lot of time to tweak the settings to adjust how poorly rated comments are dealt with so we can experiement with various approaches. What in particular do you feel is suppressed (apart from your real name)? AW
Bangkok: A dangerous new phase
StanG I was on rama 4 yesterday, and soldiers definitely were attacking the red camp.
The 30m story is funny, but many people were shot from very far, some by snipers like seen on CNN footage. None I saw had firearm.
What about the 3 journalists injured ? I suppose they provoked the army ? The canadian was shot 2 more times while he was injured lying on the ground.
What about the medic who was shot dead while attending a wounded ? Disgusting taunting too ?
And what about the video showing soldiers shooting inside Lumpini ? They were not attacking ? Who provoked them ?
Rating comments
I am suspicious of your motives with the rating system. It’s not the counting of votes that concerns me, rather it’s the way that count makes a comment disappear.
Andrew, you have what we call in London ‘previous’ on the issue of censorship running the New Mandala blog. I feel this is just more indirect censorship on your part. It would be better to be honest and say you only accept comments that generally agree with the majority view of Thailand among those reading the blog.
Bangkok: A dangerous new phase
Stan G ,
Your cheap rethoric cannot hide the fact that 16 civilians have been killed last night and zero soldiers.
From the pictures I saw , they were all head shots consistent with sniper fire ( like Saeh Daeng).
Who, except the Army, has the sniper rifles and qualified sharpshooters ?
I wonder what a guy like you has to win in the perpetuation of the Thai anachronsim ?
Bangkok: A dangerous new phase
local youths and taxi motorcyclists rise up and resist (without being asked by red leaders at Rajprasong).
Hogan, it may be worth asking who controls the motorbike taxi stands. Do you know the answer because if not there are plenty here that could tell you.
Bangkok: A dangerous new phase
@StanG
You obviously don’t comprehend what is going on here. The Red Guards are trying to prevent the army from locking the rally site down completely. They want to prevent the army from getting too close to the main rally site. Their tactics to use small mobile teams to attack the army from different sides with a hit and run approach is a good way to avoid even heavier casualties. The result is that there is quite some chaos among the soldiers and they always leave some small sois unprotected. The rules of engagement applied by the army are clearly criminal and show the utter disrespect for human life and human rights by the government. Shooting live ammunition into civilians without firearms approaching closer than 30 meters is absolutely never acceptable by any standards. It’s already illegal to use an army trained for war and to fight a foreign invading army against unarmed civil countrymen.
Bangkok: A dangerous new phase
If you defend their right to fight the army, don’t cry about casualties.
Bangkok: A dangerous new phase
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1273822369&grpid=&catid=02
Who try to kill Seh Daeng?
Bangkok: A dangerous new phase
From yesterday’s clashes, we can see a pattern here, namely whenever the military approaches any red defensive line, local youths and taxi motorcyclists rise up and resist (without being asked by red leaders at Rajprasong). This will be the permanent pattern because these guys do not like the military who invade their “territory”. These young guys are rather reckless (remember Songkran annual festival’s death toll where motorcyclists always top the list) n don’t care about dying. See Bkk Post’s version of death toll here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/177936/16-killed-157-injured-in-clashes
I think I can read the military’s mind here — so far they try to attack from the south/southeast (see clashes in Silom intersection, Wireless, Klongtoey, Satorn, Suanphlu, etc) and the north (clashes in Pratunam, Rajprarob, Soi Rangnam, Dindaeng intersection. Wonder why they have not tried to attack from the east (Ploenchit/Sukhumvit) or the west (MBK, Siam Paragon, etc). Is it because there are many commercial buildings or expat residence there ? But I can assure you that resistance will appear from local people in the area, especially youths.
StanG, # 55, you are right these youths throw molotov cocktails or fire homemade rockets at the advancing troops. You expect them to fly white flags and kowtow to the well-armed soldiers ? Last night, when I listened to Panitan, former Chula lecturer, now top CRES official, speaking in perfect English on tv, I thought it was you speaking.
Bangkok: A dangerous new phase
Tarrin, soldiers ARE NOT firing in the barricades, you can’t even see the barricades from the sites of major battles – Wireless, Sathorn, Ding Daeng or Rangnam.
Over& Out, there have been multiple M79 explosions, at BTS station and Rajprarop, and some grenades fired at the army post, too.
I guess now the soldiers treat every potential attack group as carrying a grenade launcher, too.