I don’t remember this being done so much in the south of Thailand
Is it more a northern Thailand/ Lao custom ?
Or was I just having too good a time in the South, to notice ?
Desperation. Plain and simple. When all else fails–pull out the lese majeste card. Nothing new. You know what? I hope the Red shirt leaders exploit this the way it should be–shameless exploitation of the monarchy against the Reds.
From my experience at these protests the vast majority respect the king and have no interest in overthrowing the monarchy. Although many of them are aware that this king has sided with the Yellow/multicolor /Pink shirts and feel it is wrong.
And for you Yellow shirts and government censers out there please do us all a favor and come up with a better argument for your political support than: “We love the King!”
In the three decades that I have been an observer in SEA, I have seen only two stellar examples of NGOs.
WHO when they went into rural Lao PDR and helped avert a cholera epidemic, and Doctors Without Borders in various places in SEA. I am sure there are a few others.
But mostly I see World Vision Leaders on junkets (I was in the Traders Hotel in Rangoon and had the unfortunate opportunity, to listen in among a group of hi/so middle class white women discuss there current trip….. To Traders hotel in Burma where they were going to the gem market, then they were off to Bangkok good meals were discussed, and then they were going to see Angkor Wat, followed by a Trip to Hanoi and Hai Long Bay. Paid for by members. No mention made of any local visits to charities, oppressed people, etc.
This present, de facto government of Thailand is coming more and more to resemble the regime in Burma. I await the dissolution of the parliament and the election of a bona fide, de jure government. I hope it is not too much longer now.
Given the article by the “Freelander” this morning I certainly hope the dissolution of this government comes in time to keep all the Queen’s men from assuming power in the military. They will certainly make trouble for years to come if they are able to attain power.
No matter who assumes power in the military, the next bona fide government is going to have to reduce it. This coup business has got to come to an end and the throwers of coups jailed, made an example of.
A big thank you to the author for this very comprehensive article on the situation. In Thailand news are scrutnized, distorted when not banished and censored and the article reveals what in fact people talk about and cannot publish. Wish all Thai and foreign people could read this article, this would open the eyes of many…
In reference to the wacky graph/flow chart/organization chart allegedly “showing” the anti-royal conspiracy” that was recently distributed by the present Thailand government, a “journalist” named Thanong at THE NATION newspaper in Bangkok has written a long piece based on this graph/chart in which he seemingly takes it as a serious and substantial piece of “evidence” for such a supposed conspiracy….
(For anyone who has had the pleasure of watching a few of the infamous Glenn Beck tv shows/commentaries on FOX TV in the U.S., the graph/flow chart in question bears a remarkable resemblance to the kind of wacky graphs/charts Glenn Beck often makes use of to “show proof” of whatever off-the-wall argument he happens to be making at that moment in time)
What is not explained is why the red shirts are demonstrating. There is definitely a worrying state of affairs in Bangkok and in Thailand as to who is in control and why the red shirts continue unabated and seem to have free will. Last night I saw on TV the red shirts stopped a police van in Ladprao and searched it. It should have been the other way around. The police should have stopped the red shirts van and searched it and so it leads to serious questions as to who is running the country and the armed forces – in particular the police and army.
Also the fact that the Monarchy is above criticism and discussion cannot be good for the country as a whole and most countries have ditched this approach. Ferance removed the head of its King and Royal family. In England, there has been a more measured approach and they have lost favour over the years. We Brits consider this to be part of normal and healthy democracy – notably after the USA became a republic and could criticise their leaders – to be able to criticise the monarchy without fear of reprisal.
But one thing still worries me. And that is the little that Taksin is featured in all of this. It is after his Billions were confiscated that all of this has kicked off. So the question is what are the reds fighting for? I would love to see a list of demands and statement of belief other than dissolving parliament. Are they fighting for Taskin’s Billions or are they fighting against perceived discrimination? We all know that dark skinned fermers are discriminated against on many levels. On their skin colour and where they come from. But is Taksin the man to lead the movement, and if so why are they campaigning for his Billions? And so it is is all confused with so many power brokers. Who knows who is who and if correct. But Taksin can’t be the man to champion the rights of the poor. And that is why there is such opposisition to the man.
Thank you for your input. “Policy talks” for ET and skills upgrading are not so new in Thailand. They’ve been around for about two decades now. Please see the TDRI’s two vols., Educational Options for the Future of Thailand (1991). The study was partly commissioned by Thailand’s NESDB. Proposals for a policy linkage between industrial sectors (manufacturing also identified) and ET institutions were also put across.
Skills/human resource has always been an issue for Thailand’s development strategy; but it’s only part of the chaos we’re deeply buried ourselves in. On a personal note, I think it may be time for Thailand to forget manufacturing. Let the World Bank’s alumni- the NIEs (newly industrialised economies, but old cultures)- get on with it. Thais are better at doing other stuff.
[…] PM Abhisit did not put in the table any political proposal. Since the first day stick with only one point. Dissolution of the House in 9 month and reform of the political system in between although not mentioning what to reform. Since last year PM has been the main opposition to the most though reform of the political system. he is right that going into elections in the current climate is useless but should have clear proposals on to bring the country forward and he does not. he is stuck because of the enormous conflict in the military ( http://www.newmandala.org/2010/04/27/the-deep-political-crisis-within-the-royal-thai-…). […]
[…] so his knowledge must not be purely theoretic. Here it goes, according to first New Mandala translation from his article in a red magazine:1. Senior government civil and military officers nurtured under […]
This is a real bit of news, a coup for New Mandala! It provides details for what we would come to expect: that political tensions within the armed forces come to reflect those in Thai society generally. Officers whose careers languish because promotions are reserved for those with politically correct, strong yellow views, begin to identify with socially disadvantaged civilian Thais, and drift towards the Red cause. They gamble their last hope of promotion on a change of government. The breath-taking attack on the commanders of the April 10 military operation shows that the malcontents are not only prepared to wage guerrilla warfare against the yellow faction, but are capable of devastating success.
In addition to the very pertinent questions posted by Scott@#7,
I’d also like to ask :
1) Where is Class 13 in all this ?
The writer does n’t mention them once.
Could they be a “tipping force” ?
2)’Abhisit’s, and Thailand’s, real problem lies in the Army. “Entrenched military involvement in politics and political involvement in the military have demoralized career soldiers. There is no sincere respect for the current and future leaders who have climbed to the top without direct experience in real combat, but only through honorary decorations,” said a general who asked not to be named. ‘
How much is this connected to the stale-mate / near-defeat the RTA is facing in Pattani ?
Is Pattani, in any sense, becoming Thailand’s approximate equivalent of the US Vietnam experience? (Eg. military demoralisation).
3) And how does the writer’s paragraph here above relate to any possible de-facto federalism ?
When I suggested more federalism to Marc Askew, months ago now, he replied that “the Thai military would never accept it”.
To which I replied that Suharto’s Indonesian military voiced similar refusal, but have now accepted de-facto federalism (much of it run through rival military factions !!).
How is the queen effecting patronage over her alleged clients such as Anupong and Prayuth?
What do her clients stand to gain from association with someone whose popularity is somewhat less than the old man himself?
If they have or are each cultivating clients what does that say, if anything, about the state of their relationships and interests?
Is it necessarily the case that mid-ranking officers and rank-and-file uniforms will continue to play this game amid the increasing transparency brought to society by mobile phones and the internet, which are a factor it seems in the rise of the Red movement and what may be the emerging prai consciousness?
Why were the commanders and their staff clustered together in the vulnerable vanguard of the operation on the evening of the 10th April?
Commanders are usually to the rear where they can take a broader view of an operation and all its elements rather up at the front where the view is usually rather more narrow.
Was it because they did not trust the platoon commanders and non-commissioned officers to remain calm and keep troops armed with live rounds under control in a tense situation?
Was it simply bad fieldcraft, poor tactics and arrogance?
Blaming their deaths and injuries on peeved rivals in the army may be more convenient than the luck of a random grenade which just happened to fall on people who probably should not all have been together in the vanguard?
Video shot behind the army lines that night suggests the operation fell apart after senior commanders were hit. In at least two videos there appear to be few medics, no stretcher bearers and no ambulances. Quite the opposite of what is seen in videos shot behind Red lines. Perhaps further cause to doubt the capabilities of those involved in authorizing, planning and leading that operation?
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Response on “string theory”
I don’t remember this being done so much in the south of Thailand
Is it more a northern Thailand/ Lao custom ?
Or was I just having too good a time in the South, to notice ?
Suthep threatens arrests
Desperation. Plain and simple. When all else fails–pull out the lese majeste card. Nothing new. You know what? I hope the Red shirt leaders exploit this the way it should be–shameless exploitation of the monarchy against the Reds.
From my experience at these protests the vast majority respect the king and have no interest in overthrowing the monarchy. Although many of them are aware that this king has sided with the Yellow/multicolor /Pink shirts and feel it is wrong.
And for you Yellow shirts and government censers out there please do us all a favor and come up with a better argument for your political support than: “We love the King!”
It ain’t about the king. It’s about DEMOCRACY.
“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
“This writer’s access to a number of RTA officers leads him to offer the following thoughts on the matter.”
Rumours reported by an anonymous writer are worthless.
The betrayal of human rights mandarins
In the three decades that I have been an observer in SEA, I have seen only two stellar examples of NGOs.
WHO when they went into rural Lao PDR and helped avert a cholera epidemic, and Doctors Without Borders in various places in SEA. I am sure there are a few others.
But mostly I see World Vision Leaders on junkets (I was in the Traders Hotel in Rangoon and had the unfortunate opportunity, to listen in among a group of hi/so middle class white women discuss there current trip….. To Traders hotel in Burma where they were going to the gem market, then they were off to Bangkok good meals were discussed, and then they were going to see Angkor Wat, followed by a Trip to Hanoi and Hai Long Bay. Paid for by members. No mention made of any local visits to charities, oppressed people, etc.
yada yada yada….
Suthep threatens arrests
This present, de facto government of Thailand is coming more and more to resemble the regime in Burma. I await the dissolution of the parliament and the election of a bona fide, de jure government. I hope it is not too much longer now.
Given the article by the “Freelander” this morning I certainly hope the dissolution of this government comes in time to keep all the Queen’s men from assuming power in the military. They will certainly make trouble for years to come if they are able to attain power.
No matter who assumes power in the military, the next bona fide government is going to have to reduce it. This coup business has got to come to an end and the throwers of coups jailed, made an example of.
“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
Disgruntled, over-looked and deeply disaffected factions of the military exact revenge on 10 April.
Aren’t these the exact same characteristics and qualities demonstrated by the Red-Shirt movement in general?
Brothers in Arms.
“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
A big thank you to the author for this very comprehensive article on the situation. In Thailand news are scrutnized, distorted when not banished and censored and the article reveals what in fact people talk about and cannot publish. Wish all Thai and foreign people could read this article, this would open the eyes of many…
Suthep threatens arrests
In reference to the wacky graph/flow chart/organization chart allegedly “showing” the anti-royal conspiracy” that was recently distributed by the present Thailand government, a “journalist” named Thanong at THE NATION newspaper in Bangkok has written a long piece based on this graph/chart in which he seemingly takes it as a serious and substantial piece of “evidence” for such a supposed conspiracy….
http://bit.ly/8ZeHVt
(For anyone who has had the pleasure of watching a few of the infamous Glenn Beck tv shows/commentaries on FOX TV in the U.S., the graph/flow chart in question bears a remarkable resemblance to the kind of wacky graphs/charts Glenn Beck often makes use of to “show proof” of whatever off-the-wall argument he happens to be making at that moment in time)
“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
What is not explained is why the red shirts are demonstrating. There is definitely a worrying state of affairs in Bangkok and in Thailand as to who is in control and why the red shirts continue unabated and seem to have free will. Last night I saw on TV the red shirts stopped a police van in Ladprao and searched it. It should have been the other way around. The police should have stopped the red shirts van and searched it and so it leads to serious questions as to who is running the country and the armed forces – in particular the police and army.
Also the fact that the Monarchy is above criticism and discussion cannot be good for the country as a whole and most countries have ditched this approach. Ferance removed the head of its King and Royal family. In England, there has been a more measured approach and they have lost favour over the years. We Brits consider this to be part of normal and healthy democracy – notably after the USA became a republic and could criticise their leaders – to be able to criticise the monarchy without fear of reprisal.
But one thing still worries me. And that is the little that Taksin is featured in all of this. It is after his Billions were confiscated that all of this has kicked off. So the question is what are the reds fighting for? I would love to see a list of demands and statement of belief other than dissolving parliament. Are they fighting for Taskin’s Billions or are they fighting against perceived discrimination? We all know that dark skinned fermers are discriminated against on many levels. On their skin colour and where they come from. But is Taksin the man to lead the movement, and if so why are they campaigning for his Billions? And so it is is all confused with so many power brokers. Who knows who is who and if correct. But Taksin can’t be the man to champion the rights of the poor. And that is why there is such opposisition to the man.
The speech that wasn’t televised
(From Total War – Peter Calvocoressi and Guy Winter –
discussing the events and social changes which led to
the outbreak of war in Europe in 1939)
QUOTE:”The new urban classes began to exert pressure and
command sympathy. What they wanted was vague – less
misery and poverty, more fairness, more self-respect –
but it implied upheaval. The traditional givers of laws
amd mores (churches, kings and nobles), and the laws and
the mores themselves, lost authority under rational
scrutiny and popular suspicion. It was not immediately
clear what the new values were nor where they were to
come from. New elites, professing a democratic instead
of an aristocratic faith, emerged to take or share the
power which was slipping from the exclusive grasp of the
old regime and which, owing to technical revolutions in
communication and manufacturing, was rapidly becoming
much greater than before.”
Sounds familiar?
Economic strategy and the roots of Thai political turmoil
To Richard Doner,
Thank you for your input. “Policy talks” for ET and skills upgrading are not so new in Thailand. They’ve been around for about two decades now. Please see the TDRI’s two vols., Educational Options for the Future of Thailand (1991). The study was partly commissioned by Thailand’s NESDB. Proposals for a policy linkage between industrial sectors (manufacturing also identified) and ET institutions were also put across.
Skills/human resource has always been an issue for Thailand’s development strategy; but it’s only part of the chaos we’re deeply buried ourselves in. On a personal note, I think it may be time for Thailand to forget manufacturing. Let the World Bank’s alumni- the NIEs (newly industrialised economies, but old cultures)- get on with it. Thais are better at doing other stuff.
“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
[…] PM Abhisit did not put in the table any political proposal. Since the first day stick with only one point. Dissolution of the House in 9 month and reform of the political system in between although not mentioning what to reform. Since last year PM has been the main opposition to the most though reform of the political system. he is right that going into elections in the current climate is useless but should have clear proposals on to bring the country forward and he does not. he is stuck because of the enormous conflict in the military ( http://www.newmandala.org/2010/04/27/the-deep-political-crisis-within-the-royal-thai-…). […]
Jakrapob on the state within the state
[…] so his knowledge must not be purely theoretic. Here it goes, according to first New Mandala translation from his article in a red magazine:1. Senior government civil and military officers nurtured under […]
“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
[…] […]
“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
This is a real bit of news, a coup for New Mandala! It provides details for what we would come to expect: that political tensions within the armed forces come to reflect those in Thai society generally. Officers whose careers languish because promotions are reserved for those with politically correct, strong yellow views, begin to identify with socially disadvantaged civilian Thais, and drift towards the Red cause. They gamble their last hope of promotion on a change of government. The breath-taking attack on the commanders of the April 10 military operation shows that the malcontents are not only prepared to wage guerrilla warfare against the yellow faction, but are capable of devastating success.
Borders of rubber
@Walter
If you are still in Jinghong please email me. Use my name at gmail.
best,
Josh
“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
In addition to the very pertinent questions posted by Scott@#7,
I’d also like to ask :
1) Where is Class 13 in all this ?
The writer does n’t mention them once.
Could they be a “tipping force” ?
2)’Abhisit’s, and Thailand’s, real problem lies in the Army. “Entrenched military involvement in politics and political involvement in the military have demoralized career soldiers. There is no sincere respect for the current and future leaders who have climbed to the top without direct experience in real combat, but only through honorary decorations,” said a general who asked not to be named. ‘
How much is this connected to the stale-mate / near-defeat the RTA is facing in Pattani ?
Is Pattani, in any sense, becoming Thailand’s approximate equivalent of the US Vietnam experience? (Eg. military demoralisation).
3) And how does the writer’s paragraph here above relate to any possible de-facto federalism ?
When I suggested more federalism to Marc Askew, months ago now, he replied that “the Thai military would never accept it”.
To which I replied that Suharto’s Indonesian military voiced similar refusal, but have now accepted de-facto federalism (much of it run through rival military factions !!).
Giles Ji Ungpakorn on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
Sattahibo:
Before you write a comment, read the target post properly.
“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
How is the queen effecting patronage over her alleged clients such as Anupong and Prayuth?
What do her clients stand to gain from association with someone whose popularity is somewhat less than the old man himself?
If they have or are each cultivating clients what does that say, if anything, about the state of their relationships and interests?
Is it necessarily the case that mid-ranking officers and rank-and-file uniforms will continue to play this game amid the increasing transparency brought to society by mobile phones and the internet, which are a factor it seems in the rise of the Red movement and what may be the emerging prai consciousness?
Why were the commanders and their staff clustered together in the vulnerable vanguard of the operation on the evening of the 10th April?
Commanders are usually to the rear where they can take a broader view of an operation and all its elements rather up at the front where the view is usually rather more narrow.
Was it because they did not trust the platoon commanders and non-commissioned officers to remain calm and keep troops armed with live rounds under control in a tense situation?
Was it simply bad fieldcraft, poor tactics and arrogance?
Blaming their deaths and injuries on peeved rivals in the army may be more convenient than the luck of a random grenade which just happened to fall on people who probably should not all have been together in the vanguard?
Video shot behind the army lines that night suggests the operation fell apart after senior commanders were hit. In at least two videos there appear to be few medics, no stretcher bearers and no ambulances. Quite the opposite of what is seen in videos shot behind Red lines. Perhaps further cause to doubt the capabilities of those involved in authorizing, planning and leading that operation?
Ominous signs
I suggest exile in Sweden. Land of the Smorgasbord.