Tarrin’s spelling of the Thai word, р╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕З, was incorrect.
Also, his translation took away the spirit of the phrases.
р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕З р╕Бр╕╣р╕бр╕▓р╣Ар╕нр╕З should be translated as, “No need to hire me, I willingly come here myself.”
р╕бр╕╢р╕Зр╕Чр╕│р╕нр╕░р╣Др╕гр╕Бр╣Зр╕Цр╕╣р╕Б р╕Бр╕╣р╕Чр╕│р╕нр╕░р╣Др╕гр╕Бр╣Зр╕Ьр╕┤р╕Ф should be translated as, “Whatever you do is right, whatever I do is wrong.”
The Truth Today says р╕лр╕вр╕╕р╕Ф! 2 р╕бр╕▓р╕Хр╕гр╕Рр╕▓р╕Щ.
It means, “Stop double standard!”
I think Aphisit and those pulling strings behind him should stop the discrediting operation against the NM.
[…] The ANU Youtube Channel has video of four of the presentations (Farrelly, Jackson, Walker and Warr) from Thailand on the Verge held on 21 April 2010. An audio podcast of all the speakers is available here. […]
[…] is a response to my post on Imagining a new mandala in mainland Southeast Asia. In that post I suggested that the use of string in ritual contexts can provide a useful model for […]
Jothestrong: “You would not drink alcohol in Arab countries.”
If you’re a Buddhist, you should not drink in ANY country. As an Arab you may or not be able to drink in your own country; as a foreigner, many Arab countries turn a blind eye.
This misses the point: the ABC television program was banned from broadcast abroad (and this ban was rigorously enforced). The question is this: should Australians living in Australia be allowed to watch material that would be subject to lèse majesté laws in Thailand? I think it’s fair to also consider the sensibilities of Thais living in Australia but then they could also simple turn off their TV (which might be a good idea in ANY country).
I have to disagree with Chris Beale’s reference to R5’s “extraordinary, brave, and ingenious struggle to free the phrai.” Ingenious maybe, but not brave, and not altruistic. R5 wanted to tax income and put people under his own control. Abolishing slavery meant that the phrai had to be paid, and their wages were taxable, and the former slaveowners no longer had the power they formerly had when they owned labor.
I second John H, that is a real stab in the dark, and so vague, so lacking in explanation it’s like saying “Stalin led to greater democracy in Russia.” yeah, he did, sequentially, but consequently? And over how long?
Sorry, but it almost sounds like kneejerk Australian Republicanism talking more than substantial analysis.
To get beyond simple speculation you have to say how that could happen… everyone suddenly gets wise and commits to a democratically elected government? Or the country undergoes a second ,fuller revolution? Or what? Why couldn’t the opposite be equally likely, that the military and a Vajiralongkorn palace pull more power to themselves. There are democracies that became dictatorships…
Moreover, I think you’ve exaggerated the significance of Thaksin’s comments. It’s not that he spoke positively about Vajiralongkorn. Everyoone knows you have to do that anyway. It’s simply that in Thailand as many places you don’t speak about people as dead until they are dead, and Rama IX is still with us. That was the ‘delicate taboo’ Thaksin broke, another sign that he either doesn’t get it or doesn’t care — putting him out of the mainstream for better or worse.
1) “It’s not only Campbell, though, he produced the show for the general public, for their tastes, and his superiors approved it, and they supposed to know their audience.”
Unfortunately far too much of the Australian public remains Asia-illiterate – former PM John Howard, who cut back on Asian Studies, is clearly responsible for this.
And the ABC unfortunately has become more sensationalist, more tabloid, in recent years, due to budget, and increasingly commercial, pressures.
2) “I can’t imagine them showing this kind of footage of any “white” royalty, government leadership, or plain celebrities.”
To the best of my knowledge, the ABC has not yet done this.
But Western media certainly have – eg. Princess Dianna, and others.
3) ” Or Chinese or Japanese”.
It would be very difficult indeed to get anything like this video onto even the pirated black market in either country.
The really surprising thing is that somehow this video was leaked by very, very high-ranking Thais.
Lek have you ever been to Thailand. Have you ever spent a few minutes in a Thai village, even a Thaksin loving one?
If you are Thai I am sure you are privileged to speak such nonsense. If you are not Thai well…….
Quite simply he is loved and even at the most red of demos you wiull find this and elsewhere it will be even more pervasive
As far as I can tell, the only Alliance position questioned is this one: 11. Respect private grief and personal privacy. Journalists have the right to resist compulsion to intrude. So was the personal privacy respected? If this video has been in the public domain for years, how much privacy is being protected?
[…] his image internationally. He has had to consolidate power to protect himself from UMNO (read here) while he has focused on the international dimension as this is the only area within which the […]
fall #1 – I agree that Chang Noi does tend to (very slightly, I’d say – they have a lot of muck to counter) redeem Nation, but they are not “the only” writers who are worth reading. What about Pravit Rojanaphruk, whose pieces are frequently reproduced on Prachatai English?
The question of how well King Bhumibol is loved by the Thais will never be answered definitively, as long as people know they can go to jail for professing anything but eternal love.
They also know that, once arrested for lese majeste, they will be held without bail, which means you rot in jail for months, even if ultimately acquitted, which is rare, or pardoned, which is even more rare unless you’re a foreigner who gets unwanted international press attention.
You have to live in Thailand to appreciate the degree to which the divination of the King saturates this society. The flow of propaganda is constant, whether in glorified photos everywhere, highway shrines, TV channels devoted to royal activities or historic films of royal visits that have run longer than any soap in the history of TV.
Surf Thai TV day or night and you are likely to find some program singing the praises of the great king. Do that sort of thing for 60 years and it’s bound to have an effect on a society that functions in wide rural areas just above grade school level and watches TV as the national past-time.
The problems with cultivating this intense cult of personality, however, is that it’s unlikely to survive the person. As genuine or contrived as the Thais’ love for Bhumibol may be, it has been orchestrated as something so intensely personal to the man that it may well die with him.
What do you do when the word gets out that God has died and that he who walks on water will be replaced by someone who can’t even swim.
I saw the movie “Young Victoria” and I think a lot of what happened in England in the 18th resembled some aspects of what is happening now in Thailand. The achievement of democracy (or people’s power) was and has not been an easy process. It was and has been a battle of power. The movement of reds in Thailand should not be seen as “protests” but rather a struggle of the commons.
I hope the Thai political process can take after what happened in England 150 years ago and evolved to be a matured democracy (with a constitutional monarch as in England now) despite some pains.
Ajarn John, Do you remember the post 9/11 joke about the guy who only had 37 US flags on his lawn so his neighbour called him a commie? (People got angry about that one too)
I feel I have to leap in here as you have misunderstood the intention of my post and I don’t wanted it hijacked by marxists either! The point was not to equate the monarch with Stalin but to point out that what one sees in Thailand is the customs of an age and culture which is undergoing change. All cultures and beliefs are transient whether we like it or not and change is endemic to man and nature. (As the buddha instructs) The Gods of Olympus no longer hold great sway over the greeks. Few Germans have a picture of Hitler on the wall at home and fewer yet Queen Victoria (or Ethelred the Unready) Tho they were popular in their time. Crucifixes are no longer so common in European households but were common before the reformation. I doubt there are as many pictures of the pope as there once were. I personally suspect King Bhumipols cult status will increase in years to come as has King Rama IV, since veneration of sacred objects still is a deeply held and widely practiced belief system in those SE Asian nations that were not indoctrinated by communism and enforced atheism. As an observer it is not for me to poke fun at anothers belief system but I have an interest in how and why these beliefs are cultivated and by whom and for what purpose which I might naively hope to be acceptable in a modern world. Of course if I suggested that muslim families had an image of the prophet in their homes I might be struck with a Fatwa and this, sadly; furthers my point. Why through the ages have questions not been allowed? Why could Galileo not claim that the earth revolved around the sun with impunity. Have we not developed? I don’t believe I have criticised the king. Tho I have personally heard him say twice that he should be criticised if he did wrong. I have tried to read widely and unbiasedly and I would argue that he has been very much a man of his time living in and through extraordinary circumstances. I do however have some questions on how the state functions and to what extent it is for the benefit of the polity. I am by no means a Thaksin supporter. Tho I’m frustrated that I should even have to make such a disclaimer. I must therefore finish with:
I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it?
Otherwise how can a society progress?
Thanks Embarrassed Journalist for his thoughtful and provocative contribution. I’m a Thai and not one bit a fan of the Thai Royals. But I certainly agree with what he said.
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Video of Thailand on the Verge
Tarrin’s spelling of the Thai word, р╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕З, was incorrect.
Also, his translation took away the spirit of the phrases.
р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕З р╕Бр╕╣р╕бр╕▓р╣Ар╕нр╕З should be translated as, “No need to hire me, I willingly come here myself.”
р╕бр╕╢р╕Зр╕Чр╕│р╕нр╕░р╣Др╕гр╕Бр╣Зр╕Цр╕╣р╕Б р╕Бр╕╣р╕Чр╕│р╕нр╕░р╣Др╕гр╕Бр╣Зр╕Ьр╕┤р╕Ф should be translated as, “Whatever you do is right, whatever I do is wrong.”
The Truth Today says р╕лр╕вр╕╕р╕Ф! 2 р╕бр╕▓р╕Хр╕гр╕Рр╕▓р╕Щ.
It means, “Stop double standard!”
I think Aphisit and those pulling strings behind him should stop the discrediting operation against the NM.
Video of Thailand on the Verge
[…] Video of some of the presentations is available here. […]
Thailand on the verge – podcast
[…] The ANU Youtube Channel has video of four of the presentations (Farrelly, Jackson, Walker and Warr) from Thailand on the Verge held on 21 April 2010. An audio podcast of all the speakers is available here. […]
Imagining a new mandala in mainland Southeast Asia
[…] is a response to my post on Imagining a new mandala in mainland Southeast Asia. In that post I suggested that the use of string in ritual contexts can provide a useful model for […]
ABC TV on Thai politics
Jothestrong: “You would not drink alcohol in Arab countries.”
If you’re a Buddhist, you should not drink in ANY country. As an Arab you may or not be able to drink in your own country; as a foreigner, many Arab countries turn a blind eye.
This misses the point: the ABC television program was banned from broadcast abroad (and this ban was rigorously enforced). The question is this: should Australians living in Australia be allowed to watch material that would be subject to lèse majesté laws in Thailand? I think it’s fair to also consider the sensibilities of Thais living in Australia but then they could also simple turn off their TV (which might be a good idea in ANY country).
Royal reds, reds, and rebel reds
I have to disagree with Chris Beale’s reference to R5’s “extraordinary, brave, and ingenious struggle to free the phrai.” Ingenious maybe, but not brave, and not altruistic. R5 wanted to tax income and put people under his own control. Abolishing slavery meant that the phrai had to be paid, and their wages were taxable, and the former slaveowners no longer had the power they formerly had when they owned labor.
Why King Vajiralongkorn will be good for Thai Democracy
I second John H, that is a real stab in the dark, and so vague, so lacking in explanation it’s like saying “Stalin led to greater democracy in Russia.” yeah, he did, sequentially, but consequently? And over how long?
Sorry, but it almost sounds like kneejerk Australian Republicanism talking more than substantial analysis.
To get beyond simple speculation you have to say how that could happen… everyone suddenly gets wise and commits to a democratically elected government? Or the country undergoes a second ,fuller revolution? Or what? Why couldn’t the opposite be equally likely, that the military and a Vajiralongkorn palace pull more power to themselves. There are democracies that became dictatorships…
Moreover, I think you’ve exaggerated the significance of Thaksin’s comments. It’s not that he spoke positively about Vajiralongkorn. Everyoone knows you have to do that anyway. It’s simply that in Thailand as many places you don’t speak about people as dead until they are dead, and Rama IX is still with us. That was the ‘delicate taboo’ Thaksin broke, another sign that he either doesn’t get it or doesn’t care — putting him out of the mainstream for better or worse.
Eric Campbell on journalistic duty
StanG #19 :
Re :
1) “It’s not only Campbell, though, he produced the show for the general public, for their tastes, and his superiors approved it, and they supposed to know their audience.”
Unfortunately far too much of the Australian public remains Asia-illiterate – former PM John Howard, who cut back on Asian Studies, is clearly responsible for this.
And the ABC unfortunately has become more sensationalist, more tabloid, in recent years, due to budget, and increasingly commercial, pressures.
2) “I can’t imagine them showing this kind of footage of any “white” royalty, government leadership, or plain celebrities.”
To the best of my knowledge, the ABC has not yet done this.
But Western media certainly have – eg. Princess Dianna, and others.
3) ” Or Chinese or Japanese”.
It would be very difficult indeed to get anything like this video onto even the pirated black market in either country.
The really surprising thing is that somehow this video was leaked by very, very high-ranking Thais.
Royal reds, reds, and rebel reds
Lek have you ever been to Thailand. Have you ever spent a few minutes in a Thai village, even a Thaksin loving one?
If you are Thai I am sure you are privileged to speak such nonsense. If you are not Thai well…….
Quite simply he is loved and even at the most red of demos you wiull find this and elsewhere it will be even more pervasive
More scenes from the stand-off in Bangkok
@ Michael at #6:
Oliver and Percy Thrower were commenting about the anti-Red (ie fed-up with the UDD) protesters, not the Red/UDD protesters.
Eric Campbell on journalistic duty
As far as I can tell, the only Alliance position questioned is this one: 11. Respect private grief and personal privacy. Journalists have the right to resist compulsion to intrude. So was the personal privacy respected? If this video has been in the public domain for years, how much privacy is being protected?
Najib’s defence against UMNO – centralising power
[…] his image internationally. He has had to consolidate power to protect himself from UMNO (read here) while he has focused on the international dimension as this is the only area within which the […]
Review of Chang Noi
I do agree that Chang Noi writes well, but saving grace? Please re-read his articles – main theme “conspiracy of the red kind”
Review of Chang Noi
fall #1 – I agree that Chang Noi does tend to (very slightly, I’d say – they have a lot of muck to counter) redeem Nation, but they are not “the only” writers who are worth reading. What about Pravit Rojanaphruk, whose pieces are frequently reproduced on Prachatai English?
Royal reds, reds, and rebel reds
The question of how well King Bhumibol is loved by the Thais will never be answered definitively, as long as people know they can go to jail for professing anything but eternal love.
They also know that, once arrested for lese majeste, they will be held without bail, which means you rot in jail for months, even if ultimately acquitted, which is rare, or pardoned, which is even more rare unless you’re a foreigner who gets unwanted international press attention.
You have to live in Thailand to appreciate the degree to which the divination of the King saturates this society. The flow of propaganda is constant, whether in glorified photos everywhere, highway shrines, TV channels devoted to royal activities or historic films of royal visits that have run longer than any soap in the history of TV.
Surf Thai TV day or night and you are likely to find some program singing the praises of the great king. Do that sort of thing for 60 years and it’s bound to have an effect on a society that functions in wide rural areas just above grade school level and watches TV as the national past-time.
The problems with cultivating this intense cult of personality, however, is that it’s unlikely to survive the person. As genuine or contrived as the Thais’ love for Bhumibol may be, it has been orchestrated as something so intensely personal to the man that it may well die with him.
What do you do when the word gets out that God has died and that he who walks on water will be replaced by someone who can’t even swim.
Why King Vajiralongkorn will be good for Thai Democracy
I saw the movie “Young Victoria” and I think a lot of what happened in England in the 18th resembled some aspects of what is happening now in Thailand. The achievement of democracy (or people’s power) was and has not been an easy process. It was and has been a battle of power. The movement of reds in Thailand should not be seen as “protests” but rather a struggle of the commons.
I hope the Thai political process can take after what happened in England 150 years ago and evolved to be a matured democracy (with a constitutional monarch as in England now) despite some pains.
Eric Campbell on journalistic duty
Thank you Plato for your comment…
Which shed’s light on part of my viewpoint here.
Imagine ‘Western’ readers if you were Thai, and the time is now.
I think you’d find that my comments would carry a little more weight.
Royal reds, reds, and rebel reds
Adjarn John 12
My schoolteachers, for whom I have the greatest appreciation, taught me, (for better or worse) -like Plato-to question everything.
May I ask what you teach?
Royal reds, reds, and rebel reds
Ajarn John, Do you remember the post 9/11 joke about the guy who only had 37 US flags on his lawn so his neighbour called him a commie? (People got angry about that one too)
I feel I have to leap in here as you have misunderstood the intention of my post and I don’t wanted it hijacked by marxists either! The point was not to equate the monarch with Stalin but to point out that what one sees in Thailand is the customs of an age and culture which is undergoing change. All cultures and beliefs are transient whether we like it or not and change is endemic to man and nature. (As the buddha instructs) The Gods of Olympus no longer hold great sway over the greeks. Few Germans have a picture of Hitler on the wall at home and fewer yet Queen Victoria (or Ethelred the Unready) Tho they were popular in their time. Crucifixes are no longer so common in European households but were common before the reformation. I doubt there are as many pictures of the pope as there once were. I personally suspect King Bhumipols cult status will increase in years to come as has King Rama IV, since veneration of sacred objects still is a deeply held and widely practiced belief system in those SE Asian nations that were not indoctrinated by communism and enforced atheism. As an observer it is not for me to poke fun at anothers belief system but I have an interest in how and why these beliefs are cultivated and by whom and for what purpose which I might naively hope to be acceptable in a modern world. Of course if I suggested that muslim families had an image of the prophet in their homes I might be struck with a Fatwa and this, sadly; furthers my point. Why through the ages have questions not been allowed? Why could Galileo not claim that the earth revolved around the sun with impunity. Have we not developed? I don’t believe I have criticised the king. Tho I have personally heard him say twice that he should be criticised if he did wrong. I have tried to read widely and unbiasedly and I would argue that he has been very much a man of his time living in and through extraordinary circumstances. I do however have some questions on how the state functions and to what extent it is for the benefit of the polity. I am by no means a Thaksin supporter. Tho I’m frustrated that I should even have to make such a disclaimer. I must therefore finish with:
I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it?
Otherwise how can a society progress?
Eric Campbell on journalistic duty
Thanks Embarrassed Journalist for his thoughtful and provocative contribution. I’m a Thai and not one bit a fan of the Thai Royals. But I certainly agree with what he said.