I, for one, and listening seriously to your message, which is perhaps somewhat garbled by ANU moderator. Or maybe not 🙂 So glad, too, that New Mandala is not some Internet-age university of the air that is collecting tuition fees from the netizens. They might make lots of money.
“I am talking about Thaksin. He was just a dictator when he was in power. ”
Fortunately or unfortunately, my impression is that most New Mandala readers would agree. They might add a footnote of several pages-length, but they seem to agree.
“God, have you all forgotten what Thaksin did to the judiciary and the media and all those other government institutions when he was in power???? ”
George#9 :
“a strange decision to start the crackdown in the middle of Bangkok on Saturday afternoon in full view of so many different people, many with digital cameras, mobile phone cameras, etc. It’s as if the government no longer cares what the rest of the world thinks…”
Or that Prem is now SO old he’s lost touch with the modern world.
Zaw Tun, please take your opinion elsewhere. I came here for news update, not your babble. If you don’t have the decency to post NEWs, then you should just go.
@ patiwat, i have been out of burma since i was 18 because i thoroughly despised the military. and i have been working in the burmese democratic movement since then. i have no qualms about not getting accepted into ANU because there are better schools that i can go to where my background and what i have done all my adult life would be appreciated.
i have unfanned myself from UDD Thailand and thus can’t reply what you have said. it is a democracy patiwat, i can have my own opinion in a civilized manner and we can all agree to disagree. if that is not how you perceive it, then it is too bad.
but the facts are out there about the sincerity of the red movement and who bankrolls the whole thing. you will of course disagree with me but i have seen enough and i know what it really is.
i have nothing more to say than “i feel terribly sorry that many intellectual thais got so hung up on the military and the elite and missing the whole point here”.
like i have said, i recognize the problems in thai society, and it has to be solved by the whole thai society. not buy thaksin or a bunch of people in red shirts.
Back to consensus – for two days in a row reds have been battling the state, pushing the security forces to their limits.
Now it’s not a question of whether the government is willing to use force, it’s a question of whether the government can enforce the laws with non-lethal methods if the insurgency continues.
this is a pretty pathetic website. thank god i wasn’t admitted to ANU. you all claim to be experts of democracy and understand democracy and i am just speechless to read what many of you have written.
there are underlying problems in Thai society that needs to be addressed. But what the Reds are doing is to get Thaksin’s 46 billion back and bring him back to Thailand as a dictator.
You all should be ashamed of yourself in not trying to be honest with yourselves and try to address the issue of the rich and poor gap and try to educate the rural population of what democracy really is instead of rallying for the person who considers himself created democracy and owns it. Yeah, I am talking about Thaksin. He was just a dictator when he was in power. If you have have the brain, you could have figured it out yourself.
God, have you all forgotten what Thaksin did to the judiciary and the media and all those other government institutions when he was in power????
And I am especially disappointed with Thais who have contributed on this, who considers the red movement will solve all the problems in Thailand. Well, it has to do with arrogance of Thais and non-Thais alike, just like Thaksin considers himself as the last savior of Thailand.
You people are so much more educated than the regular Thais, why don’t you consult your lawyers or suggest Thaksin to do something legally either at ICJ or ICC. Many of you believe that the Thai courts are biased and stand with the elite. Well, you do have an alternative. Go international and shame this current government and see how the international bodies will respond to your requests.
Published: April 10 2010 14:16 | Last updated: April 10 2010 16:57
Eight people were killed and more than 500 people were injured in the Thai capital Bangkok on Saturday when security forces and anti-government demonstrators fought running street battles after troops tried to end more than a month of protests.
More than six hours of clashes in the heart of old Bangkok came to an end long after dark when the head of the army called off the assault, dealing a further blow to the authority of Abhisit Vejjajiva, the increasingly beleaguered prime minister.
Troops used live rounds, tear gas and baton charges in their unsuccessful attempt to shift the red-shirted demonstrators from the streets surrounding Phan Fah Bridge. The protesters responded with a hail of petrol bombs, rocks, water bottles, and – according to the security forces – gunshots.
Malinee Sukavrejworakit, the deputy governor of Bangkok, said that four soldiers and four protesters had died in the clashes. There were also unconfirmed reports that a Japanese television cameraman had died.
Late on Saturday night, the army said it was pulling back to avoid more bloodshed.
“If this continues, if the army responds to the red shirts, violence will expand,” Mr Sansern said.
The protesters have been demonstrating for a month in support of their demand for the resignation of Mr Abhisit, who came to power in a controversial parliamentary vote 16 months ago. The prime minister had offered to resign in nine months, but the protesters had insisted on a deadline of 15 days.
On Saturday night, the emboldened leaders of the protests increased their demands.
“We are changing our demand from dissolving parliament in 15 days to dissolving parliament immediately,” Veera Musikapong, one of the leaders, told a cheering crowd on Saturday night. “And we call for Abhisit to leave the country immediately.”
The bloodshed and the failed attempt to clear Phan Fah – the smaller of two protest sites being occupied by the red shirts – will leave Mr Abhisit severely weakened.
Saturday’s move against the Phan Fah site came a day after security forces were humiliated by a crowd which forced them to give up a satellite uplink station they were guarding on the outskirts of the city, giving extra impetus to the demonstration.
There is a deep taboo in Thai political culture against government forces shedding the blood of protesters. The violence and death on Saturday evening will be read by many voters as further undermining his right to run the country.
Mr Abhisit came to power vowing to unite a country that has been deeply divided since Thaksin Shinwatra, the populist prime minister beloved of the country’s legions of impoverished rural farmers, was removed in a military coup in 2006.
But the divisions have grown. Mr Thaksin, who currently lives in exile to avoid a two-year sentence for corruption, has repeatedly called on his supporters to undermine the government, and many protesters blame Mr Abhisit for the country’s economic problems, which are largely the result of the global crisis.
The demonstrations started at the Phan Fah Bridge a month ago, but the stakes were raised at the beginning of last week, when the bulk of the protesters took over the key Rachaprasong intersection in the centre of the city, shutting down some of the country’s biggest shopping malls, disrupting trade for half a dozen five-star hotels and adding to Bangkok’s already severe traffic woes.
Groups of police in riot gear gathered around the fringes of the Ratchaprasong demonstration site on Saturday but did not attempt to advance against the crowds.
The news of the assault has mobilised red-shirt supporters in other parts of the country, with protesters breaking into a local government office in the town of Udon Thani, in the country’s northeast, and of crowds gathering in the northern city of Chiang Mai.
Prime Minister Abhisit on Thai TV does not apologize for ordering the extremely violent but totally failed crackdown Saturday afternoon in Bangkok.
He does not announce his resignation.
He does not agree to dissolve Parliament and hold new elections.
Instead he says his unelected government must not lose this battle and that the Redshirts insult all the “institutions” (Thai code for the Red Shirts are against the King)
——————————————————
For a Prime Minister who had just caused hundreds of people to be injured, some people killed and a massive loss and damage to property in Bangkok on an otherwise quiet Saturday afternoon and evening, he gave the appearance of being remarkably indifferent and intransigent……..
Prime Minister Abhisit on Thai TV apologizing for loss of life in Bangkok today……
——————————————————————-
…well, it’s “nice” to apologize for the loss of life but how about apologizing for his own and his government’s colossal mis-judgement in initiating such an extremely violent crackdown at 2PM Saturday afternoon against a more or less unarmed and relatively peaceful group of Thai citizens demonstrating in an otherwise relatively peaceful Bangkok?
…and how about offering to resign in disgrace, dissolve the Parliament and call for new elections which his party, the so-called “Democrat Party” will agree to respect and accept.
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Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
Zaw Tun and Welcom2Anarchy
Both of you need to get a life and stop talking about Thaksin.
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
Dear Zaw Tun,
I, for one, and listening seriously to your message, which is perhaps somewhat garbled by ANU moderator. Or maybe not 🙂 So glad, too, that New Mandala is not some Internet-age university of the air that is collecting tuition fees from the netizens. They might make lots of money.
“I am talking about Thaksin. He was just a dictator when he was in power. ”
Fortunately or unfortunately, my impression is that most New Mandala readers would agree. They might add a footnote of several pages-length, but they seem to agree.
“God, have you all forgotten what Thaksin did to the judiciary and the media and all those other government institutions when he was in power???? ”
No, alas. Nobody forgot.
Please contribute often to share your ideas.
Crackdown
I just got back from the Glang Hospital, the official body count is 11 for the protester’s side.
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
Zaw Tun: most reds don’t care about Thaksin, all this is not really about him anymore.
Crackdown
George#9 :
“a strange decision to start the crackdown in the middle of Bangkok on Saturday afternoon in full view of so many different people, many with digital cameras, mobile phone cameras, etc. It’s as if the government no longer cares what the rest of the world thinks…”
Or that Prem is now SO old he’s lost touch with the modern world.
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
Zaw Tun, please take your opinion elsewhere. I came here for news update, not your babble. If you don’t have the decency to post NEWs, then you should just go.
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
Zaw Tun #69 – with your pathetic prejudices, you’d never stand a chance of qualifying to enter ANU, ranked 16th top university in the world.
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
@ patiwat, i have been out of burma since i was 18 because i thoroughly despised the military. and i have been working in the burmese democratic movement since then. i have no qualms about not getting accepted into ANU because there are better schools that i can go to where my background and what i have done all my adult life would be appreciated.
i have unfanned myself from UDD Thailand and thus can’t reply what you have said. it is a democracy patiwat, i can have my own opinion in a civilized manner and we can all agree to disagree. if that is not how you perceive it, then it is too bad.
but the facts are out there about the sincerity of the red movement and who bankrolls the whole thing. you will of course disagree with me but i have seen enough and i know what it really is.
i have nothing more to say than “i feel terribly sorry that many intellectual thais got so hung up on the military and the elite and missing the whole point here”.
like i have said, i recognize the problems in thai society, and it has to be solved by the whole thai society. not buy thaksin or a bunch of people in red shirts.
don’t live in a nutshell patiwat.
Can Thailand’s new consensus hold?
Back to consensus – for two days in a row reds have been battling the state, pushing the security forces to their limits.
Now it’s not a question of whether the government is willing to use force, it’s a question of whether the government can enforce the laws with non-lethal methods if the insurgency continues.
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
BBC report on Saturday’s events in Bangkok:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8612783.stm
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
Bangkok Sunday Morning 12:1oAM April 11th:
Erawan Medical Center reports that on Saturday in Bangkok 678 people were injured and 11 people killed. two soldiers and nine civilians.
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
this is a pretty pathetic website. thank god i wasn’t admitted to ANU. you all claim to be experts of democracy and understand democracy and i am just speechless to read what many of you have written.
there are underlying problems in Thai society that needs to be addressed. But what the Reds are doing is to get Thaksin’s 46 billion back and bring him back to Thailand as a dictator.
You all should be ashamed of yourself in not trying to be honest with yourselves and try to address the issue of the rich and poor gap and try to educate the rural population of what democracy really is instead of rallying for the person who considers himself created democracy and owns it. Yeah, I am talking about Thaksin. He was just a dictator when he was in power. If you have have the brain, you could have figured it out yourself.
God, have you all forgotten what Thaksin did to the judiciary and the media and all those other government institutions when he was in power????
And I am especially disappointed with Thais who have contributed on this, who considers the red movement will solve all the problems in Thailand. Well, it has to do with arrogance of Thais and non-Thais alike, just like Thaksin considers himself as the last savior of Thailand.
You people are so much more educated than the regular Thais, why don’t you consult your lawyers or suggest Thaksin to do something legally either at ICJ or ICC. Many of you believe that the Thai courts are biased and stand with the elite. Well, you do have an alternative. Go international and shame this current government and see how the international bodies will respond to your requests.
Good luck everyone.
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
The UK Financial Times on Saturday’s events in Bangkok:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/fef69a0a-4495-11df-9615-00144feab49a.html
——————————————————————
Thai troops open fire on red-shirt protesters
By Tim Johnston in Bangkok
Published: April 10 2010 14:16 | Last updated: April 10 2010 16:57
Eight people were killed and more than 500 people were injured in the Thai capital Bangkok on Saturday when security forces and anti-government demonstrators fought running street battles after troops tried to end more than a month of protests.
More than six hours of clashes in the heart of old Bangkok came to an end long after dark when the head of the army called off the assault, dealing a further blow to the authority of Abhisit Vejjajiva, the increasingly beleaguered prime minister.
Troops used live rounds, tear gas and baton charges in their unsuccessful attempt to shift the red-shirted demonstrators from the streets surrounding Phan Fah Bridge. The protesters responded with a hail of petrol bombs, rocks, water bottles, and – according to the security forces – gunshots.
Malinee Sukavrejworakit, the deputy governor of Bangkok, said that four soldiers and four protesters had died in the clashes. There were also unconfirmed reports that a Japanese television cameraman had died.
Late on Saturday night, the army said it was pulling back to avoid more bloodshed.
“If this continues, if the army responds to the red shirts, violence will expand,” Mr Sansern said.
The protesters have been demonstrating for a month in support of their demand for the resignation of Mr Abhisit, who came to power in a controversial parliamentary vote 16 months ago. The prime minister had offered to resign in nine months, but the protesters had insisted on a deadline of 15 days.
On Saturday night, the emboldened leaders of the protests increased their demands.
“We are changing our demand from dissolving parliament in 15 days to dissolving parliament immediately,” Veera Musikapong, one of the leaders, told a cheering crowd on Saturday night. “And we call for Abhisit to leave the country immediately.”
The bloodshed and the failed attempt to clear Phan Fah – the smaller of two protest sites being occupied by the red shirts – will leave Mr Abhisit severely weakened.
Saturday’s move against the Phan Fah site came a day after security forces were humiliated by a crowd which forced them to give up a satellite uplink station they were guarding on the outskirts of the city, giving extra impetus to the demonstration.
There is a deep taboo in Thai political culture against government forces shedding the blood of protesters. The violence and death on Saturday evening will be read by many voters as further undermining his right to run the country.
Mr Abhisit came to power vowing to unite a country that has been deeply divided since Thaksin Shinwatra, the populist prime minister beloved of the country’s legions of impoverished rural farmers, was removed in a military coup in 2006.
But the divisions have grown. Mr Thaksin, who currently lives in exile to avoid a two-year sentence for corruption, has repeatedly called on his supporters to undermine the government, and many protesters blame Mr Abhisit for the country’s economic problems, which are largely the result of the global crisis.
The demonstrations started at the Phan Fah Bridge a month ago, but the stakes were raised at the beginning of last week, when the bulk of the protesters took over the key Rachaprasong intersection in the centre of the city, shutting down some of the country’s biggest shopping malls, disrupting trade for half a dozen five-star hotels and adding to Bangkok’s already severe traffic woes.
Groups of police in riot gear gathered around the fringes of the Ratchaprasong demonstration site on Saturday but did not attempt to advance against the crowds.
The news of the assault has mobilised red-shirt supporters in other parts of the country, with protesters breaking into a local government office in the town of Udon Thani, in the country’s northeast, and of crowds gathering in the northern city of Chiang Mai.
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
TIME Magazine on Saturday’s events in Bangkok:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1981059,00.html?xid=rss-topstories
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
Singapore Straits Times on Saturday’s events in Bangkok:
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/SEAsia/Story/STIStory_513038.html
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
New York Times on Saturday’s events in Bangkok:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/asia/11thai.html
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
UK Times article on Saturday’s events in Bangkok:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article7094179.ece
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
11:30PM Bangkok Saturday Night April 10th:
Prime Minister Abhisit on Thai TV does not apologize for ordering the extremely violent but totally failed crackdown Saturday afternoon in Bangkok.
He does not announce his resignation.
He does not agree to dissolve Parliament and hold new elections.
Instead he says his unelected government must not lose this battle and that the Redshirts insult all the “institutions” (Thai code for the Red Shirts are against the King)
——————————————————
For a Prime Minister who had just caused hundreds of people to be injured, some people killed and a massive loss and damage to property in Bangkok on an otherwise quiet Saturday afternoon and evening, he gave the appearance of being remarkably indifferent and intransigent……..
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
11:30PM Bangkok Saturday Night April 10th:
Government sponsored TV Station TBS now TBS TV reporting 11 deaths in Bangkok street battles today.
Crackdown in Bangkok – after 8 PM
11:20PM Bangkok Saturday Night April 10th:
Prime Minister Abhisit on Thai TV apologizing for loss of life in Bangkok today……
——————————————————————-
…well, it’s “nice” to apologize for the loss of life but how about apologizing for his own and his government’s colossal mis-judgement in initiating such an extremely violent crackdown at 2PM Saturday afternoon against a more or less unarmed and relatively peaceful group of Thai citizens demonstrating in an otherwise relatively peaceful Bangkok?
…and how about offering to resign in disgrace, dissolve the Parliament and call for new elections which his party, the so-called “Democrat Party” will agree to respect and accept.