Sorry to say, I think your assessment of a “national consensus that violent repression of protest action is unacceptable” is based on a simple misreading of the 42 months since the last coup in 2006 destroyed that other national concensus – that there would be no more coups.
The concept that it’s wrong to violently suppress mass protests was re-invented by the Amart in the mid-2000’s to help facilitate the overthrow of Thaksin’s elected government by the PAD mob, beofoe and after the coup of 2006. With that mission now accomplished, the folks who put Abhisit in the premier’s chair are frantically seeking the right reason to chuck the whole concept and crack a few skulls.
May I suggest that the “right to suppress dissent ” is taken for granted in a society which still ascribes god-like qualities to its symbols and leaders and is ready and willing to imprison people for political blasphemy.
The only thing that has restrained these folks from violence thus far is the fear of failure. The army doesn’t want to get its hands bloody fighting to save the necks of politicians it sees as weak and vulnerable. Combine that with the generals’ genuine fear that they lack the forces to win a quick, if bloody, crackdown on an army of protesters, and you get the kind of inaction you see now.
If there’s any concensus in Thai politics today, it’s the time-honored military doctrine that you only use force when you’re sure you can win quickly and decisively.
” . . . this is not about negotiation or house dissolution, at least for some elements in the red, its about the political and class revolution.” This is what you said, this is what NM incessantly repeats and this is what foreigners dutifully dramatize.
Am I to believe that ‘class revolution’ is about what MCSING and BangkokPundit repeatedly lament . . . the perceived Bangkok people condescension towards the Isarn folks . .. the buffallo-slur? You and BangkokPundit could not be serious! Educate me Tarrin what you mean by class revolution . . . what those Red revolutionaries hope to achieve?
My perception is that upward mobility absolutely has free rein all over Thailand : any buffalo, so to speak, could rise above his ignorance by dint of hard work and lots of determination. There are NO elites who knowingly or maliciously keep any Thai in perpetual bondage, deprivation and ignorance.
A political revolution you also mentioned Tarrin. What animal is that? PM Abhisit invited the Reds leadership to work with him, and other interested groups, to come out with that so-called road map that would take into consideration any political grievances of any political group . . . to arrive at some compromise. But was rejected . . . because I suspect, the Reds movement have no other political objective beyond a quick house dissolution then a new election, to get back at the yellow shirts before them . . . or, more malevolently, to restore the luster of their paymaster Thaksin Shinawatra, and, pardon my redudancy . . damn whever happens next!
A class revolution is a stupid banner in today’s internet-everybody-is-connected age. Stupid and bloody dangerous . . .
Prachatai English is blocked. Why? Last night I looked at it, late; nothing offensive (pretty much the same sort of stuff as NM.)
JFL @25: “The prachatai server was first blocked… now it seems to have been cracked… it’s putting up the “It works!” page that new apache installation shows.” Do you mean it’s possible to access? I’ve just tried & there’s a message saying, “Sorry for any inconvenience.
The page you are trying to visit has been blocked by the Ministry of Information and Communication Technology.
For more information, please contact Ministry of Information and Communication Technology
Building 9, TOT Public Limited Company, Chaengwattana Road, Laksi, Bangkok 10210
Tel. 0-2505-7147, 0-2568-2498”
Well said Jim Taylor# – and I now hang my head in shame for supporting the 2006 coup (because I thought Thaksin was becoming too powerful).
What has followed since – especially Abhisit’s born-to-rule
“no-election”, within any reasonable time-frame, utterly disgusts me. Ditto his stance on peace talks via Chavalit, Anand, LeekPai.
All the human societies of the world can be divided into just two types.
The advance ones which accept the following concepts that :
1) every human being, whether rich or poor, is equal,
2) the principle of one man one vote is a noble idea, and
3) the majority rule, however thin that majority, is the only political solution.
The primitive ones which obviously reject all three concepts and the ruling minority uses the violent repression to govern the majority .
Thailand now belongs to the latter class and the violence is the only mean to rule that society, as in Burma and China.
this is not a game: push people to the limit and this is the consequence. There is no legitimacy in the current regime and trying to substantiate a reasoned argument along these lines is fallacious…futile and proven time and again to have failed. Abhisit is too thick to do anything but hold on to power that was taken from the people’s elected government. How can you talk about the rule on “non-violence” AW when more than five years on suffering, oppression and silence has been imposed on any oppositional voices to the present neo-fascist Thai political and social order; any resemblance to democracy in the current status quo is simply a mirage or fascade of Thaksin’s political reforms that were left behind/
…the MRC doesn’t seem to be pressing China to provide information regarding that project.
You’re not kidding. They seem to be in league with the Chinese in suppressing real information about the Xiaowan dam.
Why don’t the downstream nations have permanent, resident observers at all the Chinese dams, MRC or no MRC?
They’re all more scared of and thus more solicitous of the comfort of the Chinese than they are of their own citizens. That’s why.
None of the governments involved really gives a damn about its citizens, at least not about the “class” of citizens dependent on the Lancang/Mekong, and that includes the Chinese government.
I think the 1Malaysia slogan is great, precisely for the way it is forcing these uncomfortable discussions. It’s amazing that Najib was so woefully unprepared for this slogan to boomerang right back to him and his party.
Unfortunately there seems to be no credible leader able to take up the 1Malaysia slogan and defend it.
“Thailand at this juncture is in the transitional period towards more matured democracy.”
More matured democracy ?
Eg closing down media ?
Eg. closing down peace talks – eg. Anand, Chuan LeekPai, Chavalit ?
Eg. closing down elections – that’s surely the next maturation.
Your real world ? sure ? need a counseling hah I guess…
Reason with me why some of you like bothering other countries
Interrupting someone else’s culture
How come you have soooo much time spending on this…
don’t you have something else to do?
Playing piano, learn B-Boy, Practicing “Nobody” song…etc.
I have yet to meet a Thai military or police senior officer who was in any way at all worried about anything on his conscience. It is a hard judgment, but based on experience. Anupong is more likely preoccupied with affairs that we know little about. And he likes it like that.
Andrew, everyone said the Thai military would never stage another coup, but in 2006 that is exactly what happened. So why do you think suppression of dissent will never take place? Now that the Redshirt TV station has been blocked, do you think they will not protest this when the Yellowshirt station is still operating? General Anupong will not use force, he retires in 6 months time and does not want violence and bloodshed on his conscience. I think the protests will continue until Abphisit announces a general election, but he will find it hard to do that because Peauthai (Thai Rak Thai Mark III) will win a majority. Democrats can only stay in power if they continue ot ally with Chidchob group.
StanG#27 :
“Some twenty red guards enter the parliament, search for Deputy Prime Minister and disarm a guard in the process.
There’s no excuse for that.”
I agree – unless this was a set-up : which is what it looks like, do you not agree ?
The consensus is against you. Any lull in apparent violence against free speech is only because the violence has been transformed into legislated intimidation and repression. The oppression is now legal.
How come no one has bothered to look at the data on foreign investment? If the Economist is just sooooooooo accurate and right all the time; how could they miss the fact that forign investors have been the biggest buyers of the That Stock Market in years. Net buying to date is equal to US$1.5bn!
Vichai V – Whatever you said about grammar, I’m not writing an academic paper here.
Btw Vichai, like I said before, this is not about negotiation or house dissolution, at least for some elements in the red, its about the political and class revolution. Although the red leaders fail to even set the goal but mass are more than willing to move above their leaders, but this is remain to be seen.
“He has formidable legal powers at his disposal.” Are you joking? When has a Prime Minister in the last four years had any kind of real authority? Did the military do what Samak and his successor ask it to do? Is the military doing what Abisit would like it to do?
As long as the Crown is worshiped like a deity it will let the military be the final arbiter of all things political here.
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Can Thailand’s new consensus hold?
Sorry to say, I think your assessment of a “national consensus that violent repression of protest action is unacceptable” is based on a simple misreading of the 42 months since the last coup in 2006 destroyed that other national concensus – that there would be no more coups.
The concept that it’s wrong to violently suppress mass protests was re-invented by the Amart in the mid-2000’s to help facilitate the overthrow of Thaksin’s elected government by the PAD mob, beofoe and after the coup of 2006. With that mission now accomplished, the folks who put Abhisit in the premier’s chair are frantically seeking the right reason to chuck the whole concept and crack a few skulls.
May I suggest that the “right to suppress dissent ” is taken for granted in a society which still ascribes god-like qualities to its symbols and leaders and is ready and willing to imprison people for political blasphemy.
The only thing that has restrained these folks from violence thus far is the fear of failure. The army doesn’t want to get its hands bloody fighting to save the necks of politicians it sees as weak and vulnerable. Combine that with the generals’ genuine fear that they lack the forces to win a quick, if bloody, crackdown on an army of protesters, and you get the kind of inaction you see now.
If there’s any concensus in Thai politics today, it’s the time-honored military doctrine that you only use force when you’re sure you can win quickly and decisively.
Anti-pro-democracy
Tarrin,
” . . . this is not about negotiation or house dissolution, at least for some elements in the red, its about the political and class revolution.” This is what you said, this is what NM incessantly repeats and this is what foreigners dutifully dramatize.
Am I to believe that ‘class revolution’ is about what MCSING and BangkokPundit repeatedly lament . . . the perceived Bangkok people condescension towards the Isarn folks . .. the buffallo-slur? You and BangkokPundit could not be serious! Educate me Tarrin what you mean by class revolution . . . what those Red revolutionaries hope to achieve?
My perception is that upward mobility absolutely has free rein all over Thailand : any buffalo, so to speak, could rise above his ignorance by dint of hard work and lots of determination. There are NO elites who knowingly or maliciously keep any Thai in perpetual bondage, deprivation and ignorance.
A political revolution you also mentioned Tarrin. What animal is that? PM Abhisit invited the Reds leadership to work with him, and other interested groups, to come out with that so-called road map that would take into consideration any political grievances of any political group . . . to arrive at some compromise. But was rejected . . . because I suspect, the Reds movement have no other political objective beyond a quick house dissolution then a new election, to get back at the yellow shirts before them . . . or, more malevolently, to restore the luster of their paymaster Thaksin Shinawatra, and, pardon my redudancy . . damn whever happens next!
A class revolution is a stupid banner in today’s internet-everybody-is-connected age. Stupid and bloody dangerous . . .
State of Emergency in Bangkok
Prachatai English is blocked. Why? Last night I looked at it, late; nothing offensive (pretty much the same sort of stuff as NM.)
JFL @25: “The prachatai server was first blocked… now it seems to have been cracked… it’s putting up the “It works!” page that new apache installation shows.” Do you mean it’s possible to access? I’ve just tried & there’s a message saying, “Sorry for any inconvenience.
The page you are trying to visit has been blocked by the Ministry of Information and Communication Technology.
For more information, please contact Ministry of Information and Communication Technology
Building 9, TOT Public Limited Company, Chaengwattana Road, Laksi, Bangkok 10210
Tel. 0-2505-7147, 0-2568-2498”
Can Thailand’s new consensus hold?
Well said Jim Taylor# – and I now hang my head in shame for supporting the 2006 coup (because I thought Thaksin was becoming too powerful).
What has followed since – especially Abhisit’s born-to-rule
“no-election”, within any reasonable time-frame, utterly disgusts me. Ditto his stance on peace talks via Chavalit, Anand, LeekPai.
Can Thailand’s new consensus hold?
All the human societies of the world can be divided into just two types.
The advance ones which accept the following concepts that :
1) every human being, whether rich or poor, is equal,
2) the principle of one man one vote is a noble idea, and
3) the majority rule, however thin that majority, is the only political solution.
The primitive ones which obviously reject all three concepts and the ruling minority uses the violent repression to govern the majority .
Thailand now belongs to the latter class and the violence is the only mean to rule that society, as in Burma and China.
Correct information from CAPO
Since CAPO rebroadcasts news from Manager, I’ve flagged it to Google Management using the “This site promotes violence or is hateful”-clause.
Can Thailand’s new consensus hold?
this is not a game: push people to the limit and this is the consequence. There is no legitimacy in the current regime and trying to substantiate a reasoned argument along these lines is fallacious…futile and proven time and again to have failed. Abhisit is too thick to do anything but hold on to power that was taken from the people’s elected government. How can you talk about the rule on “non-violence” AW when more than five years on suffering, oppression and silence has been imposed on any oppositional voices to the present neo-fascist Thai political and social order; any resemblance to democracy in the current status quo is simply a mirage or fascade of Thaksin’s political reforms that were left behind/
Xiaowan filling and the Mekong
…the MRC doesn’t seem to be pressing China to provide information regarding that project.
You’re not kidding. They seem to be in league with the Chinese in suppressing real information about the Xiaowan dam.
Why don’t the downstream nations have permanent, resident observers at all the Chinese dams, MRC or no MRC?
They’re all more scared of and thus more solicitous of the comfort of the Chinese than they are of their own citizens. That’s why.
None of the governments involved really gives a damn about its citizens, at least not about the “class” of citizens dependent on the Lancang/Mekong, and that includes the Chinese government.
Najib’s first year in office, Part I
I think the 1Malaysia slogan is great, precisely for the way it is forcing these uncomfortable discussions. It’s amazing that Najib was so woefully unprepared for this slogan to boomerang right back to him and his party.
Unfortunately there seems to be no credible leader able to take up the 1Malaysia slogan and defend it.
Imagining a new mandala in mainland Southeast Asia
Ok Folks…leave this to you all…This is my final present here
Be as good as you can be…live happily ever after
Love you all…love the king…love Thailand
Love this cute world
Chao! Sawasdee, Sosdai, Sabaidee, Howdy and other languages
Gotta go…life is short…keep smiling you guys…
Nite Nite!
Correct information from CAPO
“Thailand at this juncture is in the transitional period towards more matured democracy.”
More matured democracy ?
Eg closing down media ?
Eg. closing down peace talks – eg. Anand, Chuan LeekPai, Chavalit ?
Eg. closing down elections – that’s surely the next maturation.
Imagining a new mandala in mainland Southeast Asia
Your real world ? sure ? need a counseling hah I guess…
Reason with me why some of you like bothering other countries
Interrupting someone else’s culture
How come you have soooo much time spending on this…
don’t you have something else to do?
Playing piano, learn B-Boy, Practicing “Nobody” song…etc.
Your world will not be gray…
By the way…have you ever listen to our King’s compose ?
Fantastic and melodic pieces na…here we go
http://kanchanapisek.or.th/royal-music/index.en.html
His majesty is very talented artist both in music compose and painting …
Love all the songs…Thai kids like to play and sing these songs
Can Thailand’s new consensus hold?
I have yet to meet a Thai military or police senior officer who was in any way at all worried about anything on his conscience. It is a hard judgment, but based on experience. Anupong is more likely preoccupied with affairs that we know little about. And he likes it like that.
Can Thailand’s new consensus hold?
Andrew, everyone said the Thai military would never stage another coup, but in 2006 that is exactly what happened. So why do you think suppression of dissent will never take place? Now that the Redshirt TV station has been blocked, do you think they will not protest this when the Yellowshirt station is still operating? General Anupong will not use force, he retires in 6 months time and does not want violence and bloodshed on his conscience. I think the protests will continue until Abphisit announces a general election, but he will find it hard to do that because Peauthai (Thai Rak Thai Mark III) will win a majority. Democrats can only stay in power if they continue ot ally with Chidchob group.
Anti-pro-democracy
Khun Vichai,
-perhaps you are a double agent & being paid by Taksin as your posts are giving yellow a bad name
-if not then is it possible to give some of your payments to red family members so as they don’t disgrace themselves and you will not be embarrassed
P.S. please check grammar
State of Emergency in Bangkok
StanG#27 :
“Some twenty red guards enter the parliament, search for Deputy Prime Minister and disarm a guard in the process.
There’s no excuse for that.”
I agree – unless this was a set-up : which is what it looks like, do you not agree ?
Can Thailand’s new consensus hold?
The consensus is against you. Any lull in apparent violence against free speech is only because the violence has been transformed into legislated intimidation and repression. The oppression is now legal.
The Economist takes on lese majeste
How come no one has bothered to look at the data on foreign investment? If the Economist is just sooooooooo accurate and right all the time; how could they miss the fact that forign investors have been the biggest buyers of the That Stock Market in years. Net buying to date is equal to US$1.5bn!
http://marketdata.set.or.th/mkt/investortype.do?language=en&country=US
Anti-pro-democracy
Vichai V – Whatever you said about grammar, I’m not writing an academic paper here.
Btw Vichai, like I said before, this is not about negotiation or house dissolution, at least for some elements in the red, its about the political and class revolution. Although the red leaders fail to even set the goal but mass are more than willing to move above their leaders, but this is remain to be seen.
Can Thailand’s new consensus hold?
Andrew,
“He has formidable legal powers at his disposal.” Are you joking? When has a Prime Minister in the last four years had any kind of real authority? Did the military do what Samak and his successor ask it to do? Is the military doing what Abisit would like it to do?
As long as the Crown is worshiped like a deity it will let the military be the final arbiter of all things political here.
M