I am not sure whether this “non-violent” approach is due to any “new consensus” or to the context and form of the protests (applies both to the PAD and the UDD).
Khunpenkrai.
You make the mistake of assuming, on some of the evidence of this forum, that most farangs are willing to tolerate Thaksin. Beyond the fantasy world of the political pundits on this site (who glibly talk about the terror phase, but who will undoubtedly scuttle off home as soon as it starts), I can barely find an expat here who has anything good to say about Thaksin. While recognising him as a person who has successfully found HIS ‘public’, they pretty much all say that they find his constant and cynical manipulation totally repugnant.
Personally, I despise the man. People call him ‘strong man’, but to me I see nothing more than a weak-willed spoilt brat. In my book, compromise is strength, and conflict is weakness.
I am also none too impressed by the red shirt leadership. They too glibly talk about revolution through some ridiculous notion that it is somehow a manly pursuit. Theirs is a world in which it is OK to fool, victimise, bully and maim the entirely innocent as a means to assume power. By tying themselves to a man of obvious criminality they have completely debased themselves and sold their cause down the river. And having spent so long scheming up novel party tricks to fool the public, they are almost entirely bereft of any real policy – except that handed down to them as a commandment from the ex- PM mafia honcho.
None of these combatants will ever get my support. There is no compromise in them. There is no policy. There is no humanity. There is no common sense. Thailand has been wracked by criminal mafia power-hungry political factions ever since 1932. The current combatants are just more of the same posturing macho nonsense.
Editor note (NSF): We prefer commentators to use the one identity whenever possible. Please consider this an opportunity to decide on one (relatively) consistent moniker. You do, of course, have a few to choose from…
That is a helpful update. It does, indeed, appear that Prachatai took a hit since I checked it last night. Notifications of other websites that end up off-line will be helpful too. The Emergency decree empowers the full gamut of prospective censorship measures; I guess we might see other sites, and news organisations, receiving extra attention too.
Don – it was Arisaman group, I think he doesn’t have any particular ideology that align to either the Communist or the Republic but rather just a more uncontrollable element within the Red.
a) From my understanding is that Abhisit wants 9 months (non-negotiable) and the Red wants 15 days (also non-negotiable) so you are blaming all the dead lock on the Red??? btw, I dont think house dissolution is the solution to the 100 years old problem, not the talk, not the education.
b) There’s not a single evidence that link the grenade attack to the Red, moreover, the grenade attack didn’t serve the Red any benefit since its more of a treat rather than the actual killing, the government has more than enough incentive to stage the attack themselves, so they go on a TV and said “due to this bomb attack, it is indicated that the protest is not peaceful blah blah……… we need to use a strong measure against the protester blah blah…….”
Cool-headed Thais have never ever committed violence just for the sake of violence unlike their cousins, hot-headed Burmese.
Historically the violent incidents in Thailand, whether countless number of individual assassinations or a few armed repressions by the military, in Thailand are always influenced by the commercial interests.
Current stalemate of non-violence confrontation will last as long as one side, most probably the military-backed royalists, still feels that their long term commercial interest are not seriously threatened.
But once the red shirts or Thaksin starts calling for the abolition of monarchy in Thailand the river of blood will flow on the Bangkok streets.
New Mandala is actually a fine example of how the academic community usually gets it wrong. You still haven’t figured that the reformist cause has been hi-jacked by the competing factions of the sucession. Thus, you are still stuck with the the entirely daft notion that a mafia-led and funded faction is going to usher in an new age of reform. If you go by past Thai history, all the evidence is that it will do nothing more than usher in yet another repressive govenment that has no real policy other than to plunder the country for personal gain. Thailand has been down this road dozens of times before, and each time it did nothing more than widen the income and social justice gap.
This is interesting, but there is one fundamental assumption associated with this research that needs to be questioned — the assumption that power has not influenced the responses of those interviewed. This issue is not discussed in the blogs, but I think it is very important when it comes to research regarding projects such as NT2. Would villagers dare tell someone working for the World Bank that things are going poorly? Sure, I imagine that some might do that indirectly, and a few might even be direct, but most would probably not dare to voice their full concerns. The villagers know what they are expected to say. It would be more interesting to learn about what is happening, and what people have to say, without having the information filtered through the World Bank.
In response to Vichai – as you seem to misunderstand basic English my point was that the many people I have met in the North and North-East are not stupid – far from it. But they believe many in Bangkok believe them to be – which I can also confirm based on my experience. Khun Vinchai’s post simply re-inforces the view held my many people (including many Thai professors that I know) that the low-education smear is used to justify marginalizing the majority of Thais for their obviously self-seeking, nasty, ends.
Sounds like a fascinating study — and very timely. Just the kind of topic that many of our readers will want to learn more about. Good luck with your time in Singapore.
Again I find myself wanting further clarification about “which red shirts” [pro-taksin, republican or communist] took over parlaiment. Who exerted leadership on this move?
Enrico,
You should stick to writing comedy for the Bangkok nobility and bourgeoisie, those meritorious elite who safeguard this KINGdom’s illustrious democratic institutions from the mongrels from the countryside. Is it any surprise that there is now this agrarian insurrection against this ancien regime of yours? History repeats itself and Thailand is due for its own Reign of Terror and hopefully your head will be the first one on the chopping block.
What moral authority did these yellow shirts ever have? Shutting down the airport? Kangaroo courts to rubber stamp their interests? There was never due process in removing Thaksin or those following behind him. Getting rid of Samak because of a cooking show? Gimme a break. Thaksin corrupt? And the Bangkok elite are not corrupt? Or the military? Or the monarchy? Ooopps! Can’t criticize the King! With his hard earned $38 billion of the PEOPLE’S money and still people donate to him?
This is feudalism plain and simple and the monarchy needs to first be put in its place and then the nobility. What I love about all of this is that now the poor have THEIR corrupt leader to speak for them.
Actually Enrico, please keep posting because people like you will only help the cause of these “unwashed” from the countryside.
I will look for you on the battlefield.
Vichai N@11 – I would n’t get too excited about Thailand’s stock market being up, for three reasons :
1) stock markets all over East Asia are being driven up as Asian investors, especially Chinese and Japanese, try to reduce their entanglement with American debt.
2) this may well be leading to a speculative bubble in Asian stocks.
3) this bubble may easily burst due to political difficulties in Thailand, Malaysia, and even China.
and on top of all this is the fact :
we do not yet know whether the global economy is going to slip back into a double-dip recession.
You’re a fool if you’re popping your pink-bubble champaign over the Red Shirts being defeated just yet.
Enricho@13 – I enjoy your sarcastic humour, but you should n’t pillory Shawn Crispin.
Sure he’s writing for a Sondhi Lim, but reading Shawn’s article it’s obvious he’s insisted on journalistic independence in his contract. It’s a good, well balanced analysis.
The state of emergency is probably the best way to scare most tourists off Thailand. The only way this government should do is to dissolve the parliament. Don’t forget that the ongoing government has all the advantage in the new election. The reason that this government dare not dissolve the parliament is because they know fully well that the whole country dislike them and most people will not elect them back into the parliament. Apisit has no chance to come back as a PM any longer. Apisit knows that his party will not be able to win more than 50 seats in a new election. But the slower he dissolves the parliament, the fewer mp he will win. Apisit is not the people choice, he only serves those elites who care only for themselves.
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State of Emergency in Bangkok
Some twenty red guards enter the parliament, search for Deputy Prime Minister and disarm a guard in the process.
There’s no excuse for that.
Can Thailand’s new consensus hold?
I am not sure whether this “non-violent” approach is due to any “new consensus” or to the context and form of the protests (applies both to the PAD and the UDD).
Imagining a new mandala in mainland Southeast Asia
Khunpenkrai.
You make the mistake of assuming, on some of the evidence of this forum, that most farangs are willing to tolerate Thaksin. Beyond the fantasy world of the political pundits on this site (who glibly talk about the terror phase, but who will undoubtedly scuttle off home as soon as it starts), I can barely find an expat here who has anything good to say about Thaksin. While recognising him as a person who has successfully found HIS ‘public’, they pretty much all say that they find his constant and cynical manipulation totally repugnant.
Personally, I despise the man. People call him ‘strong man’, but to me I see nothing more than a weak-willed spoilt brat. In my book, compromise is strength, and conflict is weakness.
I am also none too impressed by the red shirt leadership. They too glibly talk about revolution through some ridiculous notion that it is somehow a manly pursuit. Theirs is a world in which it is OK to fool, victimise, bully and maim the entirely innocent as a means to assume power. By tying themselves to a man of obvious criminality they have completely debased themselves and sold their cause down the river. And having spent so long scheming up novel party tricks to fool the public, they are almost entirely bereft of any real policy – except that handed down to them as a commandment from the ex- PM mafia honcho.
None of these combatants will ever get my support. There is no compromise in them. There is no policy. There is no humanity. There is no common sense. Thailand has been wracked by criminal mafia power-hungry political factions ever since 1932. The current combatants are just more of the same posturing macho nonsense.
Editor note (NSF): We prefer commentators to use the one identity whenever possible. Please consider this an opportunity to decide on one (relatively) consistent moniker. You do, of course, have a few to choose from…
Anti-pro-democracy
I apologize for my poor English MCSING . . . how very buffalo-stupid of me.
Can Thailand’s new consensus hold?
You are probably wrong Andrew Walker . . . again.
State of Emergency in Bangkok
Thanks JFL,
That is a helpful update. It does, indeed, appear that Prachatai took a hit since I checked it last night. Notifications of other websites that end up off-line will be helpful too. The Emergency decree empowers the full gamut of prospective censorship measures; I guess we might see other sites, and news organisations, receiving extra attention too.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
State of Emergency in Bangkok
The prachatai server was first blocked… now it seems to have been cracked… it’s putting up the “It works!” page that new apache installation shows.
The internet channel with news from Bangkok has been shutdown.
This is what it is like living under a Totalitarian Regime.
I remember my shock and horror at the 19 September 2006 coup… you mean a bunch of thugs just took over the government?!
My Thai friends were wearily resigned.
Now it’s happened again.
An endless cycle of rebirths with zero knowledge retained from past existences… that’s the pretense anyhow.
I’ll never be resigned.
I hate this government. It is pure evil.
State of Emergency in Bangkok
Don – it was Arisaman group, I think he doesn’t have any particular ideology that align to either the Communist or the Republic but rather just a more uncontrollable element within the Red.
Anti-pro-democracy
Vichai N – Sorry for late response,
a) From my understanding is that Abhisit wants 9 months (non-negotiable) and the Red wants 15 days (also non-negotiable) so you are blaming all the dead lock on the Red??? btw, I dont think house dissolution is the solution to the 100 years old problem, not the talk, not the education.
b) There’s not a single evidence that link the grenade attack to the Red, moreover, the grenade attack didn’t serve the Red any benefit since its more of a treat rather than the actual killing, the government has more than enough incentive to stage the attack themselves, so they go on a TV and said “due to this bomb attack, it is indicated that the protest is not peaceful blah blah……… we need to use a strong measure against the protester blah blah…….”
Can Thailand’s new consensus hold?
Cool-headed Thais have never ever committed violence just for the sake of violence unlike their cousins, hot-headed Burmese.
Historically the violent incidents in Thailand, whether countless number of individual assassinations or a few armed repressions by the military, in Thailand are always influenced by the commercial interests.
Current stalemate of non-violence confrontation will last as long as one side, most probably the military-backed royalists, still feels that their long term commercial interest are not seriously threatened.
But once the red shirts or Thaksin starts calling for the abolition of monarchy in Thailand the river of blood will flow on the Bangkok streets.
State of Emergency in Bangkok
New Mandala is actually a fine example of how the academic community usually gets it wrong. You still haven’t figured that the reformist cause has been hi-jacked by the competing factions of the sucession. Thus, you are still stuck with the the entirely daft notion that a mafia-led and funded faction is going to usher in an new age of reform. If you go by past Thai history, all the evidence is that it will do nothing more than usher in yet another repressive govenment that has no real policy other than to plunder the country for personal gain. Thailand has been down this road dozens of times before, and each time it did nothing more than widen the income and social justice gap.
How are the Nam Theun 2 resettlees going?
This is interesting, but there is one fundamental assumption associated with this research that needs to be questioned — the assumption that power has not influenced the responses of those interviewed. This issue is not discussed in the blogs, but I think it is very important when it comes to research regarding projects such as NT2. Would villagers dare tell someone working for the World Bank that things are going poorly? Sure, I imagine that some might do that indirectly, and a few might even be direct, but most would probably not dare to voice their full concerns. The villagers know what they are expected to say. It would be more interesting to learn about what is happening, and what people have to say, without having the information filtered through the World Bank.
Anti-pro-democracy
In response to Vichai – as you seem to misunderstand basic English my point was that the many people I have met in the North and North-East are not stupid – far from it. But they believe many in Bangkok believe them to be – which I can also confirm based on my experience. Khun Vinchai’s post simply re-inforces the view held my many people (including many Thai professors that I know) that the low-education smear is used to justify marginalizing the majority of Thais for their obviously self-seeking, nasty, ends.
On mobility and inequality in Thailand and elsewhere
Yes, thanks Maureen,
Sounds like a fascinating study — and very timely. Just the kind of topic that many of our readers will want to learn more about. Good luck with your time in Singapore.
Best wishes,
Nich
State of Emergency in Bangkok
Again I find myself wanting further clarification about “which red shirts” [pro-taksin, republican or communist] took over parlaiment. Who exerted leadership on this move?
If you have information, please post.
State of Emergency in Bangkok
Enrico,
You should stick to writing comedy for the Bangkok nobility and bourgeoisie, those meritorious elite who safeguard this KINGdom’s illustrious democratic institutions from the mongrels from the countryside. Is it any surprise that there is now this agrarian insurrection against this ancien regime of yours? History repeats itself and Thailand is due for its own Reign of Terror and hopefully your head will be the first one on the chopping block.
What moral authority did these yellow shirts ever have? Shutting down the airport? Kangaroo courts to rubber stamp their interests? There was never due process in removing Thaksin or those following behind him. Getting rid of Samak because of a cooking show? Gimme a break. Thaksin corrupt? And the Bangkok elite are not corrupt? Or the military? Or the monarchy? Ooopps! Can’t criticize the King! With his hard earned $38 billion of the PEOPLE’S money and still people donate to him?
This is feudalism plain and simple and the monarchy needs to first be put in its place and then the nobility. What I love about all of this is that now the poor have THEIR corrupt leader to speak for them.
Actually Enrico, please keep posting because people like you will only help the cause of these “unwashed” from the countryside.
I will look for you on the battlefield.
M
State of Emergency in Bangkok
GeGee, if you believe whatever Sonthi Lim, the yellow shirt leader who now prefers to live overseas, says, enjoy your delusions too.
Profits to be made?
Vichai N@11 – I would n’t get too excited about Thailand’s stock market being up, for three reasons :
1) stock markets all over East Asia are being driven up as Asian investors, especially Chinese and Japanese, try to reduce their entanglement with American debt.
2) this may well be leading to a speculative bubble in Asian stocks.
3) this bubble may easily burst due to political difficulties in Thailand, Malaysia, and even China.
and on top of all this is the fact :
we do not yet know whether the global economy is going to slip back into a double-dip recession.
You’re a fool if you’re popping your pink-bubble champaign over the Red Shirts being defeated just yet.
Anti-pro-democracy
Enricho@13 – I enjoy your sarcastic humour, but you should n’t pillory Shawn Crispin.
Sure he’s writing for a Sondhi Lim, but reading Shawn’s article it’s obvious he’s insisted on journalistic independence in his contract. It’s a good, well balanced analysis.
State of Emergency in Bangkok
The state of emergency is probably the best way to scare most tourists off Thailand. The only way this government should do is to dissolve the parliament. Don’t forget that the ongoing government has all the advantage in the new election. The reason that this government dare not dissolve the parliament is because they know fully well that the whole country dislike them and most people will not elect them back into the parliament. Apisit has no chance to come back as a PM any longer. Apisit knows that his party will not be able to win more than 50 seats in a new election. But the slower he dissolves the parliament, the fewer mp he will win. Apisit is not the people choice, he only serves those elites who care only for themselves.