To Stan G (#22) — In so many ways, LM is an important piece in the current political injustice in Thailand. It is the bedrock of political suppression preventing people cannot debate the root causes of conflict. It generates the climate of fear, preventing freedom to speak and argue openly with reasons. This leads to onesided or heavily biased information in the media and in public. It forbids people to disucss the succession crisis even though it is at the heart of the current crisis.
The LM law is not a magic solution that would solve the current conflict. It is a weapon that destroys Thai democracy.
The LM law is responsible for making the Orwellian Minitrue, Doublespeak, and so on, become reality in Thailand. Orwell’s Oceania is too “total”. Thailand’s LM law is subtler; it creates a repressive authoritarianism with smiles 🙂
Benny – they want revolution, many people there used to be the survival of 1976 massacre and still hold a bit grudge against the establishment, the reason why Thailand has flood and follow by drought the next month, the media self censor, the 30 minutes propaganda, or the whole reason to discredit the poor from voting because they are stupid are the result of the establishment doing and people there want to put a stop to it.
Steve – The heart of the micro-loan concept is that, 1 success for every 10 fail cases. If you can make 1 person become successful from the micro-loan that he can pay back all the debt (or increase asset for his community thereof) for 10 people then it is considered as successful scenario since we are dealing with a very small amount of money here not those in the billion handing out by the big banks so just one successful man for each community is more than enough to compensate the lost.
A hero, huh? Hearing about his actions reminded me of an old joke:
What’s the difference between a Porche and a porcupine? With a porcupine, the pricks are on the outside.
In my view, accusing the administrators of an academic blog of receiving money from a political figure in return for favourable political coverage on the blog is an extremely serious allegation.
Not only does it affect the reputation of the owners of the blog but it also demeans the reputation of the blog itself and those who contribute to it.
Vichai N has repeatedly made this accusation against Andrew Walker.
Unless Vichai N has clear evidence to support his accusation I call on the administrators to demand that he withdraws his accusation unequivocally or permanently ban him from this blog.
About the village loan scheme, I think it’s fair to say that it was/is a mixed story – how could it be otherwise? Not all village administrators handling the funds wisely, making them available to all borrowers on an equitable basis or always ensuring that every borrower be reasonably placed to repay the loan. But then, the same can be said of many other microloan schemes from the famous Grameen Bank original onwards. [cf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfinance#Other_criticisms]
Flawed? Certainly. Is that sufficient reason to trash it comprehensively as some do? Certainly not.
Probably just my pedantry as an English teacher at work, Fall (c13). One can read this, on a fairly strained grammatical level, as “join the anti-coup d’etat and consequently join the dark power”.
But at a practical non-pedantic level, it’s quite clear that it doesn’t mean this at all. And I also want to point out that when people take up second languages new forms of that language emerge despite the rearguard actions of pedants (sometimes like me).
And for Michael La Palme and Tarrin, yes, that is a very difficult sign to interpret but the question “Can hed fish rot?” I assume is related to the English saying that “The fish rots from the head”. Also “fraud sufficiont?” might be glossed as “sufficiency fraud”. “House hold?” I have my own ideas on this but I better stop there as my attempts to interpret this placard are leading me ineluctably in the direction of ThoughtCrime. In fact, maybe that’s why the author of the placard whose English is obviously not the best, chose to use English rather than Thai to present his ideas. This is something that Robuzo (comment 1), I think correctly, identified as a potential reason for English signs.
In the event of a hostile forensic analysis of the meaning of such a placard, the accused could always say (presumably in Thai), “I am not responsible for your interpretations. I am not very good at English. What I wanted to say was quite different. You have misinterpreted it.” Who could disprove that? English may function as a protective camouflage.
The graphic element of the sign also shows Abhisit as Hitler via the moustache but makes him either faceless or blind through the masking of the eyes. This could be also interpreted in a number of ways.
This all may be dismissed as just idle speculation but the sentencing of Da Torpedo clearly showed that the court selected between various possible interpretations in the same way as a literary or film critic might do with a character’s motivations and actions. Elizabeth Fitzgerald has pointed this out in her excellent recent New Mandala submission “The Evidence of Intention” . PPT lists some sources for the court’s judgement at http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/das-court-decision
And I’m still working on your other sentence, Fall. Any clues?
I also think that the comments by Sam, Robuzo and ‘Pong express some of the the thoughts I had when I was compiling this submission. So thanks to you for that re-assurance
Another interesting comparison or yellow and red rallies can be seen by reading the twits, or are they called tweets, by Tulsathit on the Nation’s homepage today. He says he walked past the reds’ protest on Saturday and expresses disgust at seeing children present, “unlike during the PAD protests”.
Well pardon me, but I distinctly remember seeing many children on TV coverage of the PAD rallies, including when they took over the airport.
Tantawut Taweewarodomkul or Noom, alias Red Eagle could be facing a big sentence. My wife, a yellow shirt, when accessing http://www.norporchorusa.com was in a state of apoplexy. Does anyone know any background to the agenda and authors of this site?
as I understand, several Thaksins initiatives, like the taxi cooperatives, were designed to cut the power of the mafias, illegal rich, out of peoples lives
the village loan funds are the most well-known example, where he gave 1M Baht to every village on the condition they setup a cooperative to manage loans at low interest rates, this enabled many farmers to extricate themselves from the loan sharks that had a stranglehold on credit in the villages
the 2 and 3Baht lottery was designed to undercut what is called the underground lottery run by the mafias
the loan funds were (and still are) quite successful because the local people had direct control for their own benefit
the lottery was and is not successful because it struck more directly at the rich (amart) wealth creation schemes and needed the bureaucracy to cooperate
OTOP is also a locally run cooperative scheme for building the ability of each region to realise its cultural and product advantages, this needs some further drive from the top to increase its sales and marketing in Thailand and for export
David L Morell and Chai-anan Samudavanija, in their book Political Conflict in Thailand: Reform, Reaction, Revolution, included Aj. Chai-anan’s translation:
There are those who use the name Thai
and their appearance is Thai
and they live on the land, from the land;but in their hearts they wouild destroy it.
Selling themselves, selling their nation,
Insulting and demeaning the Thai race,
they depend upon Thailand,
gain sustenance from it,
yet hate their countrymen.
They are a weight upon the face of the earth,
scum on the face of Thailand.
by Boonsong Hakritsuk, army officer at the army television station, 1975
Morell and Chai-anan state that the words “their appearance is Thai” was meant to differentiate them as “communists,” but I think it also was meant to remind people (or, inform them) of the role of Chinese communists in training dissidents in camps in northeastern Thailand and Laos at that time.
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The evidence of intention
To Stan G (#22) — In so many ways, LM is an important piece in the current political injustice in Thailand. It is the bedrock of political suppression preventing people cannot debate the root causes of conflict. It generates the climate of fear, preventing freedom to speak and argue openly with reasons. This leads to onesided or heavily biased information in the media and in public. It forbids people to disucss the succession crisis even though it is at the heart of the current crisis.
The LM law is not a magic solution that would solve the current conflict. It is a weapon that destroys Thai democracy.
The LM law is responsible for making the Orwellian Minitrue, Doublespeak, and so on, become reality in Thailand. Orwell’s Oceania is too “total”. Thailand’s LM law is subtler; it creates a repressive authoritarianism with smiles 🙂
Chiranuch behind bars
Benny – they want revolution, many people there used to be the survival of 1976 massacre and still hold a bit grudge against the establishment, the reason why Thailand has flood and follow by drought the next month, the media self censor, the 30 minutes propaganda, or the whole reason to discredit the poor from voting because they are stupid are the result of the establishment doing and people there want to put a stop to it.
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
Steve – The heart of the micro-loan concept is that, 1 success for every 10 fail cases. If you can make 1 person become successful from the micro-loan that he can pay back all the debt (or increase asset for his community thereof) for 10 people then it is considered as successful scenario since we are dealing with a very small amount of money here not those in the billion handing out by the big banks so just one successful man for each community is more than enough to compensate the lost.
Chiranuch behind bars
FYI: http://www.norporchorusa.com is blocked by MICT and TOT here in Thailand. BTW: so is the thaicrisis blog on wordpress.
Occupation of the malls – UPDATED
A hero, huh? Hearing about his actions reminded me of an old joke:
What’s the difference between a Porche and a porcupine? With a porcupine, the pricks are on the outside.
Imagining a new mandala in mainland Southeast Asia
In my view, accusing the administrators of an academic blog of receiving money from a political figure in return for favourable political coverage on the blog is an extremely serious allegation.
Not only does it affect the reputation of the owners of the blog but it also demeans the reputation of the blog itself and those who contribute to it.
Vichai N has repeatedly made this accusation against Andrew Walker.
Unless Vichai N has clear evidence to support his accusation I call on the administrators to demand that he withdraws his accusation unequivocally or permanently ban him from this blog.
Upakhut – saint and spirit
The story of the Arahat Upagutta can be found in Somdet Phra Maha Samana Chao Kroma Phra Paramanuchit Chinorasa’s Pathama sombodhi gatha.
Imagining a new mandala in mainland Southeast Asia
Oh come now Vichai. You accused people of being in the pay of Thaksin Shinawatra. That’s quite different and scurrilous to boot.
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
About the village loan scheme, I think it’s fair to say that it was/is a mixed story – how could it be otherwise? Not all village administrators handling the funds wisely, making them available to all borrowers on an equitable basis or always ensuring that every borrower be reasonably placed to repay the loan. But then, the same can be said of many other microloan schemes from the famous Grameen Bank original onwards. [cf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfinance#Other_criticisms ]
Flawed? Certainly. Is that sufficient reason to trash it comprehensively as some do? Certainly not.
Occupation of the malls – UPDATED
That’s just a sort of pressure of the Red Shirts against the Abhisit adminstration; that’s just a game “one drop of honey”. They never learn.
Imagining a new mandala in mainland Southeast Asia
Accuse anyone of being pro-Thaksin and immediately you get indignant how-dare-you denial . . .
Very amusing to say the least.
Are there no Red shirts anymore at NM?
The evidence of intention
Stan G,
Abhisit said that the law was fine but that it was sometimes misused.
One of the specific instances of this misuse according to Abhisit was the case of Chiranuch of Prachatai.
She has now been arrested, imprisoned and faces charges that could result in 50 years jail time.
What did the review panel you mentioned do? Who are its members? What are its terms of reference? Where is their report?
“Thailand want р╕вр╕╕р╕Ър╕кр╕ар╕▓”: Red signs in English
Probably just my pedantry as an English teacher at work, Fall (c13). One can read this, on a fairly strained grammatical level, as “join the anti-coup d’etat and consequently join the dark power”.
But at a practical non-pedantic level, it’s quite clear that it doesn’t mean this at all. And I also want to point out that when people take up second languages new forms of that language emerge despite the rearguard actions of pedants (sometimes like me).
And for Michael La Palme and Tarrin, yes, that is a very difficult sign to interpret but the question “Can hed fish rot?” I assume is related to the English saying that “The fish rots from the head”. Also “fraud sufficiont?” might be glossed as “sufficiency fraud”. “House hold?” I have my own ideas on this but I better stop there as my attempts to interpret this placard are leading me ineluctably in the direction of ThoughtCrime. In fact, maybe that’s why the author of the placard whose English is obviously not the best, chose to use English rather than Thai to present his ideas. This is something that Robuzo (comment 1), I think correctly, identified as a potential reason for English signs.
In the event of a hostile forensic analysis of the meaning of such a placard, the accused could always say (presumably in Thai), “I am not responsible for your interpretations. I am not very good at English. What I wanted to say was quite different. You have misinterpreted it.” Who could disprove that? English may function as a protective camouflage.
The graphic element of the sign also shows Abhisit as Hitler via the moustache but makes him either faceless or blind through the masking of the eyes. This could be also interpreted in a number of ways.
This all may be dismissed as just idle speculation but the sentencing of Da Torpedo clearly showed that the court selected between various possible interpretations in the same way as a literary or film critic might do with a character’s motivations and actions. Elizabeth Fitzgerald has pointed this out in her excellent recent New Mandala submission “The Evidence of Intention” . PPT lists some sources for the court’s judgement at http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/das-court-decision
And I’m still working on your other sentence, Fall. Any clues?
I also think that the comments by Sam, Robuzo and ‘Pong express some of the the thoughts I had when I was compiling this submission. So thanks to you for that re-assurance
“…due to the sensitive nature…”
It’s unblocked here in Germany.
Occupation of the malls – UPDATED
Another interesting comparison or yellow and red rallies can be seen by reading the twits, or are they called tweets, by Tulsathit on the Nation’s homepage today. He says he walked past the reds’ protest on Saturday and expresses disgust at seeing children present, “unlike during the PAD protests”.
Well pardon me, but I distinctly remember seeing many children on TV coverage of the PAD rallies, including when they took over the airport.
“Thailand want р╕вр╕╕р╕Ър╕кр╕ар╕▓”: Red signs in English
Please join anti-coup d’etat and the dark power in Thailand
Dark side within you, I sense.
They sigh hurd me h8.
Chiranuch behind bars
Tantawut Taweewarodomkul or Noom, alias Red Eagle could be facing a big sentence. My wife, a yellow shirt, when accessing http://www.norporchorusa.com was in a state of apoplexy. Does anyone know any background to the agenda and authors of this site?
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
as I understand, several Thaksins initiatives, like the taxi cooperatives, were designed to cut the power of the mafias, illegal rich, out of peoples lives
the village loan funds are the most well-known example, where he gave 1M Baht to every village on the condition they setup a cooperative to manage loans at low interest rates, this enabled many farmers to extricate themselves from the loan sharks that had a stranglehold on credit in the villages
the 2 and 3Baht lottery was designed to undercut what is called the underground lottery run by the mafias
the loan funds were (and still are) quite successful because the local people had direct control for their own benefit
the lottery was and is not successful because it struck more directly at the rich (amart) wealth creation schemes and needed the bureaucracy to cooperate
OTOP is also a locally run cooperative scheme for building the ability of each region to realise its cultural and product advantages, this needs some further drive from the top to increase its sales and marketing in Thailand and for export
if anyone else can correct or comment further……
Occupation of the malls – UPDATED
a few sites are comparing reports of the PAD demonstration in the same spot back in March 2006…. eg.
http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2010/04/03/back-when-pad-demonstrated/
Scum of the earth
David L Morell and Chai-anan Samudavanija, in their book Political Conflict in Thailand: Reform, Reaction, Revolution, included Aj. Chai-anan’s translation:
There are those who use the name Thai
and their appearance is Thai
and they live on the land, from the land;but in their hearts they wouild destroy it.
Selling themselves, selling their nation,
Insulting and demeaning the Thai race,
they depend upon Thailand,
gain sustenance from it,
yet hate their countrymen.
They are a weight upon the face of the earth,
scum on the face of Thailand.
by Boonsong Hakritsuk, army officer at the army television station, 1975
Morell and Chai-anan state that the words “their appearance is Thai” was meant to differentiate them as “communists,” but I think it also was meant to remind people (or, inform them) of the role of Chinese communists in training dissidents in camps in northeastern Thailand and Laos at that time.