It’s fine for Mr. Nick to write with a slanted pro-Red viewpoint. Freedom of expression is a cornerstone of democracy. I’m not suggesting he be censored in any way.
It is very possible, however, son, to be with a group and report on them dispassionately – and not be “sterile” while doing so. I’ve seen many reports on both the Reds and Yellows and the current situation that I regard as fair and dispassionate and are quite interesting, and some that I do not.
My problem with Nick’s reports is not that he is biased or not dispassionate. It’s that he presents himself as being unbiased, and then claims the rest of the mainstream media are biased against the Reds.
So just about all the media have got it wrong except him?
Please.
That he makes these kinds of clearly erroneous claims is also reason to view other aspects of his reporting with a critical, even suspicious eye.
I’m glad you and Betty are getting along. No, of course I wouldn’t want you to be sterile, but please do use protection.
Beige? I think you look better in blue. But the choice is yours, son.
I think it’s “pure”, sincere. Many of protesters are really from rural “class”. The way they’re expressing is truly from their heart. That’s beauty, isn’it?
I thought you’d be interested in accessing a series of blog stories we are releasing about Nam Theun 2 resettled villagers’ socio economic monitoring data and analysis.
And if you are interested in receiving NT2 updates please do not hesitate to contact me at [email protected] so we can include you in a dedicated distribution list.
Many thanks
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Three weeks ago I read in the Bangkok Post (http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/34013/china-will-heed-river-concerns) that experts doubted upstream dams were to blame for the falling water levels and had argued the dams were not holding on to water, because they must release it to generate electricity. The source of these ‘expert’ opinions was not provided, and they seemed to have been slavishly accepted as ‘revealed truth’ by the reporter .
After 30 minutes research and cross-checking of information with Google and with no prior knowledge of the China’s dam-building schemes on the Mekong, I was able to comment, “All hydro-dams must be filled after they are built. It took 3 yrs (1993-96) for China to fill the Manowan Dam, and dry season flows were reduced during these years as a consequence. The new Xiaowan Dam is massive by comparison and is estimated to take 10 years to fill by withholding 50% of flows. The dam is now nearing completion, and the filling process has already started.”
Why can’t reporters working with our national media do this?
ц░Сф╕╗ф╕╗ч╛й means ‘democracy’. Not sure if am reading too much into this, but the last character indicates that it was written by someone who learnt the traditional Chinese script e.g. older generation Thai Teochew Chinese who still use this script incl for their shop/business signboards. Younger generation Thais who study Chinese for practical/economic rather than ‘heritage’ reasons learn the modern script currently used in China & Singapore. (First 3 characters are identical for both modern & traditional script.)
Given the interest in this SBS report a quick-and-dirty review is probably appropriate:
Interviewees in the 20-minute report include Thitinan Pongsudhirak, Nattakorn Devakula, Abhisit Vejjajiva, Korn Chatikavanij, Paul Handley, Karuna Buakamsri and Nopadol Pattama. Those who know the terrain will be able to anticipate much of what each of them says…
Of course, it strikes me as unfortunate that SBS has decided to restrict this broadcast to an Australian audience. Much of the report (perhaps half of it!) focusses on lese majeste, and it is very well put together. But it is fair to say that nothing in the report will surprise regular New Mandala readers. In fact, it is far more cautious about the more “sensitive” issues than recent press coverage, to say nothing of what is written online. There is nothing particularly controversial about the Crown Prince, or any of a range of other important actors.
This was not a major break-through but it remains a helpful report — at least for a more general audience.
Insofar as the broadcast has been limited to Australian shores, New Mandala readers outside Australia can share my surprise that one of our great independent television stations is so conservative on these matters…
…but please be content that it is not “must see” TV.
I saw a sign in Spanish also, I was a bit surprise so I asked to person who holding the sign for the meaning, it was something along “We want true democracy” is Spanish and the person is a tourist guide with undergrad degree from on of the prestigious university in Thailand.
The use of English can also provide a sense of freedom from certain cultural restraints, such as the sense that one can employ direct speech, rather than oblique circumlocutions, and remain within the bounds of civility and propriety.
Regarding the photos of the jurnos – i have a few not very good photos of the melee. Main reason i didn’t take any more images is that i was more busy protecting my camera from damage than thinking about images, and in the case of the images of the Brahmin i had to concentrate to get the images of the ritual, and had to fight off many colleagues who wanted to push me away from my position while taking photos.
In the end, the real importance are the events here in Thailand, and not us journos.
In my next report you will see though images of a somewhat similar situation, not as bad though, where i was able to step back and safely take photos of it, without risking my camera, as the situation people took the photos of were not eminently important for me.
As to foreign revolutions and similar topics discussed, especially by the crowd – there are limits of what i can write safely. Don’t forget that repeating certain content can be very risky as well. I have to work within the confines of the legal space. I do not particularly enjoy self censoring myself, but the consequences of overstepping the lines are not exactly appealing.
Sometimes single images can say a lot, and you must read between the lines…
I can’t read Thai, but i can speak it quite well. Speeches on the stages i can follow, depending on who speaks. Some speakers are easy to follow, others not. It takes quite an effort of concentration though, the loudspeaker speaker system makes it a lot more difficult than normal spoken Thai. So far, i haven’t had enough time to just sit and listen, there is so much going on, and keeping up with events on the streets takes up many hours of the day. Since the beginning of the protests i have driven on my motorcycle almost 1000 kilometers already…
Yesterday, at the KPI, i have listened to about half of the televised negotiations, but much of it was just a repetition of previously stated position by both sides, for example. Nothing much new was said.
I also believe that i am not that well suited to do a proper political analyzes anyhow. I have no academic background. I was, for example, very grateful for Chris Baker’s translation of Thaksin’s speeches during April 2009 published here on New Mandala, and have already quoted these properly in the manuscript of my next book.
It would be very helpful if anyone here with the right credibility would publish such a translation, and/or competent analyzes.
Can’t one of our cousins in Oz capture the video stream and upload it somewhere? Or are you just going to sit around all day and chew eucalyptus leaves? Lazy diggers…
Let’s just call the region the Lao provinces. That better fits the political, economic and social reality. Perhaps, if CB’s ideas come to reality it will be South-western Laos….
Latest update as of 28 March, a delegation of foreign diplomats and journalists were given access to the largest resettlement camp/village in laos where the majority of the Hmong returnees are settled. There is no indication that the visit was given unfettered accessbut from various press reports, it appears the delegations members were able to talk to the returnees. Google it.
This is a good sign from the Lao government that they appear to be trying to be transparent about the resettlement process. Who knows if it will continue and whether granting access to the returnees was the result of international community’s pressure.
Interestingly, the UN has been eerily quiet on what the status of the 100 or so Nong Khai returnees whom they designated as persons of concerns. Are they still persons of concerns now that they are back in their home country? Does UNHCR still intend to resettle them in third countries? More importantly, do these returnees still want to be resettled overseas? If they do–I would if I were them (hmm. . . Australia or some dirt poor Lao village?)–I think the Lao government might be obliged (by international law?) to give them that choice. At this point, the UN does not appear (in the open press anyways) to be holding the Lao government’s foot to the fire on this issue.
Of course, the Thai and Lao governments could have avoided this potential mess if they had left the Nong Khai group out of the larged forcibly repatriated group in the first place. My guess is that the Lao government didn’t think the UN and the international community would care and the Thais thought repatriation would be the easy solution to their Nong Khai refugee problem. So far the UN is proving the Lao government right. And what of thoseF third countries who were thinking of resettling these folks? We haven’t heard much from them either. The BIG exception being the U.S. Good on them.
As for the rest of the returnees, they were never accorded any type of protected or refugee status by any country or int’l organization so they were essentially illegals in Thailand. Their repatriation was justified and they now have no choice but to resettle in Laos. I suspect these folks are risk-takers and they’ll be at it again if they deem life is more rewarding in Thailand than in Laos. In any case, no one should give them any false hopes that going to Thailand would bring better chances of resettlement in a third country a-la the Nong Khai group. That’s in the best interest of everybody.
I wonder what so terrible secret about ‘The Family’ they chose to disclose to be afraid of the entire world watching. Let the censors do the job themselves.
I think CPT or at least the underground cells of it is still alive. It is still extremely dangerous for them to resurface, but they will when the time is right.
The opportunity is already there in the form of red shirts overrunning Bangkok.
Whether the Thai society is mature enough to accept them as a legitimate political force is another matter.
“The demise of communism has been greatly exaggerated.”
Moe Aung, congratulations, this is the first ever sentence you’ve ever written on this NM that make great practical sense since I first read you more than two years ago here.
I have regular email communications with Ko Po Than Gyaung, the spokesman and a politburo member of CPB (Communist Party of Burma). If you want I can give you his email address. (Of course, I have to ask him first.) He is a son of late Lu Du U Hla and late Lu Du Daw Ah Mar.
He is very articulate and an interesting person and one very committed communist. He was the leader of CPB UG during 88 uprising and I do not really know what his official position now is.
I was a born communist if there is such a thing. But I am not ideologically communist and I am now managing a very small hedge fund in Sydney as a very small capitalist.
Nick,
In spite of your obvious sympathy for the reds I think your reports are excellent, compelling and unique. And they are well worth the wait, pictures and text. None of my associates or I think there is any question that what you are doing is extremely valuable.
I was however disappointed that you chose not to photograph the ‘fly-by-night’ journalist’s behaviour. Given that their activities are not without consequence, and the very fact that they figure in your report, it seemed an odd choice not to photograph them.
I also would have been interested to hear more about the content of speeches, and/or the opinions of reds themselves. The focus has shifted it seems, what are the different group’s priorities? The red press is filled with articles and pictures detailing foreign revolutions and the fall of foreign monarchies. Are such things discussed on stage or in the crowds?
Are you fluent in Thai Nick? Do you read the red press? I can struggle through written Thai well enough, and I find a lot of the content of these publications quite surprisingly explicit, I wonder how some of them manage to avoid less majeste charges.
In any case please keep up the excellent work. We have your first book of course and eagerly await the publication of your second.
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Bangkok or bust, Part 1
Dear Elroy,
It’s fine for Mr. Nick to write with a slanted pro-Red viewpoint. Freedom of expression is a cornerstone of democracy. I’m not suggesting he be censored in any way.
It is very possible, however, son, to be with a group and report on them dispassionately – and not be “sterile” while doing so. I’ve seen many reports on both the Reds and Yellows and the current situation that I regard as fair and dispassionate and are quite interesting, and some that I do not.
My problem with Nick’s reports is not that he is biased or not dispassionate. It’s that he presents himself as being unbiased, and then claims the rest of the mainstream media are biased against the Reds.
So just about all the media have got it wrong except him?
Please.
That he makes these kinds of clearly erroneous claims is also reason to view other aspects of his reporting with a critical, even suspicious eye.
I’m glad you and Betty are getting along. No, of course I wouldn’t want you to be sterile, but please do use protection.
Beige? I think you look better in blue. But the choice is yours, son.
Dad
“Thailand want р╕вр╕╕р╕Ър╕кр╕ар╕▓”: Red signs in English
I think it’s “pure”, sincere. Many of protesters are really from rural “class”. The way they’re expressing is truly from their heart. That’s beauty, isn’it?
The point is, it’s the voice of the people.
“History will not forgive us…”
Somsak:
Could you perhaps put together your information on the UDD in an academic article? This would certainly very useful, and much welcome.
“…due to the sensitive nature…”
As an Aussie I find such self censorship by SBS offensive, and want my 8 cents for that days broadcast back.
Was it an SBS decision alone, or did the Thai embassy or Stephen Smith or K Rudd also have their fingers in this disgrace?
It’s so typical of the pandering to the Thai elite by most western governments (for decades), and frankly it makes me want to spew.
Nam Theun resettlement – an entirely predictable stuff-up
Hello readers of New Mandala,
I thought you’d be interested in accessing a series of blog stories we are releasing about Nam Theun 2 resettled villagers’ socio economic monitoring data and analysis.
Last week we posted a general intro as well as the first data. Please check this at:
http://blogs.worldbank.org/eastasiapacific/nam-theun-2-how-are-the-resettled-people-doing-overall
If you find these stories interesting please visit the NT2 blog for upcoming ones at:
http://blogs.worldbank.org/eastasiapacific/nt2
And if you are interested in receiving NT2 updates please do not hesitate to contact me at [email protected] so we can include you in a dedicated distribution list.
Many thanks
Victoria
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
[…] Go here to check them out. var addthis_pub="cnaacc"; var addthis_options = 'facebook, twitter, live, digg, myspace, google, yahoobkm, delicious'; […]
Xiaowan filling and the Mekong
Three weeks ago I read in the Bangkok Post (http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/34013/china-will-heed-river-concerns) that experts doubted upstream dams were to blame for the falling water levels and had argued the dams were not holding on to water, because they must release it to generate electricity. The source of these ‘expert’ opinions was not provided, and they seemed to have been slavishly accepted as ‘revealed truth’ by the reporter .
After 30 minutes research and cross-checking of information with Google and with no prior knowledge of the China’s dam-building schemes on the Mekong, I was able to comment, “All hydro-dams must be filled after they are built. It took 3 yrs (1993-96) for China to fill the Manowan Dam, and dry season flows were reduced during these years as a consequence. The new Xiaowan Dam is massive by comparison and is estimated to take 10 years to fill by withholding 50% of flows. The dam is now nearing completion, and the filling process has already started.”
Why can’t reporters working with our national media do this?
“Thailand want р╕вр╕╕р╕Ър╕кр╕ар╕▓”: Red signs in English
ц░Сф╕╗ф╕╗ч╛й means ‘democracy’. Not sure if am reading too much into this, but the last character indicates that it was written by someone who learnt the traditional Chinese script e.g. older generation Thai Teochew Chinese who still use this script incl for their shop/business signboards. Younger generation Thais who study Chinese for practical/economic rather than ‘heritage’ reasons learn the modern script currently used in China & Singapore. (First 3 characters are identical for both modern & traditional script.)
“…due to the sensitive nature…”
Given the interest in this SBS report a quick-and-dirty review is probably appropriate:
Interviewees in the 20-minute report include Thitinan Pongsudhirak, Nattakorn Devakula, Abhisit Vejjajiva, Korn Chatikavanij, Paul Handley, Karuna Buakamsri and Nopadol Pattama. Those who know the terrain will be able to anticipate much of what each of them says…
Of course, it strikes me as unfortunate that SBS has decided to restrict this broadcast to an Australian audience. Much of the report (perhaps half of it!) focusses on lese majeste, and it is very well put together. But it is fair to say that nothing in the report will surprise regular New Mandala readers. In fact, it is far more cautious about the more “sensitive” issues than recent press coverage, to say nothing of what is written online. There is nothing particularly controversial about the Crown Prince, or any of a range of other important actors.
This was not a major break-through but it remains a helpful report — at least for a more general audience.
Insofar as the broadcast has been limited to Australian shores, New Mandala readers outside Australia can share my surprise that one of our great independent television stations is so conservative on these matters…
…but please be content that it is not “must see” TV.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
“Thailand want р╕вр╕╕р╕Ър╕кр╕ар╕▓”: Red signs in English
I saw a sign in Spanish also, I was a bit surprise so I asked to person who holding the sign for the meaning, it was something along “We want true democracy” is Spanish and the person is a tourist guide with undergrad degree from on of the prestigious university in Thailand.
“Thailand want р╕вр╕╕р╕Ър╕кр╕ар╕▓”: Red signs in English
The use of English can also provide a sense of freedom from certain cultural restraints, such as the sense that one can employ direct speech, rather than oblique circumlocutions, and remain within the bounds of civility and propriety.
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
“Rose”:
Thank you 🙂
Regarding the photos of the jurnos – i have a few not very good photos of the melee. Main reason i didn’t take any more images is that i was more busy protecting my camera from damage than thinking about images, and in the case of the images of the Brahmin i had to concentrate to get the images of the ritual, and had to fight off many colleagues who wanted to push me away from my position while taking photos.
In the end, the real importance are the events here in Thailand, and not us journos.
In my next report you will see though images of a somewhat similar situation, not as bad though, where i was able to step back and safely take photos of it, without risking my camera, as the situation people took the photos of were not eminently important for me.
As to foreign revolutions and similar topics discussed, especially by the crowd – there are limits of what i can write safely. Don’t forget that repeating certain content can be very risky as well. I have to work within the confines of the legal space. I do not particularly enjoy self censoring myself, but the consequences of overstepping the lines are not exactly appealing.
Sometimes single images can say a lot, and you must read between the lines…
I can’t read Thai, but i can speak it quite well. Speeches on the stages i can follow, depending on who speaks. Some speakers are easy to follow, others not. It takes quite an effort of concentration though, the loudspeaker speaker system makes it a lot more difficult than normal spoken Thai. So far, i haven’t had enough time to just sit and listen, there is so much going on, and keeping up with events on the streets takes up many hours of the day. Since the beginning of the protests i have driven on my motorcycle almost 1000 kilometers already…
Yesterday, at the KPI, i have listened to about half of the televised negotiations, but much of it was just a repetition of previously stated position by both sides, for example. Nothing much new was said.
I also believe that i am not that well suited to do a proper political analyzes anyhow. I have no academic background. I was, for example, very grateful for Chris Baker’s translation of Thaksin’s speeches during April 2009 published here on New Mandala, and have already quoted these properly in the manuscript of my next book.
It would be very helpful if anyone here with the right credibility would publish such a translation, and/or competent analyzes.
“…due to the sensitive nature…”
Can’t one of our cousins in Oz capture the video stream and upload it somewhere? Or are you just going to sit around all day and chew eucalyptus leaves? Lazy diggers…
Are you kidding me?
Let’s just call the region the Lao provinces. That better fits the political, economic and social reality. Perhaps, if CB’s ideas come to reality it will be South-western Laos….
“…due to the sensitive nature…”
It seems to me that SBS has decided in advance who is going to be permitted to view this show. What’s the point of such self-censorship?
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
Latest update as of 28 March, a delegation of foreign diplomats and journalists were given access to the largest resettlement camp/village in laos where the majority of the Hmong returnees are settled. There is no indication that the visit was given unfettered accessbut from various press reports, it appears the delegations members were able to talk to the returnees. Google it.
This is a good sign from the Lao government that they appear to be trying to be transparent about the resettlement process. Who knows if it will continue and whether granting access to the returnees was the result of international community’s pressure.
Interestingly, the UN has been eerily quiet on what the status of the 100 or so Nong Khai returnees whom they designated as persons of concerns. Are they still persons of concerns now that they are back in their home country? Does UNHCR still intend to resettle them in third countries? More importantly, do these returnees still want to be resettled overseas? If they do–I would if I were them (hmm. . . Australia or some dirt poor Lao village?)–I think the Lao government might be obliged (by international law?) to give them that choice. At this point, the UN does not appear (in the open press anyways) to be holding the Lao government’s foot to the fire on this issue.
Of course, the Thai and Lao governments could have avoided this potential mess if they had left the Nong Khai group out of the larged forcibly repatriated group in the first place. My guess is that the Lao government didn’t think the UN and the international community would care and the Thais thought repatriation would be the easy solution to their Nong Khai refugee problem. So far the UN is proving the Lao government right. And what of thoseF third countries who were thinking of resettling these folks? We haven’t heard much from them either. The BIG exception being the U.S. Good on them.
As for the rest of the returnees, they were never accorded any type of protected or refugee status by any country or int’l organization so they were essentially illegals in Thailand. Their repatriation was justified and they now have no choice but to resettle in Laos. I suspect these folks are risk-takers and they’ll be at it again if they deem life is more rewarding in Thailand than in Laos. In any case, no one should give them any false hopes that going to Thailand would bring better chances of resettlement in a third country a-la the Nong Khai group. That’s in the best interest of everybody.
“…due to the sensitive nature…”
I wonder what so terrible secret about ‘The Family’ they chose to disclose to be afraid of the entire world watching. Let the censors do the job themselves.
“History will not forgive us…”
Chris,
I think CPT or at least the underground cells of it is still alive. It is still extremely dangerous for them to resurface, but they will when the time is right.
The opportunity is already there in the form of red shirts overrunning Bangkok.
Whether the Thai society is mature enough to accept them as a legitimate political force is another matter.
“History will not forgive us…”
“The demise of communism has been greatly exaggerated.”
Moe Aung, congratulations, this is the first ever sentence you’ve ever written on this NM that make great practical sense since I first read you more than two years ago here.
I have regular email communications with Ko Po Than Gyaung, the spokesman and a politburo member of CPB (Communist Party of Burma). If you want I can give you his email address. (Of course, I have to ask him first.) He is a son of late Lu Du U Hla and late Lu Du Daw Ah Mar.
He is very articulate and an interesting person and one very committed communist. He was the leader of CPB UG during 88 uprising and I do not really know what his official position now is.
I was a born communist if there is such a thing. But I am not ideologically communist and I am now managing a very small hedge fund in Sydney as a very small capitalist.
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
Nick,
In spite of your obvious sympathy for the reds I think your reports are excellent, compelling and unique. And they are well worth the wait, pictures and text. None of my associates or I think there is any question that what you are doing is extremely valuable.
I was however disappointed that you chose not to photograph the ‘fly-by-night’ journalist’s behaviour. Given that their activities are not without consequence, and the very fact that they figure in your report, it seemed an odd choice not to photograph them.
I also would have been interested to hear more about the content of speeches, and/or the opinions of reds themselves. The focus has shifted it seems, what are the different group’s priorities? The red press is filled with articles and pictures detailing foreign revolutions and the fall of foreign monarchies. Are such things discussed on stage or in the crowds?
Are you fluent in Thai Nick? Do you read the red press? I can struggle through written Thai well enough, and I find a lot of the content of these publications quite surprisingly explicit, I wonder how some of them manage to avoid less majeste charges.
In any case please keep up the excellent work. We have your first book of course and eagerly await the publication of your second.