Frank Lee – 70
I dont look at this as a losing/winning situation, but rather a political discourse back with logic and evidence.
If you want to believe that “initiating” ( (i.e. promising) a huge project like that means much compared to actually getting it finished (the hard part) – well you would probably have believed one of Transport Minister Thaksin’s many other boasts: that he would solve Bangkok’s traffic problems in six months.
MRT and motor way are finished and running isnt it so what is wrong with that? On a contrary it took almost 40 years (including planning) for Suvannaphummi airport to built, the irony that almost 80% of the project got completed during Thaksin time. The parking building was partially finish and the road leading to the airport itself was only 2 lanes wide when Thaksin government took over the project, and all of that took 4 governments term to do Chuan 1, Banharn, Chaovalit, Chuan 2 that’s almost 10 years. So, yeah I think Thaksin did all the hard part for that too, although you might not like the airport because it got too few toilet and bare concrete skeleton but it got vote as top 20 airport of the world so I think its doing its job.
As for BKK traffic, I agreed that Thaksin fail miserably but I give him the credit that he got balls to even try, did anyone dare to even say they can fix Bangkok traffic?
There’s an old Chinese saying that goes in English like “The more you do, the more complains to get, but the person that never do anything, doesn’t get complain”
I was at Ramkamhang area with my friends but didnt get a chance to take any picture but it was surreal non the less.
Poo Nakonsritum – I almost not going to response to you because your post is direct toward to Nick but I feel like there is this point that I really want you to think about.
You said that the red was energize by gas money to come to protest, so how much do you think they get per head? let’s say 2,000 – 3,000 according to the government spoke person’s announcement. You are saying that those people got paid 3,000 baht just to come in the hot sun and protest for a month? I’m telling you the 3,000 doesnt even worth the cost of transportation that took them to Bangkok.
Personally, I wouldn’t take 3,000 to be in hot sun for 3 days even. However, I want you to think about one thing, lets say that’s the whole 150,000 people get paid to come then we are talking about a pretty large some of people that actually accept a measly 3,000 to come out, scream, got sick, and probably a handful got sent to hospital. If you think 3,000 worth all that, then this is a really sad state the poor people in Thailand is, they are so poor that a measly 3,000 worth that much to them, do you think it was any better before then?
There’s no good or evil, nor black or white in this you are simply too naive.
Andrew – perhaps you can enlighten me as to where the general public could find a neutral media reporting – the one that does not polarize the conflict in this land of smile? In today’s world of being constantly bombarded by TV channels operated by the army and the government and the likes of the Nation and ASTV – trying to create fear and panic for the oh so violent red-shirts – I find Nick’s report (and New Mandala for that matter) a refreshing new perspective.
As for Thai people being polarized, perhaps it’s the right time to be so. Thai culture places emphasis on being compromising and non-confrontational – without acknowledging or attempting to resolve the conflicts. What you see as polarized today is partly a result of this culture.
Also, would you please explain how this paragraph:
“…the vast majority of Red Shirts from rural and urban lower and lower middle classes are economically, politically and socially disadvantaged, and therefore the present conflict does have clear elements of a class struggle.”
also applies to the yellow shirts? The yellows are clearly more privileged than the reds economically, politically, and socially. They are perceived to be richer and were not paid by anyone to go to the rallies. They had support from all sectors – the armies, media, powerful middle class, as well as the you-know-who. If the media space is a fighting arena, the reds are clearly under-dogs and are never expected to win. (Hell, they can’t even find a decent leader apart from manipulating Thaksin.) As I recall, the yellows were asking for the destruction of Thaksin and a new democracy in which only people with a college degree can vote. You’d wonder what they are fighting for exactly…
Nick – thanks for the report. I await your new book.
Some interesting conclusions that you jumped to there. I mentioned nothing about suppressing, or equal time for the yellow shirts or who you have contacts with. My point is just something for you to consider. Are you contributing to the division or contributing to the solution?
By adding a wider view to your record of events, you could make that choice clear. With this article, because you do not mention anything about the reasons why or draw any positive conclusions, it looks a lot like red shirt propaganda.
Don’t get me wrong, I am commenting because I look for purpose and reason and intention.
I say, that the majority of people in this country deserve more than they get and, I really do wonder why most thai people (red or yellow) aren’t out in the street protesting for a better share.
I found your article to be dry and rather a boring account of the Red Shirt movement these past few weeks. Though you maintain your neutrality, I sense a level of sympathy towards the Red Shirts
In your comparison between PAD protests that led to the Oct. 7th crackdown – and the recent Red Shirt gathering, you suggested that this was the biggest gathering of protestors you’ve ever seen – I disagree and think you should really check the numbers instead of speculating. You also never mentioned that the PAD protests lasted over 100 days with a consistent number of protestors. You also never mentioned that PAD protestors were not given “Gas Money” or “Food Money” to join the cause.
Do you think the Red Shirt rally can last that long while maintaining a solid number of protestors as the PAD had done? Nick, there is no comparison between the two.
You so eloquently talked about the symbolic gesture of spilling blood on government house and the PM’s house – though you failed to mentioned the intense rain storm that came down heavily on all of Bangkok that morning as Red shirts prepared to “perform” this rite. If you were to really understand Animism – a back bone in thai spirituality and religion – works, you might have also suggested that this was symbolic of some sort of Divine Intervention. A sign from the gods for the Red shirts to YIELD – or that any curse put on by them would simply be washed away.
I am sympathetic towards the Red shirts to the extent that they can’t think – they don’t care what their leaders are shouting (which is mostly nonsense, distortion of facts and flat out lies and accusations), and even if they were really listening – I don’t think they have the common sense or sophistication to really see the Red Shirt logic. But thats also because there is no logic behind the Red Shirt movement. They’re here because someone said there was going to be a party, and that they were going to get paid.
Thats why the protesters are baited with money to come, and thats why when the money or funds dwindle, so do the protestors. Thats why a Red shirt rally would never last over 100 days.
Sure there is a class struggle here, there has always been and will be. But this is true with every other society – is that what this is really about?
For once, in the last decade, we have an intelligent , out spoken and eloquent prime minister. Its like going from W Bush to Obama, and in that same kind of spirit Mr. Abhisit (just him, not the coalition government or the democratic party) truly represent that hope for change. I believe in change and sure it will come soon…Good always prevails.
I think that is an interesting challenge. As an expert on the North, I think a case could be made for just cause for this scenario using evidence compiled from the 1920’s annexation of the North, 1945-7, 1971-6, 1992, the 700 year anniversary of Lanna and 2007-09 as well as scientific models suggesting that Bangkok’s days are numbered (I mean using 20 fingers and toes to count the years before public services will crack) due to global warming and lack of maintenance and investment in replacement.
Will your readers get immediate gratification? Come on, this is Thailand. Change here happens in fits and starts and noone can sustain a movement except Thaksin. Is there critical mass now to produce change? Yes, there is. Is the leadership willing to lead beyond calling for a new election? No they are not. Yet. Could the elite here avoid loss of by power? Yes, by allowing Thaksin to return and dropping all charges and with only half of his fortune. That is the unpredictable aspect of this: what price is acceptable to the reds that will finally sell out the poor people involved in these demonstrations? (Again)
It is interesting how the fight against dictatorship and the elite in Russia took such a twist and that the reds were the ones to take them down. However, to be fair, a look at the Whites’ policies is needed for more balance, along with an understanding of feudal land practices and nascent nationalism in Ukraine, the Baltic states and in southern Russia during WWI and into the 1920s.
Thailand’s red shirts are all shirt and no muscle. I do not expect a similar outcome here unless those red shirt leaders wanting to take more positive action take over leadership immediately. Again, the only outcome we can forsee right now is continued stalemate.
I hope you do not ask me to suppress news and events in order not to “polarize this country”. I report what i see, and that’s it.
It is rather difficult to report from “both perspectives” in this situation, as government representatives do not invite me to their handpicked journalist’s lunches, and in open forums, when i have the chance to ask questions, i usually get lied to (as when i recently asked Panitan about the real bullets fired during Sonkran, which he denied), or when my questions are completely ignored (when i asked the uncomfortable question over the Blue Shirts).
The PAD is right now keeping itself covered, and there is right now nothing to report about them on the ground. In past articles i have reported on them, and it may surprise you – i am on speaking terms with many PAD members, and on very good terms with a few of them as well.
“Steve”:
Many of the photographers/cameramen were completely unknown to me, and that has made a critical mass, in addition to the guys who i have known for a long time already. I have two or three not very good images of the melee in front of government house, but took more care of keeping my camera safe.
I front of Abhisit’s house it was raining while the pushing was going on, so i remained in the dry, and watched it from a distance. No need to endanger my camera.
I needed the images of the Brahmin ceremony, they were extremely important, especially in connection with the later attempted counter of the curse by the Democrat Party officials (which i have expected to happen). Therefore i had to take part in the mess until the ceremony was over, as much as i dislike such situations. This is very physical – colleagues pushing you from left and right, and from behind to fight over your position. Right hand on your camera, left hand pushing lenses away that others place in front of your camera from behind. Really disgusting.
I generally prefer to photograph with a mob of the local Thai photographers. We meet all the time, and worked out a system. Everybody needs to get his photo, no use to start arguments or fights, it would just poison the generally friendly atmosphere. Usually we place ourselves, make sure that colleagues have some space as well. When we get our images we make then sure that others have a chance as well.
The problem starts when fly by night people and amateurs come along. They don’t need to care, because they are gone anyhow in a day or two, only to be seen again when there is potential trouble again.
Fortunately they only such really messy situation was during the blood spilling. All they other photos i have shown here there were no such problems.
I have a very funny photo of the friendly mob of photographers in my next installment, which i have taken yesterday.
“chris beale”
Thank you, yes, i guess i will have to express the medium of 10 per car better in the book version in a better way – all the trucks and pick up trucks with people on the back made this.
What is happening in Thailand now is almost a revolution.
One night in 1985 in Bangkok I was at a big discotheque, wearing a bright red shirt without knowing the sensitivities or the significance of the red color in staunchly-anti-communist Thailand.
On the dance-floor I was picked on by a couple of rough-looking Thai men and asked why was I in that disgusting color. They obviously thought I was a Thai. I was with a group of Thai friends and they told them I was a Burmese. Only then they left me alone dancing.
Later I realized that one could get killed in rural Thailand by being in that color and I never dared to wear that red shirt again.
Thanks for sharing you observations. Shame that you are biased though, as it is difficult to discern the real truth. Do you know that your writings serve to continue the polarizing of this country? Do you really want to have Thailand continue to be split down the middle? Surely, what both sides are fighting for are better conditions.
A good way to counter my comment is next time, before you hit ‘publish’, you could reread your work and see what a difference you could make by acknowledging the struggle from both perspectives, given that both sides (i.e. everyone) want improvements.
example
“…the vast majority of Red Shirts from rural and urban lower and lower middle classes are economically, politically and socially disadvantaged, and therefore the present conflict does have clear elements of a class struggle.”
This applies to ‘Yellow Shirts’ also, so your point doesn’t really make sense….
There was no evidence (i.e. statistical surveys, etc.) from the article to prove the point. I couldn’t find similar article in Thai language media. Obviously, most of the Red Shirt Movement people cannot read the article in the Bangkok Post. For this reason, the article was aimed at the foreign policy makers.
This is not inadvertent it was done deliberately to promote the idea or create the impression that people at the grass root level don’t want change. Clearly, there are gap between the policy level and what is on the ground. And if the bilateral and multilateral donors do not know the context of the Thai domestic politics and the Thai language, they would go in the wrong direction.
I take it as a compliment even though the snide phrase “mainly fact-based fiction” is hurtful.
Film rights? Interesting as Nich once told me The Scourge would make a great movie after reading my series first time. But, believe me for once, my purpose is not after fame and fortune.
I’m just hoping that from my writings something good for humanity will come out and make Burma a better place than I’d witnessed bitterly and still painfully remember.
We appreciate your efforts to draw attention to this secession scenario — but I sense that we now need to move beyond the idle assertion of its merits. So, here’s the challenge. Can you produce a 500-800 word piece for NM that argues the case for this secession scenario? Evidence, clear argument and some speculative flair will be required.
This is an opportunity to have a full debate about the idea that the northern and northeastern portions of Thailand could form a different polity in the years ahead.
If you can’t manage this we will be inclined to discontinue publishing comments that introduce these assertions.
Thanks for your understanding. I look forward to receiving your contribution at the usual place.
The Economist’s article clearly indicates Thailand’s foreign investors are now extremely worried.
That the crisis could spin out of control, into revolution, and/ or secession of Isaarn and Lanna, is clearly on the cards.
I sure am looking forward to the “Confessions of a Burmese Army Hood”. Rename it ‘Memoirs’ or ‘Life and Times’ if you like. Worth selling it for film rights I reckon, not just a book.
It would be a shame if the story went untold. Certainly colourful and scenic, from the Burmese jungles to Bangkok and Sydney, spanning an interesting and eventful period of some three decades with diverting subplots, and billed as mainly fact-based fiction. And above all you’ve definitely got the knack. Hope it’s going to be a nice little earner for you, and time’s on your side to enjoy it. Good luck.
Ralph#4 – thanks for the humour : good you’ve got some !
And Tarrin #5 – a coup by liver poisoning – that would make 19 coups since 1932, not 18.
Please help me get the count correct, for my astrological chart. !
( 9 of course, is a particularly significant number).
Nick – as usual, excellent.
Three points :
1) anecdotal – during the Songkran riots I ventured into my soi to buy food, and was cheered as a Red Shirt simply because of wearing one of those Japanese soap powder promotion shirts one buys on Khao Sarn Road, which had some red !
Until I left Thailand, months later, every night soup sellers listened to Red radio, volume full blast, with obvious widespread support in that soi – despite some Yellow Shirts.
An anecdote, backing what you and Mark Askew have written.
2)”later speculation that dwindling numbers may have indicated protest fatigue ignored the usual mechanics of these protests in Thailand” :
Yes – I was there in May’92, and protest numbers fluctuated greatly, according to eg. heat, food, repression, uprising, etc.
3)”medium ten” in cars – for a wider Western audience you need to explain that most Red-Shirts “cars” are “utes” – i.e. utility trucks, where Thais commonly pack in at least ten passengers on the back.
Uniformed Western audiences might otherwise think you are pushing propaganda, as 10 obviously can not fit into a VolksWagen !
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Thai style democracy?
Frank Lee – 70
I dont look at this as a losing/winning situation, but rather a political discourse back with logic and evidence.
If you want to believe that “initiating” ( (i.e. promising) a huge project like that means much compared to actually getting it finished (the hard part) – well you would probably have believed one of Transport Minister Thaksin’s many other boasts: that he would solve Bangkok’s traffic problems in six months.
MRT and motor way are finished and running isnt it so what is wrong with that? On a contrary it took almost 40 years (including planning) for Suvannaphummi airport to built, the irony that almost 80% of the project got completed during Thaksin time. The parking building was partially finish and the road leading to the airport itself was only 2 lanes wide when Thaksin government took over the project, and all of that took 4 governments term to do Chuan 1, Banharn, Chaovalit, Chuan 2 that’s almost 10 years. So, yeah I think Thaksin did all the hard part for that too, although you might not like the airport because it got too few toilet and bare concrete skeleton but it got vote as top 20 airport of the world so I think its doing its job.
As for BKK traffic, I agreed that Thaksin fail miserably but I give him the credit that he got balls to even try, did anyone dare to even say they can fix Bangkok traffic?
There’s an old Chinese saying that goes in English like “The more you do, the more complains to get, but the person that never do anything, doesn’t get complain”
“History will not forgive us…”
Agreed with Don, the red shirt is having problem on the leader department.
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
Thank you nick for your coverage.
I was at Ramkamhang area with my friends but didnt get a chance to take any picture but it was surreal non the less.
Poo Nakonsritum – I almost not going to response to you because your post is direct toward to Nick but I feel like there is this point that I really want you to think about.
You said that the red was energize by gas money to come to protest, so how much do you think they get per head? let’s say 2,000 – 3,000 according to the government spoke person’s announcement. You are saying that those people got paid 3,000 baht just to come in the hot sun and protest for a month? I’m telling you the 3,000 doesnt even worth the cost of transportation that took them to Bangkok.
Personally, I wouldn’t take 3,000 to be in hot sun for 3 days even. However, I want you to think about one thing, lets say that’s the whole 150,000 people get paid to come then we are talking about a pretty large some of people that actually accept a measly 3,000 to come out, scream, got sick, and probably a handful got sent to hospital. If you think 3,000 worth all that, then this is a really sad state the poor people in Thailand is, they are so poor that a measly 3,000 worth that much to them, do you think it was any better before then?
There’s no good or evil, nor black or white in this you are simply too naive.
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
Andrew – perhaps you can enlighten me as to where the general public could find a neutral media reporting – the one that does not polarize the conflict in this land of smile? In today’s world of being constantly bombarded by TV channels operated by the army and the government and the likes of the Nation and ASTV – trying to create fear and panic for the oh so violent red-shirts – I find Nick’s report (and New Mandala for that matter) a refreshing new perspective.
As for Thai people being polarized, perhaps it’s the right time to be so. Thai culture places emphasis on being compromising and non-confrontational – without acknowledging or attempting to resolve the conflicts. What you see as polarized today is partly a result of this culture.
Also, would you please explain how this paragraph:
“…the vast majority of Red Shirts from rural and urban lower and lower middle classes are economically, politically and socially disadvantaged, and therefore the present conflict does have clear elements of a class struggle.”
also applies to the yellow shirts? The yellows are clearly more privileged than the reds economically, politically, and socially. They are perceived to be richer and were not paid by anyone to go to the rallies. They had support from all sectors – the armies, media, powerful middle class, as well as the you-know-who. If the media space is a fighting arena, the reds are clearly under-dogs and are never expected to win. (Hell, they can’t even find a decent leader apart from manipulating Thaksin.) As I recall, the yellows were asking for the destruction of Thaksin and a new democracy in which only people with a college degree can vote. You’d wonder what they are fighting for exactly…
Nick – thanks for the report. I await your new book.
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
Some interesting conclusions that you jumped to there. I mentioned nothing about suppressing, or equal time for the yellow shirts or who you have contacts with. My point is just something for you to consider. Are you contributing to the division or contributing to the solution?
By adding a wider view to your record of events, you could make that choice clear. With this article, because you do not mention anything about the reasons why or draw any positive conclusions, it looks a lot like red shirt propaganda.
Don’t get me wrong, I am commenting because I look for purpose and reason and intention.
I say, that the majority of people in this country deserve more than they get and, I really do wonder why most thai people (red or yellow) aren’t out in the street protesting for a better share.
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
Nick,
I found your article to be dry and rather a boring account of the Red Shirt movement these past few weeks. Though you maintain your neutrality, I sense a level of sympathy towards the Red Shirts
In your comparison between PAD protests that led to the Oct. 7th crackdown – and the recent Red Shirt gathering, you suggested that this was the biggest gathering of protestors you’ve ever seen – I disagree and think you should really check the numbers instead of speculating. You also never mentioned that the PAD protests lasted over 100 days with a consistent number of protestors. You also never mentioned that PAD protestors were not given “Gas Money” or “Food Money” to join the cause.
Do you think the Red Shirt rally can last that long while maintaining a solid number of protestors as the PAD had done? Nick, there is no comparison between the two.
You so eloquently talked about the symbolic gesture of spilling blood on government house and the PM’s house – though you failed to mentioned the intense rain storm that came down heavily on all of Bangkok that morning as Red shirts prepared to “perform” this rite. If you were to really understand Animism – a back bone in thai spirituality and religion – works, you might have also suggested that this was symbolic of some sort of Divine Intervention. A sign from the gods for the Red shirts to YIELD – or that any curse put on by them would simply be washed away.
I am sympathetic towards the Red shirts to the extent that they can’t think – they don’t care what their leaders are shouting (which is mostly nonsense, distortion of facts and flat out lies and accusations), and even if they were really listening – I don’t think they have the common sense or sophistication to really see the Red Shirt logic. But thats also because there is no logic behind the Red Shirt movement. They’re here because someone said there was going to be a party, and that they were going to get paid.
Thats why the protesters are baited with money to come, and thats why when the money or funds dwindle, so do the protestors. Thats why a Red shirt rally would never last over 100 days.
Sure there is a class struggle here, there has always been and will be. But this is true with every other society – is that what this is really about?
For once, in the last decade, we have an intelligent , out spoken and eloquent prime minister. Its like going from W Bush to Obama, and in that same kind of spirit Mr. Abhisit (just him, not the coalition government or the democratic party) truly represent that hope for change. I believe in change and sure it will come soon…Good always prevails.
P.
The Economist takes on lese majeste
I think that is an interesting challenge. As an expert on the North, I think a case could be made for just cause for this scenario using evidence compiled from the 1920’s annexation of the North, 1945-7, 1971-6, 1992, the 700 year anniversary of Lanna and 2007-09 as well as scientific models suggesting that Bangkok’s days are numbered (I mean using 20 fingers and toes to count the years before public services will crack) due to global warming and lack of maintenance and investment in replacement.
Will your readers get immediate gratification? Come on, this is Thailand. Change here happens in fits and starts and noone can sustain a movement except Thaksin. Is there critical mass now to produce change? Yes, there is. Is the leadership willing to lead beyond calling for a new election? No they are not. Yet. Could the elite here avoid loss of by power? Yes, by allowing Thaksin to return and dropping all charges and with only half of his fortune. That is the unpredictable aspect of this: what price is acceptable to the reds that will finally sell out the poor people involved in these demonstrations? (Again)
“History will not forgive us…”
It is interesting how the fight against dictatorship and the elite in Russia took such a twist and that the reds were the ones to take them down. However, to be fair, a look at the Whites’ policies is needed for more balance, along with an understanding of feudal land practices and nascent nationalism in Ukraine, the Baltic states and in southern Russia during WWI and into the 1920s.
Thailand’s red shirts are all shirt and no muscle. I do not expect a similar outcome here unless those red shirt leaders wanting to take more positive action take over leadership immediately. Again, the only outcome we can forsee right now is continued stalemate.
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
“Andrew”:
I hope you do not ask me to suppress news and events in order not to “polarize this country”. I report what i see, and that’s it.
It is rather difficult to report from “both perspectives” in this situation, as government representatives do not invite me to their handpicked journalist’s lunches, and in open forums, when i have the chance to ask questions, i usually get lied to (as when i recently asked Panitan about the real bullets fired during Sonkran, which he denied), or when my questions are completely ignored (when i asked the uncomfortable question over the Blue Shirts).
The PAD is right now keeping itself covered, and there is right now nothing to report about them on the ground. In past articles i have reported on them, and it may surprise you – i am on speaking terms with many PAD members, and on very good terms with a few of them as well.
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
Thank you, all 🙂
“Steve”:
Many of the photographers/cameramen were completely unknown to me, and that has made a critical mass, in addition to the guys who i have known for a long time already. I have two or three not very good images of the melee in front of government house, but took more care of keeping my camera safe.
I front of Abhisit’s house it was raining while the pushing was going on, so i remained in the dry, and watched it from a distance. No need to endanger my camera.
I needed the images of the Brahmin ceremony, they were extremely important, especially in connection with the later attempted counter of the curse by the Democrat Party officials (which i have expected to happen). Therefore i had to take part in the mess until the ceremony was over, as much as i dislike such situations. This is very physical – colleagues pushing you from left and right, and from behind to fight over your position. Right hand on your camera, left hand pushing lenses away that others place in front of your camera from behind. Really disgusting.
I generally prefer to photograph with a mob of the local Thai photographers. We meet all the time, and worked out a system. Everybody needs to get his photo, no use to start arguments or fights, it would just poison the generally friendly atmosphere. Usually we place ourselves, make sure that colleagues have some space as well. When we get our images we make then sure that others have a chance as well.
The problem starts when fly by night people and amateurs come along. They don’t need to care, because they are gone anyhow in a day or two, only to be seen again when there is potential trouble again.
Fortunately they only such really messy situation was during the blood spilling. All they other photos i have shown here there were no such problems.
I have a very funny photo of the friendly mob of photographers in my next installment, which i have taken yesterday.
“chris beale”
Thank you, yes, i guess i will have to express the medium of 10 per car better in the book version in a better way – all the trucks and pick up trucks with people on the back made this.
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
What is happening in Thailand now is almost a revolution.
One night in 1985 in Bangkok I was at a big discotheque, wearing a bright red shirt without knowing the sensitivities or the significance of the red color in staunchly-anti-communist Thailand.
On the dance-floor I was picked on by a couple of rough-looking Thai men and asked why was I in that disgusting color. They obviously thought I was a Thai. I was with a group of Thai friends and they told them I was a Burmese. Only then they left me alone dancing.
Later I realized that one could get killed in rural Thailand by being in that color and I never dared to wear that red shirt again.
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
Thanks for sharing you observations. Shame that you are biased though, as it is difficult to discern the real truth. Do you know that your writings serve to continue the polarizing of this country? Do you really want to have Thailand continue to be split down the middle? Surely, what both sides are fighting for are better conditions.
A good way to counter my comment is next time, before you hit ‘publish’, you could reread your work and see what a difference you could make by acknowledging the struggle from both perspectives, given that both sides (i.e. everyone) want improvements.
example
“…the vast majority of Red Shirts from rural and urban lower and lower middle classes are economically, politically and socially disadvantaged, and therefore the present conflict does have clear elements of a class struggle.”
This applies to ‘Yellow Shirts’ also, so your point doesn’t really make sense….
Review of Agrarian Angst and Rural Resistance
There was no evidence (i.e. statistical surveys, etc.) from the article to prove the point. I couldn’t find similar article in Thai language media. Obviously, most of the Red Shirt Movement people cannot read the article in the Bangkok Post. For this reason, the article was aimed at the foreign policy makers.
This is not inadvertent it was done deliberately to promote the idea or create the impression that people at the grass root level don’t want change. Clearly, there are gap between the policy level and what is on the ground. And if the bilateral and multilateral donors do not know the context of the Thai domestic politics and the Thai language, they would go in the wrong direction.
The scourge of Burma, Part 5
Thanks Moe Aung,
I take it as a compliment even though the snide phrase “mainly fact-based fiction” is hurtful.
Film rights? Interesting as Nich once told me The Scourge would make a great movie after reading my series first time. But, believe me for once, my purpose is not after fame and fortune.
I’m just hoping that from my writings something good for humanity will come out and make Burma a better place than I’d witnessed bitterly and still painfully remember.
Our people have been suffering for far too long!
The Economist takes on lese majeste
Thanks Chris Beale,
We appreciate your efforts to draw attention to this secession scenario — but I sense that we now need to move beyond the idle assertion of its merits. So, here’s the challenge. Can you produce a 500-800 word piece for NM that argues the case for this secession scenario? Evidence, clear argument and some speculative flair will be required.
This is an opportunity to have a full debate about the idea that the northern and northeastern portions of Thailand could form a different polity in the years ahead.
If you can’t manage this we will be inclined to discontinue publishing comments that introduce these assertions.
Thanks for your understanding. I look forward to receiving your contribution at the usual place.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
Great and informative reporting.
Thank You !!!
Please keep us informed , almost all other media are strangely silent……….
Phil
The Economist takes on lese majeste
The Economist’s article clearly indicates Thailand’s foreign investors are now extremely worried.
That the crisis could spin out of control, into revolution, and/ or secession of Isaarn and Lanna, is clearly on the cards.
The scourge of Burma, Part 5
Hla Oo
I sure am looking forward to the “Confessions of a Burmese Army Hood”. Rename it ‘Memoirs’ or ‘Life and Times’ if you like. Worth selling it for film rights I reckon, not just a book.
It would be a shame if the story went untold. Certainly colourful and scenic, from the Burmese jungles to Bangkok and Sydney, spanning an interesting and eventful period of some three decades with diverting subplots, and billed as mainly fact-based fiction. And above all you’ve definitely got the knack. Hope it’s going to be a nice little earner for you, and time’s on your side to enjoy it. Good luck.
More from Ferrara on Thai politics
Ralph#4 – thanks for the humour : good you’ve got some !
And Tarrin #5 – a coup by liver poisoning – that would make 19 coups since 1932, not 18.
Please help me get the count correct, for my astrological chart. !
( 9 of course, is a particularly significant number).
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
Nick – as usual, excellent.
Three points :
1) anecdotal – during the Songkran riots I ventured into my soi to buy food, and was cheered as a Red Shirt simply because of wearing one of those Japanese soap powder promotion shirts one buys on Khao Sarn Road, which had some red !
Until I left Thailand, months later, every night soup sellers listened to Red radio, volume full blast, with obvious widespread support in that soi – despite some Yellow Shirts.
An anecdote, backing what you and Mark Askew have written.
2)”later speculation that dwindling numbers may have indicated protest fatigue ignored the usual mechanics of these protests in Thailand” :
Yes – I was there in May’92, and protest numbers fluctuated greatly, according to eg. heat, food, repression, uprising, etc.
3)”medium ten” in cars – for a wider Western audience you need to explain that most Red-Shirts “cars” are “utes” – i.e. utility trucks, where Thais commonly pack in at least ten passengers on the back.
Uniformed Western audiences might otherwise think you are pushing propaganda, as 10 obviously can not fit into a VolksWagen !