Thanks, Nick – well done as usual. It was worth the wait to see the results of your efforts and read your first-hand impressions of what you actually saw and heard. I wonder how long we’ll have to wait for the suggestions that you have “coloured” your coverage…..
Do you have any notion of who the mob-handed photographers/cameramen were or where they were from? Thai media or freelancers or what? A shame, in a way, that you couldn’t get shots of their behaviour – but I think I appreciate the practicalities of how difficult it is to get that angle in such a scrum.
As you noted, looking at mainstream Thai media’s coverage in terms of both pictures and copy one could imagine that they attended a wholly different event.
As other posters have said, this is the key point, and it should be repeated far and wide: it is impossible to judge how popular the king actually is while the lese majeste law is in force.
If the lese majeste law were to be repealed, and an end put to the 24/7/365 propaganda, it is likely that a different picture of the king would emerge.
After every journalist writes, “the revered Thai king”, they should always add the disclaimer: “the penalty for criticism of the king or the royal family is 15 years imprisonment”.
if military “intelligence” has any then they must have seen the same as you and while their bosses are no doubt strategising their responses they must be aware of the large popular pressure that has built against them
I have assumed that a critical break will occur if soldiers defy their commanders… presumably the generals are being very careful about issuing orders that may not be obeyed… perhaps Prayuth, if he is as rabid as painted may make the mistake?
movements by the Prince and Khun Visanu(?) and perhaps if Prem is really sick/out of action must be upping the ante for those “amart” that want a united front against the upstarts from the lower classes
If you want to believe that “initiating” ( (i.e. promising) a huge project like that means much compared to actually getting it finished (the hard part) – well you would probably have believed one of Transport Minister Thaksin’s many other boasts: that he would solve Bangkok’s traffic problems in six months.
That’s fine too – just don’t expect me to agree with you: there are already too many apologists around, both paid and unpaid, for Takky.
Sarit wasnt oust, he died from liver related complication due to heavy drinking (although there’s some rumor about the palace poisoning him) and Tanorm and Prapart took over the government after 1963 and proven to be an ineffective and corrupted so by 1968 the revolution stream cough on and by 1973 the revolution stream was at it climax when 9 (or 12? I dont recall) got expel from the Ramkumhang university from publishing an anti-government article on the university’s news paper so it lead to the first revolution against the military government in 1973. I hope you remembered the rest.
Thanks for the encouragement. BTW I like your Expressionist Portraits. I am a fan of Sydney Nolan’s works.
I was also educated in a Bangkok university and during my first night out in Patpong in 1985 I was almost stabbed by a pimp in an upstairs bar when we refused to pay the massively-inflated bill. We had a fight and then we successfully did a runner.
In the mid 90’s while I was a bagman between the Burmese Army and Israeli arms dealers I used to drop in a couple of times at Bangkok to pick up briefcase full of US$ from scary-looking Thais without knowing the money was from the heroin trade. The house I met them was not far from a small park which had a huge, caged Burmese Python right smack on the middle.
I am writing down these stories of my adventure now as my life insurance policy. I am dying anyway of my liver problems.
I don’t think “funny guy” is the prince’s strong suit. Even in pictures he looks like his shirts are over-starched. He’s stiff, uncomfortable, with a facial expression like he’s posing for a coin. And there’s no way the dog can be spun as good PR among the rank-and-file. He might win over the Yorkshire-in-backpack girls on Thonglor, but that’s about it. Everyone else just thinks about how much cooler Thongdaeng is.
If your standard of good statesmanship is “not turning up drunk,” then that leaves a lot of room of history’s rogues. Sobriety is a nice start, but it hardly guarantees success, or even competence.
And finally, Clinton was impeached for getting blown by a fat girl. A far cry from Thailand’s senators, MPs, amata, and generals regularly having mistresses without consequence. A better argument in the prince’s favor is that he’s only acting like every other rich Thai man.
If Thais think the prince is unworthy, then they should look to their own culture and heroes. For 60 years they’ve idolized the monogamous, mutt-owning, un-materialistic king while behaving nothing at all like him.
An extremely arrogant and naive view from Anand Panyarachun.
In order to measure the royalty concretely, we need to scrap the lese majeste law (and the computer crime act) and run a referendum. Only that will tell if the royalty to the King is really a 95% high.
I personally doubt it. I think it might be around 70-80%. The events after the coup surely has brought the popularity of the institution down.
[…] process, which is extremely taboo in Thailand. Please do head over and read it yourself. Also see The New Mandala’s analysis of the Economist article. -Jodi VN:F [1.8.5_1061]Rate this article:please wait…Rating: 0.0/5 (0 […]
WLH@17 – well said.
Severeal other points should be made in the CP’s favour :
1) his sense of humour – we’re all enjoying, including the CP’s critics on this forum – the delightfully humourous saga of FuFu.
This shows the CP is a true Thai, with a true Thai’s love of sanook.
Such a love of sanook will endear him to his loyal subjects, of whom I’ve found plenty who are fans of the CP.
2) FuFu could be an intelligent, subtle dig at other dog lovers !
3)Among all the many critics of the CP on this web-site, not a single one has said that the CP EVER turned up drunk for an official functiion.
But Russian President Boris Yeltsin frequently did – remember him being unable to get out of his plane to meet the Irish PM ? Soviet leader Brezhnev was frequently drunk on duty, according to Gromyko. A top Japanese Minister recently resigned drunk.
The “greatest Englishman ever” – Winston Churchill was frequently drunk, especially while working in bed !!
4) And as for the CP’s bed-room escapades – just ask Monica Lewinsky for a comparison !!
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Bangkok or bust, Part 1
Thanks, Nick – well done as usual. It was worth the wait to see the results of your efforts and read your first-hand impressions of what you actually saw and heard. I wonder how long we’ll have to wait for the suggestions that you have “coloured” your coverage…..
Do you have any notion of who the mob-handed photographers/cameramen were or where they were from? Thai media or freelancers or what? A shame, in a way, that you couldn’t get shots of their behaviour – but I think I appreciate the practicalities of how difficult it is to get that angle in such a scrum.
As you noted, looking at mainstream Thai media’s coverage in terms of both pictures and copy one could imagine that they attended a wholly different event.
Speculation on the popularity of the Thai monarchy
As other posters have said, this is the key point, and it should be repeated far and wide: it is impossible to judge how popular the king actually is while the lese majeste law is in force.
If the lese majeste law were to be repealed, and an end put to the 24/7/365 propaganda, it is likely that a different picture of the king would emerge.
After every journalist writes, “the revered Thai king”, they should always add the disclaimer: “the penalty for criticism of the king or the royal family is 15 years imprisonment”.
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
Thank you Nick, for sharing your experiences and these amazing images. You are doing us all an incredible service.
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
really excellent reporting… thank you Nick…
if military “intelligence” has any then they must have seen the same as you and while their bosses are no doubt strategising their responses they must be aware of the large popular pressure that has built against them
I have assumed that a critical break will occur if soldiers defy their commanders… presumably the generals are being very careful about issuing orders that may not be obeyed… perhaps Prayuth, if he is as rabid as painted may make the mistake?
movements by the Prince and Khun Visanu(?) and perhaps if Prem is really sick/out of action must be upping the ante for those “amart” that want a united front against the upstarts from the lower classes
Sulaiman on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
WLH#21 & Tench#22 – apparently the CP has a greater sense of humour than you two !
Thai style democracy?
Well, ok – if you want to call it a draw, fine.
If you want to believe that “initiating” ( (i.e. promising) a huge project like that means much compared to actually getting it finished (the hard part) – well you would probably have believed one of Transport Minister Thaksin’s many other boasts: that he would solve Bangkok’s traffic problems in six months.
That’s fine too – just don’t expect me to agree with you: there are already too many apologists around, both paid and unpaid, for Takky.
Ji Ungpakorn on Thailand’s second coup
[…] “camisas rojas” y algunos analistas calificaron aquello como un “golpe de estado judicial”, acusaci├│n que no carece de fundamento: […]
The scourge of Burma, Part 6
Tip of the bling? Why don’t you go sit on it!
More from Ferrara on Thai politics
chris beale – 3
Sarit wasnt oust, he died from liver related complication due to heavy drinking (although there’s some rumor about the palace poisoning him) and Tanorm and Prapart took over the government after 1963 and proven to be an ineffective and corrupted so by 1968 the revolution stream cough on and by 1973 the revolution stream was at it climax when 9 (or 12? I dont recall) got expel from the Ramkumhang university from publishing an anti-government article on the university’s news paper so it lead to the first revolution against the military government in 1973. I hope you remembered the rest.
The scourge of Burma, Part 5
Chris Coles,
Thanks for the encouragement. BTW I like your Expressionist Portraits. I am a fan of Sydney Nolan’s works.
I was also educated in a Bangkok university and during my first night out in Patpong in 1985 I was almost stabbed by a pimp in an upstairs bar when we refused to pay the massively-inflated bill. We had a fight and then we successfully did a runner.
In the mid 90’s while I was a bagman between the Burmese Army and Israeli arms dealers I used to drop in a couple of times at Bangkok to pick up briefcase full of US$ from scary-looking Thais without knowing the money was from the heroin trade. The house I met them was not far from a small park which had a huge, caged Burmese Python right smack on the middle.
I am writing down these stories of my adventure now as my life insurance policy. I am dying anyway of my liver problems.
Sulaiman on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
Chris Beale: That flapping sound is WLH’s post going over your head.
More from Ferrara on Thai politics
Sarit ousted in 1963? That’s one way of looking at death….
Sulaiman on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
Chris Beale: Are you being ironic?
I don’t think “funny guy” is the prince’s strong suit. Even in pictures he looks like his shirts are over-starched. He’s stiff, uncomfortable, with a facial expression like he’s posing for a coin. And there’s no way the dog can be spun as good PR among the rank-and-file. He might win over the Yorkshire-in-backpack girls on Thonglor, but that’s about it. Everyone else just thinks about how much cooler Thongdaeng is.
If your standard of good statesmanship is “not turning up drunk,” then that leaves a lot of room of history’s rogues. Sobriety is a nice start, but it hardly guarantees success, or even competence.
And finally, Clinton was impeached for getting blown by a fat girl. A far cry from Thailand’s senators, MPs, amata, and generals regularly having mistresses without consequence. A better argument in the prince’s favor is that he’s only acting like every other rich Thai man.
If Thais think the prince is unworthy, then they should look to their own culture and heroes. For 60 years they’ve idolized the monogamous, mutt-owning, un-materialistic king while behaving nothing at all like him.
Speculation on the popularity of the Thai monarchy
An extremely arrogant and naive view from Anand Panyarachun.
In order to measure the royalty concretely, we need to scrap the lese majeste law (and the computer crime act) and run a referendum. Only that will tell if the royalty to the King is really a 95% high.
I personally doubt it. I think it might be around 70-80%. The events after the coup surely has brought the popularity of the institution down.
The Economist stomps on some media taboos
[…] process, which is extremely taboo in Thailand. Please do head over and read it yourself. Also see The New Mandala’s analysis of the Economist article. -Jodi VN:F [1.8.5_1061]Rate this article:please wait…Rating: 0.0/5 (0 […]
Review of Agrarian Angst and Rural Resistance
Are Thailand’s farmer Red-Shirts ?
See :
http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/economics/172056/farmers-threaten-to-stop-growing-rice
Sulaiman on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
WLH@17 – well said.
Severeal other points should be made in the CP’s favour :
1) his sense of humour – we’re all enjoying, including the CP’s critics on this forum – the delightfully humourous saga of FuFu.
This shows the CP is a true Thai, with a true Thai’s love of sanook.
Such a love of sanook will endear him to his loyal subjects, of whom I’ve found plenty who are fans of the CP.
2) FuFu could be an intelligent, subtle dig at other dog lovers !
3)Among all the many critics of the CP on this web-site, not a single one has said that the CP EVER turned up drunk for an official functiion.
But Russian President Boris Yeltsin frequently did – remember him being unable to get out of his plane to meet the Irish PM ? Soviet leader Brezhnev was frequently drunk on duty, according to Gromyko. A top Japanese Minister recently resigned drunk.
The “greatest Englishman ever” – Winston Churchill was frequently drunk, especially while working in bed !!
4) And as for the CP’s bed-room escapades – just ask Monica Lewinsky for a comparison !!
Speculation on the popularity of the Thai monarchy
Speculation cannot be considerably objective unless the LM laws and propaganda are done away with.
More from Ferrara on Thai politics
Somsak@1 – do you mean the 1958, not the 1968, Constitution ?
Was n’t Sarit ousted in 1963 – the year I first visited Thailand ?
Next: Nick Nostitz on the recent Bangkok protests
In anticipation of Nick’s coverage – which for sure will be of his usual high standard – I draw everyone’s attention to the article below, which gives an interesting and unusual analysis of some of the complexities of this conflict :
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/03/24/national/The-reds-are-emerging-active-citizens-anthropologi-30125434.html