the test did not show that the device “might detect bombs” in some cases
it showed there was no evidence that the device ever detected bombs
the result was as good as if the operator tried to guess where the bombs were without having any device at all
so the result means that (ignoring financial and corrupt dealing issues):
1 the device is worthless and
2 the army would achieve the same results by asking its soldiers for their best guess on whether there is a bomb or not (it might be better because the soldiers could focus their minds on the real objective)
an advantage for the sellers of the fake equipment is that:
1 when there is a success then people are alive to claim the success
2 when the operator fails to guess there is a bomb the explosion destroys the evidence and there are less people to complain about the failure
lao is poorer and poorer everyday because those brainless corrupted
government that run the country.it would be better off if the people
would just wake their ass up and kicked out those little brain peanut head government out and let the real lao people here in america run it for them i would definetly guarantee you those no brain mindless
government would crawled on their knees to stop embarrassed them.
our people had enough with these screw up no brain and deaf ear governments.too many freaking promises and no action shows.stop all these bull crap and do was is right for the country you crooked
little pieces of crap.too many nation meeting with world leaders and no job gets done.big deal sea games got stadium but what about your stomach did you feel it enough food and sleep well at night?please write it like this then the damn government of lao will listen.tell them
we’re tired of their bullshit and it’s time to rebuilt our country and education system.and stop running those mouth of theirs and start put feeling that pain that put people putting up their asses.many years
have past and a change has beeen made but still no enough to make me our the people of lao happy today we need more.
As the giant coiled spring of resentment, anger and aspiration gets more and more compressed the more energy it will release when it finally gets free.
Very soon Thaksin will be the ONLY hope the Thai elite will have in stopping a full blown insurrection.
So, at the moment, this is down to how much will Thailand have to pay to save Prem’s face.
Civil War? Revolution?
And don’t for a moment imagine that compromises can’t be made.
They will be.
The only question is will it be before or after the spring is released?
This sign is probably up there because some herbal-tea drinking NGO activists sponsored it. It’s the same in Luang Prabang with the ‘Smoke Free World Heritage’ campaign.
“To avoid this kind of escalations I should never say anything that could be construed as being in defense of either the coup or monarchy or LM law ….”
Oh come on, Stang! Read the responses — it’s not your point of view that’s annoying; it’s the complete lack of factual support you give for anything you say.
And please don’t blame the people who respond to your nonsense for taking up space.
This was one of the liveliest events the FCCT had in a long time, and i thoroughly enjoyed the evening (even though i would have wished that Panitan would have stayed on and get out of his shell as government spokesman, and taken part in the later discussion).
I loved Frederico’s very provocative speech. Many great questions were asked to the panelists.
When do we get Sondhi L. and one of the Red Shirt leaders at the same panel? 😉
The nuclear club can blackball any aspiring member all they like. If I were in the generals’ shoes, like any Burmese nationalist worth his salt, I would certainly go for nuclear capability.
N Korea is a case in point. You got the nuke, you don’t get bullied, bombed and invaded so easily. In the case of the Burmese junta, it would definitely serve as a good deterrent against meddlesome foreigners interfering in its internal affairs – minding its own business of happily exploiting and oppressing its own people, and nonchalantly violating human rights.
Statement by
Thai Red Australia Group for Democracy
Oppose coups and human rights abuses by the Thai military and government!
We are concerned about recent rumours from the military, and their installed government, about a possible new coup in Thailand. This follows the previous and very damaging coup in September 2006, which toppled an elected government and resulted in the political and economic crisis which persists up to today. A new coup would usher in a brutal crackdown against the Democracy Movement and all those who stand against the army. The Thai military has consistently used violence and threats of violence against its opponents with the lame excuse that it is defending national security, peace and the Monarchy. In April last year the army shot down pro-Democracy activists in the streets of Bangkok. Yet the present unrest is not due to the pro-Democracy mass movement (the Red Shirts), but it is due to the illegal actions of the military and all those who oppose democracy. These undemocratic elite forces want to attack universal suffrage and basic human rights in order to maintain their power and corrupt privileges. This corruption and authoritarianism has been exposed by the Democracy Movement in a number of land grab cases. The double standards in law that are applied by the dictatorship have also been exposed by the movement and in the recent Human Rights Watch report.
The Thai Red Australia Group for Democracy is extremely concerned about the freedom, Democracy, human rights and safety of the Thai people. If another coup takes place there will be tragic loss of life. Given that millions of Thai citizens are prepared to defend Democracy, it can only result in a civil war between the army and the people. In order to try to avoid tragic losses and in order to defend Democracy, we declare that:
1. In the event of a coup and any crackdown by the military, we shall assemble, with all freedom loving people, at Archibald Fountain, Hyde Park, Sydney, near St. James railway station in order to show our opposition to such actions and expose the brutality of the dictatorship. We shall do all in our power to oppose a coup.
2. The Thai Red Australia Group for Democracy, together with pro-Democracy Thais throughout the World, will do all in our power to support the actions of those fighting for Democracy inside Thailand.
Thai Red Australia Group for Democracy
14 February 2010
Note We shall assemble immediately at 10 am in the event of a coup.
Further details: 040 1448370, 040 6979889, 040 8474090,041 3955320
I don’t normally come to NM, but having read this post, I’m compelled to say something here. I watched this SOAS- Thai Embassy talk from a cell phone’s record of a friend who (sneakily) got most of the talk. I’ve got to say that the real event is quite different from all the reports I read on NM. I guess its like everything else that you can play back- ten people see it and interpret it differently. I urge every one who weren’t there to try to get a tape of the vdo (or a cell phone vid like my friend’s-sorry can’t distribute) and see it, and judge it for yourself.
As for Professor Duncan McCargo’s remark of pragmatism, which this poster seems to champion, from what I watched, the one who can’t really make up his mind to choose either is McCargo himself. Its quite sad to see the professor tagging along with the organizers (pragmatism) at the beginning of the talk, and suddenly changed his attitude (to be yesss ‘critical’) when the mood among the audience started to swing to an opposition to the panellists.
Without doubt, the people deserve highest respects and congratulations are the brave ones who asked those critical questions. The third woman questioner, whom Cameron Belay, the blog writer, pitied, to my opinion, was a dignified person. She began with a sentence of ‘I’m a poor woman…..’ and went on to give a though criticism on Professor Bawonsak Uwanno. For some, her remark is a personal attack (and her limited English didn’t please the ears of the more eloquent ones), but for many its an honest condemnation of the military coup and many who helped to make it happen. For me, she spoke with substance as the outcome after such coup has affected her life-it took her democratic rights away. Again I urge you people to watch the tape of this event yourself.
Thais ‘aren’t familar with having such discussions’- I guess Cameron Belay has little understanding about Thais and Thailand. Belay can keep his holier than thou attitude to himself. Its embarrassing to read a view of a “civilized” and “politically mature” farang like his.
Ribbit, thank you Dylan. I accept the award on behalf of all existential amphibians. As for painstaking, being a frog it is indeed hard to type. Thank you, thank you.
A reliable source has told me that much of the “frozen” assests have already been spent – around 50% – by men with guns, so that $2.3 million figure will be significantly reduced. The real question may be: What have those funds been spent on thus far?
Registering similar sentiments as a few of you… as a devoted reader and (very) occasional commenter, I feel NM has an editorial duty to ensure certain voices don’t over-power others and monopolize the discussion, politcal views aside. This is not censorship. There’s a plethora of information to be found on the Blogosphere, much of it in comments sections. But, personally, I find it discouraging when this happens; I don’t even want to bother reading – the same reason I can’t read the BK Post and/or Nation Letters to the Editor sections anymore.
If NM wants to act as the quality control at the nut factory, that’s fine by me; we buy tins of mixed nuts for a reason – the varity of flavors – but if the tin was always filled with mostly brazil nuts, people would cease to purchase. Nobody likes brazil nuts (sorry Brazilians, it’s just a fact).
Somsak and Srithanonchai make the same point about McCargo that I did on an earlier report on SOAS. If the reporting of his comments is correct, he is sounding like one of the former older doyens of Thai studies complaining that things have changed so much. I recall David Wilson lamenting the changes during the 1973-6 period. Maybe Professor McCargo can say more?
I also read it in PDF form and have to say I didn’t find it boring at all. It isn’t a book with all the trappings of an academic book, but it is a “good read.” It is fast paced and a relatively easy read, without being as dry as dust like many academic books. I could see use for it in classes as a way of getting discussion going and then having students use it as a basis for their own research and further reading. It is useful to have well-written and accessible books for students.
To be honest, if it can’t be distributed in Thailand, that is a measure of how things have deteriorated since the coup. If it isn’t sold in Thailand, it’ll be translated by some good soul and be available from the web.
[…] Najib will definitely not last a term unless he tames the greedy warlords within his party, Malay fundamentalists and address issues raised in the PERC report. GREG LOPEZ is a PhD scholar at the Crawford School of Economics and Government, Australian National University. This article first appeared in The New Mandala. […]
Khun Panitan was asked how the Thai government plans to use the portion of Thaksin’s seized assets that are seized. He basically shrugged the question off.
Will the answer emerge from next week’s ruling? I’m not sure. But the judiciary/Abhisit government will need to supply an answer soon — more and more Thais will be wondering the same.
Anyone have any insight into this? $2.3 billion is no joke.
By the way, I should say that the quote I included above wasn’t placed there as a way to badmouth the unnamed publisher. In fact, I wrote back thanking him for his honesty. The response I received in turn was:
“I can well imagine the dance that some of my colleagues here have done in response to your proposal.”
I should also add that I don’t know for a fact whether the book will or will not be distributed in Thailand. This is what I told people at the FCCT last night; I simply said that we are working on it but we are not sure. Others have made the inference that it likely will not. Of course, I hope they are wrong.
That having been said, I would like to thank Srithanonchai for taking the time to read the text (really, I don’t mean it sarcastically). I am disappointed you feel that time could have been put to better use, but it would have been pretty unrealistic on my part to expect that everyone would like it.
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Army defiance
the test did not show that the device “might detect bombs” in some cases
it showed there was no evidence that the device ever detected bombs
the result was as good as if the operator tried to guess where the bombs were without having any device at all
so the result means that (ignoring financial and corrupt dealing issues):
1 the device is worthless and
2 the army would achieve the same results by asking its soldiers for their best guess on whether there is a bomb or not (it might be better because the soldiers could focus their minds on the real objective)
an advantage for the sellers of the fake equipment is that:
1 when there is a success then people are alive to claim the success
2 when the operator fails to guess there is a bomb the explosion destroys the evidence and there are less people to complain about the failure
Laos too poor to get any poorer
lao is poorer and poorer everyday because those brainless corrupted
government that run the country.it would be better off if the people
would just wake their ass up and kicked out those little brain peanut head government out and let the real lao people here in america run it for them i would definetly guarantee you those no brain mindless
government would crawled on their knees to stop embarrassed them.
our people had enough with these screw up no brain and deaf ear governments.too many freaking promises and no action shows.stop all these bull crap and do was is right for the country you crooked
little pieces of crap.too many nation meeting with world leaders and no job gets done.big deal sea games got stadium but what about your stomach did you feel it enough food and sleep well at night?please write it like this then the damn government of lao will listen.tell them
we’re tired of their bullshit and it’s time to rebuilt our country and education system.and stop running those mouth of theirs and start put feeling that pain that put people putting up their asses.many years
have past and a change has beeen made but still no enough to make me our the people of lao happy today we need more.
An alternative take on the SOAS event
As the giant coiled spring of resentment, anger and aspiration gets more and more compressed the more energy it will release when it finally gets free.
Very soon Thaksin will be the ONLY hope the Thai elite will have in stopping a full blown insurrection.
So, at the moment, this is down to how much will Thailand have to pay to save Prem’s face.
Civil War? Revolution?
And don’t for a moment imagine that compromises can’t be made.
They will be.
The only question is will it be before or after the spring is released?
No incense?
This sign is probably up there because some herbal-tea drinking NGO activists sponsored it. It’s the same in Luang Prabang with the ‘Smoke Free World Heritage’ campaign.
What you see on New Mandala
One interesting aside to this is that I took time to leave several comments on StanG’s own moderated blog that opposed his line.
Not one of them appeared.
The guy is not part of any kind of informed debate and is completely intolerant of anything other than his own fantasy world viewpoint.
And what StanG has been very successful in doing is diverting a progressive discussion about Thai politics onto himself.
I’d delete this entire thread and just carefully moderate all his future comments – binning anything the merest hint of trolling.
What you see on New Mandala
“To avoid this kind of escalations I should never say anything that could be construed as being in defense of either the coup or monarchy or LM law ….”
Oh come on, Stang! Read the responses — it’s not your point of view that’s annoying; it’s the complete lack of factual support you give for anything you say.
And please don’t blame the people who respond to your nonsense for taking up space.
Ferrara et al, at the FCCT
This was one of the liveliest events the FCCT had in a long time, and i thoroughly enjoyed the evening (even though i would have wished that Panitan would have stayed on and get out of his shell as government spokesman, and taken part in the later discussion).
I loved Frederico’s very provocative speech. Many great questions were asked to the panelists.
When do we get Sondhi L. and one of the Red Shirt leaders at the same panel? 😉
More on Burmese nukes
The nuclear club can blackball any aspiring member all they like. If I were in the generals’ shoes, like any Burmese nationalist worth his salt, I would certainly go for nuclear capability.
N Korea is a case in point. You got the nuke, you don’t get bullied, bombed and invaded so easily. In the case of the Burmese junta, it would definitely serve as a good deterrent against meddlesome foreigners interfering in its internal affairs – minding its own business of happily exploiting and oppressing its own people, and nonchalantly violating human rights.
“Red in the land”
Statement by
Thai Red Australia Group for Democracy
Oppose coups and human rights abuses by the Thai military and government!
We are concerned about recent rumours from the military, and their installed government, about a possible new coup in Thailand. This follows the previous and very damaging coup in September 2006, which toppled an elected government and resulted in the political and economic crisis which persists up to today. A new coup would usher in a brutal crackdown against the Democracy Movement and all those who stand against the army. The Thai military has consistently used violence and threats of violence against its opponents with the lame excuse that it is defending national security, peace and the Monarchy. In April last year the army shot down pro-Democracy activists in the streets of Bangkok. Yet the present unrest is not due to the pro-Democracy mass movement (the Red Shirts), but it is due to the illegal actions of the military and all those who oppose democracy. These undemocratic elite forces want to attack universal suffrage and basic human rights in order to maintain their power and corrupt privileges. This corruption and authoritarianism has been exposed by the Democracy Movement in a number of land grab cases. The double standards in law that are applied by the dictatorship have also been exposed by the movement and in the recent Human Rights Watch report.
The Thai Red Australia Group for Democracy is extremely concerned about the freedom, Democracy, human rights and safety of the Thai people. If another coup takes place there will be tragic loss of life. Given that millions of Thai citizens are prepared to defend Democracy, it can only result in a civil war between the army and the people. In order to try to avoid tragic losses and in order to defend Democracy, we declare that:
1. In the event of a coup and any crackdown by the military, we shall assemble, with all freedom loving people, at Archibald Fountain, Hyde Park, Sydney, near St. James railway station in order to show our opposition to such actions and expose the brutality of the dictatorship. We shall do all in our power to oppose a coup.
2. The Thai Red Australia Group for Democracy, together with pro-Democracy Thais throughout the World, will do all in our power to support the actions of those fighting for Democracy inside Thailand.
Thai Red Australia Group for Democracy
14 February 2010
Note We shall assemble immediately at 10 am in the event of a coup.
Further details: 040 1448370, 040 6979889, 040 8474090,041 3955320
An alternative take on the SOAS event
I don’t normally come to NM, but having read this post, I’m compelled to say something here. I watched this SOAS- Thai Embassy talk from a cell phone’s record of a friend who (sneakily) got most of the talk. I’ve got to say that the real event is quite different from all the reports I read on NM. I guess its like everything else that you can play back- ten people see it and interpret it differently. I urge every one who weren’t there to try to get a tape of the vdo (or a cell phone vid like my friend’s-sorry can’t distribute) and see it, and judge it for yourself.
As for Professor Duncan McCargo’s remark of pragmatism, which this poster seems to champion, from what I watched, the one who can’t really make up his mind to choose either is McCargo himself. Its quite sad to see the professor tagging along with the organizers (pragmatism) at the beginning of the talk, and suddenly changed his attitude (to be yesss ‘critical’) when the mood among the audience started to swing to an opposition to the panellists.
Without doubt, the people deserve highest respects and congratulations are the brave ones who asked those critical questions. The third woman questioner, whom Cameron Belay, the blog writer, pitied, to my opinion, was a dignified person. She began with a sentence of ‘I’m a poor woman…..’ and went on to give a though criticism on Professor Bawonsak Uwanno. For some, her remark is a personal attack (and her limited English didn’t please the ears of the more eloquent ones), but for many its an honest condemnation of the military coup and many who helped to make it happen. For me, she spoke with substance as the outcome after such coup has affected her life-it took her democratic rights away. Again I urge you people to watch the tape of this event yourself.
Thais ‘aren’t familar with having such discussions’- I guess Cameron Belay has little understanding about Thais and Thailand. Belay can keep his holier than thou attitude to himself. Its embarrassing to read a view of a “civilized” and “politically mature” farang like his.
There’s no use crying over dammed rivers
Oh.. ‘nominate’.. and I thought I had won something. But, alas no. Jumping the dam on that one. It’s only natural for me.
There’s no use crying over dammed rivers
Ribbit, thank you Dylan. I accept the award on behalf of all existential amphibians. As for painstaking, being a frog it is indeed hard to type. Thank you, thank you.
Ferrara et al, at the FCCT
@Patrick
A reliable source has told me that much of the “frozen” assests have already been spent – around 50% – by men with guns, so that $2.3 million figure will be significantly reduced. The real question may be: What have those funds been spent on thus far?
What you see on New Mandala
Registering similar sentiments as a few of you… as a devoted reader and (very) occasional commenter, I feel NM has an editorial duty to ensure certain voices don’t over-power others and monopolize the discussion, politcal views aside. This is not censorship. There’s a plethora of information to be found on the Blogosphere, much of it in comments sections. But, personally, I find it discouraging when this happens; I don’t even want to bother reading – the same reason I can’t read the BK Post and/or Nation Letters to the Editor sections anymore.
If NM wants to act as the quality control at the nut factory, that’s fine by me; we buy tins of mixed nuts for a reason – the varity of flavors – but if the tin was always filled with mostly brazil nuts, people would cease to purchase. Nobody likes brazil nuts (sorry Brazilians, it’s just a fact).
An alternative take on the SOAS event
Somsak and Srithanonchai make the same point about McCargo that I did on an earlier report on SOAS. If the reporting of his comments is correct, he is sounding like one of the former older doyens of Thai studies complaining that things have changed so much. I recall David Wilson lamenting the changes during the 1973-6 period. Maybe Professor McCargo can say more?
Getting published in Thai Studies
I also read it in PDF form and have to say I didn’t find it boring at all. It isn’t a book with all the trappings of an academic book, but it is a “good read.” It is fast paced and a relatively easy read, without being as dry as dust like many academic books. I could see use for it in classes as a way of getting discussion going and then having students use it as a basis for their own research and further reading. It is useful to have well-written and accessible books for students.
To be honest, if it can’t be distributed in Thailand, that is a measure of how things have deteriorated since the coup. If it isn’t sold in Thailand, it’ll be translated by some good soul and be available from the web.
Ferrara et al, at the FCCT
Chris, your voice seem the only one discussing it. I need more convincing of this Issarn breakaway crisis.
Is Najib On His Way Out? Part II
[…] Najib will definitely not last a term unless he tames the greedy warlords within his party, Malay fundamentalists and address issues raised in the PERC report. GREG LOPEZ is a PhD scholar at the Crawford School of Economics and Government, Australian National University. This article first appeared in The New Mandala. […]
Ferrara et al, at the FCCT
Khun Panitan was asked how the Thai government plans to use the portion of Thaksin’s seized assets that are seized. He basically shrugged the question off.
Will the answer emerge from next week’s ruling? I’m not sure. But the judiciary/Abhisit government will need to supply an answer soon — more and more Thais will be wondering the same.
Anyone have any insight into this? $2.3 billion is no joke.
Getting published in Thai Studies
By the way, I should say that the quote I included above wasn’t placed there as a way to badmouth the unnamed publisher. In fact, I wrote back thanking him for his honesty. The response I received in turn was:
“I can well imagine the dance that some of my colleagues here have done in response to your proposal.”
I should also add that I don’t know for a fact whether the book will or will not be distributed in Thailand. This is what I told people at the FCCT last night; I simply said that we are working on it but we are not sure. Others have made the inference that it likely will not. Of course, I hope they are wrong.
That having been said, I would like to thank Srithanonchai for taking the time to read the text (really, I don’t mean it sarcastically). I am disappointed you feel that time could have been put to better use, but it would have been pretty unrealistic on my part to expect that everyone would like it.