This is a very unsual biography. I read this page a few times before (I think) I got its message. First I didn’t get it why the author, Suwichakornpong, has to talk about cloning before he started to write the life of a statesman. On the second reading I think he doesn’t at all talk biography. I’m too young to recall this man Pin Malakul. Was he a propagandist of some sort? Stange writing, but it keeps me thinking.
Arthurson @#5 : perhaps you should remember that of all the
Founding Father signatories to America’s Declaration of Independence, only Thomas Jefferson never freed his slaves.
Congratulations for the deep insight that in your case forays into New Mandala may be wasted time. If it is a simple and uncomplicated life you desire, this indeed is the wrong place for you. May i suggest to you one of the more distant islands and lots of spliff… π
Thank you very much, the SEA Studies Mafia and the infamous Den of Conspirators/Brothel of Criminals
The relationship with Red Shirts and people of the ilk you mentioned in the Puah Thai Party is quite complicated. The Red Shirt leadership does not dominate Puah Thai, but also Puah Thai does not control the Red Shirts. Nevertheless, both need each other, and do clearly overlap.
Especially people like Panlop, Chavalit, Chalerm etc. do whatever they want, and there is nobody in the Red Shirt leadership who has any authority over them. Most in the Red Shirt leadership (especially the more intelligent and progressive quarters) distrust those dinosaurs.
The difficulty is, when you mention progressive politics, that talking progressive politics alone will not change anything. One may occupy a moral high ground, but remains inconsequential. Therefore activists choose sides, and naturally form alliances which appear the least odious to them. On both colors one can find equally dubious characters allied, even if just nominally.
The stalemate is not good for business, sorry to disagree. This is a very uncomfortable stalemate which at some point will collapse, and is disastrous for investor confidence (read today’s interview in the Bangkok Post with the man of the chambers of commerce).
Every side has already used disgusting violence in the past years of turmoil – the PAD, the Red Shirts, but also the Democrat led government and the military (Blue Shirts, Din Daeng in the early morning attack, etc.). The next incident of major violence is just a matter of time, unless the different parties enter into meaningful negotiations.
The pragmatic approach is inevitably to engage with whoever is in power i.e. the state. Only with the Burmese junta, they not only call the shots, they fire the shots much too often. Whether you end up creating a bigger monster than it already is, or manage to nurture civil society, that’s the real question. To go for the path of least resistance i.e. appeasement, and expect people to give up their fight for freedom and a just society however is out of the question. It must not strengthen the state at the expense of the people.
Perhaps more pressing to the developed world is its other dimension – the issue of proliferation which certainly needs to be addressed directly before the nuclear club acquires another unwanted member.
J1 visa sounds very sensible. The more unstable or poorer the Third World is, the greater the immigration problem is going to be. Globalisation tries to address this problem where it succeeds in developing and modernising the economy properly (not when bust quickly follows boom), but unless the ‘big city bright lights’ in the Western world begins to lose its attraction to the rest of the world, and civil wars become a thing of the past in these societies, immigration will continue to be an intractable problem to the West. It is far from helpful when it manages to abolish civil war from its lands, but continues to fight foreign wars, destabilise and split other nations, creating more dislocation and exodus of people across the globe.
Yes, it would have been better to keep the 1997 Constitution. Now we have to put up with people demanding a return to that constitution by people like Jakkrapob who sat and twiddled his thumbs while Thaksin destroyed it. Too interested in grabbing some of the Thaksin loose change and making a name for his insignificant know-nothing self, I surmise. I always find that my occasional forays into New Mandala are a complete waste of time. The SEA studies mafia around here are always prepared to look the other way while people like Jakkrapob run rings round the truth. No intellectual has ever assisted me to understand this country better than my own commonsense. – which always reminds me that many local pooyais are parasites. Armed with that knowledge, life here is a great deal less complicated. OK. That’s it! I’ll now leave you learned ones to carry on with your Jakkrapob graynjai in peace.
Right, of course, please read “led by” as “associated with.” It’s hard to argue progressive politics when in bed with old-guard power-brokers.
Major violence tends to be the last resort of a losing side. Both reds and yellows have too much to lose in terms of power base, support, and funding to roll the dice with civil war. Strangely, the entrenchment of both sides has created a detente along with the divide.
When one side looks like it’s really winning, that’s when it’s time to stock up on canned goods and liquidate baht for yuan. Until then the stalemate looks good for business.
Can I just say I love that the reds are dredging up corruption cases? I hope the yellows do the same. Imagine if the political impasse ends up airing out decades of dirty laundry. That would be progress!
I took my kids to see Jackie Chan in “The Spy Next Door” at Central World Plaza a couple days ago. After the king’s anthem, the cinema ran a video from weloveking.org that, in the form of realistic-looking ‘news footage’, depicts Thailand falling apart (schools shut down, businesses closing for lack of business, weeping women, violent street protests, choppers lurking ominously overhead, etc). It scared the h*ll out of my younger kid because he thought it was all happening for real. Very disturbing to see such a depressing video whist trying to have a nice family afternoon.
At least the new ‘creative king’ video will be positive and uplifting. Of course both videos are simply different means to the same end.
Some people are desperately trying to keep all of us little people in line.
Asia Books has seen it necessary to attach a bright yellow sign saying something like “A must-read book for all expat foreigners” to one certain book. No, not Handley…, but “In the footsteps of the King” by staunch monarchist and anti-Thaksin activist Vasit.
I fail to see what is ‘academic’ in this debate. Academic would mean to be at least aware about the narrow rationality and homogenizing will of such primitive ‘modernization’ theories. To just say democracy here, democracy there does not supply the amount of participation one would need for a functioning polity. The book is suffused with simplistic modernisation-shaming strategies.
Please take some newer political theory (what about the very American Nancy Fraser? or maybe European stile Axel Honneth?) get out of the behaviouralism of the Cold War propaganda (it seems it is alive!!! -read Ron Robin for the making of the cold war enemy and all sorts of – i was hoping – for ever gone colonial speculations). Read some of the new ‘global orthodoxy’ such as Marshall Sahlins, James Wilce, Joel Robbins etc etc etc.
Unfortunately, the only result of one hour reading this forum of selective demonization, is that I have no idea what serious scholarship on Thailand might look like.
Wow, thanks a lot New Mandala for the education about Pin. Too bad we can not clone him to have more of him, but I guess that would defeat his convictions and hurt the chances of a new generation of people like him. But then where are people like him these days. My own kid is heading into a Thai school-and god I am really scared that she will never grow up.
I forgot to explain why you can stay at home on Saturday : the event has been cancelled. Mostly I would think, for reasons outlined in my previous post. Now of course, it could be from other “pressures”, as I am sure many would like to believe. But, just like I have no concrete “proof” about the competance of the Red leaders, I am sure people who believe in the “elite conspiracy theory” will also find it hard to find absolute “proof” to substantiate their beliefs, as well.
Arthurson, you can stay at home next Saturday.
As WLH points out in his post, the reds are still, “a loosely affiliated group with factional divisions and no clear leader other than the eternally poisoned Thaksin”.
I also say, my sympathies generally lie with the grievences of many of the “foot soldiers”. But sadly, their leaders show little indication they are capable of addressing the issues so badly in need of attention.
Chavalit, Chalerm, and Panlop are part of Puah Thai Party, but as far as we can see they are not part of the Red Shirt movement, and from what we can see so far – they are not part of the Red Shirt central leadership council.
Jatuporn and Jakrapob are not scary strongmen (which the former three are without doubt), they are young politicians who came up in the TRT era.
I don’t think Anupong is capable to do such a thing. BUT, Gen. Prayudh (army’s deputy chief) is. He used to hit the Red during the Rally to Prem’s resident few years ago. Also, another player, Gen. Songkiti. (Supreme Commander) This guy was in command during the Takbai’s clash causing almost a hundred dead during transportation.
I’m a Red…(heart). So I can tell that many people are joining the UDD. I don’t care whoever here (that I know there are some from the Nation or any of those “talk-only” Thai medias) think about the Red. Whatever the Red do, it’s evil for them.
I totally agree with bringing back the 1997 Constitution but the key is also to ensure that the independent institutions, like the National Human Rights Commission, the Ombudsman, and the Election Commission of Thailand, function as truly independent and politically courageous organizations. Both the first ECT and the first NHRC commissioners did tremendous work in rooting out corrupt politicians and defending human rights — and in both cases, the politicians from both ruling and opposition parties could not wait to get rid of those commissioners (and replace them with spineless bureaucrats). The issue is accountability and respect for rights — will the Reds met that test? It seems to me that the Yellows have already failed! And certainly Thaksin “the UN is not my father” failed the human rights test numerous times when he was Prime Minister.
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Anatomy of southern Thailandβs insurgency: Some preliminary insights
Interesting.
Additional analysis of the root causes and historical context of the conflict can be found here.
Education of the clone
This is a very unsual biography. I read this page a few times before (I think) I got its message. First I didn’t get it why the author, Suwichakornpong, has to talk about cloning before he started to write the life of a statesman. On the second reading I think he doesn’t at all talk biography. I’m too young to recall this man Pin Malakul. Was he a propagandist of some sort? Stange writing, but it keeps me thinking.
“Red in the land”
Arthurson @#5 : perhaps you should remember that of all the
Founding Father signatories to America’s Declaration of Independence, only Thomas Jefferson never freed his slaves.
“Red in the land”
“Surrey Tie”
Congratulations for the deep insight that in your case forays into New Mandala may be wasted time. If it is a simple and uncomplicated life you desire, this indeed is the wrong place for you. May i suggest to you one of the more distant islands and lots of spliff… π
Thank you very much, the SEA Studies Mafia and the infamous Den of Conspirators/Brothel of Criminals
“Red in the land”
“WLH”
The relationship with Red Shirts and people of the ilk you mentioned in the Puah Thai Party is quite complicated. The Red Shirt leadership does not dominate Puah Thai, but also Puah Thai does not control the Red Shirts. Nevertheless, both need each other, and do clearly overlap.
Especially people like Panlop, Chavalit, Chalerm etc. do whatever they want, and there is nobody in the Red Shirt leadership who has any authority over them. Most in the Red Shirt leadership (especially the more intelligent and progressive quarters) distrust those dinosaurs.
The difficulty is, when you mention progressive politics, that talking progressive politics alone will not change anything. One may occupy a moral high ground, but remains inconsequential. Therefore activists choose sides, and naturally form alliances which appear the least odious to them. On both colors one can find equally dubious characters allied, even if just nominally.
The stalemate is not good for business, sorry to disagree. This is a very uncomfortable stalemate which at some point will collapse, and is disastrous for investor confidence (read today’s interview in the Bangkok Post with the man of the chambers of commerce).
Every side has already used disgusting violence in the past years of turmoil – the PAD, the Red Shirts, but also the Democrat led government and the military (Blue Shirts, Din Daeng in the early morning attack, etc.). The next incident of major violence is just a matter of time, unless the different parties enter into meaningful negotiations.
Australia’s constructive Burma engagement
Suzie Wong,
The pragmatic approach is inevitably to engage with whoever is in power i.e. the state. Only with the Burmese junta, they not only call the shots, they fire the shots much too often. Whether you end up creating a bigger monster than it already is, or manage to nurture civil society, that’s the real question. To go for the path of least resistance i.e. appeasement, and expect people to give up their fight for freedom and a just society however is out of the question. It must not strengthen the state at the expense of the people.
Perhaps more pressing to the developed world is its other dimension – the issue of proliferation which certainly needs to be addressed directly before the nuclear club acquires another unwanted member.
J1 visa sounds very sensible. The more unstable or poorer the Third World is, the greater the immigration problem is going to be. Globalisation tries to address this problem where it succeeds in developing and modernising the economy properly (not when bust quickly follows boom), but unless the ‘big city bright lights’ in the Western world begins to lose its attraction to the rest of the world, and civil wars become a thing of the past in these societies, immigration will continue to be an intractable problem to the West. It is far from helpful when it manages to abolish civil war from its lands, but continues to fight foreign wars, destabilise and split other nations, creating more dislocation and exodus of people across the globe.
“Red in the land”
Yes, it would have been better to keep the 1997 Constitution. Now we have to put up with people demanding a return to that constitution by people like Jakkrapob who sat and twiddled his thumbs while Thaksin destroyed it. Too interested in grabbing some of the Thaksin loose change and making a name for his insignificant know-nothing self, I surmise. I always find that my occasional forays into New Mandala are a complete waste of time. The SEA studies mafia around here are always prepared to look the other way while people like Jakkrapob run rings round the truth. No intellectual has ever assisted me to understand this country better than my own commonsense. – which always reminds me that many local pooyais are parasites. Armed with that knowledge, life here is a great deal less complicated. OK. That’s it! I’ll now leave you learned ones to carry on with your Jakkrapob graynjai in peace.
“Red in the land”
Nick #9:
Right, of course, please read “led by” as “associated with.” It’s hard to argue progressive politics when in bed with old-guard power-brokers.
Major violence tends to be the last resort of a losing side. Both reds and yellows have too much to lose in terms of power base, support, and funding to roll the dice with civil war. Strangely, the entrenchment of both sides has created a detente along with the divide.
When one side looks like it’s really winning, that’s when it’s time to stock up on canned goods and liquidate baht for yuan. Until then the stalemate looks good for business.
Can I just say I love that the reds are dredging up corruption cases? I hope the yellows do the same. Imagine if the political impasse ends up airing out decades of dirty laundry. That would be progress!
Thailand’s “creative king”
I took my kids to see Jackie Chan in “The Spy Next Door” at Central World Plaza a couple days ago. After the king’s anthem, the cinema ran a video from weloveking.org that, in the form of realistic-looking ‘news footage’, depicts Thailand falling apart (schools shut down, businesses closing for lack of business, weeping women, violent street protests, choppers lurking ominously overhead, etc). It scared the h*ll out of my younger kid because he thought it was all happening for real. Very disturbing to see such a depressing video whist trying to have a nice family afternoon.
At least the new ‘creative king’ video will be positive and uplifting. Of course both videos are simply different means to the same end.
Some people are desperately trying to keep all of us little people in line.
“Red in the land”
Ajarnloki, the Red Movement Leadership is very careful and responsible about their people’s safety. As for the yellows, they participate because they belong to the monarchy’s organization such as the Village Scout ΡβΠ΅Ρββ£ΡβΠΡβ£ΠΡβΠΊΡββΡβΠ½ΡβΠΡββΡβΠ·ΡβΠͺΡβ£ΠΡββΡβΠ©. But lately, information about the monarchy has spread out like a wildfire on the Internet. So the current situation is quite different from a year ago. In addition, the yellows have play politics in the appointment of their supporters to the key position in the police and the military. The yellows now have enemies who know how to use weapons. I don’t think you can mobilize the yellows again like last year. Sonthi Limthongkul would not dare to be in the open public place like before.
Thailand’s “creative king”
Asia Books has seen it necessary to attach a bright yellow sign saying something like “A must-read book for all expat foreigners” to one certain book. No, not Handley…, but “In the footsteps of the King” by staunch monarchist and anti-Thaksin activist Vasit.
Is Najib On His Way Out? Part II
[…] Read Is Najib On His Way Out (Part II) here […]
The King Never Smiles?
I fail to see what is ‘academic’ in this debate. Academic would mean to be at least aware about the narrow rationality and homogenizing will of such primitive ‘modernization’ theories. To just say democracy here, democracy there does not supply the amount of participation one would need for a functioning polity. The book is suffused with simplistic modernisation-shaming strategies.
Please take some newer political theory (what about the very American Nancy Fraser? or maybe European stile Axel Honneth?) get out of the behaviouralism of the Cold War propaganda (it seems it is alive!!! -read Ron Robin for the making of the cold war enemy and all sorts of – i was hoping – for ever gone colonial speculations). Read some of the new ‘global orthodoxy’ such as Marshall Sahlins, James Wilce, Joel Robbins etc etc etc.
Unfortunately, the only result of one hour reading this forum of selective demonization, is that I have no idea what serious scholarship on Thailand might look like.
Hasta la vista,
Education of the clone
Wow, thanks a lot New Mandala for the education about Pin. Too bad we can not clone him to have more of him, but I guess that would defeat his convictions and hurt the chances of a new generation of people like him. But then where are people like him these days. My own kid is heading into a Thai school-and god I am really scared that she will never grow up.
“Red in the land”
I forgot to explain why you can stay at home on Saturday : the event has been cancelled. Mostly I would think, for reasons outlined in my previous post. Now of course, it could be from other “pressures”, as I am sure many would like to believe. But, just like I have no concrete “proof” about the competance of the Red leaders, I am sure people who believe in the “elite conspiracy theory” will also find it hard to find absolute “proof” to substantiate their beliefs, as well.
“Red in the land”
Arthurson, you can stay at home next Saturday.
As WLH points out in his post, the reds are still, “a loosely affiliated group with factional divisions and no clear leader other than the eternally poisoned Thaksin”.
I also say, my sympathies generally lie with the grievences of many of the “foot soldiers”. But sadly, their leaders show little indication they are capable of addressing the issues so badly in need of attention.
“Red in the land”
“WLH”:
Chavalit, Chalerm, and Panlop are part of Puah Thai Party, but as far as we can see they are not part of the Red Shirt movement, and from what we can see so far – they are not part of the Red Shirt central leadership council.
Jatuporn and Jakrapob are not scary strongmen (which the former three are without doubt), they are young politicians who came up in the TRT era.
“Red in the land”
I don’t think Anupong is capable to do such a thing. BUT, Gen. Prayudh (army’s deputy chief) is. He used to hit the Red during the Rally to Prem’s resident few years ago. Also, another player, Gen. Songkiti. (Supreme Commander) This guy was in command during the Takbai’s clash causing almost a hundred dead during transportation.
I’m a Red…(heart). So I can tell that many people are joining the UDD. I don’t care whoever here (that I know there are some from the Nation or any of those “talk-only” Thai medias) think about the Red. Whatever the Red do, it’s evil for them.
“Red in the land”
I totally agree with bringing back the 1997 Constitution but the key is also to ensure that the independent institutions, like the National Human Rights Commission, the Ombudsman, and the Election Commission of Thailand, function as truly independent and politically courageous organizations. Both the first ECT and the first NHRC commissioners did tremendous work in rooting out corrupt politicians and defending human rights — and in both cases, the politicians from both ruling and opposition parties could not wait to get rid of those commissioners (and replace them with spineless bureaucrats). The issue is accountability and respect for rights — will the Reds met that test? It seems to me that the Yellows have already failed! And certainly Thaksin “the UN is not my father” failed the human rights test numerous times when he was Prime Minister.
More on Burmese nukes
Well it would be remarkable if the US was not flying drones over Myanmar’s military sites.