StanG: “the stale bread of inequalities and disenfranchised uneducated”?
It seems you are simply an armchair quarterback whose only interest is watching who’s up and who’s down in the game of politics, and you have no moral values to lead you to worry about who should be up or down.
How can analysts conduct research on the Thai domestic politics when the lese majeste law prohibits discussion about the key actor?
There is no possibility that analysts can produce meaningful findings if the the crucial dependent variable is not allowed for discussion.
Analysts can discuss about political matters of any constitutional monarchy in the world. Why can’t analysts discuss about the Thai monarchy? What is it that the Thai monarchy afraid of?
StanG – your posts here and on your web-site are by far the most optimistic.
In many ways I hope you are correct, but fear you are not. Especially as Wassana Nanuam in her from The Barracks column in Bangkok Post, seems to be writing much which blows holes in your arguments. Note particularly her 28/1/2010 article, detailing military splits.
Me thinks she knows far more than you. And is less propagandist.
“the process of removing animals from a group based on specific criteria. This is done in order to either reinforce certain desirable characteristics or to remove certain undesirable characteristics from the group.”
Culling. That’s how they keep the status quo.
This link is to the very interesting video of peace/ceasefire meeting between KNU/KNLA Peace Council and Burmese Army a couple of years ago in Pha-An, the capital of Karen State in Burma.
Lt.General Ye Myint and Lt.General Khin Zaw from Burmese Army were in the video negotiating the terms for the peace agreement with General Htay Maung (or) Htain Maung from KNU/KNLA Peace Council.
Talks are in Burmese and if anyone interested I can post the translated transcript in English later. Just let me know.
Not sure if anyone else cares, but check out minute 36:00 when he gets nostalgic for the 1973, two-door Pontiac Firebird he used to drive around. While working at KFC.
Do you have to be American to get how hilarious that is? I love it. And I want photos of Meaw in the paper hat.
In Thailand the internet is already regulated like any other media, it falls under Computer Act.
In the West they regulate piracy, it’s not infringement on freedom of speech per se but it’s still an illusion to think you are free to upload, download, or post anything you want just because you are on the Internet.
I’d be interested to know if there are any loopholes left where what is punishable in real world is not illegal on the internet. The days of “wild wild west” are long gone, they got the laws in place already and now they are busy catching up on enforcement.
Even the political drive against “double standards” stops at Surayud and leaves his 247 neighbors on the same hill in peace, why would anybody expect RFD to continue on their own and on a nationwide scale?
Since reds don’t recognize the constitution any “want” of elections is a smokescreen. They would reject the results if they don’t go their way just like they refused to take const amendments to referendum last year.
John Brown is right here – they want to lay the level playing field first.
No one knows how they are going to achieve that, and they have no clue themselves.
Btw the Winter festival has caught the imagination of the people in India. It has served to create awareness and exposure of a little known region and the road. With the major insurgent groups ULFA and NSCN under ceasefire, there are good chances of India pushing the road into Burma.
StanG, your statement, “Reds don’t want elections,” has validity since most elections that they have participated in have resulted in red cards for members and/or caused the dissolution of their party over relatively minor offenses by only a few members and causing the entire executive membership to be banned from politics for 5 years. While opposition parties (with the notable exception of Banharn’s Party) have escaped judicial punishment for similar offenses.
So until there is a level playing field, you are, as least this one time, correct.
I, however, favor elections because with each stolen election, the illegitimacy of their clique weakens.
Yellow outside, white inside? Cut and run, why don’t you?
Yes, they do tend to get the worst of both worlds. There’s an old expression in Burmese, “glean, copy but create your own”. So yes, I am against aping, and I don’t pretend to know popular culture like you do.
Dylan Grey
Whilst screaming democracy in the streets requires a lot more balls in Burma than going punk, they are by no means mutually exclusive. It may well be the same youths for all you know. Both however can be pretty ineffectual particularly in Burma with far worse consequences for demonstrating and protesting in public. And that’s not to deny that they both have their roles to play. The point is for the young not to wallow and lose themselves completely in the seductive dreamworld of pop culture.
Thank you Suzie. You beautifully and accurately articulated my feelings about the baby carriers. The word exotic is an adjective, not a socio-political label.
Despite the high-profile nature of the case and the importance of the plan put forward by the RFD, the quantity and quality of information published is not impressive.
# of forest occupants threatened : Just in the BKK Post, I’ve read 45,000 people, 45,000 household, and even 400,000 households.
The difference is great because 400,000 households represents the total number of illegal residents of legal forests as estimated in 2002 and 2004 by forest authorities (2 m people; if 5 / hh = 400,000 hh).
So who exactly is threatened? Is it like the Sanitsuda believes everyone who resides without authorisation in legal forests (2 m people)?
Or is it, as in the case of Surayud, simply those who bought land from a third party who had the authorisation to reside in a legal forests at the condition that the land be kept in his family. In the case of surayud, the land is part of a Forest Village established during the counterinsurgency period. There are, I believe, at least 1.8 m households who received these limited land rights (1.523m in ALRO*; 58,000 in Forest Village Program, 232 000 in Self-Help Settlements, etc.) . The point I want to make is that it is quite likely that 45,000 illegal transactions have taken place in these settlements (45,000 = 2,5% of 1,8 m plots; 400,000 = 22%). Thus it is plausible that the threat is directed at the second category of ‘encroachers’.
Is this politically feasible? not really.
Is it just?
Of course, if the evictee is rich urban influential person or company, the injustice is of a limited nature.
However, given the great economic changes since the 1970s, low esteem agriculture is enjoying and the limited agricultural capacity of the land typically allocated in these schemes, I wonder if members of the schemes have problems convincing their sons and daughters to accept continuing farming the plot instead of moving elsewhere?
Also, I wonder if part of the illegal transactions are part of a land consolidation strategy by farmers. Again, given the price-cost squeeze that affected most field crops in the 1980s and 1990s (but perhaps less so between 2003 and 2008?), isn’t it legitimate that a farmer residing in these schemes attempt to augment the size of his farm by buying up neighbours ? (of course, he could always rent in).
Anyways, the plan of the RFD / MNRE is a very important subject to follow. Whether or not it will be attempted, debates about it will reveal a lot about the state of Thai forest politics.
* I do not know if illegal transactions in ALRO settlements are possible and as widespread as in Surayud’s Forest Village. If not, the people threatened are most probably those without authorisation to reside in legal forests (not equivalent to the case of Surayud).
There is “lese majeste” in Malaysia too. A young man was arrested recently for posting an article that “insulted” the former Sultan of Johor (and former Supreme Head/King) of Malaysia.
The young man has since apologised for the posting. (read here )
The offending article about the late Sultan Iskandar can be read here
Once again the brilliance and wonder of StanG’s exceptional understanding and wisdom in regard to Thailand’s present situation and future circumstances sets an impressive standard for others to follow.
I think is shameful that he is given so little respect in some of the comments.
So what is it StanG? The reds want elections or they don’t. You said they don’t and now you say they do. You’re making this up. various reds have called for the house to be dissolved umpteen times. The reds actually accuse the government of not wanting an election. For example, in his famous Times interview last November mentioned this and Abhisit and Suthep have repeatedly rejected red calls for the house to be dissolved – see the reports in November and December last year (e.g. 20 Nov in Bkk Post). If you are going to make things up, at least be a bit more inventive.
I agree with a lot of what Banana Head has written. I attend punk concerts in Yangon quite often. There are more forms of resistance than standing in the street and screaming democracy. Myanmar people have a lot of ways to resist in a restrictive culture and polity, and punk is certainly just one of them.
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Stephen B. Young on a “grand consultation”
You mean the same reds who stood under the 2007 constitution and put together a coalition government? What nonsense you write.
The return of Thailand’s old friend
StanG: “the stale bread of inequalities and disenfranchised uneducated”?
It seems you are simply an armchair quarterback whose only interest is watching who’s up and who’s down in the game of politics, and you have no moral values to lead you to worry about who should be up or down.
Google and lese majeste
How can analysts conduct research on the Thai domestic politics when the lese majeste law prohibits discussion about the key actor?
There is no possibility that analysts can produce meaningful findings if the the crucial dependent variable is not allowed for discussion.
Analysts can discuss about political matters of any constitutional monarchy in the world. Why can’t analysts discuss about the Thai monarchy? What is it that the Thai monarchy afraid of?
The return of Thailand’s old friend
StanG – your posts here and on your web-site are by far the most optimistic.
In many ways I hope you are correct, but fear you are not. Especially as Wassana Nanuam in her from The Barracks column in Bangkok Post, seems to be writing much which blows holes in your arguments. Note particularly her 28/1/2010 article, detailing military splits.
Me thinks she knows far more than you. And is less propagandist.
“Platitudes about working together”
“the process of removing animals from a group based on specific criteria. This is done in order to either reinforce certain desirable characteristics or to remove certain undesirable characteristics from the group.”
Culling. That’s how they keep the status quo.
Dave Everett and fighting for the KNLA
This link is to the very interesting video of peace/ceasefire meeting between KNU/KNLA Peace Council and Burmese Army a couple of years ago in Pha-An, the capital of Karen State in Burma.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw4K_PQNreo
Lt.General Ye Myint and Lt.General Khin Zaw from Burmese Army were in the video negotiating the terms for the peace agreement with General Htay Maung (or) Htain Maung from KNU/KNLA Peace Council.
Talks are in Burmese and if anyone interested I can post the translated transcript in English later. Just let me know.
I’m just a soul whose intentions are good …
This is actually a rough English-langauge script from a 74-minute online video rant:
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/4235122
Not sure if anyone else cares, but check out minute 36:00 when he gets nostalgic for the 1973, two-door Pontiac Firebird he used to drive around. While working at KFC.
Do you have to be American to get how hilarious that is? I love it. And I want photos of Meaw in the paper hat.
I’m just a soul whose intentions are good …
Reads like a ghost-written autobiography … but who knows.
“You must sleep well” – love that one.
Google and lese majeste
In Thailand the internet is already regulated like any other media, it falls under Computer Act.
In the West they regulate piracy, it’s not infringement on freedom of speech per se but it’s still an illusion to think you are free to upload, download, or post anything you want just because you are on the Internet.
I’d be interested to know if there are any loopholes left where what is punishable in real world is not illegal on the internet. The days of “wild wild west” are long gone, they got the laws in place already and now they are busy catching up on enforcement.
Surayud…and 449,999 of his closest friends
Even the political drive against “double standards” stops at Surayud and leaves his 247 neighbors on the same hill in peace, why would anybody expect RFD to continue on their own and on a nationwide scale?
Stephen B. Young on a “grand consultation”
Since reds don’t recognize the constitution any “want” of elections is a smokescreen. They would reject the results if they don’t go their way just like they refused to take const amendments to referendum last year.
John Brown is right here – they want to lay the level playing field first.
No one knows how they are going to achieve that, and they have no clue themselves.
The Stilwell Road
Link to some of more Siddique’s work…nuf said:)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/siddiqui/
Btw the Winter festival has caught the imagination of the people in India. It has served to create awareness and exposure of a little known region and the road. With the major insurgent groups ULFA and NSCN under ceasefire, there are good chances of India pushing the road into Burma.
Stephen B. Young on a “grand consultation”
StanG, your statement, “Reds don’t want elections,” has validity since most elections that they have participated in have resulted in red cards for members and/or caused the dissolution of their party over relatively minor offenses by only a few members and causing the entire executive membership to be banned from politics for 5 years. While opposition parties (with the notable exception of Banharn’s Party) have escaped judicial punishment for similar offenses.
So until there is a level playing field, you are, as least this one time, correct.
I, however, favor elections because with each stolen election, the illegitimacy of their clique weakens.
Yangon punks
Banana Head
Yellow outside, white inside? Cut and run, why don’t you?
Yes, they do tend to get the worst of both worlds. There’s an old expression in Burmese, “glean, copy but create your own”. So yes, I am against aping, and I don’t pretend to know popular culture like you do.
Dylan Grey
Whilst screaming democracy in the streets requires a lot more balls in Burma than going punk, they are by no means mutually exclusive. It may well be the same youths for all you know. Both however can be pretty ineffectual particularly in Burma with far worse consequences for demonstrating and protesting in public. And that’s not to deny that they both have their roles to play. The point is for the young not to wallow and lose themselves completely in the seductive dreamworld of pop culture.
Collection seeks soul mate
Thank you Suzie. You beautifully and accurately articulated my feelings about the baby carriers. The word exotic is an adjective, not a socio-political label.
Surayud…and 449,999 of his closest friends
Despite the high-profile nature of the case and the importance of the plan put forward by the RFD, the quantity and quality of information published is not impressive.
# of forest occupants threatened : Just in the BKK Post, I’ve read 45,000 people, 45,000 household, and even 400,000 households.
The difference is great because 400,000 households represents the total number of illegal residents of legal forests as estimated in 2002 and 2004 by forest authorities (2 m people; if 5 / hh = 400,000 hh).
So who exactly is threatened? Is it like the Sanitsuda believes everyone who resides without authorisation in legal forests (2 m people)?
Or is it, as in the case of Surayud, simply those who bought land from a third party who had the authorisation to reside in a legal forests at the condition that the land be kept in his family. In the case of surayud, the land is part of a Forest Village established during the counterinsurgency period. There are, I believe, at least 1.8 m households who received these limited land rights (1.523m in ALRO*; 58,000 in Forest Village Program, 232 000 in Self-Help Settlements, etc.) . The point I want to make is that it is quite likely that 45,000 illegal transactions have taken place in these settlements (45,000 = 2,5% of 1,8 m plots; 400,000 = 22%). Thus it is plausible that the threat is directed at the second category of ‘encroachers’.
Is this politically feasible? not really.
Is it just?
Of course, if the evictee is rich urban influential person or company, the injustice is of a limited nature.
However, given the great economic changes since the 1970s, low esteem agriculture is enjoying and the limited agricultural capacity of the land typically allocated in these schemes, I wonder if members of the schemes have problems convincing their sons and daughters to accept continuing farming the plot instead of moving elsewhere?
Also, I wonder if part of the illegal transactions are part of a land consolidation strategy by farmers. Again, given the price-cost squeeze that affected most field crops in the 1980s and 1990s (but perhaps less so between 2003 and 2008?), isn’t it legitimate that a farmer residing in these schemes attempt to augment the size of his farm by buying up neighbours ? (of course, he could always rent in).
Anyways, the plan of the RFD / MNRE is a very important subject to follow. Whether or not it will be attempted, debates about it will reveal a lot about the state of Thai forest politics.
* I do not know if illegal transactions in ALRO settlements are possible and as widespread as in Surayud’s Forest Village. If not, the people threatened are most probably those without authorisation to reside in legal forests (not equivalent to the case of Surayud).
Google and lese majeste
There is “lese majeste” in Malaysia too. A young man was arrested recently for posting an article that “insulted” the former Sultan of Johor (and former Supreme Head/King) of Malaysia.
The young man has since apologised for the posting. (read here )
The offending article about the late Sultan Iskandar can be read here
Stephen B. Young on a “grand consultation”
Once again the brilliance and wonder of StanG’s exceptional understanding and wisdom in regard to Thailand’s present situation and future circumstances sets an impressive standard for others to follow.
I think is shameful that he is given so little respect in some of the comments.
Stephen B. Young on a “grand consultation”
So what is it StanG? The reds want elections or they don’t. You said they don’t and now you say they do. You’re making this up. various reds have called for the house to be dissolved umpteen times. The reds actually accuse the government of not wanting an election. For example, in his famous Times interview last November mentioned this and Abhisit and Suthep have repeatedly rejected red calls for the house to be dissolved – see the reports in November and December last year (e.g. 20 Nov in Bkk Post). If you are going to make things up, at least be a bit more inventive.
Yangon punks
I agree with a lot of what Banana Head has written. I attend punk concerts in Yangon quite often. There are more forms of resistance than standing in the street and screaming democracy. Myanmar people have a lot of ways to resist in a restrictive culture and polity, and punk is certainly just one of them.