Thanks for posting the photos–now I have a cup of Joe and laugh–what better way to start the day! God only knows what was whispered (Abhisit looks like he is thinking–WTF–why the heck is this guy telling me all of this–(a venture into a certain soi last night perhaps)–why do all the farangs I meet want to tell me about that place…better just smile, nod and go along since he writes those articles against my enemy so just play along
It’s pretty unfair to accuse StanG of being “on the pay-roll of Lao PDR”, given his numerous comments which would suggest if he’s on the pay-roll of anyone, it is the PAD !
I think Giles expects too much of Heads of State.
Idi Amin for example – set a new standard. Mobuto of Zaire also.
The list goes on.
The CP should not be picked on because of a bit of skinny-dipping in a pool !!
And so what about that Japanese plane business – it’s about time somebody stood up to Japanese domineering attitudes towards South-East Asians. I commend HRH for his bravery, determination and nationalism.
As for that dog walking on foreign diplomat’s table, it shows two things :
1) HRH is a modern Royal who supports Animal Liberation.
2) He refuses to be intimidated by those diplomats from foreign powers who have been trying to intimidate Thailand right back to the Bowring Treaty !
I don’t think Professor Young should be pilloried the way he is here – he did after all grow up in Thailand, and has an immense amount of Asia knowledge and experience, albeit now aged.
On the other hand, his remarks re. Thaksin are weird, warped, and
part of the “old gentlemen’s club” mentality where the old ruling class are now almost totally out of touch with modern “Thailand”, let alone Isaarn.
If Professor Young is going to rant on against Thaksin along ethnic lines like this, he should bear in mind that Isaarn is not
“Thai” – it is LAO.
If there’s a bloodbath anti-Thaksin coup in Bangkok – and Isaarn as a result starts fighting to break free, how will the United States re-act if 16 provinces do what 13 brave colonies did – i.e. declare their independence ?
That’s far too specific for StanG. And it’s kind of in conflict with simplistic dismissals of fact. Perhaps the kind Lao guards were concerned that foreign influences might wish to harm the Hmong or otherwise diminish the reputations of Laos or Thailand. Got to guard the turf!
I am sure that far more erudite thinking than mine has refrained from commenting on Mr. (Ajarn?) Young’s visit and comments or even his physical presence.
Useful idiot might be too harsh a term. Perhaps an unwilling and unaware accomplice might be more fitting, but that too is condescending. Which, perhaps, is merely another form of flattery.
StanG: Here’s the excerpt from the SMH article on what happened when the reporters turned up at the camp. Please explain to us why you think the reporters are in the wrong. Usually it is considered desirable to seek out firsthand information.
“As soon as the Herald arrived near the front gate, our car was surrounded by uniformed soldiers who aggressively demanded to know who we were and why we were there. Members of our party were taken away for individual interrogation. Officers demanded to see our passports and our car was searched and our cameras and mobile phones examined for images of the camp. We were taken from our car and photographed.”
perhaps susie would like to pull her head out of the sand. just a little over the top even for a thai. giles should be commended on one thing at least and that is his fight for principles and what he feels is correct. that is something which is sorely missing from thailand at the moment. while he be going over the top in his critiques he is a perhaps the only light that thailand has currently for needed social change. as long as things are currently there is no room for discussion, debate, reform, change, progress, civility due to the fact that all commentary (not even criticism) is banned legally and socially. this does not bode well for country in the midst of change as crystallization and decadence of the countries institutions will have to face down change eventually. how that change takes place is the crux of what ajarn ji is alluding to. keep up the fight ajarn, your not the only voice just the only voice with a guts to use your voice.
Stephen Young is the perfect example of the useful idiot. He’s also a perfect example of the one-trick pony farang, who dedicates himself to pleasing an audience of Thais who don’t realize how low-quality his performance is. Think Clown Eckie.
“What did you expect the Sydney Morning Herald reporters to do?”
Gain access if not to the camp than to reliable sources of information on what’s going on inside there.
They could have gotten rough numbers and dates from the same security guards they pissed off but that’s not how they approach investigative journalism.
You just cannot have a head of state that the majority of people do not respect nor trust. Of course, one can rule with force but at what costs and for what. As for the elites, whoever Phumipon would propose, it still has to go through Privy Council which I don’t think will approve of Wachiralongkorn. Almost all of the top military men and police men do not respect nor trust Wachiralongkorn, but they cannot speak out.
Furthermore, he could not go out to visit anywhere in Thailand due to his health. With the kind of sickness he has, his exposure could mean life or death to him. He is at the serious stage of his illness.
In addition, his father is even afraid to go back home so he makes the hospital as the lodging. Can you imagine how many lese majeste case would be with Wachiralongkorn? It’s not about expecting, it’s about discussing facts. With Wachiralongkorn, the land will turn into fire throughout the south, the north, the northeast. At the moment, soldiers are being killed every day and schools are being burned down because the monarchy, Aphisit and the Thai State are repressive and cunning. Aphisit put the good Thais in jails, chased patriot Thais out of Thailand with lese majeste law, punished Police Chief and high ranking policemen who simply carried out their duties. Aphisit is abusing his power and the longer he is in power the deeper the conflict. With Phumipon it is already this much, with Wachiralongkorn, it will be worsen. Thailand will be governed in a harsh authoritarian manner and people will revolt. It is not an opinion, this is the fact about how majority of Thai people feel about Wachiralongkorn. That’s why I suggest a referendum option or he goes to live in Europe. Wachiralongkorn himself also doesn’t like living in Thailand, he would like to live in Germany. I write in a straightforward manner because I mean well for him and for the country.
I genuinely would like to emphasize again here that Giles Ji’s father represent what a true Thai means. He is loved and really earned the respect of the entire country and I mean the entire country. The country is proud and respect Dr. Puey Unphakorn, they like his values, what he stood for, and what he had sacrificed and done for the country. This is the kind of leader majority of Thais prefer and desire to have. One cannot force respect, respect has to be earned.
I think Giles expects a bit too much from the future King – care about this, know about that.
They are all desirable qualities but they are not requirements.
It would become a problem if such “unqualified” king started messing with politics or the government, but it’s not supposed to happen. Just imagine the public backlash.
yes, you are right. I talk about Thailand as is, with paperwork like constitutions serving mostly to keep up with Joneses. They are just inadequate to describe or regulate many aspects of power sharing.
David Brown,
It was straight from the constitution:
Section 3. The sovereign power belongs to the Thai people. The King as Head of State shall exercise such power through the National Assembly, the Council of Ministers and the Courts in accordance with the provisions of this Constitution.
Military chain of command is clear but their allegiances aren’t. Earlier you completely excluded the King, I just pointed that he is the Head of State, not the elected government. In their heads I think the chain is people (nation), king, government.
StanG: Are you on the payroll of the Lao PDR? Because you write as if you are a bought and paid for propagandist for them. What did you expect the Sydney Morning Herald reporters to do? Get official permission to visit the camp where the deported Hmong are being held? What a laugh! Unless you show up unexpected and uninvited, you won’t be allowed to get any information whatsoever. That’s how Communist totalitarian regimes work! They were lucky to get the photos and details they were able to collect. Quite a coup in my opinion. The fact that they pissed off the guards is evidence enough that there are facts about the Hmong detention the LPDR doesn’t want you or the rest of the world to know.
WLH, you have a good point! By the way, it has not been decided yet if it would be Sirinthorn or Wachiralongkorn or a new presidential system altogether. The country is in transition with many serious problems that were kept under the rug for a long time. In my opinion, the inaccurate history of the Thai politics reflects major shortcomings on the issue of epistemology and integrity of the academics in the past. This incorrect Thai political history has serious implications to the regional security issue affecting every countries in the region. I spot your creativity and wit, so I wonder if I could request you to dwell on it and write some scholarly work on Siam. I hope you agree with my request because new blood is urgently needed in the studies of Thai politics.
“On November 8, 1947, army troops seized various government installations in Bangkok. The coup, led by Lieutenant General Phin Choonhavan and Colonel Luang Katsongkhram, ousted Luang Thamrong’s government. It marked the return to power of Phibun (Plaek Phibunsongkram). At the same time, armoured cars arrived in front of Pridi’s riverside residence. However, when the troops entered, they found that Pridi had already escaped. Pridi spent a week hiding with the Navy at Admiral Sindhu Songkhramchai’s headquarters. On November 20, the statesman was spirited out of the country by British and American agents to Singapore.”
Back to Susie Wong at #51: Her comment that “Chatchai’s father, Phin Choonhavan took part in Boworadet rebellion against the 1932 Coup d’etat group.” I asked her about this, but she didn’t respond. As far as I can tell – happy to be corrected – this is not correct. It seems he was on the government side during the rebellion. Prior to 1932 he was posted to Korat, but it seems he’d moved after 1932. Any suggestions on references on the Boworadet rebellion, Thai or English?
I have now received a copy of the full judgement (thanks to an anonymous reader). Yes, I agree with you, Malaysia can and is internally strong enough to handle this affair. From legal aspect, it seems to me that the Malaysian lower courts are increasing their judiciary independence in these recent years — an observation from an outsider, that is.
Perfect logic, Hla Oo. Otherwise we’d have wars of liberation and demands for statehood by all migrant communities wherever they settle, in competition with separatist indigenous minorities. I guess it’s just a couple of centuries too late for that sort of land grab. I’d say fight for your rights but there’s a line you just don’t cross.
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The return of Thailand’s old friend
Thanks for posting the photos–now I have a cup of Joe and laugh–what better way to start the day! God only knows what was whispered (Abhisit looks like he is thinking–WTF–why the heck is this guy telling me all of this–(a venture into a certain soi last night perhaps)–why do all the farangs I meet want to tell me about that place…better just smile, nod and go along since he writes those articles against my enemy so just play along
oh it’s all in good jest isn’t it
Mahathir squandered RM100 billion says new book
Hal Hill’s (of ANU) review of Barry Wain’s book for the Wall Street Journal.
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
It’s pretty unfair to accuse StanG of being “on the pay-roll of Lao PDR”, given his numerous comments which would suggest if he’s on the pay-roll of anyone, it is the PAD !
Giles Ji Ungpakorn on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
I think Giles expects too much of Heads of State.
Idi Amin for example – set a new standard. Mobuto of Zaire also.
The list goes on.
The CP should not be picked on because of a bit of skinny-dipping in a pool !!
And so what about that Japanese plane business – it’s about time somebody stood up to Japanese domineering attitudes towards South-East Asians. I commend HRH for his bravery, determination and nationalism.
As for that dog walking on foreign diplomat’s table, it shows two things :
1) HRH is a modern Royal who supports Animal Liberation.
2) He refuses to be intimidated by those diplomats from foreign powers who have been trying to intimidate Thailand right back to the Bowring Treaty !
The return of Thailand’s old friend
I don’t think Professor Young should be pilloried the way he is here – he did after all grow up in Thailand, and has an immense amount of Asia knowledge and experience, albeit now aged.
On the other hand, his remarks re. Thaksin are weird, warped, and
part of the “old gentlemen’s club” mentality where the old ruling class are now almost totally out of touch with modern “Thailand”, let alone Isaarn.
If Professor Young is going to rant on against Thaksin along ethnic lines like this, he should bear in mind that Isaarn is not
“Thai” – it is LAO.
If there’s a bloodbath anti-Thaksin coup in Bangkok – and Isaarn as a result starts fighting to break free, how will the United States re-act if 16 provinces do what 13 brave colonies did – i.e. declare their independence ?
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
That’s far too specific for StanG. And it’s kind of in conflict with simplistic dismissals of fact. Perhaps the kind Lao guards were concerned that foreign influences might wish to harm the Hmong or otherwise diminish the reputations of Laos or Thailand. Got to guard the turf!
The return of Thailand’s old friend
I am sure that far more erudite thinking than mine has refrained from commenting on Mr. (Ajarn?) Young’s visit and comments or even his physical presence.
Useful idiot might be too harsh a term. Perhaps an unwilling and unaware accomplice might be more fitting, but that too is condescending. Which, perhaps, is merely another form of flattery.
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
StanG: Here’s the excerpt from the SMH article on what happened when the reporters turned up at the camp. Please explain to us why you think the reporters are in the wrong. Usually it is considered desirable to seek out firsthand information.
“As soon as the Herald arrived near the front gate, our car was surrounded by uniformed soldiers who aggressively demanded to know who we were and why we were there. Members of our party were taken away for individual interrogation. Officers demanded to see our passports and our car was searched and our cameras and mobile phones examined for images of the camp. We were taken from our car and photographed.”
Giles Ji Ungpakorn on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
perhaps susie would like to pull her head out of the sand. just a little over the top even for a thai. giles should be commended on one thing at least and that is his fight for principles and what he feels is correct. that is something which is sorely missing from thailand at the moment. while he be going over the top in his critiques he is a perhaps the only light that thailand has currently for needed social change. as long as things are currently there is no room for discussion, debate, reform, change, progress, civility due to the fact that all commentary (not even criticism) is banned legally and socially. this does not bode well for country in the midst of change as crystallization and decadence of the countries institutions will have to face down change eventually. how that change takes place is the crux of what ajarn ji is alluding to. keep up the fight ajarn, your not the only voice just the only voice with a guts to use your voice.
The return of Thailand’s old friend
Stephen Young is the perfect example of the useful idiot. He’s also a perfect example of the one-trick pony farang, who dedicates himself to pleasing an audience of Thais who don’t realize how low-quality his performance is. Think Clown Eckie.
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
“What did you expect the Sydney Morning Herald reporters to do?”
Gain access if not to the camp than to reliable sources of information on what’s going on inside there.
They could have gotten rough numbers and dates from the same security guards they pissed off but that’s not how they approach investigative journalism.
Giles Ji Ungpakorn on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
You just cannot have a head of state that the majority of people do not respect nor trust. Of course, one can rule with force but at what costs and for what. As for the elites, whoever Phumipon would propose, it still has to go through Privy Council which I don’t think will approve of Wachiralongkorn. Almost all of the top military men and police men do not respect nor trust Wachiralongkorn, but they cannot speak out.
Furthermore, he could not go out to visit anywhere in Thailand due to his health. With the kind of sickness he has, his exposure could mean life or death to him. He is at the serious stage of his illness.
In addition, his father is even afraid to go back home so he makes the hospital as the lodging. Can you imagine how many lese majeste case would be with Wachiralongkorn? It’s not about expecting, it’s about discussing facts. With Wachiralongkorn, the land will turn into fire throughout the south, the north, the northeast. At the moment, soldiers are being killed every day and schools are being burned down because the monarchy, Aphisit and the Thai State are repressive and cunning. Aphisit put the good Thais in jails, chased patriot Thais out of Thailand with lese majeste law, punished Police Chief and high ranking policemen who simply carried out their duties. Aphisit is abusing his power and the longer he is in power the deeper the conflict. With Phumipon it is already this much, with Wachiralongkorn, it will be worsen. Thailand will be governed in a harsh authoritarian manner and people will revolt. It is not an opinion, this is the fact about how majority of Thai people feel about Wachiralongkorn. That’s why I suggest a referendum option or he goes to live in Europe. Wachiralongkorn himself also doesn’t like living in Thailand, he would like to live in Germany. I write in a straightforward manner because I mean well for him and for the country.
I genuinely would like to emphasize again here that Giles Ji’s father represent what a true Thai means. He is loved and really earned the respect of the entire country and I mean the entire country. The country is proud and respect Dr. Puey Unphakorn, they like his values, what he stood for, and what he had sacrificed and done for the country. This is the kind of leader majority of Thais prefer and desire to have. One cannot force respect, respect has to be earned.
Giles Ji Ungpakorn on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
I think Giles expects a bit too much from the future King – care about this, know about that.
They are all desirable qualities but they are not requirements.
It would become a problem if such “unqualified” king started messing with politics or the government, but it’s not supposed to happen. Just imagine the public backlash.
Thaksin on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
Tumbler,
yes, you are right. I talk about Thailand as is, with paperwork like constitutions serving mostly to keep up with Joneses. They are just inadequate to describe or regulate many aspects of power sharing.
David Brown,
It was straight from the constitution:
Military chain of command is clear but their allegiances aren’t. Earlier you completely excluded the King, I just pointed that he is the Head of State, not the elected government. In their heads I think the chain is people (nation), king, government.
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
StanG: Are you on the payroll of the Lao PDR? Because you write as if you are a bought and paid for propagandist for them. What did you expect the Sydney Morning Herald reporters to do? Get official permission to visit the camp where the deported Hmong are being held? What a laugh! Unless you show up unexpected and uninvited, you won’t be allowed to get any information whatsoever. That’s how Communist totalitarian regimes work! They were lucky to get the photos and details they were able to collect. Quite a coup in my opinion. The fact that they pissed off the guards is evidence enough that there are facts about the Hmong detention the LPDR doesn’t want you or the rest of the world to know.
Giles Ji Ungpakorn on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
WLH, you have a good point! By the way, it has not been decided yet if it would be Sirinthorn or Wachiralongkorn or a new presidential system altogether. The country is in transition with many serious problems that were kept under the rug for a long time. In my opinion, the inaccurate history of the Thai politics reflects major shortcomings on the issue of epistemology and integrity of the academics in the past. This incorrect Thai political history has serious implications to the regional security issue affecting every countries in the region. I spot your creativity and wit, so I wonder if I could request you to dwell on it and write some scholarly work on Siam. I hope you agree with my request because new blood is urgently needed in the studies of Thai politics.
Thaksin on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
“On November 8, 1947, army troops seized various government installations in Bangkok. The coup, led by Lieutenant General Phin Choonhavan and Colonel Luang Katsongkhram, ousted Luang Thamrong’s government. It marked the return to power of Phibun (Plaek Phibunsongkram). At the same time, armoured cars arrived in front of Pridi’s riverside residence. However, when the troops entered, they found that Pridi had already escaped. Pridi spent a week hiding with the Navy at Admiral Sindhu Songkhramchai’s headquarters. On November 20, the statesman was spirited out of the country by British and American agents to Singapore.”
Pridi Banomyong (wikipedia)
Thaksin on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
Back to Susie Wong at #51: Her comment that “Chatchai’s father, Phin Choonhavan took part in Boworadet rebellion against the 1932 Coup d’etat group.” I asked her about this, but she didn’t respond. As far as I can tell – happy to be corrected – this is not correct. It seems he was on the government side during the rebellion. Prior to 1932 he was posted to Korat, but it seems he’d moved after 1932. Any suggestions on references on the Boworadet rebellion, Thai or English?
The Allah dilemma in Malaysia
Greg,
I have now received a copy of the full judgement (thanks to an anonymous reader). Yes, I agree with you, Malaysia can and is internally strong enough to handle this affair. From legal aspect, it seems to me that the Malaysian lower courts are increasing their judiciary independence in these recent years — an observation from an outsider, that is.
Patani and Turkey: What’s the connection?
Perfect logic, Hla Oo. Otherwise we’d have wars of liberation and demands for statehood by all migrant communities wherever they settle, in competition with separatist indigenous minorities. I guess it’s just a couple of centuries too late for that sort of land grab. I’d say fight for your rights but there’s a line you just don’t cross.