nothing new as it claimed just a refelction of one new group of scholar is newly in this area of studies and maybe they have not seen a Thai publication released in 1990, State and Villlage in Thai Studies, which in fact is a colllection of Thai translation from English articles.
“Defying the King might not be covered in law books but the gravity of this kind of offense is indisputable”.
from#89
“Somsak, I don’t see how your anecdotes are immediately relevant.”
from #84 [my supposed ‘anecdotes’ are here ]
Not relevant? Are you stupid or what? The relevancy is: for you, action (of which there’s no direct evidence to start with) which is “not.. covered in law books” is “indisputably grave offense”, while actions in direct violation of the Constitution are just ‘anecdotes’ and ‘irrelevant’.
Anyone who could argue from such blatant disregard for logic and reason should not be listened to.
Nick – I also visited Indonesia a lot during that time.
One reason for Indonesia’s surprisingly good outcome was the charming moderate Islamic cleric Gus Dur, leader of the 40 million-strong Nahdatul Ulama, which acted as a bulwark against extremism of any kind.
Sadly Gus Dur recently departed, and even more sadly perhaps is that contemporary Thailand seems to have no equivalent.
At last we’re getting some sensible comment on the Rangers and 1,000 rifles issue.
I especially respect Nick’s assesment – as he’s the one bravely doing on-the-ground reporting, as free as humanly possible, free of government control.
It does seem to me much of the previous brave fine journalism by Thais has now taken cover – understandable given the now extremely high tension, and massive press intimidation going right back to Thaksin.
I asked Ji Ungkaporn, at the FCCT, about Rangers and those 1,000 rifles – he had no adequate reply.
Nick’s is the first I’ve seen.
Ralph – I’d be surprised if ANU did not have all print copies of Bangkok Post and Nation, ditto Canberra’s National Library.
Even Darwin Parliamentary Library subscribes to daily print editions of the Post. I sympathise with you that this can not be found on-line.
Did these people also protest against the double standards when Thaksin was in power that allowed him to get even more wealthy? If he comes back will they protest against him then? Is it possible he has started something he can’t put back into the bottle?
Somsak – @”Sarit overthrew an elected government”> I’ve always understood Sarit overthrew a rival military government.
Which “elected government’ was this, was it a civilian government, and how was it elected ?
I wish you understood the nature of both the US and the Burmese situation better than you think you do. Ne Win’s bogus socialism never bothered the US so long as he remained staunchly anti-communist despite being kept out of a sizable market to exploit. Unfortunately for the SPDC, it is simply politically untenable for Hillary Clinton or whoever might succeed her to let them completely off the hook for all their misdeeds and misrule known universally in the age of information technology. So engagement here is easier said than done unlike the Burmese regime’s neighbours and Russia who do not have to seize the moral high ground in any consistent manner. Besides engagement involves some degree of give and take, not all take on the part of the junta which characterises the current diplomatic impasse despite the Obama administration’s efforts at detente.
The famous campaign slogan of Hillary’s husband – ‘It’s the economy, stupid’ – does not hold water in this instance since the junta has a stranglehold on all economic activity with a miserable record of governance. This makes proper economic development and modernisation, and along with it the growth of a strong civil society able to bring about democratisation in say a few decades, a rather forlorn hope and practically wishful thinking in this particular part of the world.
Have no illusions that the US remains idle behind the scenes. It’s just not in the nature of the beast. Regime change may not be at the top of the agenda right now, but there’s always covert support of the opposition forces going hand in hand with diplomatic overtures. And these forces need only be democratic in name whilst there’s definitely no need to commit themselves to non-violence. We’ve had enough evidence of that to say the history of US foreign policy is nothing if not consistent.
Your point is correct that these institutions are not democratic in Malaysia. It is not democratic as it is nothing more than the arms and legs of UMNO.
We recognise that. However, non – violent but firm reforms can only take place if citizens and the international community put pressure – forcefully on the ruling party to correct this anomaly.
Nation reports it was Prem who called the meeting, citing an unnamed source.
Btw, Nick, several times I’ve seen references to reds cutting some trees to set up their stage (or the “double standards” village), also on Sunday Nation had a photo of them cutting through some fences in preparation for the rally. What was that all about? Doesn’t seem to fit with their concern for the natural park.
It is quite difficult trying to predict what may happen, especially in the longer term. There are of course worst case scenarios, and they cannot be completely discounted, even if at the present moment unlikely. Conflicts can go out of hand, but must not necessarily. We’ll have to continue watching the developments.
Both the Red and the Yellow side have already since last year increasingly talked about “civil war”. However there are of course different shades possible, all from disturbances to all out anarchy.
During the late 90’s i was also convinced that Indonesia is going to break up, but they have managed amazingly well to get over the changes. Lets wait and see how Thailand does.
“alibaba”:
So far the Dahan Praan of Region 4 – the South – have nothing to do with the situation. The Dahan Praan now involved in the Red Shirts are mostly retired Dahan Praan from the former Pak Thong Chai barracks, veterans from the many skirmishes at the Cambodian and Laotian borders. They associated with a “look nong” of Sae Daeng. We don’t exactly know yet the numbers, conservative estimates are about 100 to 200, but could possibly be more.
Two recent events show the seriousness of the situation. “Sae Daeng” has been fired from the military but his reaction was fierce, saying now that he is a “civilian”, he is free to launch a guerrilla war. We all know he is in control of some Tahan Pran (Army-trained Rangers, notorious for their actions in the South). He is scheduled to speak tonight (14 Jan) on MVTV5. His more dreaded buddy Panlop is still quiet in words but does not mean he is idle.
Second event is Mark’s unannounced meeting with Prem. Clearly this handsome but half-baked Oxford-educated boy is now at a loss on how to handle the situation so he decided to see the most senior pooyai-backer. So keep on tuning in guys, you will see some nice fireworks before 26 Feb. Nick, keep up the good works, take more vitamins before going into action !
John can put any perspective he wants on this issue. The fact is that repatriation went smoothly and there is no political persecution, the only legitimate reason for Hmong to flee the country.
[…] Shirts at Surayud’s holiday paradise January 13th, 2010 by Nick Nostitz, р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕бр╕▓ – New Mandala р╣Бр╕Ыр╕ер╣Бр╕ер╕░р╣Ар╕гр╕╡р╕вр╕Ър╣Ар╕гр╕╡р╕вр╕З – р╣Бр╕Кр╕Юр╣Ар╕Хр╕нр╕гр╣М […]
I don’t disagree with you Nick. My point is that this was one of the post-coup justifications for the putsch. The statement was that the coup was to prevent violence that would occur when PAD were allegedly going to rally on the 20th. Chris Beale says that there were pre-coup reports of armed rangers. I am unable to locate any such reports (which is not the same as saying there weren’t any). This pending violence claim is only important in the context of justifying the coup. My interest is academic. StanG’s comments and CB’s earlier comments suggest that the anti-Thaksin side consider this a real story and threat, so I think it does warrant some consideration.
In my opinion, it would be interesting to get some coverage of Nattawut Saikua, the guy seen boxing below. He is a young new face in Thai politics and seems to be the star speaker adored by many of the redshirts, even having many “fanclubs” nationwide.
While there is growing tendency of political heredity, as Banharn, Sanan and other political heavyweights try to pass their positions over to their sons, others who have a good chance to be in a leading role in the next decade should not be overlooked.
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Tai Lands and Thailand
nothing new as it claimed just a refelction of one new group of scholar is newly in this area of studies and maybe they have not seen a Thai publication released in 1990, State and Villlage in Thai Studies, which in fact is a colllection of Thai translation from English articles.
Thaksin on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
“Defying the King might not be covered in law books but the gravity of this kind of offense is indisputable”.
from#89
“Somsak, I don’t see how your anecdotes are immediately relevant.”
from #84 [my supposed ‘anecdotes’ are here ]
Not relevant? Are you stupid or what? The relevancy is: for you, action (of which there’s no direct evidence to start with) which is “not.. covered in law books” is “indisputably grave offense”, while actions in direct violation of the Constitution are just ‘anecdotes’ and ‘irrelevant’.
Anyone who could argue from such blatant disregard for logic and reason should not be listened to.
Interviews with Nick Nostitz
Nick – I also visited Indonesia a lot during that time.
One reason for Indonesia’s surprisingly good outcome was the charming moderate Islamic cleric Gus Dur, leader of the 40 million-strong Nahdatul Ulama, which acted as a bulwark against extremism of any kind.
Sadly Gus Dur recently departed, and even more sadly perhaps is that contemporary Thailand seems to have no equivalent.
Thaksin on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
At last we’re getting some sensible comment on the Rangers and 1,000 rifles issue.
I especially respect Nick’s assesment – as he’s the one bravely doing on-the-ground reporting, as free as humanly possible, free of government control.
It does seem to me much of the previous brave fine journalism by Thais has now taken cover – understandable given the now extremely high tension, and massive press intimidation going right back to Thaksin.
I asked Ji Ungkaporn, at the FCCT, about Rangers and those 1,000 rifles – he had no adequate reply.
Nick’s is the first I’ve seen.
Ralph – I’d be surprised if ANU did not have all print copies of Bangkok Post and Nation, ditto Canberra’s National Library.
Even Darwin Parliamentary Library subscribes to daily print editions of the Post. I sympathise with you that this can not be found on-line.
Red Shirts at Surayud’s holiday paradise
Did these people also protest against the double standards when Thaksin was in power that allowed him to get even more wealthy? If he comes back will they protest against him then? Is it possible he has started something he can’t put back into the bottle?
Thaksin on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
Somsak – @”Sarit overthrew an elected government”> I’ve always understood Sarit overthrew a rival military government.
Which “elected government’ was this, was it a civilian government, and how was it elected ?
Selth on Burmese missiles
Susie Wong,
I wish you understood the nature of both the US and the Burmese situation better than you think you do. Ne Win’s bogus socialism never bothered the US so long as he remained staunchly anti-communist despite being kept out of a sizable market to exploit. Unfortunately for the SPDC, it is simply politically untenable for Hillary Clinton or whoever might succeed her to let them completely off the hook for all their misdeeds and misrule known universally in the age of information technology. So engagement here is easier said than done unlike the Burmese regime’s neighbours and Russia who do not have to seize the moral high ground in any consistent manner. Besides engagement involves some degree of give and take, not all take on the part of the junta which characterises the current diplomatic impasse despite the Obama administration’s efforts at detente.
The famous campaign slogan of Hillary’s husband – ‘It’s the economy, stupid’ – does not hold water in this instance since the junta has a stranglehold on all economic activity with a miserable record of governance. This makes proper economic development and modernisation, and along with it the growth of a strong civil society able to bring about democratisation in say a few decades, a rather forlorn hope and practically wishful thinking in this particular part of the world.
Have no illusions that the US remains idle behind the scenes. It’s just not in the nature of the beast. Regime change may not be at the top of the agenda right now, but there’s always covert support of the opposition forces going hand in hand with diplomatic overtures. And these forces need only be democratic in name whilst there’s definitely no need to commit themselves to non-violence. We’ve had enough evidence of that to say the history of US foreign policy is nothing if not consistent.
Malaysia, the year that was!
Dear HC,
Your point is correct that these institutions are not democratic in Malaysia. It is not democratic as it is nothing more than the arms and legs of UMNO.
We recognise that. However, non – violent but firm reforms can only take place if citizens and the international community put pressure – forcefully on the ruling party to correct this anomaly.
Interviews with Nick Nostitz
Nation reports it was Prem who called the meeting, citing an unnamed source.
Btw, Nick, several times I’ve seen references to reds cutting some trees to set up their stage (or the “double standards” village), also on Sunday Nation had a photo of them cutting through some fences in preparation for the rally. What was that all about? Doesn’t seem to fit with their concern for the natural park.
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
I see no reason to doubt reports from Laos that the repatriation has been settled satisfactory and no one was jailed or tortured.
Absence of political persecution in this case is not a matter of opinion, it’s either exists or not.
Or there’s a massive government cover up, for conspiracy minded folks.
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
My way or the highway! How unoriginal…
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
There is no political persecution now, and that’s the only thing that matters.
Red Shirts at Surayud’s holiday paradise
“tukkae”
Yes, they are different. The one is called “Grandmother Thieng Mountain”, and the other “Big Mountain”, i believe, if i got the tones right.
Interviews with Nick Nostitz
“Chris Beale”:
It is quite difficult trying to predict what may happen, especially in the longer term. There are of course worst case scenarios, and they cannot be completely discounted, even if at the present moment unlikely. Conflicts can go out of hand, but must not necessarily. We’ll have to continue watching the developments.
Both the Red and the Yellow side have already since last year increasingly talked about “civil war”. However there are of course different shades possible, all from disturbances to all out anarchy.
During the late 90’s i was also convinced that Indonesia is going to break up, but they have managed amazingly well to get over the changes. Lets wait and see how Thailand does.
“alibaba”:
So far the Dahan Praan of Region 4 – the South – have nothing to do with the situation. The Dahan Praan now involved in the Red Shirts are mostly retired Dahan Praan from the former Pak Thong Chai barracks, veterans from the many skirmishes at the Cambodian and Laotian borders. They associated with a “look nong” of Sae Daeng. We don’t exactly know yet the numbers, conservative estimates are about 100 to 200, but could possibly be more.
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
A brief question, StanG: where did you get any idea there was no political persecution? Did the Hmong tell you this? Or is it another inference?
Interviews with Nick Nostitz
Two recent events show the seriousness of the situation. “Sae Daeng” has been fired from the military but his reaction was fierce, saying now that he is a “civilian”, he is free to launch a guerrilla war. We all know he is in control of some Tahan Pran (Army-trained Rangers, notorious for their actions in the South). He is scheduled to speak tonight (14 Jan) on MVTV5. His more dreaded buddy Panlop is still quiet in words but does not mean he is idle.
Second event is Mark’s unannounced meeting with Prem. Clearly this handsome but half-baked Oxford-educated boy is now at a loss on how to handle the situation so he decided to see the most senior pooyai-backer. So keep on tuning in guys, you will see some nice fireworks before 26 Feb. Nick, keep up the good works, take more vitamins before going into action !
Abhisit’s definition of voluntary
John can put any perspective he wants on this issue. The fact is that repatriation went smoothly and there is no political persecution, the only legitimate reason for Hmong to flee the country.
Red Shirts at Surayud’s holiday paradise
[…] Shirts at Surayud’s holiday paradise January 13th, 2010 by Nick Nostitz, р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕бр╕▓ – New Mandala р╣Бр╕Ыр╕ер╣Бр╕ер╕░р╣Ар╕гр╕╡р╕вр╕Ър╣Ар╕гр╕╡р╕вр╕З – р╣Бр╕Кр╕Юр╣Ар╕Хр╕нр╕гр╣М […]
Thaksin on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
I don’t disagree with you Nick. My point is that this was one of the post-coup justifications for the putsch. The statement was that the coup was to prevent violence that would occur when PAD were allegedly going to rally on the 20th. Chris Beale says that there were pre-coup reports of armed rangers. I am unable to locate any such reports (which is not the same as saying there weren’t any). This pending violence claim is only important in the context of justifying the coup. My interest is academic. StanG’s comments and CB’s earlier comments suggest that the anti-Thaksin side consider this a real story and threat, so I think it does warrant some consideration.
Focus on Thai Politics
In my opinion, it would be interesting to get some coverage of Nattawut Saikua, the guy seen boxing below. He is a young new face in Thai politics and seems to be the star speaker adored by many of the redshirts, even having many “fanclubs” nationwide.
While there is growing tendency of political heredity, as Banharn, Sanan and other political heavyweights try to pass their positions over to their sons, others who have a good chance to be in a leading role in the next decade should not be overlooked.