Ralph, you can google up for info about Gedney. Craig J. Reynolds did introduction on his work as well. Also, read Kukrit Pramoj’s critique on Gedney’s work as a hoax. Kukrit was great great grandson of Rama 1. You can also ask Suluk Sivalaksa about him, they were acquainted with each other. After all these homeworks, you then can ask me again. It is difficult to discuss the matter when another person’s head is empty. I mean because Gedney played both sides so without research and analysis you won’t be able to understand my explanation. So I prefer you to do some homework first.
A quick search on Youtube doesn’t come up empty. Just curious whether the site is still blocked in Thailand? Or the (not-so) great firewall has crumbled.
I think Greg Lopez is right. When I lived in Indonesia in 1959-1960 they were upset that Malaysia decided to use an old folk tune, Terang Bulan, for its national anthem, with substituted words. Malaysia was regarded as a neocolonial construct and Indonesians generally have been a bit envious of Malaysia’s success economically and even politically. The thought of Malaysian entrepreneurs moving in on Indonesian resources must rankle.
Indeed, we suffer from the same problem in America. For example, take a look at this comic book cover from 1938. It shows a Kryptonian man lifting a car above his head, when it is a well-known fact that super-strength, as well as, heat-vision, x-ray vision, and super-speed weren’t available to superheroes until after World War 2.
Wheels within wheels, Susie, wheels within wheels.
Naing Ko Shwe Than: Sorry, but you sound like the mouthpiece of some idealistic nitwit. The readers of the Myanmar Times (which are primarily well-off people in Yangon) know very well the hardships other people living in their country face. Writing about poverty all the time, as well as never seeing daylight because the censors would cut it, would get very boring and depressing for readers. Give people a break; don’t constantly smack them across the face with tales of suffering.
In any case, if the stories in the paper aren’t well written, it has nothing to do with management of the paper and everything to do with the reporters’ capabilities, which says a lot about critical thinking and work ethic of supposedly some of Myanmar’s brightest young minds.
The Myanmar Times is a mouthpiece of the government, it just has to abide by censorship rules. And perhaps more important than the news it provides, it gives young Burmese people the opportunity to learn valuable skills in what is a much more developed and transparent business than most in Myanmar.
There is a cannon at the entry to the Nat’l Museum in Bangkok, and it has the caption; Cannon, foreign style, Bangkok period (samai rattanakosin). What this means is that time and space are configured in national terms (things are either Thai or foreign), and that dynasties are the lords of time and space and their proper coordinates. I’m reminded of the cannon as I get drilled in the correct dates for R5, R6, and R7. And to be told that the depiction of the guy about-to-execute-his-father is not properly Nonthaburi-like is a hoot. The ghost (Ee Nak) has something of a farang face. Is that inauthentic for a Thai ghost? I’ve witnessed a Thai ethnographer order people to change their clothes and the tools they use, so that they could be photographed in their ethnic representativeness. If an image matches our expectation of the thing represented, it is not a guarantee of authenticity.
1. The historical date of the reign of Rama 5 (1853 – 1910)was incorrect. The correct date should be Rama 4 ( 1851- 1868) and Rama 5 (1868-1910).
2. In the early 1860s, Anna Leonowens, school teacher to Rama5 (1868-1910), recorded that Rama 5 was still without shoes or shirt as yet when he danced with her. Because of this fact, the musical “the King and I” is still prohibited to show in Thailand up till now. Lamtat is a performance for lower class Thais. The period (1925-1935) was Rama7, the elites began to dress western and access to weapons, however, not ordinary people.
3. Nonthaburi province is the area of Mon ethnic, they do not wear head band. The man doesn’t look Thai at all. Furthermore, Thai people (whatever ethnics or religions) respect their father highly, the story of killing a father during that period (still primitive era) was impossible.
4. With the request of Rama 4, the French Catholic priests developed the written Thai language based on Bali and Sansakrit (Indian). Both Phumipon and Sirikit studied at Catholic schools during their early age. We can ask those Catholic schools for comparison of the materials. William Gedney, a Thai linguist, learned Bali and Sansakrit as well. Gedney had the technique of how to make something looked antique, fluent in the language, and involved in politics, for those reasons, I would like a scientific proof of the originality of those works.
5. Many things were wrong and inaccurate about Thai political history. As a research institute and a specialized university, I expect truth to be important. So far Thai political history is based on inaccurate information. Analysis based on lies is simply useless, especially when the stake is about power and influence in the Asia Pacific Region.
Unfortunately we don’t have these rare Lamtat booklets in the Thai collection at the NLA. Sorry no sample of the text is available. These images were reproduced from one of Anake Nawigamune books: Pha╠Дp tha╠Дi l├ж singphim / Ane╠Дk Na╠Дwikkamu╠Дn (р╕ар╕▓р╕Юр╕Цр╣Ир╕▓р╕вр╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕кр╕┤р╣Ир╕Зр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣М)
Chris, thanks I’ve never been to the museum but next time when I am in Thailand I will make sure his museum is on top of my ‘must do’ list, Saowapha.
Why Sabah and Sarawak were added to Federated Malaya?
“…It is instructive to note that Sabah and Sarawak were admitted into Malaysia as a way to increase the ethnic composition of bumiputera: Malays and indigenous peoples…”
It is indeed sad of what has become of Sabah and Sarawak.
‘Secondly, to tie a boy in a post is certainly not a Thai culture.’ Ummm, Susie, that’s the standard execution procedure. Very ‘Thai culture.’
Anake has got piles of illustrations in this style. Go and look at his museum. I don’t think Gedney can have made all of them. Not quite all.
I can remember watching lamtat at wat fairs around 20 years ago. Probably still happens.
Although it ‘came from Malaysia’ in R5, it’s only a slight adaptation of an old Thai tradition of counterpoint singing. The ‘Malay’ addition was just a new element to make it fresh and exotic, like playing Mae Nak as Broadway.
Susie: too much conspiracy theory for me. These are from the 1920s, not the 1940s. Plenty of this material about. Rifles introduced in WW2? Are you serious? Look at photos of the Thai army before 1932. Maybe it was the Portuguese who introduced muskets but these were smooth bores and a rifle refers to rifled barrels. These date to the 15th century but more reasonably to the late 18th century. They were in Asia soon after and were available in Siam.
Sante Asoke do not know what they are doing as well as the Buddhist nations of Cambodia and Thailand. All belong to the land, Nature no Buddhist can claim ownership and control over territory outside racist nationalist discourses. My country, my king, my culture, my religion!!!! Face and ego. As Buddhadasa taught there is no me or mine. Thais, especially PAD, are deluded and are destroying the image and prestige of Religion and thus should all be put in jail at least
I have issues that I would like to share to solicit ideas and analysis in order to shed light and to deter the situation that could lead to war.
1. The leader that led the group to this brinkmanship, is Mr. Veera Somkwamkid (you can see his photo in one of Saedangworld video in YouTube taken earlier many months ago). He is a Chinese ethnic Thai, and the group supporting him also mainly are Chinese ethnic Thais who were high ranking soldiers keeping border patrol in the Mekong river areas bordering Laos and Kampuchea. The foot soldiers of the group are non-Chinese ethnic Thais. The problem is during the height of the Cold War period, the U.S. decided to adopt the “Thailandization”, similar technique to the “Vietnamization” in Vietnam or “Finlandization” in Finland. As a result, these Chinese Thais do not know the real history about themselves and the history of the mainland Southeast Asia. They believe that if they follow the ideology of “nation, religion, monarchy” they can do anything and no one will dare to touch them. This ideology was given by the U.S. during the Cold War in order to fight the Communism. In the past, the U.S. adopted the policy of concentration the power to Phumipon (at the time the U.S. didn’t know the truth about what is now known). Over time, there is no balance of power structure in Thailand, the network monarchy power is the only dominant power. So claiming “nation, religion, monarchy” the PAD was able to close the international airports, and now move to the brinkmanship with Kampuchea, and no one dare to touch them.
2. There were 1,000 people from Srisa-Asoke residents in Sisaket Province (border Kampuchea), the core base of Mr. Veera Somkwamkid going for the brinkmanship with Kampuchea. Srisa-Asoke is one of Chamlong Srimuang’s Santi-Asoke Buddhist Temple for supplying logistics for Chamlong political movement. These Santi-Asoke Buddhist monks were the core logistics for PAD in closing down the international airports in Bangkok and Phuket. Now again using to cause territorial conflicts with Kampuchea. There are no scholars analyzing the connection of domestic politics to international territorial disputes as yet. More importantly, Chamlong Srimuang (also a Chinese ethnic Thai, trained in the U.S. during the Cold War, also Prem’s secretary earlier) has been the main instrument in destroying those who pro the U.S. since Sarit to Thaksin, yet there were no analysis about Chamlong and Santi-Asoke Buddhist movement from this angle. My worry is Santi-Asoke, a political movement, has strategic ramification, yet no scholars has watched this closely.
3. There are four major Great Powers players in mainland Southeast Asia. The PAD movement does not benefit either the U.S. nor China. I am worry because the capabilities gap is huge and the situation is grave.
Mega-projects will allow the government to continue the wage increases of the civil servants salaries, provides foreign currency and stabilizes the macro-economic environment, which in turn attracts foreign investment. Furthermore it will allow the government to keep on spending on infrastructure
‘Even though private investment has achieved a significant increase over the past three years, several constraints are still hindering private sector development. These constraints are related, in particular, to the lack of good road and power infrastructure at the provincial level’
Lao People’s Democratic Republic: Poverty Reduction Strategy Paper 2008
How could we prove that those pictures were original? William Gedney, an American who studied Thai language wrote in one of his articles that he had produced many fake old pictures on Thailand. He said he learned the techniques when he served the CIA as a Thai translator. This technique was later transferred to others. Secondly, to tie a boy in a post is certainly not a Thai culture. Lastly, common Thai women do not carry rifle during those periods. It was record that the British soldier Mr. Thompson was the first person who brought/introduced rifle to Thailand during the liberation of Siam from Japan.
I think history is important. It also must be based on fact. It is troubling for me to see an attempt to distort facts.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
ASEAN fragility and Indonesia-Malaysia tensions
Surely the historical roots of this enmity lie in Sukarno’s Konfrontasi policy and the good old days of Crush Malaysia?
Which was all very political, I think you’d agree.
Even more Thai ephemera
Ralph, you can google up for info about Gedney. Craig J. Reynolds did introduction on his work as well. Also, read Kukrit Pramoj’s critique on Gedney’s work as a hoax. Kukrit was great great grandson of Rama 1. You can also ask Suluk Sivalaksa about him, they were acquainted with each other. After all these homeworks, you then can ask me again. It is difficult to discuss the matter when another person’s head is empty. I mean because Gedney played both sides so without research and analysis you won’t be able to understand my explanation. So I prefer you to do some homework first.
Another taboo broken
OK bystander. I’m ready for the next clue. Will be interested in figuring out what you are talking about.
Another taboo broken
A quick search on Youtube doesn’t come up empty. Just curious whether the site is still blocked in Thailand? Or the (not-so) great firewall has crumbled.
ASEAN fragility and Indonesia-Malaysia tensions
I think Greg Lopez is right. When I lived in Indonesia in 1959-1960 they were upset that Malaysia decided to use an old folk tune, Terang Bulan, for its national anthem, with substituted words. Malaysia was regarded as a neocolonial construct and Indonesians generally have been a bit envious of Malaysia’s success economically and even politically. The thought of Malaysian entrepreneurs moving in on Indonesian resources must rankle.
From the archives: Bhumibol and Thailand in 1950
Life magazine photos are great too.
Even more Thai ephemera
re: Susie Wong
Indeed, we suffer from the same problem in America. For example, take a look at this comic book cover from 1938. It shows a Kryptonian man lifting a car above his head, when it is a well-known fact that super-strength, as well as, heat-vision, x-ray vision, and super-speed weren’t available to superheroes until after World War 2.
Wheels within wheels, Susie, wheels within wheels.
Job at The Myanmar Times
Naing Ko Shwe Than: Sorry, but you sound like the mouthpiece of some idealistic nitwit. The readers of the Myanmar Times (which are primarily well-off people in Yangon) know very well the hardships other people living in their country face. Writing about poverty all the time, as well as never seeing daylight because the censors would cut it, would get very boring and depressing for readers. Give people a break; don’t constantly smack them across the face with tales of suffering.
In any case, if the stories in the paper aren’t well written, it has nothing to do with management of the paper and everything to do with the reporters’ capabilities, which says a lot about critical thinking and work ethic of supposedly some of Myanmar’s brightest young minds.
The Myanmar Times is a mouthpiece of the government, it just has to abide by censorship rules. And perhaps more important than the news it provides, it gives young Burmese people the opportunity to learn valuable skills in what is a much more developed and transparent business than most in Myanmar.
Even more Thai ephemera
There is a cannon at the entry to the Nat’l Museum in Bangkok, and it has the caption; Cannon, foreign style, Bangkok period (samai rattanakosin). What this means is that time and space are configured in national terms (things are either Thai or foreign), and that dynasties are the lords of time and space and their proper coordinates. I’m reminded of the cannon as I get drilled in the correct dates for R5, R6, and R7. And to be told that the depiction of the guy about-to-execute-his-father is not properly Nonthaburi-like is a hoot. The ghost (Ee Nak) has something of a farang face. Is that inauthentic for a Thai ghost? I’ve witnessed a Thai ethnographer order people to change their clothes and the tools they use, so that they could be photographed in their ethnic representativeness. If an image matches our expectation of the thing represented, it is not a guarantee of authenticity.
From the archives: Bhumibol and Thailand in 1950
Absolutely Bangkok had the same mention over a year ago:
http://absolutelybangkok.com/1950-king-bhumibols-garden-of-smiles/
Time Magazine’s archive seems to be a treasure trove. Here’s more – about the shooting of a, well, in parliament:
http://absolutelybangkok.com/time-archive-the-art-of-titillation/
Even more Thai ephemera
SUsie: you claim to like facts. So give us some. What is the scientific facts you have on Gedney? Give us details and the sources.
Even more Thai ephemera
1. The historical date of the reign of Rama 5 (1853 – 1910)was incorrect. The correct date should be Rama 4 ( 1851- 1868) and Rama 5 (1868-1910).
2. In the early 1860s, Anna Leonowens, school teacher to Rama5 (1868-1910), recorded that Rama 5 was still without shoes or shirt as yet when he danced with her. Because of this fact, the musical “the King and I” is still prohibited to show in Thailand up till now. Lamtat is a performance for lower class Thais. The period (1925-1935) was Rama7, the elites began to dress western and access to weapons, however, not ordinary people.
3. Nonthaburi province is the area of Mon ethnic, they do not wear head band. The man doesn’t look Thai at all. Furthermore, Thai people (whatever ethnics or religions) respect their father highly, the story of killing a father during that period (still primitive era) was impossible.
4. With the request of Rama 4, the French Catholic priests developed the written Thai language based on Bali and Sansakrit (Indian). Both Phumipon and Sirikit studied at Catholic schools during their early age. We can ask those Catholic schools for comparison of the materials. William Gedney, a Thai linguist, learned Bali and Sansakrit as well. Gedney had the technique of how to make something looked antique, fluent in the language, and involved in politics, for those reasons, I would like a scientific proof of the originality of those works.
5. Many things were wrong and inaccurate about Thai political history. As a research institute and a specialized university, I expect truth to be important. So far Thai political history is based on inaccurate information. Analysis based on lies is simply useless, especially when the stake is about power and influence in the Asia Pacific Region.
Even more Thai ephemera
Unfortunately we don’t have these rare Lamtat booklets in the Thai collection at the NLA. Sorry no sample of the text is available. These images were reproduced from one of Anake Nawigamune books: Pha╠Дp tha╠Дi l├ж singphim / Ane╠Дk Na╠Дwikkamu╠Дn (р╕ар╕▓р╕Юр╕Цр╣Ир╕▓р╕вр╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕кр╕┤р╣Ир╕Зр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣М)
Chris, thanks I’ve never been to the museum but next time when I am in Thailand I will make sure his museum is on top of my ‘must do’ list, Saowapha.
Malaysia Day?
An interesting point I’d like to add:
Why Sabah and Sarawak were added to Federated Malaya?
“…It is instructive to note that Sabah and Sarawak were admitted into Malaysia as a way to increase the ethnic composition of bumiputera: Malays and indigenous peoples…”
It is indeed sad of what has become of Sabah and Sarawak.
Even more Thai ephemera
‘Secondly, to tie a boy in a post is certainly not a Thai culture.’ Ummm, Susie, that’s the standard execution procedure. Very ‘Thai culture.’
Anake has got piles of illustrations in this style. Go and look at his museum. I don’t think Gedney can have made all of them. Not quite all.
I can remember watching lamtat at wat fairs around 20 years ago. Probably still happens.
Although it ‘came from Malaysia’ in R5, it’s only a slight adaptation of an old Thai tradition of counterpoint singing. The ‘Malay’ addition was just a new element to make it fresh and exotic, like playing Mae Nak as Broadway.
Nice post.
Even more Thai ephemera
Susie: too much conspiracy theory for me. These are from the 1920s, not the 1940s. Plenty of this material about. Rifles introduced in WW2? Are you serious? Look at photos of the Thai army before 1932. Maybe it was the Portuguese who introduced muskets but these were smooth bores and a rifle refers to rifled barrels. These date to the 15th century but more reasonably to the late 18th century. They were in Asia soon after and were available in Siam.
Sovereignty and brinksmanship
Sante Asoke do not know what they are doing as well as the Buddhist nations of Cambodia and Thailand. All belong to the land, Nature no Buddhist can claim ownership and control over territory outside racist nationalist discourses. My country, my king, my culture, my religion!!!! Face and ego. As Buddhadasa taught there is no me or mine. Thais, especially PAD, are deluded and are destroying the image and prestige of Religion and thus should all be put in jail at least
Sovereignty and brinksmanship
I have issues that I would like to share to solicit ideas and analysis in order to shed light and to deter the situation that could lead to war.
1. The leader that led the group to this brinkmanship, is Mr. Veera Somkwamkid (you can see his photo in one of Saedangworld video in YouTube taken earlier many months ago). He is a Chinese ethnic Thai, and the group supporting him also mainly are Chinese ethnic Thais who were high ranking soldiers keeping border patrol in the Mekong river areas bordering Laos and Kampuchea. The foot soldiers of the group are non-Chinese ethnic Thais. The problem is during the height of the Cold War period, the U.S. decided to adopt the “Thailandization”, similar technique to the “Vietnamization” in Vietnam or “Finlandization” in Finland. As a result, these Chinese Thais do not know the real history about themselves and the history of the mainland Southeast Asia. They believe that if they follow the ideology of “nation, religion, monarchy” they can do anything and no one will dare to touch them. This ideology was given by the U.S. during the Cold War in order to fight the Communism. In the past, the U.S. adopted the policy of concentration the power to Phumipon (at the time the U.S. didn’t know the truth about what is now known). Over time, there is no balance of power structure in Thailand, the network monarchy power is the only dominant power. So claiming “nation, religion, monarchy” the PAD was able to close the international airports, and now move to the brinkmanship with Kampuchea, and no one dare to touch them.
2. There were 1,000 people from Srisa-Asoke residents in Sisaket Province (border Kampuchea), the core base of Mr. Veera Somkwamkid going for the brinkmanship with Kampuchea. Srisa-Asoke is one of Chamlong Srimuang’s Santi-Asoke Buddhist Temple for supplying logistics for Chamlong political movement. These Santi-Asoke Buddhist monks were the core logistics for PAD in closing down the international airports in Bangkok and Phuket. Now again using to cause territorial conflicts with Kampuchea. There are no scholars analyzing the connection of domestic politics to international territorial disputes as yet. More importantly, Chamlong Srimuang (also a Chinese ethnic Thai, trained in the U.S. during the Cold War, also Prem’s secretary earlier) has been the main instrument in destroying those who pro the U.S. since Sarit to Thaksin, yet there were no analysis about Chamlong and Santi-Asoke Buddhist movement from this angle. My worry is Santi-Asoke, a political movement, has strategic ramification, yet no scholars has watched this closely.
3. There are four major Great Powers players in mainland Southeast Asia. The PAD movement does not benefit either the U.S. nor China. I am worry because the capabilities gap is huge and the situation is grave.
Mega projects and Lao transitions
Mega-projects will allow the government to continue the wage increases of the civil servants salaries, provides foreign currency and stabilizes the macro-economic environment, which in turn attracts foreign investment. Furthermore it will allow the government to keep on spending on infrastructure
‘Even though private investment has achieved a significant increase over the past three years, several constraints are still hindering private sector development. These constraints are related, in particular, to the lack of good road and power infrastructure at the provincial level’
Lao People’s Democratic Republic: Poverty Reduction Strategy Paper 2008
Even more Thai ephemera
How could we prove that those pictures were original? William Gedney, an American who studied Thai language wrote in one of his articles that he had produced many fake old pictures on Thailand. He said he learned the techniques when he served the CIA as a Thai translator. This technique was later transferred to others. Secondly, to tie a boy in a post is certainly not a Thai culture. Lastly, common Thai women do not carry rifle during those periods. It was record that the British soldier Mr. Thompson was the first person who brought/introduced rifle to Thailand during the liberation of Siam from Japan.
I think history is important. It also must be based on fact. It is troubling for me to see an attempt to distort facts.